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[Hekateras]

I, too, enjoyed the feeling of "OMG things are moving and my Hawke is just caught up in it and can only hope to adapt!". I'm a bit tired of controlling a PC who seems to be able to move mountains, as in any other RPG. This felt a lot more... real. Things are happening, conflicts are escalating out of control, I can react but I can't just make it all go away perfectly by waving my sword.

[Helen0rz]

Hekateras wrote...

I, too, enjoyed the feeling of "OMG things are moving and my Hawke is just caught up in it and can only hope to adapt!". I'm a bit tired of controlling a PC who seems to be able to move mountains, as in any other RPG. This felt a lot more... real. Things are happening, conflicts are escalating out of control, I can react but I can't just make it all go away perfectly by waving my sword.

and this is when I say, aside from the epilogue that says "HEY! NOW THAT YOU'RE DONE~! BUY THE NEXT GAME TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS~!" I'd say the ending was really good. I felt completely helpless playing as Hawke, where in the end nothing I did would've change anything...but it was enjoyable; it's different. 

[Dr. Doctor]

Hawke, to me is one of the best PC's that Bioware has created. You're not this all-powerful chosen one, you're this person who just so happened to get swept up by the world around you. Also, unlike a certain Commander, Hawke shows a fair bit of emotion over the course of the story.

[Hekateras]

Oh, god. The Commander. I will never forget the sight of her cold dead eyes and expressionless face as she flirted and joked with Alistair... O_O

[Helen0rz]

 and while we're on the subject of comparing...stuff...I came across this. 

from gamingunion

[SilentK]

Mel_Redux wrote...

SilentK wrote...
I had the helpless feeling too but that feelt so.... awesome. I remember talking to my husband when I played it blind the first time. Just saying, "I have no idea how to fix this, this can never end well". I really was my poor Hawke at that moment just bumbling through it. Never saw the saltpeter and manure connetion and was in complete chock afterwards. And when Fenris left me in Act 2 I was looking at the scene in complete disbelief. Thought that that was it and went crying to Merrill    =)   I loved it. I can't get the exact same feeling again now that I know the story 2 complete Hawkes later and the 3:rd in Act 2. But I still remember that hopeless feeling of not being in control and just trying to stay above water.

I agree completely.  once you know what is going to happen, and how to manipulate it, it's not as fun!  And emotionally draining!!

Well yes    =)   not so much fun perhaps. But I still love it for the tragedy. Gahh.... I just enjoy hurting myself I guess.  I go  *sniffle*  every time

[Addai]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Hawke, to me is one of the best PC's that Bioware has created. You're not this all-powerful chosen one, you're this person who just so happened to get swept up by the world around you. Also, unlike a certain Commander, Hawke shows a fair bit of emotion over the course of the story.

Well, Hawke is unusual, I'll say that.  I don't necessarily say it in a complimentary way, however.  Shepard is a forgettable character to me, and so are the myriad Fallout characters I played, who all sort of blend into one.  However it was no doubt that they were a Big **** Deal in their world and they actually did something.  Hawke is only a big deal because she made a lot of money and was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  It's not exactly inspiring.

[Helen0rz]

SilentK wrote...

Helen0rz wrote...

Laurelinde wrote...

<snip wall of text>

Nice analysis and I must say...I felt the same towards the end of the game. I remember on my first pt (romancing Anders too) and sided with the mages...and after the epilogue I felt like a deflated baloon. Hawke may have been an important part to Thedas history and she might be more important than Warden but I didn't feel that way. I think this is the first RPG I've ever played where I felt completely helpless, where everything I've done didn't change anything; the inevitable was going to happen regardless of my actions. 

And like you said, Anders is the main focus here and of course we didn't see that till he actually done something...

I had the helpless feeling too but that feelt so.... awesome. I remember talking to my husband when I played it blind the first time. Just saying, "I have no idea how to fix this, this can never end well". I really was my poor Hawke at that moment just bumbling through it. Never saw the saltpeter and manure connetion and was in complete chock afterwards. And when Fenris left me in Act 2 I was looking at the scene in complete disbelief. Thought that that was it and went crying to Merrill    =)   I loved it. I can't get the exact same feeling again now that I know the story 2 complete Hawkes later and the 3:rd in Act 2. But I still remember that hopeless feeling of not being in control and just trying to stay above water.

*nodnod*

yup, the feeling was not there in my 2nd or 3rd pt. I do recall really really wanted to stab Anders, more than once actually. Hawke did everything for everyone (whether or personal gain or not), they pretty much betray her the moment she turns around. HORRIBLE.

[Dr. Doctor]

On the same subject:

Fenris: Why do we constantly pay full price for our equipment?

