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[Meeszy Alexy]

FenrisDeSolar wrote...

GhostlyMaiden wrote...

Too bad I didn't lurk around here yesterday. This post would have been more useful then me thinks. Anyways, just gonna clarify a few things about Fenris switching to templars.

Friendship, rivalry, romanced...doesn't matter. He can and will betray you. You have to finish his second Questioning Beliefs, unlocked only when friendship or rivalry is maxed, to earn his full loyalty: "This is a mistake, but I won't abandon you." (Doing this also keeps him from tattling on you if you decide to let Emile go during On the Loose; just an interesting tidbit I decided to share). Having max rivalry or friendship, but not completing Questioning Beliefs will still make him betray you.

To get him to switch back to your side, you have to choose the "Join me" option. My Hawke was diplomatic and that's why she said "I thought freedom from slavery meant something to you." The line changes if you're sarcastic or aggressive, but the result is the same. The middle option has a "I'm sorry, but this is how it has to be" tone while the bottom option is more or less "Screw you". Unlike Merril, Fenris can refuse the "Join me" option if his friendship or rivalry is too low.

If he approaches you with guards, nothing you say can change his mind and you'll be forced to kill him. His "first rule of survival" line will change if he's non-romanced when you take the "We don't need to fight" option.

Oh and I'll throw this out as well since there were mentions of it. Merril will never betray you unless you max rival Anders and complete his second Questioning Beliefs. Tbh, I haven't tested max friendship Anders with non-maxed Merril, but I suspect that won't work because his dialogue is the same as non-Questioning Beliefs Rival Anders.

But I only had him a couple of points off from full Rival! D: In other words, if you don't do his last Quest, which is triggered by having max Friend/Rival, then he will skip away from me, return with guards and sadface when I tell him I don't want to fight, only to then draw his blade -still sadfaced at this point- and start pelting me -not so sad now- until either one of us falls dead...

Sometimes, BioWare... ¬_¬

You should've been nice to Merrill during her quest or something. That always gives Fenris Rivalry. I play characters that are very anti-blood magic, so they're always rather cold towards her. My Hawkes all seem to be jerks to mages (even when they're pro-mage!) as well, because I keep thinking "Why is my character/Bethany the only sane mage in this game?! FFS!" when I play, thus earning me Fenris friendship.

[Wulfram]

My experience was that Fenris rejoined with 80 friendship, but refused with 85 rivalry.

[Meeszy Alexy]

Wulfram wrote...

My experience was that Fenris rejoined with 80 friendship, but refused with 85 rivalry.

So it's the reverse of the Anders siding with the templars situation - Anders will join you if you're on rivalry and done the Questioning Beliefs (the bit where he admits that the whole abomination thing is wrong or something), but not on Friendship, and it's the reverse for Fenris. Interesting... would explain why Fenris always sticks with me apart from the fact that I've romanced him in all but one playthrough (I'll try to romance Isabela next time, I swear!). 

[Ramante]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

For anyone who was following my Imprisoned with the Wolf story. Good News! Someone had a copy! I have started to re-upload it on my ff.net

Hopefully it shall be up and running in a few hours where I shall add each chapter! Although a few of the last ones I may edit a tad.

Yay! I'm sending cookies to the person who had the copy. :'D

Anders can side with the templars when you rivalmance him? I need to reload my warrior playthrough, I hated that I was forced to kill him. Probably took the wrong dialogue options to get it.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Ramante wrote...

ZombieGeisha wrote...

For anyone who was following my Imprisoned with the Wolf story. Good News! Someone had a copy! I have started to re-upload it on my ff.net

Hopefully it shall be up and running in a few hours where I shall add each chapter! Although a few of the last ones I may edit a tad.

Yay! I'm sending cookies to the person who had the copy. :'D

Anders can side with the templars when you rivalmance him? I need to reload my warrior playthrough, I hated that I was forced to kill him. Probably took the wrong dialogue options to get it.

