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[Addai]

analogwatch wrote...

elenilote wrote...
Sexual abuse does not need to take the form of actual rape.

You are absolutely 100% correct, and I really should've elaborated upon that in the post. I don't think Danarius was outright raping him (as I said) but I do think there was some degree of sexual humiliation of some sort going on, I absolutely do. Why else would Fenris be so reluctant with Hawke at first? ("Another evening, perhaps." when Hawke propositions him the first time.)

Ugh... I should just stay away from this topic... but, I think there are plenty of reasons why he'd be reluctant to start a love affair and it makes more sense to see him keeping his distance because he's feeling an attraction/ closeness to Hawke than that he's reacting to some sexual PTSD.  Otherwise, y'know, Isabela...?

[Eirnae]

ejoslin wrote...

The LI chats are bugged. I've triggered Fenris' via console, and ended up with him starting talking about Fenris and switching to Isabela halfway through.

I wonder what the upcoming patch really is going to address. If it doesn't address dialog bugs, I hope they release a toolset :/

I truly hope that they do patch that mess, partly because the console and I have a wary relationship.  I prod it once in a great while, then make a flurry of apologies and beg it to not turn my Hawke (or Fen) into a nug (or something equally terrifying).

With that said, I've been under the impression that there's a lot lurking under the current game's surface that I've yet to experience.  Perhaps future patches will bring those elements out.  Or DLC.  Or maybe both.  Yes, let's go with both.  *hopeful puppy eyes*

@phyreblade74
Personally, I was shocked to not see a yellow puddle under Danarius when Fenris defied him.  That would have been so messily poetic.  

[ejoslin]

Fenris is traumatized. He is the very definition of traumatized. Years of abuse of all kinds do leave their marks on people, and not everyone reacts to various things the way you think they should. If sex were part of his duties, that doesn't mean that his sexual life for the rest of his life will be filled with angst. Anyone can react to horrible situations in a different ways.

One thing he asks Orana, who strikes me as a child, is if they touched her. This obviously is not a foreign concept to him, and at least with Hadriana, it's something he thinks may happen. Again, that doesn't mean it happened to HIM, but then again, it does point to the general depravity of what happens to slaves in Tevinter.

[Cutlasskiwi]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Tealsie wrote...

Shail666 wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
Maybe not all Hawkes would want to settle down, but mine certainly would want to. She spent most of her life hiding and running, and finally thought she might find a home in Kirkwall when fame and fortune ruined that and cost her everything. She's probably seriously considering taking up farming.

Fenris seemed keen on finding a place to call home as well, but I don't know whether or not he just likes the idea in theory.

Someone should write this. I have a thing for fiction that shows characters just living the life.  I could totally see my Hawke be a farmer too. I think they'd both just sleep with a knife under their pillows.

Fenris would be the deadliest farmer ever.
...and now my mind has strayed towards imagining a cowboy!Fenris.  wearing the hat, leaned up against a wall, one hand in a pocket/resting on his hip, a piece of wheat/grass stuck out of his mouth...

I....I want to see someone draw that soooo badly now....

...I second that!

[elenilote]

ejoslin wrote...

Fenris is traumatized. He is the very definition of traumatized. Years of abuse of all kinds do leave their marks on people, and not everyone reacts to various things the way you think they should. If sex were part of his duties, that doesn't mean that his sexual life for the rest of his life will be filled with angst. Anyone can react to horrible situations in a different ways.

One thing he asks Orana, who strikes me as a child, is if they touched her. This obviously is not a foreign concept to him, and at least with Hadriana, it's something he thinks may happen. Again, that doesn't mean it happened to HIM, but then again, it does point to the general depravity of what happens to slaves in Tevinter.

Yes, I can see this being the case. How horrible it must have been!

[Addai]

Ryzaki wrote...
Despite that though Varric does ask him what does he do in that house all alone. And his codex itself mentions he knows very few people. And something about mercenary jobs. I have to refind it. 

That said yes theydo meet at the Hanged Man every week. So yes he's not in the house all by himself. Doesn't stop him from knowing very few people outside their little group. (Like Merrill I suspect but she at least is probably trying to isolate herself due to the dangers of the mirror). They know each other because  they fight with each other and bicker and bond because they all are the merry band of misfits. 

Yeah Varric is trying to get him to take a job, and a few of them try to get him to move out of the haunted mansion.  He tells them he prefers being a "ghost" in Kirkwall.  I don't imagine he's hosting parties in there.  But, I also don't get the sense he requires a lot of company.

Modifié par Addai67, 31 mars 2011 - 09:50 .

