55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Sphynx118]

This thread scares me

[Shepard Lives]

Sphynx118 wrote...

This thread scares me

You're not the only one. Hold me?

[SaberBloodwork]

shepard_lives wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

This thread scares me

You're not the only one. Hold me?

Well, a few posters scare me too but it's not so bad when you get used to it 



And my fellow Fenris fans, could we post the more sexy pictures as links? That way we can still visit and see them and other people won't get discouraged to post here, because they see those awesome sexy pictures, get insecure/a nosebleed and can't focus on the actual discussions about Fenris going on here ;)And as far as things go, I think the devs are more likely to answer any of our questions if they don't see those more daring masterpieces

Modifié par SaberBloodwork, 25 décembre 2010 - 05:06 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Sphynx118 wrote...

This thread scares me

A gentle reminder to tone enthusiasm down during pique moments is fine. I've never seen hostility and everyone here is generally friendly.

[Saibh]

Generally, I can only stand fan threads when they just open. Afterward, everyone gets clique-ish and develop their own in-jokes and get more...crazy.



I really wish we would limit the squeeing down to occasional news, and focus the thread on speculation, I really do.

[lv12medic]

Saibh wrote...

I really wish we would limit the squeeing down to occasional news, and focus the thread on speculation, I really do.

Thats like telling people they should follow the speed limit.

[Rovay]

lv12medic wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I really wish we would limit the squeeing down to occasional news, and focus the thread on speculation, I really do.

Thats like telling people they should follow the speed limit.

It's fortunate then, that squeeing doesn't cause as much casualties as speeding.

[Anarya]

Tankgirly that tiramisu looks completely amazing! I'd love the recipe if you don't mind sharing it.



Also Margaret your sister does sound awesome. Hehe...Nutella stocking stuffer.



And I didn't notice that Fenris' markings got all angular at first in the Tron pic. Attention to detail! Very nice indeed.



Merry Christmas, Fenristhread! *puts a bow on Fenris' head and puts him under everyone's tree* (I cloned him with Christmas magic)

[Thiefy]

just wondering, out of the 155 pages thus far have we figured out if fenris is a LI or not?

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Anarya wrote...

Merry Christmas, Fenristhread! *puts a bow on Fenris' head and puts him under everyone's tree* (I cloned him with Christmas magic)

*w* How did you know what I wanted?!

[Ninja Mage]

I'm trying to think what actor looks most like Fenris...

[tankgirly]

Anarya wrote...

 I'd love the recipe if you don't mind sharing it.

Let me see if I can dig that one out for ya.

[La_Duchessa]

tankgirly wrote...

Anarya wrote...

 I'd love the recipe if you don't mind sharing it.

Let me see if I can dig that one out for ya.

Please!!! for a Boxing Day present!!!

[Mresa]

O hi! I though I'd join the party by now as I've been a lurker since like forever.

[tankgirly]

Mresa wrote...

O hi! I though I'd join the party by now as I've been a lurker since like forever.

Welcome onboard!

[Madame Rose Crimsynn]

*Sneaking on during family function on laptop*



Merry Christmas everyone! Anything new?

[Thestral]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

just wondering, out of the 155 pages thus far have we figured out if fenris is a LI or not?

Nope, we don't know.

[La_Duchessa]

Madame Rose Crimsynn wrote...

*Sneaking on during family function on laptop*

Merry Christmas everyone! Anything new?

Don't think so...

[tankgirly]

Madame Rose Crimsynn wrote...

*Sneaking on during family function on laptop*

Merry Christmas everyone! Anything new?

I think they are all on holiday at the moment, so no.

[dirtsa90]

Merry Christmas everyone.. and as usual when I return, Gaider has granted us the luxury of visiting and talking with us, there are new awesome artworks and even a really cute fic. This thread just makes me happy.. )

EDIT: Grammar mistakes..

Modifié par dirtsa90, 25 décembre 2010 - 10:54 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

Merry Christmas everyone.



@Thief-of-Hearts - No, we don't know if he's a LI or not yet. We're only speculating at this point.

[Wynne]

David Gaider wrote...

