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[Heidenreich]

Ladivixxen wrote...

Good mornin!

Sshhh, we're 'wine-ing'!

[MelRedux]

Heidenreich wrote...

Ladivixxen wrote...

Good mornin!

Sshhh, we're 'wine-ing'!

Funnily enough, I do have a bit of a headache from the wine I drank last night.  Well, hair of the dog, as they say! *drinks*

[tsunderes]

I'm playing DA:O for the first time (i know, should have played it first! but i couldnt find it at any local store for some time, and all my friends were gushing at me about 2)
I just ran into a Templar with Fenris's voice actor and did a double take haha!

Modifié par tsunderes, 22 avril 2011 - 04:16 .

[Hekateras]

I've never drunk alcohol in my life as of yet. Muahaha.

[Heidenreich]

tsunderes wrote...

I'm playing DA:O for the first time (i know, should have played it first! but i couldnt find it at any local store for some time, and all my friends were gushing at me about 2)
I just ran into a Templar with Fenris's voice actor and did a double take haha!

There's at least a half dozen random npc's I've run across that were voiced by Gideon. All different tones, but you can tell its him by the bit of rumble at the VERY END.

Also?




Default Male Hawke --- hanging out side the tavern in lothering to warn you about loghain's guards! Voiced by his VO and everything. I think them bioware boys and girls knew something we didnt!

Modifié par Heidenreich, 22 avril 2011 - 04:24 .

[Maiafay]

sushismygen wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

Ineffable Igor wrote...

So thanks for a few splendidly wasted hours of character analysis, I enjoyed it to no end.

You're welcome--this thread certainly is fun.

It certainly was about 20 pages back. It is not anymore.

This thread was my "happy place" far away from venomous cat fights in other general thread discussions. Not saying it is as bad here cuz obviously everyone stays on cicilized level, but it's still quite annoying. We are all different and see Fenris in our on way. I have nothing against the exchange of varrying opinions but what went on here for some time was not it.

Upsettingshorts...you came here to blow off your frustration or irritation or whatever might have you making Fenris a target. Arguing just for arguments sake. No matter how many of your theories got compromized here, you just went on adding new ones or getting entangled back in old ones. What started as an interesting discussion, turned into walking in circles around a subject that people will never agree on because we are all different and we see things differently.
You said at the start that if there was a thread that dislikes Fenris you would post it there but there wasn't one so you came here instead. Well, hate to break it to you but there is one. Here, I dug it up for you. Why don't you go and share your "love" out there...

Here's the link: http://social.biowar...index/6640187/1

Late, but this ^. I just didn't want to say anything to keep the fire going. I also had trouble keeping my tone civil. The entire discussion seemed pretentious to me.

Nothing anyone can say will convince someone already convinced. And I will suggest sincerely to email David Gaider and present complaints about Fenris's ties to the main plotline, and his infamous lack of "hook" for anyone still questioning why he's in the game.

And I resent the implication that all because someone finds a character "attractive" that reason is eshewed as shallow - therefore cannot be a basis for "liking" a character. It SHOULD be included ALONG with his personality. It's part of the whole package. People are attracted to beauty, subjective as it is. A description in a book of a character, an actor or actress you've never seen before  - beauty always draws the eye "first"  - not the personality. It's not the way human beings are wired. We all have an inherent reaction to what pleases our eyes before anything else. 

And Fenris as a character is more than a pretty face - that was discussed in detail. But dismissing the appeal of his appearance, IMO, is the same as ignoring the facets of his personality.

Modifié par Maiafay, 22 avril 2011 - 04:28 .

[Tasmen]

Personally, I was happy for the discussion and was sorry I was a bit too busy to actively participate in it.  This thread is for discussion about Fenris be it the good or bad, imho.  The title isn't 'Fenris Gush Thread' or 'Fenris:  Bring Squee Here'.

Squee is great and all (I am not immune to a good gush now and again), but 24/7 it gets tiring.  It was nice to see something substantive in this thread rather than just pic spam.

[MelRedux]

I didn't see anyone being dismissive.  And I found the conversation to be thought provoking and I've thought about Fenris in different ways than I have before.
This is the Fenris "Discussion" thread, so if people want to discuss, they may discuss.  If people want to squee, they may squee.  If people want to pick him apart, they may pick him apart. 

