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[phyreblade74]

 

Arquen wrote...

Phyre! There you are! I haven't seen you.. did I miss something

...

All we get is "I was a coward.." which states to me that he was afraid of it happening again, afraid to face those memories again, and at that time not willing or not able emotionally to deal with such things. There is an old quote I'm reminded of about how you have to take care of yourself first and find out who you are before you can attempt a relationship with others.

"I was a coward" means something different to me.  I see it as his admitting he drove Hawke away in order to avoid facing his fears and anxieties where his memories of the Fog Warriors was concerned.  It ate at him, what had happened in Seheron, dragged at his own doubts and concerns where his self-worth was concerned.  He was "bad" because he'd killed the Warriors who aided him and Hawke was so much like those Warriors, someone he could respect and admire, someone strong, brave and "free with her affection", just as they were.  So there he was, agonized he could lose Hawke as he'd lost his Fog Warrior friends, and out of that fear he drove Hawke away, rather than face his own demons.

Memories ARE powerful.  I have always wondered why more attention isn't given to the events in Seheron that drove Fenris to fight for his freedom, honestly.  I think those are the memories driving Fenris when he meets Hawke and those are the memories that eat at him as he considers a future with her.  It's those memories that make him wonder as to his value as a free man, warrior, friend and lover; so that he fearfully denies Hawke during that night.  It's only the events that follow which convince him of the foolishness of his doubts.

I do agree with you he's guilt-ridden after leaving Hawke like that, mind you.  And that's perhaps the best reason they don't talk about his actions that night until three years later.  He feels like an a** so he just doesn't talk about it.  It's only after Danarius, only after Hawke assures him she respects his worth and value, that she's "there" for him no matter what, that Fenris is able to confront his own guilt and fears.

This is where I shamefully admit I've been playing with my husband in one of his MMO worlds.  Haven't completed my latest PT of DA2, which is sad.  I like the new "aggressive" mage I've created, who avoids the Circle only because everyone "needs" her but resents the increasing pressure of responsibility foisted on her by everyone.  I should just finish the dang thing, lol.

Edited to add, for top of page:

I used one of those retexture mods for Fenris' armor and got this screenie during the final battle sequence --

Modifié par phyreblade74, 28 juin 2011 - 02:46 .

[Meeszy Alexy]

Heidenreich wrote...

Arquen wrote...

Deliciously-Demonic wrote...

-melts a little- Oh Feeeen~
I really need to write a DA2 fic now. I'm loathed to start one, however, because...ah...my only Fem!Hawkes that romanced Fenris are elves (I have a perfectly logical explaination for this, too!) and I can't write good slash.

Also, I need to stop lurking in the Anders thread. It's giving me odd desires. Such as, to grab my cat, look up pictures of Femnders, and speculate on Hawkespawn. Why can't we be as awesomely insane as the Anderstians?!

I lurk in the Anders thread as well, but all my love is for Fenris. I crack up in the Anders thread though, good times. Unfortunately, the Fenris thread has lost a bit of its momentum over the past month or so. I never saw it as a contest, however, and so am happy as long as there are fellow Fenris fans to share my obsession with and bounce theories around with.

As far as crazy.. heh... they are in a category of their own.

Oh CGG, making more Fenders converts... LOL. I still can't get used to it. It doesn't terribly offend me (not much does), but it is not something I am into.

Everyone else I know is so sick of hearing me go on about DA2. You people are my only recourse, lmao.

Anyone who is a Fenris fan is by default almost always an Anders fan. Its impossible not to be. He's amazing. And by amazing, I mean he's crazy, and every one loves a little bit of train-wreckage with their drama.

<3

I suppose this makes me an exception. Anders scares me. He's a bit too crazy for my taste. Not to mention the whole Justice thing... I don't want Justice to know. Oh, and the whole "Terrorist" thing.

I prefer Fenris because a) He's my type I don't understand Anders' appeal and c) I understand him better and can see things his way without having to agree with him. (Not that I don't.)