Varric: What, you want a discount?

Fenris: We did help Hawke defeat the Qunari, and she is the Champion of Kirkwall. Perhaps the local merchants will offer us a discount in exchange for Hawke's endorsement.

Varric: You apparently didn't hear he story of what happened to the last Champion then.

Fenris: What happened?

Varric: Poor blighter went to every merchant in the city and told them that it was his favorite store in all of Kirkwall in exchange for a discount. Guy ended up being burned at the stake by a buch of angry Merchant's Guild members. A tragic story indeed.

Fenris: You're joking.

Varric: Of course I'm joking. By the time the Merchant's Guild could decide to burn anyone at the stake said person would have already died of old age.

[Ryzaki]

Eh. I find Hawke to be a weaker BW protagonist but to each their own.

I don't find it very interesting to be the guy who *saw* someone else make history.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Hawke, to me is one of the best PC's that Bioware has created. You're not this all-powerful chosen one, you're this person who just so happened to get swept up by the world around you. Also, unlike a certain Commander, Hawke shows a fair bit of emotion over the course of the story.

I agree, due to the fact that the story feels more personal for me. I like the fact that the world does not revolve around Hawke and even more that people around Hawke will do things s/he can't control or fix. And my cherry on top is that my first Hawke failed (she wanted to stop the conflict and save Kirkwall above everything else). She failed and the story didn't end with a game over. That made me a very happy gamer. 

Edit: Spelling 

Modifié par Yellow Words, 21 avril 2011 - 08:28 .

[Shacary]

I agree Ryzaki, I liked da2, but it felt like I was playign a video , goign along for the ride and never really having any direct output in anything... from little quests to bigger issues. I play games for things other than real life, where the world of politics and social issues cannot be changed by a peon like myself in the long run, so when I play games , I admit I like playing heroes that " matter" in the story.. I found that lacking in Da2. I didnt hate the game by any means but it could have been better. when in doubt.... blame EA?
On side note I clicked the link for comic by ehri and recived a malicious toolkit virus warning or some such thing { I HAVE no technical knowledge} so beware guys just in case it is a real threat and not just a Nortons percieved one.

[autumnyte]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Hawke, to me is one of the best PC's that Bioware has created. You're not this all-powerful chosen one, you're this person who just so happened to get swept up by the world around you. Also, unlike a certain Commander, Hawke shows a fair bit of emotion over the course of the story.

Right on. That's exactly how I feel.

[MelRedux]

SilentK wrote...

Mel_Redux wrote...

SilentK wrote...
I had the helpless feeling too but that feelt so.... awesome. I remember talking to my husband when I played it blind the first time. Just saying, "I have no idea how to fix this, this can never end well". I really was my poor Hawke at that moment just bumbling through it. Never saw the saltpeter and manure connetion and was in complete chock afterwards. And when Fenris left me in Act 2 I was looking at the scene in complete disbelief. Thought that that was it and went crying to Merrill    =)   I loved it. I can't get the exact same feeling again now that I know the story 2 complete Hawkes later and the 3:rd in Act 2. But I still remember that hopeless feeling of not being in control and just trying to stay above water.

I agree completely.  once you know what is going to happen, and how to manipulate it, it's not as fun!  And emotionally draining!!

Well yes    =)   not so much fun perhaps. But I still love it for the tragedy. Gahh.... I just enjoy hurting myself I guess.  I go  *sniffle*  every time

Oh honey, believe me.  The more awful things that happen to my PC and people she care about, the more I love it.  I love tragic stories, tragic romances, and tragic endings.

Maybe I'm disturbed....

[phyreblade74]

Pseudocognition wrote...

I got the impression he ilves every day like his freedom is a dream and he was preparing to wake up from it. (Among other somewhat contradictory impressions but that's been discussed.) That doesn't seem very hopeful.

Anders is basically manic-depressive and swings between hopeful and hopeless, so neither of them are like shining beacons of optimism. Also Anders is sort of incapable of giving up.

The fact he dreams at all is indicative of his hopes, actually.  If he were hopeless, there would be no dreams, there would be nothing.  I do think his tale of the Fog Warriors and his experience, there, is hugely significant, far more than is often alluded to.  He says, "I looked down at their bodies...I ran."  There was something he realized in that moment, something that took him past the hopelessness of being a slave.  And then he met Hawke.

I just don't see him as broken and despairing, like Anders is.  He grows.  And, yes, he's hoping.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

phyreblade74 wrote...

