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[Dr. Doctor]

The thing about the Anders romance is that it brings out one of Hawke's weaknesses. Regardless of personallity Hawke has a hard time saying no to people. He/she is quick to help out those in need, and can easily be coerced into helping. (Yes I get that some quests force you to help because they are essential to the plot)

Anders to me takes advantage of this. The love scene culminates with "I love you, can I move in? The Templars are about to arrest me." It makes me feel like the only reason he has any interest at all in Hawke is because of what he/she can do for him.

The 'Justice' quest is what really gets me because if you decline to help Anders goes off on you for "Only caring about mage's rights on paper" and how you don't support him. Hawke cares about Anders enough to protect him from the Templars for years and when he/she wants to know why Anders is being evaisive about the bomb he/she gets treated like nothing happened between them.

Apologies to those who enjoy the Anders romance, I mean no disrespect.

[Shacary]

Ya, I have so much trouble with the Anders behavior and dialog. I really did want to romance him in DAA, but in da2 I was so turned off. I mean it smacked of unrealism [ cheesy lines, flirts right after he killed his lover Karl??!!!] and despert emotional plays. Personally It made my emotions feel like a sponge being wrung out. I couldnt do it. Closest I managed to get to romancing him was the fenris breakup and then he said that infamous line about Fenris being akin to a wild dog.... well My LadyHawke wanted to reply that aniamls dont tend to have an agenda. they like you or they dont, no manipulation [ ok ok treats aside teehee] like Anders seemd to have goign on. I use the phrase to much I guess... but poor ANders went from a fun loving/easy going jokester to a despert, conniving junkie type.
No offense to anyone's choices. It is the diversity of our choices that make life so wonderful!

[tankgirly]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

The thing about the Anders romance is that it brings out one of Hawke's weaknesses. Regardless of personallity Hawke has a hard time saying no to people. He/she is quick to help out those in need, and can easily be coerced into helping. (Yes I get that some quests force you to help because they are essential to the plot)

Anders to me takes advantage of this. The love scene culminates with "I love you, can I move in? The Templars are about to arrest me." It makes me feel like the only reason he has any interest at all in Hawke is because of what he/she can do for him.

The 'Justice' quest is what really gets me because if you decline to help Anders goes off on you for "Only caring about mage's rights on paper" and how you don't support him. Hawke cares about Anders enough to protect him from the Templars for years and when he/she wants to know why Anders is being evaisive about the bomb he/she gets treated like nothing happened between them.

Apologies to those who enjoy the Anders romance, I mean no disrespect.

Totally unrelated, Dr. Doctor. But I suddenly think we should have an cat DLC...

[Arquen]

Did I click on the wrong thread? LOL, I think a similar discussion was going down in the Anders thread not to long ago.

At Shacry that's exactly how I feel about the Varania situation as well. Also, my Hawke's always tend to have some rage issues and so when Anders goes on about Fenris being a wild dog, blah blah blah my Hawke just sees red and goes GTFO you damn hypocritical bastard. I must be one of the only ones who doesn't feel like Anders is using Hawke on purpose, but he definitely ends up hurting him/her in the long run by having ulterior motives.

One of the things I love about Fenris is his bluntness and pure honesty. Seriously I love how he just says what he is thinking even angrily and then goes sorry for offending or sounding ungrateful. I may be one of the only people who actually likes that though, LOL. His sincerity after his outbursts is often missed by most people I think. Just goes to show how much he keeps hidden under the surface. He can be so blunt, and yet so polite all at once. I love it.

[autumnyte]

Arquen wrote...

One of the things I love about Fenris is his bluntness and pure honesty. Seriously I love how he just says what he is thinking even angrily and then goes sorry for offending or sounding ungrateful. I may be one of the only people who actually likes that though, LOL. His sincerity after his outbursts is often missed by most people I think. Just goes to show how much he keeps hidden under the surface. He can be so blunt, and yet so polite all at once. I love it.

Yep, that's actually one of my favorite things about Fenris! And why I tend to prefer the rivalry path with him, because he is even more blunt.