Edit: Also, I don't care for Fenders as a pairing, but I do follow one fanfic because it's amazingly written.

Modifié par Meeszy Alexy, 28 juin 2011 - 01:53 .

[ReiSilver]

Thanks guys!
I started thinking something along othe lines of "I knew it"/"Oh 'never use blood magic' huh? 'Not all mages are the same'?" might be in order. When I started writing I hadn't intended for the misunderstanding to be in there but once I realised healing the injury would leave Hawke with bloody hands and that Fenris would naturally assume blood magic I couldn't not include it.

[Arquen]

I appreciate the crazy ball of crazy that is Anders, but I keep him at arms length. I've never romanced him (I just can't make myself do it..), but I always try to support him.

I suppose it is the empathetic person in me who wants some kind of happy ending for Anders, and I loved him in Awakenings -- that is a big part of my appreciation for him now. I don't know if I can call myself an Anders fangirl. I really am not terribly attracted to him, and as I said I like him as a character but I couldn't put myself on the same level as an Anderstian, lol. I befriend him, and I try to help him as best I can and support him, but I just *facepalm* at him most of the time especially during Act 3.

No, all my love belongs to Fenris. He is quickly becoming one of my all time favorite characters.. ever?

Also, I think us fans come in all types. There are plenty of Anders fans that don't like Fenris at all. Likewise, I think there are plenty of Fenris fans who don't like Anders much.

[Heidenreich]

Arquen wrote...

I appreciate the crazy ball of crazy that is Anders, but I keep him at arms length. I've never romanced him (I just can't make myself do it..), but I always try to support him.

I suppose it is the empathetic person in me who wants some kind of happy ending for Anders, and I loved him in Awakenings -- that is a big part of my appreciation for him now. I don't know if I can call myself an Anders fangirl. I really am not terribly attracted to him, and as I said I like him as a character but I couldn't put myself on the same level as an Anderstian, lol. I befriend him, and I try to help him as best I can and support him, but I just *facepalm* at him most of the time especially during Act 3.

No, all my love belongs to Fenris. He is quickly becoming one of my all time favorite characters.. ever?

Also, I think us fans come in all types. There are plenty of Anders fans that don't like Fenris at all. Likewise, I think there are plenty of Fenris fans who don't like Anders much.

I romanced Anders out-the-gate, and then ran crying, heartbroken to Fenris for like.. 5 seperate play throughs afterwards. I TOTALLY sugest romancing Anders, at least once. It's amazingly heart-wrenching, and outside of his one AMAZINGly creeperly line about drowning the world in blood, its deffinately AWE worthy.


That being said, I also recomend doing it FIRST, because it makes the Fenris romance down right stable by comparison ;p



As for the terrorist thing with Anders -- My favorite line to that argument is this, "Remember, there's a fine line between terrorism and heroism. The only differences are who's telling the story, and if you won."

Modifié par Heidenreich, 28 juin 2011 - 02:18 .

[Madame Rose Crimsynn]

Heidenreich wrote...

Anyone who is a Fenris fan is by default almost always an Anders fan.

Oh really? 'Cause personally, I am a Fenris fan, and I found Awakening!Anders tolerable, and DA2!Anders downright throttle-worthy. I don't know if it's because I *did* only find Anders in Awakening tolearble so I came in not expecting much, and blowing up the Chantry did not help the guy in any shape or form with me, or just because that I've always been a Circle Mage or all mages go run out and live in a cave away from society kind of person.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

On the vast majority of my playthroughs I end up with Fenris first and Anders after, sometimes with an appetizer of Isabella. My sanest Hawke ends up sticking with Fenris, though. If Fenris didn't leave, it'd be a lot tougher decision to make.

[Meeszy Alexy]

Heidenreich wrote...

Arquen wrote...

I appreciate the crazy ball of crazy that is Anders, but I keep him at arms length. I've never romanced him (I just can't make myself do it..), but I always try to support him.