True. Fantasy romances have nothing to do with real-life romances. Some of these characters are seriously screwed up. When people say things like "I want to date my romance" or "why can't they be more sensible like someone in real life" my response is generally "Good God, why would you want that? This is a fantasy in more ways than just the genre."

In other words, if I gave some of these people what they thought they wanted, my suspicion is they wouldn't actually want it. So I excel at giving people what they don't want. Which is weird, but there you go.

I think in some cases it's more like giving people what they would want to try, but in real life wouldn't want to because their common sense would say, "HELL, no, not gonna jump off that cliff."

Just to take an outside example, there's Bishop. In real life, if I met somebody like him, I would avoid him for my own safety's sake unless he wanted me to be his psychologist in a public place hopefully right next to the police station. In NWN2, I got the main character's simple harbor girl background and enjoyed having her intelligence and premature-maturity sort of get her in over her head. I liked that the game invited me to sort of do that if I wanted to.

Then there's Carth. The silly teasing, I actually do in real life. Strip away the fantastic elements, like him being a space pilot and you being who you are, and it's a pretty human relationship. I liked that. I liked that, specifically, about it. It felt authentic. I felt like the characters could live a life together under normal circumstances and have a great time doing the most everyday things. It was great that way, feeling like they belonged in the same universe.

So, the troubled "bad boy" types and the really damaged ones are more like exercises in giving in to emotional impulses we would normally control out of knowing it's dangerous to get involved with someone you're trying to help/you don't trust. You get to play around with that and in some cases, remind yourself why you made the right choice in holding back. I think this type is most fun when there are realistic consequences based on the individual character.)

The decent types, though... Carth, Alistair... I think the appeal is, that is a good idea. But in those cases, of course, the surrounding circumstances provide the drama and you have to sort of fight to hold on to what you've found. That in itself can be sort of realistic. I mean, I left my family, my country to be with the person I love. It was a tremendous sacrifice. It still hurts, especially right now, getting off the phone having spoken to my parents, who have only one child and didn't even get to hug her and give her presents on Christmas day. Yet I wouldn't change my decision no matter how painful it can be, because I feel the rightness of being where I am.

I don't know Fenris yet, but I'd put him somewhere in between, though leaning more towards decent. If that's the case, well, that's a romance that could reach a lot of different types of people.

David Gaider wrote...

I'm wondering why this sort of complaint should keep me from doing this in the future, and I really can't imagine it. My version of "fantasy romance" does not extend to "you're the only person they've ever loved or will love EVER". Sorry.

I honestly think you're doing us a rather strong injustice by saying this; misunderstanding the problem entirely. I'm going to explain why in detail, not that you have to read it.

I'm gonna try to break this down for you from the other side of the writer-reader relationship. It's not petty jealousy leading us (well, maybe a little, but I swear we mostly joke about that; talk of roasting Bethany is a declaration of love of Fenris, not anything so serious, as we may well end up adoring Bethany.) Yet I personally would gladly settle for, even though you're not (in most cases) the only person they've ever loved:
--You're the only person they've truly been in love with on a level where they felt at peace with it and brave enough to really let it happen, letting both of you know you're not just relationship #45, preceding relationship #46.
--You're the only person they've had the chance to consummate an actual romance with (whether sexually or emotionally or both).
--You're the only person they've been able to see themselves with long-term (thus, it probably scares them).
--The person(s) they loved didn't return their feelings.
--You're the person who fits who they are now vs. who they were when they loved that person, as people change and develop throughout the lifespan.
--Their earlier lover didn't tragically die, searing the memory traumatically into their head/heart forever, but just wasn't right for them. (Let's face it, this happens more than anything else. It may not be as sexy, but it feels far more sensible.)
--And so forth.

I don't need the LI to belittle what they had with that first person or persons--just to make it clear that they have moved on and are changed for having loved that person! I want to feel that the death or loss had an impact on who they are, because that is realistic. Deaths do that to a person. I do not want to be forced to question whether the LI is truly going to be able to get over that person, because rebounds are not in any way a turn-on to a level-headed person. It makes me feel like, "Okay, you go ahead and grieve, I'll be a friend because that's what you need and anything else would feel icky and manipulative." I wish it to be fairly clear, at least at some point, that the person I'm romancing is not stuck in the past and can, in fact, move on--otherwise I really have no choice but to avoid the content unless I later decide to play a creepy, manipulative character.

