55378 réponses à ce sujet

[SurrealSadi]

* Merrill: I've always wondered: how do your Divines choose their names?
* Sebastian: They write all the best sacred names on slips of paper and stuff them in a miter.
* Sebastian: Then the newly elected Divine picks a name out of the hat.
* Merrill: What if she picks a name she doesn't like? Does she have to keep it?
* Sebastian: Of course she does. How do you think we got four Divines named Hortensia?

I have always laughed at that, because I can't tell if Seb's toying with Merrill, or is being honest.

[Thiefy]

Ladivixxen wrote...

tankgirly wrote...

I will leave this one here

This just made my night 100xs better

this wins the thread

[Tasmen]

darkrose wrote...

Helen0rz wrote...

I have this image in my head, where after battle Fenris is hurt. Anders come to heal him with his exasperated experession on his face. Fenris refused the healing. Hawke got mad and made Anders go back there to heal Fenris and made Fenris accept his help

or something. There's always health potion? LOL

I swear, no matter what I do with tactics, Anders will not heal Fenris unless I take control and make him. It's like there's a secret "Ally < 25% Health (except Fenris)" flag in there somewhere.

I have to wonder about that.  It seems to me like Anders wouldn't heal my douchy m!hawke either unless I manually controlled Anders.

[tankgirly]

@Thief-of-Hearts, thank you.

[Tealsie]

Anders is a selective-healer. He did the same thing with Fenris for me. And Varric once, randomly. Varric was down to like... 10% health, Anders had rather more than that, and yet he... healed himself. And not Varric. the hell, man?
I like to think it's Justice. but that's probably just me...

[SurrealSadi]

Tealsie wrote...

Anders is a selective-healer. He did the same thing with Fenris for me. And Varric once, randomly. Varric was down to like... 10% health, Anders had rather more than that, and yet he... healed himself. And not Varric. the hell, man?
I like to think it's Justice. but that's probably just me...

This is why when I get to a certain point in a PT that I'm NOT playing a Spirit Healer Hawke, I give EVERYONE a tactic to heal themselves at about 25/50% health.

[Tealsie]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Tealsie wrote...

Anders is a selective-healer. He did the same thing with Fenris for me. And Varric once, randomly. Varric was down to like... 10% health, Anders had rather more than that, and yet he... healed himself. And not Varric. the hell, man?
I like to think it's Justice. but that's probably just me...

This is why when I get to a certain point in a PT that I'm NOT playing a Spirit Healer Hawke, I give EVERYONE a tactic to heal themselves at about 25/50% health.

That's what I had to wind up doing.
Anders heals  when health drops below 50%(or, y'know... he's SUPPOSED to)
They heal themselves when health drops below 10%

Works pretty well.

[Helen0rz]

darkrose wrote...

Helen0rz wrote...

I have this image in my head, where after battle Fenris is hurt. Anders come to heal him with his exasperated experession on his face. Fenris refused the healing. Hawke got mad and made Anders go back there to heal Fenris and made Fenris accept his help

or something. There's always health potion? LOL

I swear, no matter what I do with tactics, Anders will not heal Fenris unless I take control and make him. It's like there's a secret "Ally < 25% Health (except Fenris)" flag in there somewhere.

i'm on xbox....so for me it's pretty much "Anders hardly ever heals anyone." <_<

[tankgirly]

Helen0rz wrote...

darkrose wrote...

Helen0rz wrote...

I have this image in my head, where after battle Fenris is hurt. Anders come to heal him with his exasperated experession on his face. Fenris refused the healing. Hawke got mad and made Anders go back there to heal Fenris and made Fenris accept his help

or something. There's always health potion? LOL

I swear, no matter what I do with tactics, Anders will not heal Fenris unless I take control and make him. It's like there's a secret "Ally < 25% Health (except Fenris)" flag in there somewhere.

i'm on xbox....so for me it's pretty much "Anders hardly ever heals anyone." <_<

Anders to have the reviving ability, just in case people forget.
Found it damn useful when fighting with that Pride Demon in the strange cave....

As for Fenris, he's a superb body guard. Danarius trained him well.

Modifié par tankgirly, 07 avril 2011 - 01:58 .

[Madame Rose Crimsynn]

tankgirly wrote...