[Heidenreich]

This is why I like the Friendmance more then the Rivalmance. The Friendmance shows just how broken he really is. He just wanted to feel loved, to be happy and be able to love her back. The feelings are there, but when it came down to it, those feelings brought forth memories that he couldn't handle, even if only an instants worth of said memories.

Not nessiarly bad memories, but perhaps good ones. Ones of his mother and sister, of who he was before losing his memory.

Its his love for hawke that scares him far more then anything, and he's not sure what to do with it. So he runs away. They don't speak of it, because he's not ready and she, being his friend, knows this. Yet its a raw hurt because she loves him too. So he devotes himself to her in non-relationship/non-sexual ways. If she chooses to move on and find someone who can be with her wholly (lawlanders), he accepts that, because at that point he's still not truly free, and doesn't know HOW to let himself love. He's scared that Denarius will come back and tell him to kill her, and He'll do it, because 'Master' said so. Like with the Fog Warriors.

It literally isn't untill Denarius is finaly dead and gone that he is truly free, and then can find the strength to love her wholly.


*nod*


"I cannot be the man you need, not yet, but I will always be here for you." is Friendship Fenris.

[Eirnae]

Addai67 wrote...

analogwatch wrote...

elenilote wrote...
Sexual abuse does not need to take the form of actual rape.

You are absolutely 100% correct, and I really should've elaborated upon that in the post. I don't think Danarius was outright raping him (as I said) but I do think there was some degree of sexual humiliation of some sort going on, I absolutely do. Why else would Fenris be so reluctant with Hawke at first? ("Another evening, perhaps." when Hawke propositions him the first time.)

Ugh... I should just stay away from this topic... but, I think there are plenty of reasons why he'd be reluctant to start a love affair and it makes more sense to see him keeping his distance because he's feeling an attraction/ closeness to Hawke than that he's reacting to some sexual PTSD.  Otherwise, y'know, Isabela...?

As sensitive issues go, the "r" word is right up there.  However, I think Fenris said it best when he told Hawke during their first fireside chat:  "You have no idea what's it's like to be a slave."

Fenris touches on the subject lightly, and I'm guessing that Hawke only got that much out of him because he was probably more than a little tipsy.  But if I recall correctly, he did go on to explain that a slave's concerns aren't their own, it's about pleasing the master/mistress.  What will increase their value in their owner's eyes?  That makes up an obediant slave's world.  I'll bet Fenris had his surly moments, but overall kept to his master's wishes, if not for pure survival.  Given the purported reputation of Tevinter magisters' depravity, sexual situations aren't out of the question.

Does that explain Fenris' aversion to being touched on another level?  Considering who and what he has been, why not?  Affection, at least the pure sort, isn't often bestowed on a slave.  Every touch had a price attached.  With Hawke, he experienced the giving of attention and affection with no expection of return.  I imagine that was terrifying for him, and something he had to defeat a near lifetime of conditioning to learn to accept.

Wow .. I really didn't mean to write that much.  I'll tuck myself into a corner now.  ^-^;

[Addai]

That would all make sense except that his aversion to being touched surfaces when he's grabbed to be restrained, not intimately. At least that we see, anyway, and can infer since obviously he's all grabbyhands with Isabela.

[Eirnae]

@Addai67
Now I have images of the group setting up a (surprise) party for Fenris in the mansion butting up against Fenris dressed as a cowboy. One should not go so fast between snickering and swooning!

@Heidenreich
This probably goes without saying, but I agree. To live with hate that long and have it be sneak attacked by the purest of emotions, love, results in one very muddled (and grumpy) elf.

[danitza81]

Ryzaki wrote...

Except for the fact that he only does it if he and Hawke slept together. 

And Fenris isn't Hawke's brother, not to mention Hawke is a grown man and doesn't need Fenris minding his business. 

I mean it would be cute if Bethany/Carver did it. A nice d'awww moment. But Fenris and Hawke don't even have to be friends. It's remarkably out of place on most of my Hawkes. 

Just something that has been bugging me for a while, feel free to ignore it...

I could be wrong, but I got the impression that the romances in DA2 ended up this messy because of content being cut from the game and the writers hurriedly trying to patch together what was left.

It's just too many small things that make little sense, like some crucial pieces of information were missing. Why would Fenris feel entitled to threaten Zevran if he's not with Hawke? Why would Anders question their relationship when there's no real relationship, years later? At what point did Hawke give Fenris his/her favor, in what context? If nothing happened during those three years their relationship was "unresolved" and they never spoke about it, why is the option of saying "I hope we'll stay together" there, and why does he react so casually to it?