If people want to talk about drinking cases of wine with him, they may talk about drinking cases of wine with him.

[Caliyhe]

I don't believe upsettingshorts was hating..just analyzing so that thread isn't very appropriate here.

[Maiafay]

I would have to dig it up (it's like, fifty pages back), but upsettingshorts initial post was a little rude - to me anyway. Comparing Fenris to a Gary Stu. And while lurking, I kept seeing every point anyone made refuted over and over again by Shorts no matter how well constructed or how insightful. To me, that seems dismissive.

[Heidenreich]

Maiafay wrote...

I would have to dig it up (it's like, fifty pages back), but upsettingshorts initial post was a little rude - to me anyway. Comparing Fenris to a Gary Stu. And while lurking, I kept seeing every point anyone made refuted over and over again by Shorts no matter how well constructed or how insightful. To me, that seems dismissive.

He wasn't being dismissive, he was being argumentitive. Even I came in here and called him a troll at first. But, he (or perhaps she, thank you internet) was expressing an opionion and in return gathering the weight of the opinions of others   Being Arugmentitive isn't nessisarly hostile. Its only hostile if you read hostility into it. In fact, the longer the debate went on, the LESS hostile it got. If anything we now have a better apreciation for the character, and some ideas on where we, as fans, would like to see him go in a future title - be it a DLC or the next installment.

I say, more discussions.. and more wine!

*clinks bottles with Mel*<3

Modifié par Heidenreich, 22 avril 2011 - 04:45 .

[Caliyhe]

Perhaps but I never saw the word 'hate' or 'he should die' in any of his posts. So to me, what the above poster said, was rude.

[Lady Jess]

Tasmen wrote...

Personally, I was happy for the discussion and was sorry I was a bit too busy to actively participate in it.  This thread is for discussion about Fenris be it the good or bad, imho.  The title isn't 'Fenris Gush Thread' or 'Fenris:  Bring Squee Here'.

Squee is great and all (I am not immune to a good gush now and again), but 24/7 it gets tiring.  It was nice to see something substantive in this thread rather than just pic spam.

I agree. Thats  what I got frustrated with in the Alistair Gush thread. If a discussion got too discussiony  it was shut down. This is the OFFICIAL Fenris Discussion thread right? Started by Bioware yes? Ahh yes, Chris Priestly. So that means it's open to love, like, neutrality, dislike and even hate. There IS in fact a SQUEE thread someone made JUST for Squeejuicepants and Gushygarters.

[Tasmen]

Maiafay wrote...

I would have to dig it up (it's like, fifty pages back), but upsettingshorts initial post was a little rude - to me anyway. Comparing Fenris to a Gary Stu. And while lurking, I kept seeing every point anyone made refuted over and over again by Shorts no matter how well constructed or how insightful. To me, that seems dismissive.

See, I didn't read it as rude.  I read it as Upsetting's opinion on the subject.  The joys of text on the internet, we lose intent.

I saw a couple times where Upsetting did concede points or at least said something was essentially food for thought.  I did not see Upsettingshorts as being purposefully antagonistic.

[Maiafay]

Caliyhe wrote...

Perhaps but I never saw the word 'hate' or 'he should die' in any of his posts. So to me, what the above poster said, was rude.

You don't have to say those things to convey irritation or frustration. I can understand what the above poster stated because I felt it while lurking on the conversation. Nothing could convince him or change his "disappointment" in the character.

Which is fine.

But viewing the exchange, I couldn't help but feel it just ran in endless circles. Yes, some great material was discussed, but in the end, no one made headway. I guess that's what my real problem is. Nothing seemed resolved, no "hmm, maybe Fenris does have value other than a side character". 

It just seemed (to me) that Fenris fans were scrutinized then blown off when nothing said satisfied Short's questions.

Just being honest.

[Sinilin_]

Tasmen wrote...

Maiafay wrote...

I would have to dig it up (it's like, fifty pages back), but upsettingshorts initial post was a little rude - to me anyway. Comparing Fenris to a Gary Stu. And while lurking, I kept seeing every point anyone made refuted over and over again by Shorts no matter how well constructed or how insightful. To me, that seems dismissive.