I suppose it is the empathetic person in me who wants some kind of happy ending for Anders, and I loved him in Awakenings -- that is a big part of my appreciation for him now. I don't know if I can call myself an Anders fangirl. I really am not terribly attracted to him, and as I said I like him as a character but I couldn't put myself on the same level as an Anderstian, lol. I befriend him, and I try to help him as best I can and support him, but I just *facepalm* at him most of the time especially during Act 3.

No, all my love belongs to Fenris. He is quickly becoming one of my all time favorite characters.. ever?

Also, I think us fans come in all types. There are plenty of Anders fans that don't like Fenris at all. Likewise, I think there are plenty of Fenris fans who don't like Anders much.

I romanced Anders out-the-gate, and then ran crying, heartbroken to Fenris for like.. 5 seperate play throughs afterwards. I TOTALLY sugest romancing Anders, at least once. It's amazingly heart-wrenching, and outside of his one AMAZINGly creeperly line about drowning the world in blood, its deffinately AWE worthy.


That being said, I also recomend doing it FIRST, because it makes the Fenris romance down right stable by comparison ;p



As for the terrorist thing with Anders -- My favorite line to that argument is this, "Remember, there's a fine line between terrorism and heroism. The only differences are who's telling the story, and if you won."

I did Anders' romance. He creeped me out. I felt he was waaaay over-dramatic and moved too quickly. By the end of the game, I just felt used.  I did Anders second, but only because Fenris won the coin toss on "Who should I romance first?" As a writer, Anders interests me, but as a player, he just scares the hell out of me.

Anders killed innocents to start a war. That doesn't sound very heroic to me. Just sayin'.

[phyreblade74]

Heidenreich wrote...

Arquen wrote...

Deliciously-Demonic wrote...

-melts a little- Oh Feeeen~
I really need to write a DA2 fic now. I'm loathed to start one, however, because...ah...my only Fem!Hawkes that romanced Fenris are elves (I have a perfectly logical explaination for this, too!) and I can't write good slash.

Also, I need to stop lurking in the Anders thread. It's giving me odd desires. Such as, to grab my cat, look up pictures of Femnders, and speculate on Hawkespawn. Why can't we be as awesomely insane as the Anderstians?!

I lurk in the Anders thread as well, but all my love is for Fenris. I crack up in the Anders thread though, good times. Unfortunately, the Fenris thread has lost a bit of its momentum over the past month or so. I never saw it as a contest, however, and so am happy as long as there are fellow Fenris fans to share my obsession with and bounce theories around with.

As far as crazy.. heh... they are in a category of their own.

Oh CGG, making more Fenders converts... LOL. I still can't get used to it. It doesn't terribly offend me (not much does), but it is not something I am into.

Everyone else I know is so sick of hearing me go on about DA2. You people are my only recourse, lmao.

Anyone who is a Fenris fan is by default almost always an Anders fan. Its impossible not to be. He's amazing. And by amazing, I mean he's crazy, and every one loves a little bit of train-wreckage with their drama.

<3

Not I, <shudder>.  Anders is scary crazy.  Every time I've tried romancing him, I ended up feeling icky.  I told my friend, when she asked me about Anders, "He blows up a church full of nuns, 'nuff said."  To me, it's tantamount to dating and romancing one of the fellows who flew a plane into the side of the WTC.  When I think of it, I just...nope, can't do it.

[beckaliz]

I'm having an issue with my xbox version of the game. During the glowy kiss scene you're supposed to see his face go "GRRR.... er, whoops o.o". But when I play his head is turned to the left there, can't even see his face, and it's turned to the left also while they're kissing. Is this an xbox thing? It's really annoying.

[Meeszy Alexy]

phyreblade: I think the exact same thing about Anders when I'm playing...
beckaliz: Must be. I've not had this happen with my PC version.

[Tealsie]

beckaliz wrote...

I'm having an issue with my xbox version of the game. During the glowy kiss scene you're supposed to see his face go "GRRR.... er, whoops o.o". But when I play his head is turned to the left there, can't even see his face, and it's turned to the left also while they're kissing. Is this an xbox thing? It's really annoying.