I'm sure we could stretch our imagination and come up with perfectly acceptable explanations for all those things if we tried really hard but... should we really have to? Some degree of ambiguity in storytelling is always good, but I get the feeling this was more than just that. Oh well. I guess we'll never know.

[Ryzaki]

Addai67 wrote...
Yeah Varric is trying to get him to take a job, and a few of them try to get him to move out of the haunted mansion.  He tells them he prefers being a "ghost" in Kirkwall.  I don't imagine he's hosting parties in there.  But, I also don't get the sense he requires a lot of company.

True. I dunno. He just doesn't strike me as overly social outside the MBOM. 

@danitza81: Yeah it is just a bit too odd. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 31 mars 2011 - 10:08 .

[Addai]

I kept waiting for someone to draw cowboy Alistair and no one ever did.   Actually I wanted Regulator Alistair, with a smoking Blackhawk .44 in his hand, but a cowboy would do. Cowboy Fenris... I could like that.

Modifié par Addai67, 31 mars 2011 - 10:08 .

[Eirnae]

Addai67 wrote...

That would all make sense except that his aversion to being touched surfaces when he's grabbed to be restrained, not intimately. At least that we see, anyway, and can infer since obviously he's all grabbyhands with Isabela.

We really don't get to see how he'd react to a less invasive touch, since Hawke (bless her/him) was otherwise so careful in how they interacted.  Near as I can tell, he doesn't love Isabela.  When those two get together, she expects something of him and vice versa.  Purely physical, no involvement of pesky emotions.  Perhaps that makes it easier to deal with?  I like to think so.

[SurrealSadi]

Namuri wrote...

Rheia wrote...

Can change mauls to look like swords editing item_variations.gda too. That's what I do

Well, you can if you're on a computer.
S'ok Xbox, ilu man. I know my comp wouldn't be able to handle DA. X3

EDIT: Oh lord, I'm in the left most part of The Docks, and everytime I look at the minimap I have to giggle. XD;

The area with the shady merchant? Yeah, I keep looking at it and going, OMFG, why the hell did they make that hallway so phallic????

[ejoslin]

danitza81 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Except for the fact that he only does it if he and Hawke slept together. 

And Fenris isn't Hawke's brother, not to mention Hawke is a grown man and doesn't need Fenris minding his business. 

I mean it would be cute if Bethany/Carver did it. A nice d'awww moment. But Fenris and Hawke don't even have to be friends. It's remarkably out of place on most of my Hawkes. 

Just something that has been bugging me for a while, feel free to ignore it...

I could be wrong, but I got the impression that the romances in DA2 ended up this messy because of content being cut from the game and the writers hurriedly trying to patch together what was left.

It's just too many small things that make little sense, like some crucial pieces of information were missing. Why would Fenris feel entitled to threaten Zevran if he's not with Hawke? Why would Anders question their relationship when there's no real relationship, years later? At what point did Hawke give Fenris his/her favor, in what context? If nothing happened during those three years their relationship was "unresolved" and they never spoke about it, why is the option of saying "I hope we'll stay together" there, and why does he react so casually to it?

I'm sure we could stretch our imagination and come up with perfectly acceptable explanations for all those things if we tried really hard but... should we really have to? Some degree of ambiguity in storytelling is always good, but I get the feeling this was more than just that. Oh well. I guess we'll never know.

I have nothing to add, but I agree with this completely.  Fenris' reaction to Zevran is so weird, as is Anders asking about the relationship if they're not together.  I mean, you can metagame and get them back together first, but you don't need to (and in fact, my first playthrough I did not and just figured they were back together until I read his codex).

[DemonSaya]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Namuri wrote...

Rheia wrote...

Can change mauls to look like swords editing item_variations.gda too. That's what I do

Well, you can if you're on a computer.
S'ok Xbox, ilu man. I know my comp wouldn't be able to handle DA. X3

EDIT: Oh lord, I'm in the left most part of The Docks, and everytime I look at the minimap I have to giggle. XD;

The area with the shady merchant? Yeah, I keep looking at it and going, OMFG, why the hell did they make that hallway so phallic????

Almost every map in the game has a phallic shape.  Check out the 'Act of Mercy' quest.  There's a two little parts that poke off the map with a little...head.

[Eirnae]

Addai67 wrote...

I kept waiting for someone to draw cowboy Alistair and no one ever did.   Actually I wanted Regulator Alistair, with a smoking Blackhawk .44 in his hand, but a cowboy would do. Cowboy Fenris... I could like that.

*mind is blown by the thought of Regulator Alistair art*    That's going to leave a pleasant ache.  Maybe I should .. find an artist .. yeah.