See, I didn't read it as rude.  I read it as Upsetting's opinion on the subject.  The joys of text on the internet, we lose intent.

I saw a couple times where Upsetting did concede points or at least said something was essentially food for thought.  I did not see Upsettingshorts as being purposefully antagonistic.

 

I didn't take part in the discussion but I did follow it through and I didn't see Upsetting being rude either. Upsetting was just discussing and expressing opinions. I don't remember who said it but "there is no right or wrong, only two different viewpoints". I personally enjoyed the discussion because it gave me a lot of new ideas about Fenris' character.  

Modifié par Sinilin , 22 avril 2011 - 05:01 .

[Heidenreich]

Caliyhe wrote...



But viewing the exchange, I couldn't help but feel it just ran in endless circles. Yes, some great material was discussed, but in the end, no one made headway. I guess that's what my real problem is. Nothing seemed resolved, no "hmm, maybe Fenris does have value other than a side character". 



Just being honest.

So your issue isn't that noting was resolved, but that he didn't change his opinion to suite yours? Fenris really -didn't- have much a role outside of a side character. He brought a different view-point to the debate, but wasn't invaluable to the storyline. Not to say that I didn't find his imput and presence worthwhile. I love Fenris. But, would the story have changed much had he not been there? Anders still would have blown up the chantry, Isabela still would have stolen the Tome of Koslun, your mother still would have died, you would have still gone on the deep roads expedition..

So, again, is the issue that there was no headway in the discussion.. or that the general concencess didn't fit with what you believed to be right? ;p

[Helen0rz]

I have to go with what heindenreich said about the discussion because less hostile after many pages later. Like maiafay said, upsettingshorts came out a bit hostile but it was not so afterwards. What he wanted, IMHO (which I'm sure he'll/she'll reply to these), was an answer to something none of us could answer. We're not DG or are we Bioware writers; we can speculate and assume things, but that's just our opinions, simple as that. I cant emphasize enough about how we all look at things different and approach things differently as well, so with Fenris we're not going to agree on everything. There's not enough information for us to really said 'Fenris is this and that', but we can assume based on what was given. I like discussions because it does gives me other people's interpretation and something to think about; what I dont like is argueing. If upsettingshorts is going to shred people's interpretation apart, by all means he/she are welcome to do that, but that doesn't means I'm going to 'argue' back because I don't see a point in it, there are already great arguments out here worded wonderfully by others such as Hekateras anyway.

After all this is a discussion thread, discuss

[Maiafay]

Sinilin wrote...

Tasmen wrote...

Maiafay wrote...

I would have to dig it up (it's like, fifty pages back), but upsettingshorts initial post was a little rude - to me anyway. Comparing Fenris to a Gary Stu. And while lurking, I kept seeing every point anyone made refuted over and over again by Shorts no matter how well constructed or how insightful. To me, that seems dismissive.

See, I didn't read it as rude.  I read it as Upsetting's opinion on the subject.  The joys of text on the internet, we lose intent.

I saw a couple times where Upsetting did concede points or at least said something was essentially food for thought.  I did not see Upsettingshorts as being purposefully antagonistic.

 

I didn't take part in the discussion but I did followed it through and I didn't see Upsetting being rude either. Upsetting was just discussing and expressing opinions. I don't remember who said it but "there is no right or wrong, only two different viewpoints". I personally enjoyed the discussion because it gave me a lot of new ideas about Fenris' character.  

I saw it as a debate...but somehow trying to convince the one who initiated it that he shouldn't be disappointed by what he was disappointed by. LOL. If that makes sense.

Yes, I was quite happy with the side results, the intense analysis of Fenris's character. I did appreciate that. But I feel Shorts didn't walk away with anything resolved. What everyone said wasn't "good" enough for him. Debates like that frustrate me in RL - which is why I don't get involved in them. I'm always trying to convince the other side I'm right.

Meh, as Fenris would say. Ignore me. I'll get over it. 

Modifié par Maiafay, 22 avril 2011 - 05:10 .

[Evindell]

Helen0rz wrote...