Madame Rose Crimsynn wrote...

@MDS

Uh-huh. Whatever you say.

tankgirly wrote...

I will leave this one here

Oh my... 

I still live in Gutter District, dear. You can tell, can you?

Absolutely.

*Fans self because of picture*

[SurrealSadi]

Tealsie wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Tealsie wrote...

Anders is a selective-healer. He did the same thing with Fenris for me. And Varric once, randomly. Varric was down to like... 10% health, Anders had rather more than that, and yet he... healed himself. And not Varric. the hell, man?
I like to think it's Justice. but that's probably just me...

This is why when I get to a certain point in a PT that I'm NOT playing a Spirit Healer Hawke, I give EVERYONE a tactic to heal themselves at about 25/50% health.

That's what I had to wind up doing.
Anders heals  when health drops below 50%(or, y'know... he's SUPPOSED to)
They heal themselves when health drops below 10%

Works pretty well.

Safest thing to do

[yoshibb]

Kind of spending a little more time in Act 3 this time around. I feel like in the beginning both Anders and Fenris were the two people that made everyone feel uncomfortable. But then towards the end, it feels like Fenris has finally learned some social skills and cooled off a little bit. He's a little more open towards friendly banter and he just seems like he gets along with everyone.

I feel the opposite about Anders, like as time goes on he becomes more and more crazy. By the end it seems like everyone is so tired of his inappropriate jokes and ****ing about templars that they just don't want to deal with him anymore.

Just kind of sad.

[darkrose]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

darkrose wrote...

He doesn't say "you're okay because I want to do you", but it's certainly implied. 

Romancing him as a mage hit a few of my buttons. "All [insert minority group here] are [lazy/shiftless/greedy/criminals], but I don't think of you as [member of minority group]. Or, "I hate something that's an intrinsic part of who you are, but I'm willing to pretend it doesn't exist. However, I will continue to rail against and berate people who share the same characteristic--including when we're in front of a woman who wants to see you lobotimized--and I reserve the right to be a jerk and throw your dead mother in your face in order to prove my point that all other people like you suck."

Now granted, it doesn't help that with the exception of mage!Hawke or Bethany, every single mage in Kirkwall is bat**** crazy and/or a blood mage. But by the end of the game, my mage!Hawke was seriously considering running off with Varric, because he was the only person who wasn't guilt-tripping him.

How is it implied when he treats an unromanced mage!Hawke the same as a romanced one?

I don't think he was guilt-tripping anyone. Just because he cares for Hawke doesn't mean he's going to turn a blind eye to all of those irresponsible mages who Hawke doesn't even deserve to be lumped with. I also don't think it's wrong for him to consider Hawke an exception. Hawke is an exception, whether s/he likes it or not. Too few mages have managed to make a convincing argument that his views are wrong. So far he's been right about just about every one of them.

That's kind of what Hawke signed onto when Hawke decided to get involved with a guy who hates magic, TBH. My mage!Hawke understood this, respected his conviction and 'agreed to disagree'. I liked that he was willing to follow her on her pro-mage crusade even in spite of his reservations. He keeps her honest, makes her remember there are two sides to the argument so she doesn't become blind to the faults and dangers of mages like Anders was.

RE: Blood Mage. Nobody brings this up. It basically doesn't happen in canon because nobody talks about it. Ever. Carver even says Hawke isn't a blood mage if you've got the blood mage spec. It just doesn't affect conversation at all.

As for Hawke's responsibility... S/He has killed scores of demons and resisted countless offers. That alone proves Hawke capable of more strength and character than the majority of mages.

Okay, I'll rephrase: Fenris considers Hawke an exception because either he wants to do Hawke, or because game mechanics require it. 


I don't buy the "well, mage Hawke signed up for that", sorry. My mage Hawke understood that mages can be dangerous, but speaking from experience, having your lover constantly harp on how people like you are bad? Gets really, really old really fast. I enjoyed the roleplaying, but Fenris's degree of hatred for mages made it kind of a problematic relationship.

As far as the blood mage thing, the fact that no one brings it up is one of those things that's an unfortunate handwave, like the fact that everyone seems to not see the robes and the staff until Meredith calls you on it at the end of Act 2. The logical inconsistency doesn't make it a non-issue.