I have yet to get the jealous reaction to Zevran from Fenris despite my two playthroughs.  Darn you, Isabela!  *shakes fist!*  This playthrough I'm determined to hear it.  The pirate is staying at the bar.  That said, I did not realize that you didn't have to patch things up to hear that reaction.  Hm.  Odd.

Modifié par Eirnae, 31 mars 2011 - 10:18 .

[Heidenreich]

I'm just assuming there's an unspoken 'no-sex' agreement. Otherwise lines like "You have me" and "I hope you'll stay with me" make no sense.

Aka, at some point a 'Fenmance' playthrough would have involved a mid-three-year-gap conversaion that they mutually agreed to be together, sans sex. (since sex w/ hawke brings up pesky things about the past)


and at the very least, that's what My Hawke and Fen have done in my horribly written Fic that's not finished>.>

*points at sig for selfish plug*

Modifié par Heidenreich, 31 mars 2011 - 10:18 .

[Addai]

Eirnae wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I kept waiting for someone to draw cowboy Alistair and no one ever did.   Actually I wanted Regulator Alistair, with a smoking Blackhawk .44 in his hand, but a cowboy would do. Cowboy Fenris... I could like that.

*mind is blown by the thought of Regulator Alistair art*    That's going to leave a pleasant ache.  Maybe I should .. find an artist .. yeah.

I know, right?  I had gone back to Fallout 3 and the day I had a vision of Regulator Alistair is burned into my mind and still hurts.  But then someone made a video of dancing Garrus in the Capital Wasteland and then I had to mentally have both Garrus and Alistair join Charon in my Megaton man-harem.  And Loghain.  And, clearly, Varric.

I've been smoking too much Fangirl and just need to calm down.

I have yet to get the jealous reaction to Zevran from Fenris despite my two playthroughs.  Darn you, Isabela!  *shakes fist!*  This playthrough I'm determined to hear it.  The pirate is staying at the bar.  That said, I did not realize that you didn't have to patch things up to hear that reaction.  Hm.  Odd.

Isabela's always on the lam by that time in my game.  I'll never see her act 3 stuff.

[Eirnae]

Heidenreich, your fic is more than read-worthy. Trust me. I stalk, er, seek out Fenris fanfics often, so I know what I'm talking about.

For my gals, I've settled on there being a deep friendship and an even deeper sense of trust that they worked hard to develop over those three years. The relationship didn't just stop after that night, after all. Lots of sexual tension at first, I'm sure, but it became an undercurrent that could be temporarily pushed aside. They were "together" in a sense, but not romantically. Ah, the angsty torture ..

[Helen0rz]

This thread got serious, I can't catch up because I'm at work

[Heidenreich]

Eirnae wrote...

Heidenreich, your fic is more than read-worthy. Trust me. I stalk, er, seek out Fenris fanfics often, so I know what I'm talking about.

For my gals, I've settled on there being a deep friendship and an even deeper sense of trust that they worked hard to develop over those three years. The relationship didn't just stop after that night, after all. Lots of sexual tension at first, I'm sure, but it became an undercurrent that could be temporarily pushed aside. They were "together" in a sense, but not romantically. Ah, the angsty torture ..

I'm stuck, because when ever I start writing my husband plops desert in front of me. This afternoon it was icecream and I had to delete 10 paragraphs of writing because I'd lost my train of thought >.>

Evil, evil husbands

[Eirnae]

Addai67, Isabela and my Hawkes (I address both because, apparently, I can't deviate from the snarky personality to save my life, and their decisions hardly vary) started out on shaky footing, but eventually she became like a bawdy big sister.  I really didn't want to like her, and I tried reeeeally hard to focus on her negative elements.  The darn girl just makes me laugh too much.

Admittedly, though, her Act 3 banter and such isn't as hilarious when compared to Act 1 and 2.  Especially Act 2.  (Her reaction to parts of Repentance?  Gold.  Pure gold!)  Arguably, I do love the banter in Act 3 when Fenris explains what would have happened to her if Hawke had let the Qunari have her.
"If you want to thank Hawke, she's standing right there."

Modifié par Eirnae, 31 mars 2011 - 10:43 .

[Sherbet Lemon]

Torax wrote...

I was just commenting on the fan made art that was the last 2 or so pages before i typed it. All had him shirtless and posed. Just sayin. I like the guy and he's one of my favorite. Just was amusing. Isn't like I said all are. Maybe the word many was read as more than I would have meant. Would "some" have appeased enough to not justify a wall of text defense for a one liner?

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't mean to offend or come off rude.  I misunderstood the question.  I'm so sorry!  I'm real bad at internet communication.  Again, I apologize I just wanted to answer the question.  I meant nothing hostile when I wrote it!