I have to go with what heindenreich said about the discussion because less hostile after many pages later. Like maiafay said, upsettingshorts came out a bit hostile but it was not so afterwards. What he wanted, IMHO (which I'm sure he'll/she'll reply to these), was an answer to something none of us could answer. We're not DG or are we Bioware writers; we can speculate and assume things, but that's just our opinions, simple as that. I cant emphasize enough about how we all look at things different and approach things differently as well, so with Fenris we're not going to agree on everything. There's not enough information for us to really said 'Fenris is this and that', but we can assume based on what was given. I like discussions because it does gives me other people's interpretation and something to think about; what I dont like is argueing. If upsettingshorts is going to shred people's interpretation apart, by all means he/she are welcome to do that, but that doesn't means I'm going to 'argue' back because I don't see a point in it, there are already great arguments out here worded wonderfully by others such as Hekateras anyway.

After all this is a discussion thread, discuss

The only part of the whole debate (and I use the word debate because it was very civil, and not at all an argument) was how it was started. The initial comment Upsettingshorts made struck me as very...I don't want to say hateful or antagonistic, but I guess rude would do well enough. People were discussing the whole "no shirtless Fenris thing" and he made a comment, which I can't remember right now. All I remember was it made me raise an eyebrow. Personally, I feel like he did it to grab our attention so that we could have a debate, otherwise his wish for a debate might have been lost in the general squeeing.

I do have to say, though, that there at the very end of the debate it did seem to become pointless. Not because no one could change his mind (he has every right to dislike Fenris, debate it, and still keep his opinion), but because no one would be able to give him the answer he wanted. So it was a pointless circle. He brought up valid points, people countered. He did the same. And on and on it went. I believe he even said at one point that only DG would truly be able to answer his question sufficiently.

Still, even when I thought it became pointless, I loved reading it. It was a very nice change of pace. I didn't participate because I suck at debating over the internet. In person, I'm great at it...not so much on forums and such.


Edit: I found it, and I still wouldn't even call it rude...it just seemed to come out of nowhere. Here it is:

{{If it were me making demands on how to improve Fenris, I'd start with
doing a better job integrating him into the actual plot of the game, not
improving my ability to ogle his digital nakedness.

Also I'd get
rid of the Gary Stu-ish weird character traits, like being an eloquent
illiterate, or having his memory loss disappear briefly for the sole
purpose of extending sexual tension.  But that's probably just me.}}

Back on page 1534, at the very, very bottom. It seemed to be made to get a rise out of the thread.

Modifié par Evindell, 22 avril 2011 - 05:17 .

[Maiafay]

@Heidenreich

Both pretty much. But not quite I'm RIGHT and you're WRONG. It was more of the implication that if Fenris had no ties to the main plotline, he was somehow diminished in Short's eyes. I'm probably projecting, but that's the vibe I got.

Modifié par Maiafay, 22 avril 2011 - 05:15 .

[Heidenreich]

Maiafay wrote...

@Heidenreich

Yes, pretty much. But not quite I'm RIGHT and you're WRONG. It was more of the implication that if Fenris had no ties to the main plotline, he was somehow diminished in Short's eyes. I'm probably projecting, but that's the vibe I got.

I can understand that  It might be that he WAS, because Short was hoping us hopeless love slaevs of fen could shead some light, and none of us can


The love of Fenris, it flows from places unknown. <3

[Tasmen]

Heidenreich wrote...


The love of Fenris, it flows from places unknown. <3

Or our vaginas....

[Cutlasskiwi]

But aren't a lot of the discussions about the followers speculation? I don't think it had anything to do with trying to convince someone to adopt their personal view on Fenris, in fact I think this was pointed out. For me it's another way to look at the character and see how other people interpreted him. Some food for thoughts in other words since it's unlikely that David will come here and explain every little detail about Fenris.

Fenris is a favorite of mine but I still wish he had been more tied to the main plot in some way. For me it felt like he got the short stick and it made him a harder character to figure out - in position to the story and Hawke's life. (If that makes any sense at all.) It feels like everyone else has clear roles to play might be a better way of putting it.

[Ryzaki]

I'm happy he wasn't connected to the plot. If he had also been the case of a source of annoyance for my Hawke it would've soured my impression of the character.