55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr. Doctor]

Sometimes, Fandom can be funny, other times it can send a grown man running for the hills. This is an example of the latter.

[tigrina]

Don't forget your binoculars.

[Madame Rose Crimsynn]

Heidenreich wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Madame Rose Crimsynn wrote...

@ipgd

Err... may I ask you a really quick stupid question and be totally off-topic?

What the hell is that as your avatar? It's sorta... creepy. And hilarious. And creepy. And still hilarious.

Just a man on a mission. A mission to show Kirkwall the real meaning of fabulous.

Meredanders!


The anders thread, it's.. intresting

O_o

Meredanders? 

...

When did the Spacetime Continuum get broken long enough for them to merge into one being without the world blowing up?

[Hekateras]

A wizard did it.

[Heidenreich]

Madame Rose Crimsynn wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Madame Rose Crimsynn wrote...

@ipgd

Err... may I ask you a really quick stupid question and be totally off-topic?

What the hell is that as your avatar? It's sorta... creepy. And hilarious. And creepy. And still hilarious.

Just a man on a mission. A mission to show Kirkwall the real meaning of fabulous.

Meredanders!


The anders thread, it's.. intresting

O_o

Meredanders? 

...

When did the Spacetime Continuum get broken long enough for them to merge into one being without the world blowing up?

Well, TECHNICALLY the world did blow up..


Well, the chantry anyways^_^

Modifié par Heidenreich, 23 avril 2011 - 10:01 .

[lizzbee]

Maiafay wrote...

I really liked this. I left you a review on FFnet. Nice work  

Thanks for the detailed review!  I hadn't realized the sharp divide where I scrawled stuff out by hand and hacked away on the keyboard until I looked it over a bit.  It needs a lot of tweaking, alas.  The blank Word page did far too much mocking this time around, and it shows.  I'm also tempted on the FF.net version to allow my more extended Varric banter to actually show up.  I hadn't realized I'd unconsciously censored myself so much for this thread

[lizzbee]

ipgd wrote...
Oh, Fenris more than makes up for it later :innocent:

Fenris: I seem to recall you saying something a while ago...
Anders: Shut up.
Fenris: "I can control it." Wasn't that what you said?
Anders: So help me...

Heh, that's one of my favorite banters in the game.

[lizzbee]

Hekateras wrote...

Is anyone else really ticked that the party banters in DA2 (and Awakening, really) are usually so bloody short? I mean, in Origins, they'd have actual conversations - most importantly, conversations that felt finished, like that was it, and the people didn't say anything in the next few minutes after that. In DA2, they're either short (four lines? FOUR LINES?) and/or they break off at moments when one would expect more lines to come. Like excerpts, really. Which, I suppose, can be handwaved as Hawke only overhearing parts of the conversation, but still frustrating...

YES!  Then again, most DA2 full conversations are like that too, unless you do the "Investigate" options, in which case the entire full convo totally loses its flow.  I have to say, one of the things I appreciate most about Fenris' convos is that he guides you back to the main subject once you've investigated.  Gaider seems to be the only writer who acknowledged that "Investigating" could be a real problem.

[UrsulaCousland]

lizzbee wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Oh, Fenris more than makes up for it later :innocent:

Fenris: I seem to recall you saying something a while ago...
Anders: Shut up.
Fenris: "I can control it." Wasn't that what you said?
Anders: So help me...

Heh, that's one of my favorite banters in the game.

+1 - another laugh-out-loud and want-to-high-five Fenris moment...

Edit-ugh, grammar fail.

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 23 avril 2011 - 11:48 .

[tsunderes]

lizzbee wrote...

Hekateras wrote...

Is anyone else really ticked that the party banters in DA2 (and Awakening, really) are usually so bloody short? I mean, in Origins, they'd have actual conversations - most importantly, conversations that felt finished, like that was it, and the people didn't say anything in the next few minutes after that. In DA2, they're either short (four lines? FOUR LINES?) and/or they break off at moments when one would expect more lines to come. Like excerpts, really. Which, I suppose, can be handwaved as Hawke only overhearing parts of the conversation, but still frustrating...