He has a short fuse, but he does apologize and own up to his faults as well. He can be tactless one moment, then turn around and demonstrate a depth of emotional intelligence. 

He's an interesting bundle of contradictions, which strikes me as very real.

[tankgirly]

Arquen wrote...

One of the things I love about Fenris is his bluntness and pure honesty. Seriously I love how he just says what he is thinking even angrily and then goes sorry for offending or sounding ungrateful. I may be one of the only people who actually likes that though, LOL. His sincerity after his outbursts is often missed by most people I think. Just goes to show how much he keeps hidden under the surface. He can be so blunt, and yet so polite all at once. I love it.

It's part of his charm. He also never question where you come from or what social ladder you are in. Most of the time he kept everything to himself as much as possible. I like that, too.

Don't get me wrong, I also like Anders, but Fenris...he's entirely different dimension. :wub:

[LT123]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

The thing about the Anders romance is that it brings out one of Hawke's weaknesses. Regardless of personallity Hawke has a hard time saying no to people. He/she is quick to help out those in need, and can easily be coerced into helping. (Yes I get that some quests force you to help because they are essential to the plot)

Anders to me takes advantage of this. The love scene culminates with "I love you, can I move in? The Templars are about to arrest me." It makes me feel like the only reason he has any interest at all in Hawke is because of what he/she can do for him.

The 'Justice' quest is what really gets me because if you decline to help Anders goes off on you for "Only caring about mage's rights on paper" and how you don't support him. Hawke cares about Anders enough to protect him from the Templars for years and when he/she wants to know why Anders is being evaisive about the bomb he/she gets treated like nothing happened between them.

Apologies to those who enjoy the Anders romance, I mean no disrespect.

About the "I love you, can I move it" bit: he sees himself and Hawke as being in a committed relationship at this point. Hawke has ignored or rejected all of Anders' warnings and accepted him. Sarcastic Hawke can respond with the deer-in-the-headlights-oh-no-committment "Way to kill the romance" (investigate "You want to move in?" option) Anders points out that by moving in Hawke won't have to step over the drunks in Darktown everytime she/he wants to visit.

Hawke reacts the same way in Merrill's romance, only in that one it's "I love you; why don't you move in?" with a side of "Lol, scandalizing the neighbors with my Dalish lover." Same train of logic-we're together now, so why don't you just move into my estate because it's better and safer than living in the clinic with templars watching you/nicer than your house in the alienage.

I haven't played Isabela's romance, so I have no idea how she reacts. Fenris doesn't move in to Hawke's estate because he a) leaves after (understandably) freaking out because he's just regained his memories than lost them again and three years later, still has his own reasons for not wanting to move in.

And yeah, the Justice quest bit is definitely emotional manipulation. If you're in a rivalry romance with Anders, you can have it out in an argument about this during his last Questioning Beliefs quest. He's deliberately distancing himself from Hawke to a) protect him/her from knowing about his plans (as he says while sitting on his box of shame) and because he doesn't think he'll live past the Chantry bombing (hence the pillow scene with Varric).

Sorry for any derailing, and no offense taken.  And so this post isn't all about Anders: I like Fenris and had a great time rivalmancing him with my warrior Hawke. He also got one of my favorite pieces of music in the game as his theme song, which is awesome. Gideon Emery's voice is gorgeous.

[tankgirly]

LT123 wrote...

Gideon Emery's voice is gorgeous.

It is indeed. :wub::wub::wub:

[Shacary]

@ Arquen I agree. Im not sure if Anders is inadvertantly using Hawke or if he is mb Knowingly doing so. I Just have resigned myself to never ge thte achievement for the romance. Heck If I hadnt done the merrill romance First PT , and I discovered Fenris, I prolly wouldnt haev gotten hers either.
I think Fenris is blunt but honest. I prefer the friendmance to rivalmance but both are preferable over the other LIS imo. I think he is as equally honest in friendmance but it is not stated perhaps so vehemently . He might have sought safety in numbers but again he is way up front honest about that possiblity too. I wanted to like Anders.... but I couldnt romance him to many red flags for me.