I think so. I play on the xbox and always have similar issues with that scene. They always seem to want to kiss eachother's chin or cheeks instead of mouth, for me.  it's kinda cute, but... odd.

[beckaliz]

Tealsie wrote...

beckaliz wrote...

I'm having an issue with my xbox version of the game. During the glowy kiss scene you're supposed to see his face go "GRRR.... er, whoops o.o". But when I play his head is turned to the left there, can't even see his face, and it's turned to the left also while they're kissing. Is this an xbox thing? It's really annoying.

I think so. I play on the xbox and always have similar issues with that scene. They always seem to want to kiss eachother's chin or cheeks instead of mouth, for me.  it's kinda cute, but... odd.

Yeah, Fenris's eyes do some funky stuff there while Hawke is kissing his... ear. He looks halfway demented actually.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Given the historical era, I find it slightly more apropro to think of Anders as Robespierre. Who was also a straight out, knock down, crazy dude. But you know, a more historically appropriate one. Especially with this badass quote: 

If virtue be the spring of a popular government in times of peace, the spring of that government during a revolution is virtue combined with terror: virtue, without which terror is destructive; terror, without which virtue is impotent. Terror is only justice prompt, severe and inflexible; it is then an emanation of virtue; it is less a distinct principle than a natural consequence of the general principle of democracy, applied to the most pressing wants of the country ... The government in a revolution is the despotism of liberty against tyranny.

Now, does that sound like Anders or does that sound like Anders?


Though if you're trying to view Anders charitably for whatever reason, you can also think of him as Moses... who used an Angel of death to kill a lot of innocent people in order to free his people from an oppressive government who hated them. I'm just sayin' is all. 

But this is why I usually stick to the Anders thread. Anytime anyone mentions him outside of there, I can name that tune in three notes. That said, nobody's gonna argue that Fenris isn't the saner choice. Probably the sanest choice!

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 28 juin 2011 - 03:16 .

[Heidenreich]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Given the historical era, I find it slightly more apropro to think of Anders as Robspierre. Who was also a straight out, knock down, crazy dude. But you know, a more historically appropriate one. Especially with this badass quote: 

If virtue be the spring of a popular government in times of peace, the spring of that government during a revolution is virtue combined with terror: virtue, without which terror is destructive; terror, without which virtue is impotent. Terror is only justice prompt, severe and inflexible; it is then an emanation of virtue; it is less a distinct principle than a natural consequence of the general principle of democracy, applied to the most pressing wants of the country ... The government in a revolution is the despotism of liberty against tyranny.

Now, does that sound like Anders or does that sound like Anders?


Though if you're trying to view Anders charitably for whatever reason, you can also think of him as Moses... who used an Angel of death to kill a lot of innocent people in order to free his people from an oppressive government who hated them. I'm just sayin' is all. 

But this is why I usually stick to the Anders thread. Anytime anyone mentions him outside of there, I can name that tune in three notes. That said, nobody's gonna argue that Fenris isn't the saner choice. Probably the sanest choice!

Have my lesbian babies plz? ;p

I just don't get why you folks don't love Anders too. Fenris is just as broken, if not more so, then Anders on a personality level. Anders is just more about a CAUSE then Fenris is ;p He's bi-polar, so EVERYTHING is extreme. Extreme love, extreme hate, extreme justice!

I dunno, maybe its because I'm that way ;p I obsess over the things I like, though to be fair I've spent a big chunk of my life teaching myself to just toss aside things I dislike rather then overtly RAGE about them. Brush mah shoulder off and all that jaz.

Fenris is by far the saner choice in romances in that he's loyal to a fault. That doesn't mean he's any less broken in his need for CONSTANT reasurance. I feel as if Fenris would bite Hawke's face off any time she/he flirted, was flirted with, etc.. even by Bela on occasion, though 10+ years in he'd know Bela well enough not to take her as seriously as others.

"And who is that? Why did he have his eyes all over you! What aren't you telling me!?"