YES!  Then again, most DA2 full conversations are like that too, unless you do the "Investigate" options, in which case the entire full convo totally loses its flow.  I have to say, one of the things I appreciate most about Fenris' convos is that he guides you back to the main subject once you've investigated.  Gaider seems to be the only writer who acknowledged that "Investigating" could be a real problem.

I really appreciate this too. One of the things that bothered me most when investigating was how off-topic we would get, and then the original conversation wouldn't make as much sense. Honestly, playing origins now makes me really wish 2 was as in-depth in conversation (and as frequent) I feel i know the characters better than i did in the 7 year span of 2 already and I'm barely through a quarter of the game. Being able to converse whenever you feel like it is so much nicer than only having designated moments.

[tsunderes]

lizzbee wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Oh, Fenris more than makes up for it later :innocent:

Fenris: I seem to recall you saying something a while ago...
Anders: Shut up.
Fenris: "I can control it." Wasn't that what you said?
Anders: So help me...

Heh, that's one of my favorite banters in the game.

Still, I don't find that banter nearly as rude as some of the things Anders says to Fenris. The ever thought of killing yourself line made me wish that I could have Hawke turn around and smack him with Avelines "don't" sign. Same with when he tells Fenris he was just jealous of his sister. I mean come on....

[autumnyte]

I personally thought that Anders and Fenris were fairly evenly matched in terms of saying mean crap to each other.

tsunderes wrote...

lizzbee wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Oh, Fenris more than makes up for it later :innocent:

Fenris: I seem to recall you saying something a while ago...
Anders: Shut up.
Fenris: "I can control it." Wasn't that what you said?
Anders: So help me...

Heh, that's one of my favorite banters in the game.

Still, I don't find that banter nearly as rude as some of the things Anders says to Fenris. The ever thought of killing yourself line made me wish that I could have Hawke turn around and smack him with Avelines "don't" sign. Same with when he tells Fenris he was just jealous of his sister. I mean come on....

Funny, I didn't take that particular banter as rude. I saw it as Anders trying to find common ground with Fenris, or at least trying to understand him better. I got the distinct impression Anders himself had contemplated suicide (or was contemplating it) in the face of his own experiences.

However, some of the other banters were plenty ****y, for sure - like the one where Anders says Fenris doesn't have the temperament for a slave and wonders why Danarius didn't kill him.

[lizzbee]

tsunderes wrote...

Still, I don't find that banter nearly as rude as some of the things Anders says to Fenris. The ever thought of killing yourself line made me wish that I could have Hawke turn around and smack him with Avelines "don't" sign. Same with when he tells Fenris he was just jealous of his sister. I mean come on....

No, it isn't what I'd actually call rude or mean.  More of an "I told you so" moment, and a not-so-gentle call-out for what could have been (or actually been) a real disaster.  Anders, on the other hand, is almost always complete out-of-line ass to Fenris.  Constantly.  Not that I adore him any less for it

[UrsulaCousland]

tsunderes wrote...

lizzbee wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Oh, Fenris more than makes up for it later :innocent:

Fenris: I seem to recall you saying something a while ago...
Anders: Shut up.
Fenris: "I can control it." Wasn't that what you said?
Anders: So help me...

Heh, that's one of my favorite banters in the game.

Still, I don't find that banter nearly as rude as some of the things Anders says to Fenris. The ever thought of killing yourself line made me wish that I could have Hawke turn around and smack him with Avelines "don't" sign. Same with when he tells Fenris he was just jealous of his sister. I mean come on....

Yeah...this may be my biases coming through, but I think Anders' banters are some of the nastiest/most mean-spirited in the game. Given that he's a healer, and you'd think compassion and empathy would be part of that, I find it all the more grating when he pulls stunts like this. I still want my "Smack Anders/Merrill upside the head" button. :innocent:

(Note: Tried to duplicate my current PT Hawke, who is my favorite in appearance of my characters so far, on the DA:O character creater for my new avatar. It doesn't look *quite* as good, but... *I* can't help but be happy with it. )

[ipgd]

tsunderes wrote...

Still, I don't find that banter nearly as rude as some of the things Anders says to Fenris. The ever thought of killing yourself line made me wish that I could have Hawke turn around and smack him with Avelines "don't" sign. Same with when he tells Fenris he was just jealous of his sister. I mean come on....

... That was probably one of his more innocent exchanges with Fenris, considering he was basically talking about himself there

lizzbee wrote...