Failing all of that, I would still be happy enough with:
--They don't talk more than once about how great the dead woman was without ever asking whether you're okay with it.
--They don't assume that your openness to conversation means "Go ahead and worship her in retrospect, taking up a noticeable portion of our conversation time for your-ex-lover-related-therapy while I sit here and squirm."

I am sure that although you and your fangirls may be very different people, we agree on a few things:
--When you are freshly romantically interested in someone, it's plainly stupid to make her feel like nothing she can EVER do will match up to your dreamy, misty first romance, and she can only be a pale shadow of what you once had. It's kind of a surefire no to the question of you ever getting a second date, unless the woman has an almost godly measure of tolerance and graciousness, or is simply as childish as the person who treated her that way. (Exception is if the LI is *trying* to push you away and warn you off; then it's just how the character is.)
--It's great to be honest with someone you like, but honesty does not equal long, drawn-out stories that may be painful and serve no one in being told. At least a little sensitivity in how the tale is given will be appreciated, meaning, no rhapsodic soliloquies about her perfection/the perfection of your love.
--You'd better be damned careful how you compare her to your dead lover, because otherwise it's going to come across as super-creepy. Again, when you're romantically interested in someone, even vaguely and distractedly, you're in most cases not going to let her think that you just decided she was close enough to the real thing to make do with since the one you actually want is dead.

It's not a sign of immaturity to want to know that you're loved for yourself--quite the opposite. Any mature person would insist on that, no matter how kindly and patiently they did so. And when someone is a perfect stranger to you, you need something to go on to tell you that they are a viable candidate for a romance. What they say makes a big difference in that.

Finally, there is the fact that although the love interest is allowed to talk about all of their fantastic sexual exploits and seemingly perfect marriages, the player is not often allowed to reciprocate! I don't care as much if my LI talks about that stuff as long as I don't have to just sit there and listen, which is one-sided and possibly worse on a realism level than if he had no romantic past. Is the player's romantic history somehow less important than that of the person they're falling for? Objectively, I wouldn't think so. This is part of why I would gladly give up some control of my main character in exchange for the writers having an idea in their head of the base characteristics of that person, and thus why I expect to like DA2 better (though I liked that DAO gave some options for this, I'd like it to be more across-the-board; that if you talk about past loves, it's fairly reciprocal.) I dream of a day when I can be the one with the tragically dead lover and decide how I feel about that.

Ines's list is pretty solid. Sure, we've got Jaheira... but after Jaheira, I am having a very hard time thinking of a case where a female character went on and on about her lost true love. This is in any game I've played since then. Maybe I'm just not thinking hard enough. But I do find that odd. And I have to honestly question, why does this happen to us so many times, and male players only once? I do not mean to offend you. I am earnestly perplexed and it's something I've been trying to figure out for a long time now.
--Why do we get this tragic dead lover thing, and not them?
--Why do they not hear, "you're actually a lot like him..."? What makes the comparison seem like a good idea when the player is female and not male?
--Why don't we get to see and know the person like they did with Khalid, and thus know as players on an organic level that we're not like the former love while simultaneously gaining sympathy for their loved one talking about them? (Adventuring with nervous Khalid made him seem far more real and sympathetic than somebody like Thane's Irikah with her sunset-colored eyes, defiant in the scope.)
--Also, why is the dead gal always so shiny and lovely rather than somebody he was glad to leave?

If nothing else, for variety's sake, I just don't want this fabulous dead girl thing to happen again for a nice, long time. I know you don't answer to us and you may not even read this. But I love your work, so I have to at least try to get you to understand that we're not just being whiny and demanding fangirls when we say this stuff. We want to see you do yourself justice, and no writer is served by not catching themselves frequently doing something that jolts their audience into thinking, "Oh, NO, not this plot device again!"

