55380 réponses à ce sujet

[tankgirly]

Shamelessly riposting my own work

And this (still on topic):



Now, other super talent artist work I've found:



by wh17



by Justabo

Modifié par tankgirly, 21 avril 2011 - 11:29 .

[lizzbee]

Lyrium ghost!

This happened to me last night...  (hope this works)

[Ryzaki]

Helen0rz wrote...

 kinda...like this?

by *Abadir

Oh god that is totally how my Hawke felt at the end of the day. <_<

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

lizzbee wrote...

Oh, no!  Someone who has been hurt badly has a cynical attitude and that attitude dampens his hopefullness!  Cynicism and hope aren't mutually exclusive.  Often they fight within the same person.  Imagine if Fenris wasn't cynical at all after what he's been through.  You'd be saying, "He's too much of a blase Gary Stu!"  Conflicting, opposing emotions are common in all of us, and a well-written, well-rounded character will reflect that.

Did you read what I wrote? I don't mind that he's cynical. Or hopeless. I'm just saying that's what he seems to me as being as opposed to hopeful, optimistic, whatever people are claiming he is. I don't see much hopefullness in him. He's sitting there waiting for... whatever.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 21 avril 2011 - 11:38 .

[Helen0rz]

tankgirly wrote...

 
Shamelessly riposting my own work

[multi snips]

I hope Gid will use your Gid sketch as his profile pics soon!!!

Ryzaki wrote...

Helen0rz wrote...

 kinda...like this?

by *Abadir
[snip snip]

Oh god that is totally how my Hawke felt at the end of the day. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

It's...pretty much how I felt really 
but with facepalm

[silver-crescent]

That comic is pure gold.

[lizzbee]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Did you read what I wrote? I don't mind that he's cynical. Or hopeless. I'm just saying that's what he seems to me as being as opposed to hopeful, optimistic, whatever people are claiming he is.

I think I have you confused with the person who criticizes Fenris for being "too functional."  You both have a lot of orange in your avatars-- apologies.  Re-reading your posts, I'm seeing that you don't believe it's possible for Fenris to have any hope at all because he is cynical, which I find equally strange.  So, these parts still apply:

"Cynicism and hope aren't mutually
exclusive.  Often they fight within the same person.  Conflicting, opposing emotions are common in all of us, and a well-written, well-rounded character will reflect that."

Fenris is, above all, a realist.  He knows what to expect based on experience, but he still does hold out hope for something better.  He may temper his hope and live less than fully optimistically, but if he didn't have that hope, I think he'd just surrender completely to the next batch of slavers who came hunting.

[tankgirly]

by ehri

@helen. I hope so, too. I will make sure taking a screenie when it happened!

[upsettingshorts]

After this discussion I'm getting the impression that Fenris is whatever his fans want him to be.

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 avril 2011 - 11:42 .

[tankgirly]

@Upsettingshorts, now that you mentioned it, neither am I.

[Helen0rz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

After this discussion I'm getting the impression that Fenris is whatever his fans want him to be.

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

*shrugs*

it's no different than Anders fans that likes him even though he blew up the Chantry and betrayed Hawke; they'll like what they wanna like. Plus, your interpretation of Fenris's importance is not the same as everyone else (not saying everybody else's got the same idea), so I guess?

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

After this discussion I'm getting the impression that Fenris is whatever his fans want him to be.

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

Me either.

[autumnyte]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

After this discussion I'm getting the impression that Fenris is whatever his fans want him to be.

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

Isn't that largely the case with any of the characters, though?

[upsettingshorts]

@Helenorz:

That's not what I meant, and the example you posed isn't the same.

For example, one group likes carrot cake. Maybe they're the only ones who like carrot cake. Doesn't matter, they're all fans for one reason or another. The other example is another group collectively liking what's in a box, but with a number of opinions as to what's actually inside.

In this metaphor, Fenris is the object in the box.

autumnyte wrote...

Isn't that largely the case with any of the characters, though?

Not that I've seen.  At least not for Dragon Age 2.  There's a difference between everyone having their own reasons to like something, and everyone not quite in agreement over what that something is.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 21 avril 2011 - 11:54 .

[leggywillow]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

That's not what I meant, and the example you posed isn't the same.

For example, one group likes carrot cake. Maybe they're the only ones who like carrot cake. Doesn't matter, they're all fans for one reason or another. The other example is another group collectively liking what's in a box, but with a number of opinions as to what's actually inside.

In this metaphor, Fenris is the object in the box.

I love you, Shorts.

[mellifera]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

After this discussion I'm getting the impression that Fenris is whatever his fans want him to be.

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing.

Same here.

Maybe that was the point, though? I still feel like I am missing something.