[ReiSilver]

I was actually thinking earlier that when it comes to Fenris vs Anders as LIs for me Fenris wins out by a mile every time, DA2 Anders just isn't as appealing in personality to me and the 'this is the skin of a killer' vibe killed it for me. However if Anders still had his Awakening personality my SarcasticHawke just wouldn't know who to pick between him and Fenris! The hurricane of jokes and teasing would have been mind-blowing, that's for sure. And that's one of the things that really gets me, Fenris seems more likely to laugh and snark along with Silly Hawke then Anders.... "I'm fond of the Howes, the Whos the Whys and the Whats" ANDERS
On the other hand Jealous Anders is something I love for the sake of drama, I do buy into the theory that Anders loves Hawke even if you don't romance him, hence his 'relationship advice' dialogue... maybe I just like torturing DA2 version of him *whistles innocently*

Plus Fenris growls at you with "Festis bei umo canavarum" when you rivalmance him, how could anyone compete with that? XP

[Tealsie]

It's a little odd seeing two sides to the same subject carry on in two different threads at the same time.

I do have to agree with some of what's being said against Anders. Whenever one of those situations comes up(mostly the "you can't care for me and despise what I stand for!" and the whole ending craziness), I hear Obi-Wan Kenobi saying "Only a Sith deals in absolutes".  

It would nice if we get something in dlc/expansions to show the time inbetween Fenris walking out, and act 3. Something to show that there were still feelings there, so it's not like he completely left. or something.  The only issue I have with Fenmance: that damned 3 year wait.

[ReiSilver]

Tealsie wrote...
The only issue I have with Fenmance: that damned 3 year wait.

I imagined there was a lot of angsty drinking, tearful confiding in friends and a few things he's not proud of happening during that time with Marric Hawke

There's also this wonderful slightly NSFW picture by Aimo that shows a bit of aftermath with Akiva Hawke "there there Sweet Thing, tell Izzy allll about it"

[Dr. Doctor]

I like the Merrill rivalmance. Hawke isn't preventing her from rebuilding the Eluvian just to be a jerk he/she cares about Merrill and doesn't want to see her hurt.

And while I know how Fenris feels about mages he can be a real jerk to poor Merrill.

Post- "A New Path"

Hawke: Did you really have to do that?

Fenris: Do what?

Hawke: Yell at Merrill like that. The girl just lost someone she cared about and was exiled from the only family she knew.

Fenris: She made her choice when she turned to blood magic. For that I have no sympathy.

Hawke: Fenris I'm not asking for sympathy, I'm asking for a little tact!

Fenris: Oh well then I suppose then the next time we see an insane mage we just go and ask them about the weather. Never mind the evil he has unleashed upon the world!

Hawke: Why does it always have to be about magic with you? I suppose if something happened to me you'd write it off as my just reward for being a mage?

Fenris: No...You are different.

Hawke: Why?

Fenris: It is...complicated. (notices Hawke staring at him and sighs) I will try to apologize to Merrill.

Hawke: Thank you.

Fenris: You are very persistent.

Hawke: I know. It's apart of my charm.

Modifié par Dr. Doctor, 14 juin 2011 - 02:53 .

[PoisonTheCity]

I like to imagine that Anders retained some of his old levity in the moments we don't get to see, in Act 1 and 2 at least. Some of his comments indicate that - like the 'I'm charming' one in his banter (with Fenris, IIRC?). I think if he was hanging out with Varric, Isabela and Hawke at the Hanged Man and Justice let the poor guy have some drinks, we'd see a lot of the personality he had in Awakenings.

On that note, I also like to imagine he had some slightly darker moments in Awakenings that we didn't see. I have my doubts that someone can spend a year in solitary confinement and not come out at least slightly crazy.