It's a new fix in the last patch. You need a save before the Justice quest for it to activate properly, I think.

[Shacary]

huh my first PT was a Hawke warrior. I was not 100% friendship with Fenris, romanced Merrill, at the gallows he talked to my diplomatic Hawke and then join ed his side. I think I was about 85% too.
It was that PT that made me a fangirl of Fenris. SInce then I cannot romance another. I guess its true, you really cant go back... well I cant seem to...
@ zombieGeisha ty for story links, had ben looking on ffnet but nothing listed there... ALso the stories you linked I couldnt find on there, just thru the link. DOnt know if story alert or anything works.... Grr ffnet!

[Arquen]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

The whole betrayal aspect boils down to this in my playthroughs:

Fenris: I cannot let these mages become Magisters. I will stand with the Knight-Commander.

Meredith: Well Champion, do you have anything left to say before we engage in pitched battle?

Hawke: Shall we play a game?

Meredith: (glaring at Hawke) I normally abhor levity at a time like this, but game do you suggest?

Hawke: Red rover?

Meredith: Very well, we shall play your game.

A few moments later

Hawke: Red rover, red rover, we call Fenris over!

Fenris: (Walks over to Hawke) It would appear that I am now on Hawke's side.

Meredith: There, we have played your game. Now can we engage eachother in battle?

Hawke: By all means.

This! Exactly. When I watched the scene on YouTube I just *facepalmed* at his dialogue. The whole: 

Hawke: I thought you were against slavery.
Fenris: I... have changed my mind human.. I will stand with my friend.

I'm just like... "really?? That's it?" It's just so... empty. I almost prefer the argument that he says when he does betray you. How he talks about Tevinter and how mages treat people there is more convincing than the conversation to convince him to return. It's like this:

Hawke: Wtf Fenris, your standing on the wrong side of the line! Get over here! Your not siding with meredith were fighting slavery and oppression here!
Fenris: oh yeah.. my bad.. I didn't see that line. (strolls over to Hawke's side) There we go. Now I'm on the right side.
me: *facepalm*

[DreamerM]

If you ask me, Act 3 should have BEGUN with the showdown in the Gallows, not ended with it. We should have had all of Act 3 to work out who is going to be on what side and why. That would have been much more interesting then...whatever the heck else we did in Act 3, I don't even remember.

Considering all the build-up to the Mage/Templar showdown, I was expecting it to be much more of the game then it ended up being.

[FenrisDeSolar]

Meeszy Alexy wrote...

FenrisDeSolar wrote...

But I only had him a couple of points off from full Rival! D: In other words, if you don't do his last Quest, which is triggered by having max Friend/Rival, then he will skip away from me, return with guards and sadface when I tell him I don't want to fight, only to then draw his blade -still sadfaced at this point- and start pelting me -not so sad now- until either one of us falls dead...

Sometimes, BioWare... ¬_¬

You should've been nice to Merrill during her quest or something. That always gives Fenris Rivalry. I play characters that are very anti-blood magic, so they're always rather cold towards her. My Hawkes all seem to be jerks to mages (even when they're pro-mage!) as well, because I keep thinking "Why is my character/Bethany the only sane mage in this game?! FFS!" when I play, thus earning me Fenris friendship.

Thing is, I was always in support of mages, even Merrill and her ridiculous Blood Magic stuff... So I had really high Rivalry for Fenris. Like, *really* high. If I'd been a PC player I'd have screen-capped it for proof. I think my problem is that I never did his final Questioning Beliefs.

But either way, I'm sort of... impressed... 

Fenris has integrity. Even though I resented having to kill him, I'm really in awe at how well that whole thing was done. He looked genuinely upset, sad, confused, angry... Plotbunnies. I got them. Give me five minutes and I'll hand you a prologue... although I can't guarantee you that it's good.

It's also mHawke/Fenris, because that's how I roll.

[GhostlyMaiden]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Was your Hawke a mage or did you have Bethany waiting for you? They can change your "mages left" count.

