CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
phyreblade74 wrote...
I understand why *I* don't like Anders, why I find his deterioration and eventual terrorism unforgiveable. I know it's a personal angst of mine and I don't expect everyone to feel as I do. IMO, it's perfectly fine that different people will experience the story of DA2 differently than I do, is all.
But for me? No, Anders is a terrorist who manipulates and lies to my Hawke in order to facilitate his terrorism, who uses Hawke's care and concern in order to coerce from her a bitterly obscene objective. My husband spent 15 months overseas, during the surge into Iraq; he helped transport scared, wounded Iraqis to aid stations after bombings; he survived an IED attack on his own Humvee. Terrorism isn't something *I* can tolerate, let alone find romantic and/or attractive in any way, shape or form, even in make-believe or fantasy, because *I* have spent too many real-life months agonizing over the safety of my own loved ones in harm's way of such "craziness".
That's me, though. Everyone's experience is different, everyone's perspective is different, and that's okay. Heck, this is just a game, shrug. Fun, enjoyable and enlivening. Have a good time with it, I say. Hugs!
I just think that comparing Anders to modern terrorism is a natural instinctive reaction. I do believe that too many variables have been changed to make the acts strictly analgous, though. I'm with you that modern day terrorism is completely and totally not something to romanticize. But terrorism wasn't a word before the 1790s, and it didn't have the meaning it has now prior to the 1940s. To me, that concept is an artifact of the world as we know it today, and not one that works well in the realm of history or fantasy. To give an utterly ridiculous example:
We have another historical or mythological figure who made a deal with a supernatural being to murder a bunch of innocent people in order to gain freedom for his people: He was called Moses, and the Angel of Death was the stand-in for Vengeance, but the parallels are there. One dude, standing in front of an oppressive ruler, striking down his staff and saying "bad stuff is going to happen because you didn't free my people" and then death sweeping down from on high to kill a lot of innocents... it's basically the exact same story: using fear and the death of innocents to motivate change. It's awful. But I can't condemn it in that particular story. I can contextualize the time period, and the fantastic or supernatural forces involved.
Do I think Anders is actually Moses analogue? Not precisely, no. I think he's somewhere between Moses and Robespierre, who (if you're curious) actually invented the word terrorism. He was also a horrible murderer and a crazy person, but you can't argue with the fact that he helped the French gain their freedom.
Now, you may accuse me of bringing up Robespierre just so I could quote this other totally relevant Anders-related quote that he had about Deism, and you might be partially correct, there. Seriously, Robespierre actually said this:Is it not He whose immortal hand, engraving on the heart of man the code of justice and equality, has written there the death sentence of tyrants? Is it not He who, from the beginning of time, decreed for all the ages and for all peoples liberty, good faith, and justice? He did not create kings to devour the human race. He did not create priests to harness us, like vile animals, to the chariots of kings and to give to the world examples of baseness, pride, perfidy, avarice, debauchery and falsehood. He created the universe to proclaim His power. He created men to help each other, to love each other mutually, and to attain to happiness by the way of virtue
Now if, you say you consider what Moses and the Angel of Death did a terrible and unforgivable case of terrorism, then I'm totally with you calling terrorism unforgivable in every single case. But if you can forgive the Angel of Death for killing all the innocent firstborn of Egypt, many of whom were babes still in their cribs, then you can perhaps see how, in cases divorced from the present place and time, and when great primal forces are involved, perhaps not all acts of death and fear by a desperate minority are created equal.
I don't see Anders' terrorism as you do, perhaps. It's far more akin to the terrorism of today, with all its quasi-political and religious undertones. The terrorists we fight today, mind you, are fanatically intent on supplanting those systems of government and faith they do not agree with with one that they do. Mind you, I don't see Anders offering up any sort of solution to the questions of magic's dangers, no way to provide the security from those dangers that Templars do provide in the immediate. But he IS just as rabid in his intentions to destroy the very fabric of faith-based social/governmental system that has long endured in Thedas as any modern-day terrorist is intent on destroying systems adverse to theirs today.
He is no Robespierre. He's more a deranged Martin Luther, suddenly destroying Saint Peter's in Rome. Nor is he a Moses. He's more a random suicide bomber chanting about the "evildoers" and singing how he'll be remembered forever and ever just before he drives a van full of explosives into a military barracks. There is nothing precious about his actions, nothing justified; he's madly striking out, rather, offering nothing better, nothing to truly solve the problems, nothing more than "I'm going to make a point". And he used my Hawke to do it, he USED her, like she was nothing but a tool. He shows her she's nothing more than that to him, and that is just ugly.
It makes Anders just ugly. It broke my heart to watch him go to pieces like that. If the game had allowed me any different way, any chance to redeem him, to save him from doing such an obscene thing -- perhaps I might see some appeal to romancing him. But there's nothing. He's broken beyond repair, makes no effort to un-break himself, and, to me, that makes him unromanceable. I am far more drawn to Fenris, who can grow beyond the bitterness and hatred that marks him when you first meet him in Act 1. Fenris changes for the better. Anders is just lost.
Edited to add, since I'm on top again (whoopie!):
Modifié par phyreblade74, 28 juin 2011 - 07:46 .
Retour en haut
(Ok, I kid I play Horde too)
I never said "the ends never justify the means". I said it boils down to "Does the end justify the means" and the answer to that query is black and white. I never ever said "they never do" in any of my posts.