As opposed to Anders, who would just try and stuff his Manifesto down the throat of who ever you're having a conversation with ;x

[Annarl]

Arquen wrote...

Deliciously-Demonic wrote...

-melts a little- Oh Feeeen~
I really need to write a DA2 fic now. I'm loathed to start one, however, because...ah...my only Fem!Hawkes that romanced Fenris are elves (I have a perfectly logical explaination for this, too!) and I can't write good slash.

Also, I need to stop lurking in the Anders thread. It's giving me odd desires. Such as, to grab my cat, look up pictures of Femnders, and speculate on Hawkespawn. Why can't we be as awesomely insane as the Anderstians?!

I lurk in the Anders thread as well, but all my love is for Fenris. I crack up in the Anders thread though, good times. Unfortunately, the Fenris thread has lost a bit of its momentum over the past month or so. I never saw it as a contest, however, and so am happy as long as there are fellow Fenris fans to share my obsession with and bounce theories around with.

As far as crazy.. heh... they are in a category of their own.

Oh CGG, making more Fenders converts... LOL. I still can't get used to it. It doesn't terribly offend me (not much does), but it is not something I am into.

Everyone else I know is so sick of hearing me go on about DA2. You people are my only recourse, lmao.

I think the forums as a whole have lost a lot of momentum. It's really quiet in general.  Bioware needs to get some DLC out soon.   And as for Fenders, well I'm not a fan (and I'm not offended by it either).  Mostly because it seems like a sick and twisted relationship. I'm not really into slash, I guess you call it.  But for those who are  enjoy.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I can understand why people don't like Anders, I just feel that an expanded historical context is necessary in order to understand him. Still, dude be straight-up crazy, and if you're not either strong enough to believe you can deal with it or naive enough to believe love will conquer all, then staying away is the best idea. The best possible idea.

I also understand why people don't like Fenders. It's actually the first slash pairing I have ever shipped in my life, and that's pretty much just because I ship so many ships with both Fenris and Anders, that why not double my pleasure and double my fun? It's the statement of a great mint, doublemint gum. I didn't think I'd like it at first either, since I usually hate that whole slap slap kiss mechanic. But one day there was a link, and I clicked it, and all of a sudden I was falllllling and there was no escape. That said, I prefer the stories about them that result in gradual acceptance rather than the ones that result in horrible power imbalances. Because honestly, the fact that you can't get Anders to say "All right, I admit that Tevinter is a horrible place and nowhere should be like that!" and Fenris to say "Ok, I admit that if the Templars had their way Hawke would never have been born!" is the single most frustrating thing about the game.

[phyreblade74]

Heidenreich wrote...


Have my lesbian babies plz? ;p

I just don't get why you folks don't love Anders too. Fenris is just as broken, if not more so, then Anders on a personality level. Anders is just more about a CAUSE then Fenris is ;p He's bi-polar, so EVERYTHING is extreme. Extreme love, extreme hate, extreme justice!

I dunno, maybe its because I'm that way ;p I obsess over the things I like, though to be fair I've spent a big chunk of my life teaching myself to just toss aside things I dislike rather then overtly RAGE about them. Brush mah shoulder off and all that jaz.

Fenris is by far the saner choice in romances in that he's loyal to a fault. That doesn't mean he's any less broken in his need for CONSTANT reasurance. I feel as if Fenris would bite Hawke's face off any time she/he flirted, was flirted with, etc.. even by Bela on occasion, though 10+ years in he'd know Bela well enough not to take her as seriously as others.

"And who is that? Why did he have his eyes all over you! What aren't you telling me!?"

As opposed to Anders, who would just try and stuff his Manifesto down the throat of who ever you're having a conversation with ;x

I understand why *I* don't like Anders, why I find his deterioration and eventual terrorism unforgiveable.  I know it's a personal angst of mine and I don't expect everyone to feel as I do.  IMO, it's perfectly fine that different people will experience the story of DA2 differently than I do, is all. 