No, it isn't what I'd actually call
rude or mean.  More of an "I told you so" moment, and a not-so-gentle
call-out for what could have been (or actually been) a real disaster. 
Anders, on the other hand, is almost always complete out-of-line ass to
Fenris.  Constantly.  Not that I adore him any less for it [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

Fenris's tone there is waaaay too smug to not fall into the "out-of-line ass" category. Anders instigates, but they're both pretty awful to each other.

Modifié par ipgd, 24 avril 2011 - 12:13 .

[lizzbee]

ipgd wrote...

Fenris's tone there is waaaay too smug to not fall into the "out-of-line ass" category. Anders instigates, but they're both pretty awful to each other.

Oh, I'm not disputing the awfulness between the two.  It's one of the reasons they're both almost constantly in my party.  "I told you so's" usually are pretty damned smug, FWIW.

[tsunderes]

autumnyte wrote...

I personally thought that Anders and Fenris were fairly evenly matched in terms of saying mean crap to each other.

tsunderes wrote...

lizzbee wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Oh, Fenris more than makes up for it later :innocent:

Fenris: I seem to recall you saying something a while ago...
Anders: Shut up.
Fenris: "I can control it." Wasn't that what you said?
Anders: So help me...

Heh, that's one of my favorite banters in the game.

Still, I don't find that banter nearly as rude as some of the things Anders says to Fenris. The ever thought of killing yourself line made me wish that I could have Hawke turn around and smack him with Avelines "don't" sign. Same with when he tells Fenris he was just jealous of his sister. I mean come on....

Funny, I didn't take that particular banter as rude. I saw it as Anders trying to find common ground with Fenris, or at least trying to understand him better. I got the distinct impression Anders himself had contemplated suicide (or was contemplating it) in the face of his own experiences.

However, some of the other banters were plenty ****y, for sure - like the one where Anders says Fenris doesn't have the temperament for a slave and wonders why Danarius didn't kill him.

Maybe, but even so it's not something you really ask someone, especially if you're not close. especially especially if they kinda really don't like you. It just always struck me as out of line.

[tsunderes]

UrsulaCousland wrote...

tsunderes wrote...

lizzbee wrote...

ipgd wrote...
Oh, Fenris more than makes up for it later :innocent:

Fenris: I seem to recall you saying something a while ago...
Anders: Shut up.
Fenris: "I can control it." Wasn't that what you said?
Anders: So help me...

Heh, that's one of my favorite banters in the game.

Still, I don't find that banter nearly as rude as some of the things Anders says to Fenris. The ever thought of killing yourself line made me wish that I could have Hawke turn around and smack him with Avelines "don't" sign. Same with when he tells Fenris he was just jealous of his sister. I mean come on....

Yeah...this may be my biases coming through, but I think Anders' banters are some of the nastiest/most mean-spirited in the game. Given that he's a healer, and you'd think compassion and empathy would be part of that, I find it all the more grating when he pulls stunts like this. I still want my "Smack Anders/Merrill upside the head" button. :innocent:

(Note: Tried to duplicate my current PT Hawke, who is my favorite in appearance of my characters so far, on the DA:O character creater for my new avatar. It doesn't look *quite* as good, but... *I* can't help but be happy with it. )

OT but I can't get my avatar to upload (even though im logged in on the creator server) :<

[Riona45]

UrsulaCousland wrote...
Yeah...this may be my biases coming through, but I think Anders' banters are some of the nastiest/most mean-spirited in the game.

It is surprising how much he's changed.  And that's coming someone who enjoyed him in Awakening and likes him still (though I don't quite adore him).

[ipgd]

tsunderes wrote...

Maybe, but even so it's not something you really ask someone, especially if you're not close. especially especially if they kinda really don't like you. It just always struck me as out of line.

Fenris is the only other person in the group that's been through something he probably thinks suicide worthy. It's actually pretty much the only banter they have where they aren't at each other's throats, which is funny and a little sad.

[Tanathir]

I missed another multi-page debate.  ****.  My brother and I went to the local farmer's market this morning!  You guys clearly need to halt your discussions so I can have real life time.  Obviously.  How dare you all have amazing discussions without me.  (How's that for sarcastic tone showing in text?)