It can be easy to fall back on what seems to work. Sometimes it's a great idea, in fact. But the problem is, this really does not work, for all the reasons stated by us here. Repeatedly doing something your audience hates, as opposed to loves, is generally a bad idea.

RGC_Ines wrote...

-NWN1-Aarin Gend-dead girlfriend
-HotU-Valen-dead girlfriend
-KoTor-Carth-dead wife
-Jade Empire-Sky-dead wife
-Mass Effect-Kaidan-his girlfriend had luck and is still alive-probably
-Mass Effect 2-Thane and of course dead wife
-Dragon Age-Zevran and dead girlfriend
As You see, usually male LI for us, female players have dead wifes, girlfriends etc. I don't argue, that potential LI have his past and was in love earlier, Im just tired of those ghosts behind them....

I really didn't mind Zevran so much, though. I didn't feel Rinna was necessarily the perfect girl for who he was at the time I knew him; far from it. It was more that he added to the list of dead lovers you never meet than that it actually bothered me when I was playing it.

Please just give it a thought or two. I don't need a reply to be happy. I just hope you'll consider it for the future. That's all I can possibly ask of you.

[Dr. Doctor]

It is Winter in Thedas, after weeks of travelling, Hawke and the party have managed once more to return to Kirkwall to celebrate the upcoming year with family and friends. The group have now taken to the home of Hawke's mother to spend the holiday.

Hawke: Happy new year Fenris.

Fenris: I suppose it is; been a long time since I've been able to stop running and enjoy things like this.

Hawke: I have somehing for you. (hands Fenris a small box)

Fenris: (opening the gift) Its a journal.

Hawke: I might not be able to return your memories, but this might help you to make some new ones.

Fenris: Thank you Hawke, happy new year.

(Hawke turns away and goes to talk with Carver, Fenris looks at the journal with a genuine smile on his face.)

[HolyJellyfish]

Ninja Mage wrote...

I'm trying to think what actor looks most like Fenris...

To me, his face reminds me of a young Rufus Sewell when the actor was in his twenties-early thirties. If the actor straightened his hair, dyed it, went tanning, and wore green eye contacts.

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 26 décembre 2010 - 04:00 .

[maselphie]

David Gaider wrote...

Ex-Paladin wrote...
I agree; I really don't want to go through "former lover" crap heard enough of "former bedders" from Zevran <_<

I'm wondering why this sort of complaint should keep me from doing this in the future, and I really can't imagine it. My version of "fantasy romance" does not extend to "you're the only person they've ever loved or will love EVER". Sorry.

Whoa, wow, yeah, that's not the problem at all. The problem is talking about former lovers in front of your potential or current lover, often without even prompting it. I don't know about guys, but I assume it's the similar -- talking about other people you've banged in front of someone you're supposedly learning to care for barely shows care at all! Not that it should never be addressed in a relationship, but that's for REAL relationships. If you want to play the "fantasy" card, realize you're playing the "reality" card in your writing, actually. Fantasy relationships in game you're selling should not be, necessarily, be built strictly as a lesson to be taught about adult love. We're either kids or already have suffered the trials and tribulations about learning to accept people with former spouses and children. When we're exposed to fantasy romance, we want our heartstrings to be pulled, true. Drama. We thrive on it. I loved Carth's romance path. Would I choose to do it again and again and again? No. Please. That's not my idea of escapism, especially when alongside such painful romances are the f**k buddy female romances that have barely any strings attached and as just a nice piece of a**. Presumably because they have different writers, as I would hate for my male LIs to be shallow like that, but as you can see ... there's inequality at the moment. But there are future games abound, so tables may turn. I look forward to your future work and will continue to pad your salary.

If you want to know the base line of what's so irritable about former lovers, here it is: We want to feel special. Plain and simple. No secret meanings. No backwards message. We want to be special to the one we love. They don't have to be a virgin, but we don't want to hear about how another woman has changed their life completely. That's our job. That's why we're the protagonist. Talking about another lover who is way more specialer to them makes it seem like we are not as special as that other person. At best, we have the same impact on them. That is not special. That's ... the opposite.