But for me?  No, Anders is a terrorist who manipulates and lies to my Hawke in order to facilitate his terrorism, who uses Hawke's care and concern in order to coerce from her a bitterly obscene objective.  My husband spent 15 months overseas, during the surge into Iraq; he helped transport scared, wounded Iraqis to aid stations after bombings; he survived an IED attack on his own Humvee.  Terrorism isn't something *I* can tolerate, let alone find romantic and/or attractive in any way, shape or form, even in make-believe or fantasy, because *I* have spent too many real-life months agonizing over the safety of my own loved ones in harm's way of such "craziness". 

That's me, though.  Everyone's experience is different, everyone's perspective is different, and that's okay.  Heck, this is just a game, shrug.  Fun, enjoyable and enlivening.  Have a good time with it, I say.  Hugs!

[phyreblade74]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

<snip>
Because honestly, the fact that you can't get Anders to say "All right, I admit that Tevinter is a horrible place and nowhere should be like that!" and Fenris to say "Ok, I admit that if the Templars had their way Hawke would never have been born!" is the single most frustrating thing about the game.

Completely agree!

[Annarl]

As for Anders, I don't hate him or anything. He is interesting companion and in some of my games someone my Hawke cares about, but not as a lover. He's just....too much. It isn't just about the terrorism although that's bad. I tried to romance him once. And some of the dialogue is disturbing to me. Drowning in blood for me is not a romance line. Both he and Fenris have issues. Both have moments when I want to reach through the screen and shake them. It's just Anders love seems twisted, at least to me it is. Now how much of that is Justice's fault I don't know but for me Anders is broken beyond repair. While Fenris shows growth and the possibility of a future.

Modifié par omearaee, 28 juin 2011 - 03:59 .

[Tealsie]

I don't think it's so much about either of them(Anders and Fenris) being broken personality-wise... but more mind-wise. Like has been said many times now: He's quite insane.  Or... to use a quote from one of my favorite books(The Tale of Despereaux)

"There are those hearts. reader, that never mend again once they are broken. Or if they do mend, they heal themselves in a crooked and lopsided way, as if sewn together by a careless craftsman."

Fenris tries to put his back together properly, over time. Or fill in the gaps with Hawke's help. Anders seems to realise his is broken, but is more in a "woe is me!  " sort of state, and doesn't try to fix anything... instead he does things which break it even more. At times, I think his mind is so broken that it's pretty much just dust or splinters floating about.   I don't hate or dislike him. If I, personally, were in a relationship with him/someone similar... I wouldn't try to sway him from his "purpose" after a certain point... but I couldn't stay with him either. Partially out of fear that he'll pull all of the same crap all over again.

I can never bring myself to support Fenders(I don't hate it, I just don't agree with it). I think they hate eachother too much to have that kind of a relationship.  

[CulturalGeekGirl]

phyreblade74 wrote...

I understand why *I* don't like Anders, why I find his deterioration and eventual terrorism unforgiveable.  I know it's a personal angst of mine and I don't expect everyone to feel as I do.  IMO, it's perfectly fine that different people will experience the story of DA2 differently than I do, is all. 

But for me?  No, Anders is a terrorist who manipulates and lies to my Hawke in order to facilitate his terrorism, who uses Hawke's care and concern in order to coerce from her a bitterly obscene objective.  My husband spent 15 months overseas, during the surge into Iraq; he helped transport scared, wounded Iraqis to aid stations after bombings; he survived an IED attack on his own Humvee.  Terrorism isn't something *I* can tolerate, let alone find romantic and/or attractive in any way, shape or form, even in make-believe or fantasy, because *I* have spent too many real-life months agonizing over the safety of my own loved ones in harm's way of such "craziness". 

That's me, though.  Everyone's experience is different, everyone's perspective is different, and that's okay.  Heck, this is just a game, shrug.  Fun, enjoyable and enlivening.  Have a good time with it, I say.  Hugs!