Regarding Hawke resisting countless offers? Not necessarily. I can choose to not to destroy the tomes in Forbidden Knowledge, or make a deal with the demon possessing Feynriel, or try to deal with the desire demon in the Harriman estate. And if I'm rivalmancing Fenris, none of that will come up except as "we don't always see eye to eye." Hawke is not inherently any stronger or better than any other mage, except as far as game mechanics require. 

All of which aside, I'm not saying that Fenris is bad or wrong. I'm saying that he's flawed like every other character in the game. He's adamantly convinced that he's right, to the point where he does things that aren't necessarily consistent. That's what makes him an interesting character, AFAIC.

[SurrealSadi]

yoshibb wrote...

Kind of spending a little more time in Act 3 this time around. I feel like in the beginning both Anders and Fenris were the two people that made everyone feel uncomfortable. But then towards the end, it feels like Fenris has finally learned some social skills and cooled off a little bit. He's a little more open towards friendly banter and he just seems like he gets along with everyone.

I feel the opposite about Anders, like as time goes on he becomes more and more crazy. By the end it seems like everyone is so tired of his inappropriate jokes and ****ing about templars that they just don't want to deal with him anymore.

Just kind of sad.

Anders falls down that insanity slope just about as fast as Meredith does. Partially because of Justice, and partially because of the thin Veil in Kirkwall... Justice must make him far more sensitive to it than the average mage, so it screws with him more.

[ejoslin]

There are mages all over kirkwell that aren't turned in -- I get the feeling that the people are not sympathetic to the Templars. Anders runs a clinic, for instance, but there are others as well. The crackdown doesn't begin in earnest until act 3.

Again, a rivalmance just has a different dynamic. The mage relationship seems to be set up in that direction as well, though obviously you can friendmance him as a mage. I know my mage challenged Fenris when he would say anti-mage stuff, and while he would not approve, he would generally not dismiss what Hawke said either. They fought constantly, but there was still that draw.

Game mechanics is a part of this of course, but he does not have to want to be involved with a mage or think that it's ok.

"We don't always see eye to eye" is an apology for him taking out his anger on Hawke, not an explanation for their disagreement over mages.

[ThatDancingTurian]

darkrose wrote...

Okay, I'll rephrase: Fenris considers Hawke an exception because either he wants to do Hawke, or because game mechanics require it.

So you're just disregarding character interaction because it doesn't fit with your interpretation? It's not mechanics in this case, it's fact; Fenris respects Hawke, regardless of 'doability'.

I'm willing to admit Fenris is flawed. I'm not even saying he's necessarily right, but I don't believe he's ever been anything but consistent with his views. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, I just don't see it at all.

[darkrose]

Tasmen wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Fenris' point seems to be not that all mages are bad -- but the bad ones have so much power and you never know which mages can be trusted (and he's right about that).  He also admires Hawke's strength. 

That's a point I think a lot of people forget about Fenris.  He doesn't hate someone because they are a mage imho.  I believe he hates what magic can make a person into, having seen some of the worst in Tevinter. 

That may be true, but effectively, there's no difference. "Love the sinner; hate the sin" still sucks when your sexual orientation is the "sin". 

But I think that's part of the point. Fenris has valid reasons to feel the way he does, but he takes it to an extreme, just as Anders does. With the exception of mage!Hawke/Bethany, Fenris will automatically assume the worst of any mage. When I took him on Long Way Home, and Merrill helped us kill skeletons, he's vicious to her because she's a mage--remember, this is before we know she's a blood mage. In Act 3, if you let the poor sod with the bad haircut who just wants to get laid go, Fenris argues, convinced that the guy must be lying because he's a sneaky, lying mage. And if you tell Meredith what you did, he sides with her. 

Most of the choices in DA2 are binary. Mages or templars. Orsino or Meredith. Anders or Fenris. They're simply different ends of the spectrum, noble and flawed in equal measure. 

[ThatDancingTurian]

darkrose wrote...

That may be true, but effectively, there's no difference. "Love the sinner; hate the sin" still sucks when your sexual orientation is the "sin".