Modifié par yukidama, 21 avril 2011 - 11:55 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

yukidama wrote...

Same here.

Maybe that was the point, though? I still feel like I am missing something.

Could be. Every time I leave this thread thinking I have a better grasp of him and load up DA2 I end up being just as confused as before.

Modifié par Pseudocognition, 21 avril 2011 - 11:57 .

[Helen0rz]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

@Helenorz:

That's not what I meant, and the example you posed isn't the same.

For example, one group likes carrot cake. Maybe they're the only ones who like carrot cake. Doesn't matter, they're all fans for one reason or another. The other example is another group collectively liking what's in a box, but with a number of opinions as to what's actually inside.

In this metaphor, Fenris is the object in the box.

now you're just getting technical 

[Atrilial]

Maybe that just means he's a very complex character?

[Ryzaki]

Or it could mean he was written that way on purpose.

Perfect for me

[Hekateras]

Pseudocognition wrote...

lizzbee wrote...

Oh, no!  Someone who has been hurt badly has a cynical attitude and that attitude dampens his hopefullness!  Cynicism and hope aren't mutually exclusive.  Often they fight within the same person.  Imagine if Fenris wasn't cynical at all after what he's been through.  You'd be saying, "He's too much of a blase Gary Stu!"  Conflicting, opposing emotions are common in all of us, and a well-written, well-rounded character will reflect that.

Did you read what I wrote? I don't mind that he's cynical. Or hopeless. I'm just saying that's what he seems to me as being as opposed to hopeful, optimistic, whatever people are claiming he is. I don't see much hopefullness in him. He's sitting there waiting for... whatever.

No. People are not claiming that he is hopeful and optimistic. People are claiming that he's gotten better at those things in the course of the game. Which he has. Compare "Fenris after the Deep Roads" with him not having much contact with anyone outside of mercenary missions, and "Fenris three years later", who "wouldn't miss" card night with Varric, meets up with Donnic every week, occasionally goes praying at the Chantry and works with Aveline to root out slavers.

By the end of the game, he certainly DOESN'T mope around in his mansion all day, thinking it a dream that could end any moment. He has a life, and lives it.

Modifié par Hekateras, 22 avril 2011 - 12:14 .

[upsettingshorts]

Yes and no. The former is simply due to the fact different people have different preferences, but in some way connect with something solid that they can all relate to.

The latter could be the result of ambiguity, confusion, or subtlety. The difference would reveal itself by asking, "Who is (character)?" versus "What do you like about (character)?"

Having a variety of answers to the first question is really different than having a variety of answers to the second question.

The reason I can't decide if it's good or bad is because if the difference in interpretations is created due to unintentional ambiguity or confusion borne of contradictions, that would - at least to me, be bad. If it is due to some incredible subtlety that I'm missing, though not discounting the possibility of - that'd be good.

But in some sense, it's very possible that it's both. Ambiguity and confusion can be interpreted as subtlety and vice versa.

That he may have been written this way on purpose, or ended up this way by accident I'm not sure. The notion that he is this way has just occurred to me, though, and it may be related to my other issues with his character's role in the story.

[lizzbee]

Atrilial wrote...

Maybe that just means he's a very complex character?

Exactly.  I've been toying with a lot of the conversation options lately, and I'm constantly finding surprises with him.  I think it's a good thing.

[autumnyte]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Not that I've seen.  At least not for Dragon Age 2.  There's a difference between everyone having their own reasons to like something, and everyone not quite in agreement over what that something is.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I'm curious why specifically you feel Fenris is any more open to interpretation or malleable than any of the other companions.

I feel like there are varied fan interpretations of all the characters, and not just on a like-dislike continuum. I'm talking disagreement about even their basic actions and natures.

For instance, some people have opined that Aveline is a condescending wet-blanket, an ineffectual guard captain who is partly to blame for Leandra's death and responsible for helping prod the Arishok into war.  Other fans view her as a highly loyal, trusted friend; a delightful companion who improved the lot of the Kirkwall guard and helped save the city from destruction at the hands of the Qunari. 

I could think of  similar examples for each of the companions. So, how does Fenris differ, in your view?

Modifié par autumnyte, 22 avril 2011 - 12:19 .

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Hekateras wrote...

No. People are not claiming that he is hopeful and optimistic. People are claiming that he's gotten better at those things in the course of the game. Which he has. Compare "Fenris after the Deep Roads" with him not having much contact with anyone outside of mercenary missions, and "Fenris three years later", who "wouldn't miss" card night with Varric, meets up with Donnic every week, occasionally goes praying at the Chantry and works with Aveline to root out slavers.

Yet he claims to have no friends during Alone?