Ah, that would be interesting if that's how it worked. One of them did have Grey Warden Bethany and the other was a Spirit Healer. Fortunately I'll be able to test that out when I start on Reaver Hawke as soon as I'm done with Force Mage Hawke.

Also...
I've recieved mixed reviews on how much approval you need to convince Fenris to rejoin you. Can't really test it out myself atm since my current friendship!Fenris Hawkes maxed him out at the beginning of Act 2, so that would require several hours of play that I'm not in the mood for. Rival Fenris can switch sides back, but I've only successfully done so at maximum rivalry thus far.  

[FenrisDeSolar]

Right, I spoke of a prologue.

If anyone wants to read my rendition of what happens to Hawke and Fenris after the events at the Gallows, you're welcome to it. Expect slow updates.

You can read it on FanFiction.Net or DeviantArt.com.

[autumnyte]

Arquen wrote...

This! Exactly. When I watched the scene on YouTube I just *facepalmed* at his dialogue. The whole: 

Hawke: I thought you were against slavery.
Fenris: I... have changed my mind human.. I will stand with my friend.

I'm just like... "really?? That's it?" It's just so... empty. I almost prefer the argument that he says when he does betray you. How he talks about Tevinter and how mages treat people there is more convincing than the conversation to convince him to return. It's like this:

Hawke: Wtf Fenris, your standing on the wrong side of the line! Get over here! Your not siding with meredith were fighting slavery and oppression here!
Fenris: oh yeah.. my bad.. I didn't see that line. (strolls over to Hawke's side) There we go. Now I'm on the right side.
me: *facepalm*

I actually like how that dialogue goes down with a Sarcastic Hawke. Hawke basically says (I'm paraphrasing here) "I guess it's too much to ask to die with you fighting by my side", and that sways him.

To me, after everything Hawke has done for Fenris, appealing to his loyalty makes much more sense than the slavery analogy. (If Fenris hasn't bought into the whole mages=slavery thing by that point, he's not going to.) 

[R2s Muse]

Wow, delurking for a bit to say thanks to everyone for clearing up this bit about who can/will turn on you. I've been at 100% with everyone by the end on every playthrough, and everyone just...goes along with me whatever I decide, except for Sebastian and Anders, of course. It always seemed a bit...unrealistic. Now I have to test it out with less approval.

I also had a question that some of the Fenris experts might be able to answer. In my last two PTs, I've been puzzling about the empty chest in the Bait and Switch quest. Fenris asks hopefully what was in it, but doesn't tell you what he expected to be there. Anyone know??? Am I just not getting something that's supposed to be obvious?

[PoisonTheCity]

R2s Muse wrote...

I also had a question that some of the Fenris experts might be able to answer. In my last two PTs, I've been puzzling about the empty chest in the Bait and Switch quest. Fenris asks hopefully what was in it, but doesn't tell you what he expected to be there. Anyone know??? Am I just not getting something that's supposed to be obvious?

Gah, I've been wondering about that too. I also get the feeling it's something completely obvious, like when you're looking everywhere for your keys and they were in your pocket the whole time.

[Arquen]

Its like the thing under his wrist favor. The world may never know. Whats in tha box luke?! What's in thee booooxxx? Lol

This comes up from time to time but there really is no concrete answer.

[ReiSilver]

I always theorised it was supposed to contain a clue to his forgotten past. Mainly because of Hadriana's scene where she is certain Fenris wants to know about his past, it's a desire she's aware of.
What could it have been though? At first I was thinking documents but Fenris can't read at that point... which now that I think about it would have been a great opportunity for massive trolling on the slavers part.

Fenris: So what does it say?
Hawke: ....It's a recipe for nug roast...
Fenris: FFFFFFUUUUUUU

[Arquen]

It has also been theorized to be a map to danarius' location.

Fenris: so what was in the box?
Hawke: some strange map with a giant red x on this angry looking mage guy. Also looks like a picture of... you? With another red x. Its weird.. no words just pictures...
Fenris: an obvious trap, that.