I think you're taking personal issues and projecting them onto the mage situation. Mages may be born that way but there is no equivalent in real society. They're like mutants from X-Men. Your sexual orientation does not make you a real physical danger to everyone around you. Your skin color doesn't give you a weakness to exploitation by demons who would use your body to wreak havoc on the world around you.

[Tasmen]

darkrose wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Fenris' point seems to be not that all mages are bad -- but the bad ones have so much power and you never know which mages can be trusted (and he's right about that).  He also admires Hawke's strength. 

That's a point I think a lot of people forget about Fenris.  He doesn't hate someone because they are a mage imho.  I believe he hates what magic can make a person into, having seen some of the worst in Tevinter. 

That may be true, but effectively, there's no difference. "Love the sinner; hate the sin" still sucks when your sexual orientation is the "sin". 

But I think that's part of the point. Fenris has valid reasons to feel the way he does, but he takes it to an extreme, just as Anders does. With the exception of mage!Hawke/Bethany, Fenris will automatically assume the worst of any mage. When I took him on Long Way Home, and Merrill helped us kill skeletons, he's vicious to her because she's a mage--remember, this is before we know she's a blood mage. In Act 3, if you let the poor sod with the bad haircut who just wants to get laid go, Fenris argues, convinced that the guy must be lying because he's a sneaky, lying mage. And if you tell Meredith what you did, he sides with her. 

Most of the choices in DA2 are binary. Mages or templars. Orsino or Meredith. Anders or Fenris. They're simply different ends of the spectrum, noble and flawed in equal measure. 

I suppose I can see you point, though I don't completely agree with it.  I do agree that there does seem to be a different standard when it comes to Bethany/mage!Hawke.  I believe that is because Fenris actually knows them whereas he doesn't know other mages.  Of course, this does interpretation open that he's being a bit of a hypocrite and you even get him to sarcastically say that when Anders comes to talk to Hawke about Fenris if Fenris is there.  

I believe he feels the way he does about Merrill and Anders because he knows them AND he's seen what kind of mages they are: one being a blood mage and the other seeming to be an abomination.  Now, if Hawke is a blood mage, that does make things especially odd and I have to admit that I do wish there was something about that in game as I do think Fenris WOULD have a problem with that regardless of his feelings for Hawke.   But as you said, game mechanics...

[Helen0rz]

ejoslin wrote...

There are mages all over kirkwell that aren't turned in -- I get the feeling that the people are not sympathetic to the Templars. Anders runs a clinic, for instance, but there are others as well. The crackdown doesn't begin in earnest until act 3.

Again, a rivalmance just has a different dynamic. The mage relationship seems to be set up in that direction as well, though obviously you can friendmance him as a mage. I know my mage challenged Fenris when he would say anti-mage stuff, and while he would not approve, he would generally not dismiss what Hawke said either. They fought constantly, but there was still that draw.

Game mechanics is a part of this of course, but he does not have to want to be involved with a mage or think that it's ok.

"We don't always see eye to eye" is an apology for him taking out his anger on Hawke, not an explanation for their disagreement over mages.

^This

Aris Ravenstar wrote...
I think you're taking personal issues and projecting them onto the mage situation. Mages may be born that way but there is no equivalent in real society. They're like mutants from X-Men. Your sexual orientation does not make you a real physical danger to everyone around you. Your skin color doesn't give you a weakness to exploitation by demons who would use your body to wreak havoc on the world around you.

^^and this

[darkrose]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

darkrose wrote...

Okay, I'll rephrase: Fenris considers Hawke an exception because either he wants to do Hawke, or because game mechanics require it.

So you're just disregarding character interaction because it doesn't fit with your interpretation? It's not mechanics in this case, it's fact; Fenris respects Hawke, regardless of 'doability'.

I'm willing to admit Fenris is flawed. I'm not even saying he's necessarily right, but I don't believe he's ever been anything but consistent with his views. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, I just don't see it at all.

Fenris is willing to give Hawke a pass. He is not willing to give that benefit of the doubt to any other mage in the game, ever. Even before he knows Merrill is a blood mage, he's horrible to her. Throughout the entire game, he insists that magic is bad, with no exceptions, and yet, he chooses to hang out with a mage. Despite normally being honorable, he disagrees when you refuse to blackmail Ser Thrask about his daughter. 