I agree with lizzbee's assessment of Fenris's progression through each of the three acts.  Fenris came with a bunch of baggage and preconceptions because of his experience with magisters and magic.  He seems to be warring within himself about it.  He is trying to change, as an intelligent and rational person would, but he still has a temper and some deep-seated bigotry.  Just because he doesn't fully change does not make him any less.  Well-developed characters don't always drop their negative qualities by the end of a work of fiction.

I also agree with whoever said that there is nothing wrong with liking Fenris for him being attractive.  We humans are wired that way.  Do we forgive pretty people more because they are pretty?  Probably.  But again, Fenris is more than a pretty face or emo anime-inspired fangirl bait.  I think one big reason why we are able to have these 20-page discussions about his character is that he is enough of a deeper character and we respond to him as though he was real.  Humans do that too; we react to fictional characters as though they are real.

Let's break down the word prejudice.  PRE JUDGE.  That's how I define prejudice.  It is pre-judging a person/group/etc based on certain beliefs or qualities.  Fenris pre judges mages as potentially dangerous based on his experience of them being dangerous.  He does lump them all together.  But he has enough of a rational mind to begin seeing individual mages as individuals. 

Let me list:

Danarius: has really formed Fenris's opinions of what mages are capable of, as apparently most Tevinter magisters have.  Uses blood magic, owns slaves, has inflicted enormous pain on Fenris, and is generally vicious.  Fenris is justified in his anger, hate, and prejudice against the Danarius archetype.

Hadriana: is vicious and ruthless like Danarius.  Has in Fenris's own words mistreated him.  It is reasonable that Fenris despises her and those who behave like her.

Anders: acts like an ass to Fenris, talks like an obsessed fanatic, is possessed by a spirit.  I think it would be reasonable for Fenris to respond negatively and angrily to that.

Merrill: performs blood magic, behaves ignorantly, gets herself into a mess with the mirror and Marethari.  I think it would be reasonable for Fenris to have his knee-jerk reaction and suspicion of her.

Those are just the four mages Fenris has had long-term, daily interaction with.  If Hawke is a mage, s/he may cause Fenris to change his preconceived views.  Bethany may also serve to change those views.  Fenris tries to change his thinking, but based on his personal history, he has little cause to think mages aren't exactly what he claims they are.

I don't want to make even more wall o' text, so I'll stop for now.

[upsettingshorts]

Tanathir wrote...

 I think one big reason why we are able to have these 20-page discussions about his character is that he is enough of a deeper character and we respond to him as though he was real. 

Not to put too much stock in my own influence, but as more or less the primary instigator of at least one of those, I feel like pointing out that wasn't my reason. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 24 avril 2011 - 01:42 .

[Dr. Doctor]

Prompt time.

Return

Starkhaven

Sebastian: I am surprised that you took me up on my offer. When I last brought up the idea of working together, you were...less than receptive.

Fenris: Four years ago I hadn't planned on facing Danarius. Or having rubble raining down upon my home. Such things tend to put a damper on one's plans.

Sebastian: Whatever the reason, its good to have you here. Reclaiming my family's holdings has been more difficult than I imagined.

Fenris: If the years I spent in Danarius' service taught me one thing it is that once someone holds power it is rather difficult to take it back.

Sebastian: We will find a way to take it back Fenris. The Maker is smiling down upon us, with His blessing we will raise an army that will restore Starkhaven to its former glory.

Fenris: I certainly hope that the Maker isn't smiling down upon us.

Sebastian: Might I ask why?

Fenris: The last time that the Maker looked down upon me He decided to drop Andraste's flaming bronze head into
my wine cellar. (Sebastian starts laughing) I am not joking.

[ipgd]

I don't think anyone was ever arguing that Fenris doesn't have reasons to be prejudiced or that he should have completely moved past his prejudice. There were some people arguing that Fenris wasn't prejudiced at all -- and that was mainly what I was responding to, because I found that his prejudice towards mages was one of the few things I personally found interesting about him. As I said before, there seems to be a focus on defending his value as a person as opposed to, or even possibly to the detriment of, his value as a character.

[MelRedux]

NOoooooo!!!! Not the WINE!!! Damn you Maker.....DAMN YOU!!!!! *shakes fist*