ReiSilver wrote...
Plus Fenris growls at you with "Festis bei
umo canavarum" when you rivalmance him, how could anyone compete with
that? XP

Fenris' general growliness excludes him from any romance competition. It's an unfair advantage.

[FieryDove]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

And while I know how Fenris feels about mages he can be a real jerk to poor Merrill.

Everyone (companions/clan/keeper) are too easy on Merrill in my opinion.

PoisonTheCity wrote...

Fenris' general growliness excludes him from any romance competition. It's an unfair advantage.

Its totally fair.

[Tealsie]

FieryDove wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

And while I know how Fenris feels about mages he can be a real jerk to poor Merrill.

Everyone (companions/clan/keeper) are too easy on Merrill in my opinion.

Isabela is so sweet when it comes to Merrill. It's adorable to watch. She's the only one who seems to care about the person, not the acts.  Well, she and Varric. Everyone else is raging on the poor girl because she's a blood mage, and Varric protects her and Isabela tells her she has a good heart and deserves a better life. 

[/offtopicness]

[ReiSilver]

PoisonTheCity wrote...

I like to imagine that Anders retained some of his old levity in the moments we don't get to see, in Act 1 and 2 at least. Some of his comments indicate that - like the 'I'm charming' one in his banter (with Fenris, IIRC?). I think if he was hanging out with Varric, Isabela and Hawke at the Hanged Man and Justice let the poor guy have some drinks, we'd see a lot of the personality he had in Awakenings.

The whole 'off-screen' deal is what annoys me so much about Anders, 70% of his character development and romance apparently happen off screen, he transformed from Anders to Janders off screen. I can't give credit for that, it just makes me irritated that Anders is apparently only charming when Hawke isn't around: Kitten-march
I guess it's one of the reasons I tend to enjoy fanfiction DA2Anders, fan fic writers tend to write him with 50% more snark and flirty-ness.

and to keep this about Fenris some more Aimo art of Akiva and Fenris

[Sarielle]

tankgirly wrote...

LT123 wrote...

Gideon Emery's voice is gorgeous.

It is indeed. :wub::wub::wub:

Yeah, was talking to my fiance about the companions (in general, was trying not to be too spoilerific) and I was all then there's one with DAT VOICE. My guy was totally understanding when I explained who the voice actor was, lol.

He could read me his W2 form and I'd still swoon. Which, imo, is an unfair advantage for Fenris.

I really like all the companions, though if you stuck RL me in Thedas I wouldn't touch Fen, Anders OR Isabela with a 10-foot pole. Varric, now...

[Dr. Doctor]

*Stares at Sebastian* You're a prince kicked out of his home! You're a good person! You're voiced by the guy who was Paul Atreides for the Maker's sake! You....you swore an oath of what? And doing the rivalmance means Hawke has to be a jerk? Oh well.

I think that the reason why Varric isn't an LI is:

A)  Dave said that he thought that a dwarven romance was a little strange.

  If you could romance the friendly, caring, dwarven merchant prince would you ever romance someone else?

If Varric was an LI:

Varric: Well that's the story Seeker. So why are you searching for her? Does the Chantry want revenge?

Cassandra: Not all of us want war Varric. The Champion may be the only person who can help restore order to Thedas.

Varric: So you're not hunting her down in a rip-roaring rampage of revenge?

Cassandra: No.

Varric: Well if that's the case I'm coming with you.

Cassandra: I warn you, life among the Seekers of Truth is often short.

Varric: Please, I've faced down the Dwarven Merchant's Guild and survived. Besides, Champion or not I'm not leaving my lady out there in the middle of a civil war. (grabs Bianca)

Cassandra: Well then let's get going. (The pair exit the Hawke Estate revealing ranks of Seekers lead by Leliana. The camera the zooms out to a bird's eye view of Kirkwall, and the credits start to roll)

Modifié par Dr. Doctor, 14 juin 2011 - 05:42 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Look, everybody loves Varric. He converted me to the cause of chest hair. Bioware seems to sometimes not understand the appeal of ye Olde Unconventional Love Interest.

Mmmm, Chest hair. Mmm, Carapace.