It would be one thing if he said, "Magic can be problematic". But he doesn't. He always says "magic is problematic". Hawke is the single exception, and regardless of what Hawke actually does, he won't object until the very end of the game.

[ThatDancingTurian]

darkrose wrote...

Fenris is willing to give Hawke a pass. He is not willing to give that benefit of the doubt to any other mage in the game, ever. Even before he knows Merrill is a blood mage, he's horrible to her. Throughout the entire game, he insists that magic is bad, with no exceptions, and yet, he chooses to hang out with a mage. Despite normally being honorable, he disagrees when you refuse to blackmail Ser Thrask about his daughter. 

It would be one thing if he said, "Magic can be problematic". But he doesn't. He always says "magic is problematic". Hawke is the single exception, and regardless of what Hawke actually does, he won't object until the very end of the game.

Fenris doesn't give Hawke a pass, Hawke has earned a pass. There's a difference. Fenris is not willing to treat mages without suspicion because he has every right to be suspicious. I don't know what you're talking about with Merrill, since you find out right away that she's a blood mage. What did he say to her that was 'horrible' before she cut open her hand and he called her foolish?

Ser Thrask is a hypocrite. Thrask doesn't practice what he preaches, and at the end gets killed for being weak-willed and wishy-washy. But regardless, what does that have to do with mages? Fenris didn't say, 'You deserve it for harboring a mage, you terrible, terrible man!'

I don't understand what's wrong with saying magic is problematic, either. Magic is problematic. It causes problems to people who use it. Fairly straightforward. And not hypocritical.

[darkrose]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

darkrose wrote...

That may be true, but effectively, there's no difference. "Love the sinner; hate the sin" still sucks when your sexual orientation is the "sin".

I think you're taking personal issues and projecting them onto the mage situation. Mages may be born that way but there is no equivalent in real society. They're like mutants from X-Men. Your sexual orientation does not make you a real physical danger to everyone around you. Your skin color doesn't give you a weakness to exploitation by demons who would use your body to wreak havoc on the world around you.

Interesting that you mention X-Men. Because the first two movies weren't an incredibly heavy-handed analogy for sexual orientation, just like the mage situation isn't in any way intended as an analogy for the same.

[ejoslin]

Fenris is suspicious of mage!Hawke as well at first. Here's what he says (among other things): "You are not Danarius. Whether you are anything like him remains to be seen." In fact, Fenris is no worse to Merrill or Anders than he is to Hawke at first. His comment to Merrill is something like, "I imagine it's difficult to give away something nobody wants."

Hawke gets to know Fenris, there's a draw there, and friend or rival, a respect develops.

Keep in mind that Fenris knows Hawke for 3 years before they have sex, and 3 years after that before they resolve their relationship. This is a long period of time to get to know someone and to fight being involved with them (I think WAY too long, but that's not the subject here).

Edit: Ahhh, and here is how he answer if you ask him if he has a problem with mages: "I have an issue with magic and those who are careless with it."

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 avril 2011 - 02:43 .

[alexa_025]

Aeryn-Sun wrote...

Anders personally turned me off from the start because I was in love with his VA from Awakening. So, started out on the wrong foot.

The romance itself is interesting and passionate and tragic, which are all fine by me, but two things killed it for me - when he all but begs/guilt trips Hawke into letting him move in, and when he lies about the cure and again begs/guilt trips Hawke into helping him even though he lied about the cure. There's just no trust to be found imo. When the endgame came around, all I could think was, "He was using Hawke this whole time." And he WANTS you to kill him - which means he still is using Hawke even then. Any affection or love in the relationship looked like hollow lies then. It just gives me this unhealthy, twisted, empty feeling.

I don't mind Anders outside a romance, though. It's just not a romance for me.

QFT. And he's intense about Hawke from the very beginning. Hawke has a line about it "being too much" and it fits. Everyone's warning her about him from the very beginning too. Sebastian does say "he's dangerous, and selfish." at some point and in the end he's right. 
I suppose the reason I like Fen's romance so much is that it's almost the complete opposite, and he's always honest with her, even if they sometimes argue because of it. 

Modifié par alexa_025, 07 avril 2011 - 02:45 .