I just think that comparing Anders to modern terrorism is a natural instinctive reaction. I do believe that too many variables have been changed to make the acts strictly analgous, though. I'm with you that modern day terrorism is completely and totally not something to romanticize. But terrorism wasn't a word before the 1790s, and it didn't have the meaning it has now prior to the 1940s. To me, that concept is an artifact of the world as we know it today, and not one that works well in the realm of history or fantasy. To give an utterly ridiculous example: 

We have another historical or mythological figure who made a deal with a supernatural being to murder a bunch of innocent people in order to gain freedom for his people: He was called Moses, and the Angel of Death was the stand-in for Vengeance, but the parallels are there. One dude, standing in front of an oppressive ruler, striking down his staff and saying "bad stuff is going to happen because you didn't free my people" and then death sweeping down from on high to kill a lot of innocents... it's basically the exact same story: using fear and the death of innocents to motivate change. It's awful. But I can't condemn it in that particular story. I can contextualize the time period, and the fantastic or supernatural forces involved.

Do I think Anders is actually Moses analogue? Not precisely, no. I think he's somewhere between Moses and Robespierre, who (if you're curious) actually invented the word terrorism. He was also a horrible murderer and a crazy person, but you can't argue with the fact that he helped the French gain their freedom.

Now, you may accuse me of bringing up Robespierre just so I could quote this other totally relevant Anders-related quote that he had about Deism, and you might be partially correct, there. Seriously, Robespierre actually said this: 

Is it not He whose immortal hand, engraving on the heart of man the code of justice and equality, has written there the death sentence of tyrants? Is it not He who, from the beginning of time, decreed for all the ages and for all peoples liberty, good faith, and justice? He did not create kings to devour the human race. He did not create priests to harness us, like vile animals, to the chariots of kings and to give to the world examples of baseness, pride, perfidy, avarice, debauchery and falsehood. He created the universe to proclaim His power. He created men to help each other, to love each other mutually, and to attain to happiness by the way of virtue

Now if, you say you consider what Moses and the Angel of Death did a terrible and unforgivable case of terrorism, then I'm totally with you calling terrorism unforgivable in every single case. But if you can forgive the Angel of Death for killing all the innocent firstborn of Egypt, many of whom were babes still in their cribs, then you can perhaps see how, in cases divorced from the present place and time, and when great primal forces are involved, perhaps not all acts of death and fear by a desperate minority are created equal.

[Patriciachr34]

I agree with Teaslie on this one. I romanced Anders my first play through and it was very difficult for me in the end. Although a bit self serving, in Awakenings Anders was strong and sure of himself as a person. In DA2, Anders is full of guilt and self loathing. It is difficult over the course of 3 acts to slowly see everything that was Anders unravel and disappear. Watching the process as a friend is painful enough, but as a lover it is excrutiating especially since you can do nothing to help the man.

Fenris I can understand. Yes he has issues, but he tackles them and overcomes them over the course of the three acts. Unlike Anders, Fenris is trying to keep his problems from defining who he is. Fenris doesn't ask for or need support, but accepts it when it is given.

[Meeszy Alexy]

CulturalGeekGirl and Heidenreich:

I just don't think that just because Anders managed to create an event that freed the mages - which in itself is a morally and ethically grey action - justifies him blowing up the chantry. To quote Aveline, "Belief is no excuse. Sincerity does not justify this", basically sums up how I see what Anders did. And besides, many mages have - and are going to - die from the result, just because Anders wanted to enforce his ideals on everyone. That's why I can't like him as a player. He is nothing but a crazy mass murderer to me.

Modifié par Meeszy Alexy, 28 juin 2011 - 04:40 .

[Patriciachr34]

@Meeszy...I see Anders as deeply troubled. His intentions were good (merging with Justice), but things went sideways and it cost him his sanity. Blowing up the chantry was as much a plea for help as it was a statement about oppression. This doesn't justify the act, but it does garner a lot of sympathy at least from me. I've pulled out the murder knife in every play through so far. I am in the middle of new one and will let him live this time. I want to give Anders the chance to make a difference. Besides, my warden may have to have a few "pointed" words with Anders later on.