[Patchwork]

Sebastian about Anders put it best "he's a selfish man, he'll never put your needs above his own." or something like that. He might not be the best LI but the boy does come out with astute observations.

I love the idea of Verric/Hawke (especially for my current one who feels used and manipulated by Anders) but I wonder if he/she is too much of an untouchable muse for Verric to consider Hawke sexually.

[Cawti35]

All this talk about Anders made me remember a scene from DAA.  It is in Anders phylactary quest, Freedom for Anders.  I cannnot remember all the details but basically, you meet an elven woman named Namaya during the quest.  Anders has seduced her and used her to track down his phylactary(spelling?).  Once she tells him where it might be, he basically brushes her off.  So, I guess that he has not changed that much at all.  At least that is the way I remember it. 

Great, now I have to play Awakerning again. lol.

[Annarl]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

The thing about the Anders romance is that it brings out one of Hawke's weaknesses. Regardless of personallity Hawke has a hard time saying no to people. He/she is quick to help out those in need, and can easily be coerced into helping. (Yes I get that some quests force you to help because they are essential to the plot)

Anders to me takes advantage of this. The love scene culminates with "I love you, can I move in? The Templars are about to arrest me." It makes me feel like the only reason he has any interest at all in Hawke is because of what he/she can do for him.

The 'Justice' quest is what really gets me because if you decline to help Anders goes off on you for "Only caring about mage's rights on paper" and how you don't support him. Hawke cares about Anders enough to protect him from the Templars for years and when he/she wants to know why Anders is being evaisive about the bomb he/she gets treated like nothing happened between them.

Apologies to those who enjoy the Anders romance, I mean no disrespect.

I agree with you.  Even as Anders' friend he goes off on you if you refuse the Justice quest.  But I believe this is where Justice has begun to take over his person.  I think.  Anders is a deep and dark NPC.  He's not to my taste.  He really has impossible issues to overcome.  Well, in my opnion.  And I certainly mean no disrespect to those who love him.  I enjoy him as a companion just not a romance.

[Annarl]

Arquen wrote...

Did I click on the wrong thread? LOL, I think a similar discussion was going down in the Anders thread not to long ago.

At Shacry that's exactly how I feel about the Varania situation as well. Also, my Hawke's always tend to have some rage issues and so when Anders goes on about Fenris being a wild dog, blah blah blah my Hawke just sees red and goes GTFO you damn hypocritical bastard. I must be one of the only ones who doesn't feel like Anders is using Hawke on purpose, but he definitely ends up hurting him/her in the long run by having ulterior motives.

One of the things I love about Fenris is his bluntness and pure honesty. Seriously I love how he just says what he is thinking even angrily and then goes sorry for offending or sounding ungrateful. I may be one of the only people who actually likes that though, LOL. His sincerity after his outbursts is often missed by most people I think. Just goes to show how much he keeps hidden under the surface. He can be so blunt, and yet so polite all at once. I love it.

I like this about Fenris as well.  He is one of the more honest companions.  Of course he does have his issues and his own agenda (but who doesn't) but he's never hesitant to state his beliefs popular or not.  However, he doesn't want to come across as jerk.  Actually that characteristic is what has always bothered me about the three year gap.  I know they wanted the game to take place over 10 years but some of the time jumps don't work.  But that's another story.

[Dr. Doctor]

Moving on from the Anders topic, I wonder if in the event of DA3, or whatever the next game would be called, if we'll get to meet/see the Warden again. Mostly because I played as a Mage in DA:O.

I see an exchange like this happening:

Amell: So, our family's from Kirkwall?

Hawke: Yeah the Amells are nobility in the city.

Amell: Wait, we're nobility?

Hawke: I believe that's what I said.

Amell: (Has flashback of Alistair saying that she couldn't become his queen) Dammit!

Fenris: (whispering to Hawke) Is your cousin dense?

Hawke: (whispering to Fenris) No Fen, she isn't. Nobility is just a bit of a sore subject with her.