The fact he dreams at all is indicative of his hopes, actually.  If he were hopeless, there would be no dreams, there would be nothing.  I do think his tale of the Fog Warriors and his experience, there, is hugely significant, far more than is often alluded to.  He says, "I looked down at their bodies...I ran."  There was something he realized in that moment, something that took him past the hopelessness of being a slave.  And then he met Hawke.

I just don't see him as broken and despairing, like Anders is.  He grows.  And, yes, he's hoping.

Well... I was using literal dreams as a metaphor there, basically meaning "he does not settle down/insists that he has no friends/does nothing because he is on some level expecting this freedom to end as it did when he was with the Fog Warriors." Which is an extremely hopeless and cynical attitude.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 21 avril 2011 - 10:10 .

[sushismygen]

Shacary wrote...

when in doubt.... blame EA

I should totally make it my sig!

...but then again...think of all those ridiculous discussions we wouldn't have here if they didn't screw this up  

Modifié par sushismygen, 21 avril 2011 - 10:15 .

[Hekateras]

D'awww.



Source: http://rabbitzoro.de...me fenris&qo=12

[tankgirly]

Hekateras wrote...

D'awww.



Source: http://rabbitzoro.de...me fenris&qo=12

Quick, hide him away from Shale!

This is cute, too.

Modifié par tankgirly, 21 avril 2011 - 10:48 .

[Neria Rose]

^ I am loving both of those!

[Avilia]

I like that Fenris seems self-aware. No matter how much he's going off, if Hawke prods him, he pauses and acknowledges it. He knows he's being emo most of the time.

Even in real life I prefer people who can be aware of themselves in that way. If they're being silly, or overly dramatic or even just too one eyed about something.

That hug picture is what made me think of that - I just did the post-Alone chat. Its interesting that the quest is called Alone and you come in to see if he's alright and what do you find? He's got Varric and Aveline there with him. A nice touch I think.

That's my random Fen-servation for the day.

[Atrilial]

Ok, just gonna throw this out there on the whole Fenris with mage Hawke thing. Being married to a frequently prejudiced man (not to me or anything), I have seen how contradictory people can be in real life. My husband is constantly talking about how he hates all people like this or all people from such-and-such, but as soon as he actually meets someone that falls under one of those catagories and befriends them, they no longer fall under that prejudice to him. It's not to say that his prejudice is gone. Far from. But he has...blinders, I guess, when it comes to people he actually knows. I hope that made sense. All I'm trying to say is, it is absolutely believeable that Fenris is incredibly prejudiced against mages, but once he gets to know Hawke, no longer files her in that catagory. People are frequently contridictory and say things very different from what they actually do.

But yeah, w/e. Those pictures are adorable! Hmm, I think I'll starting writing some Fenfics for this week's prompt.

Modifié par Atrilial, 21 avril 2011 - 11:13 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Hawke, to me is one of the best PC's that Bioware has created. You're not this all-powerful chosen one, you're this person who just so happened to get swept up by the world around you. Also, unlike a certain Commander, Hawke shows a fair bit of emotion over the course of the story.

I agree, but I might not have before re-playing DA:O and DA:A straight through just now and having those fresh in my head now too.  The Warden does come off a little emotionally flat compared to Hawke IMO. I don't know if it's because the voiced Hawke allows him/her to take a more direct role in scenes and actually show more emotion than just facial expression, or if it's something more subtle I haven't sussed out yet. Maybe this is just a bigger kudo to the Hawke VAs - but I definitely think Hawke has more emotional range.  For example, when the Cousland family is massacred, I did choke up a little when Duncan drags the soon-to-be-Warden out of the scullery, and the Warden certainly has his/her moments of emotional connection. However, during All That Remains, when Hawke expressed the range of emotions shown during that quest, I was on edge and emotional/upset the entire time. This far from the only example, but it's the best one I can think of right now.

I think this is also why I love the Fenris romance (and the others) in terms of how Hawke carries her/himself.  The emotional range from the hero is better displayed, I think - which, for me at least, causes greater immersion. 

(There, I was vaguely on-topic. )

[Helen0rz]

 kinda...like this?

by *Abadir

[lizzbee]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Well... I was using literal dreams as a metaphor there, basically meaning "he does not settle down/insists that he has no friends/does nothing because he is on some level expecting this freedom to end as it did when he was with the Fog Warriors." Which is an extremely hopeless and cynical attitude.

Oh, no!  Someone who has been hurt badly has a cynical attitude and that attitude dampens his hopefullness!  Cynicism and hope aren't mutually exclusive.  Often they fight within the same person.  Imagine if Fenris wasn't cynical at all after what he's been through.  You'd be saying, "He's too much of a blase Gary Stu!"  Conflicting, opposing emotions are common in all of us, and a well-written, well-rounded character will reflect that.