[R2s Muse]

Ah, thanks all. Glad to know it wasn't just me not getting it! Gah, WHAT COULD IT BE?? Now it's going to drive me crazy.

[R2s Muse]

Arquen wrote...

Its like the thing under his wrist favor. The world may never know. Whats in tha box luke?! What's in thee booooxxx? Lol

This comes up from time to time but there really is no concrete answer.

And, heh, even after two Fenris romance PTs I never noticed this weird black ribbon/something.  Jeesh, so many mysteries.


The box now reminds me of the mysterious briefcase from Pulp Fiction. "Is that what I think it is...? -- It's beautiful."  LOL It must be Fenris' soul!

Modifié par R2s Muse, 21 juin 2011 - 03:38 .

[tankgirly]

@R2s Muse your siggy.....do you happened to have the character swapping with Cullen vid?


Btw, I found the covo between Fenris and the Mabari! Now I am going to find that convo in my playthrough. With the new patch , it should be easy!

Fenris and the Mabari talk

Modifié par tankgirly, 21 juin 2011 - 05:02 .

[Dr. Doctor]

What was in the box:

A lone Tevinter Hunter returns to the shack in the Alienage. Looking through the room he notices a lone chest.

Hunter: (talking to the chest) My lord. The elf has eluded us. What are your orders? (The chest glows and morphs into the form of Danarius)

Danarius: We return to Minrathous and regroup.

Hunter: Very well my lord.

[Red_Jezzabelle]

I was soo dissapointed when this happened, although it was my own fault for having a change of heart half way through but still very frustrating!

I was friend-mancing Fenris (who I had only ever rival-manced before) then after he left with his "I cant do this" attitude ... I moved onto Isabella "Just for fun" and was then going to go onto Anders, who was a rival-mance, but I found him even more annoying as a rival than I normally do as a friend and after his "wild dog" comment told him to get lost.

I had read that because Isabella was just for fun and because I had told Anders that I loved Fenris, I should be able to pick up the Fenris romance in Act 3 ... sadly this didn't happen and I was so frustrated that I was about to pull the plug and start a whole new game ... but I persisted mainly because I had always sided with the mages and I wanted to do a PT siding with the templars.

But what I found weird was that I didn't flirt with anyone throughout Act 3 so I was rather surprised when during the brief epilogue Varic said that Isabella and I stayed together ... would this just have been a glitch or was that me missing the fact the Isabella and I where together which is why I couldn't romance Fenris in Act 3?

[FieryDove]

Red_Jezzabelle wrote...

But what I found weird was that I didn't flirt with anyone throughout Act 3 so I was rather surprised when during the brief epilogue Varic said that Isabella and I stayed together ... would this just have been a glitch or was that me missing the fact the Isabella and I where together which is why I couldn't romance Fenris in Act 3?

Glitch I think. I ended a romance with anders at the gallows and varric still said he stayed with me.

As to Fenris, If you sleep with anyone its all off forever.
I still flirted after he *left* but that was all. He doesn't like to share even if he left you it appears.

[Red_Jezzabelle]

FieryDove wrote...

Red_Jezzabelle wrote...

But what I found weird was that I didn't flirt with anyone throughout Act 3 so I was rather surprised when during the brief epilogue Varic said that Isabella and I stayed together ... would this just have been a glitch or was that me missing the fact the Isabella and I where together which is why I couldn't romance Fenris in Act 3?

Glitch I think. I ended a romance with anders at the gallows and varric still said he stayed with me.

As to Fenris, If you sleep with anyone its all off forever.
I still flirted after he *left* but that was all. He doesn't like to share even if he left you it appears.

Clearly he is yet to learn that sharing is caring!

Now I'll have to start again to complete the friend-mance ... such a shame

[FieryDove]

Red_Jezzabelle wrote...

Clearly he is yet to learn that sharing is caring!

I would agree except Fenris vs Zevran exchange was priceless.