55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

phyreblade74 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

phyreblade74 wrote...

Nope, still don't get it.

What don't you understand?

To me, it's illogical to attack someone who's done nothing to you, to compel them to do something to you, so you can then fight to save yourself from them doing something to you. 

Illogical, but it does work.  To steer it away from RL situations, take Dune, where conspirators against Alia stoke her oppressiveness so that the people would rise up against her.  They were trying to sow instability in her reign by deliberately making her resort to bloodier and bloodier crackdowns.  So, is Alia or are the conspirators the real monsters?  Hard to say.  They certainly knew what they were doing.  Anders does, as well.  If you tell him the blood of the mages is on his hands, he says "I know."

To try to wrench it back somewhat to thread topic, Fenris and Anders are similar in many ways, but this is where they really differ.  Fenris distrusts all mages, but he's not out on a crusade against them.  If he was, I'd hate him, too. 

[kromify]

Heidenreich wrote...



I love it when I accidentally spark a debate.

It's OKAY if you like Fenris more.. just don't write off Anders because he chose his cause over your hawke ;p He tells you right up front that he's going to, if you listen to him.

Also?

*licks KoP and Ipgd and runs away*

KoP tastes like lemon.  

[beckaliz]

phyreblade74 wrote...

kromify wrote...

but blowing up the chantry worked!!

Did it?  What ends up happening in Thedas as a result of Anders' action is left pretty much up in the air at the end of my game.  Did you get a different ending?  Wild.

Anders says during the Dissent quest that he thinks the mages would be better off in open warfare. Open warfare is what he got.


Hmm.... Fenris thread.... Here is some Fenris.

Modifié par beckaliz, 28 juin 2011 - 09:45 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

kromify wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

*licks KoP and Ipgd and runs away*

KoP tastes like lemon.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Sour or sweet this time?
Usually depends on my mood.

[DaiyoukaiGeisha]

Addai67 wrote...

Illogical, but it does work.  To steer it away from RL situations, take Dune, where conspirators against Alia stoke her oppressiveness so that the people would rise up against her.  They were trying to sow instability in her reign by deliberately making her resort to bloodier and bloodier crackdowns.  So, is Alia or are the conspirators the real monsters?  Hard to say.  They certainly knew what they were doing.  Anders does, as well.  If you tell him the blood of the mages is on his hands, he says "I know."

To try to wrench it back somewhat to thread topic, Fenris and Anders are similar in many ways, but this is where they really differ.  Fenris distrusts all mages, but he's not out on a crusade against them.  If he was, I'd hate him, too. 

I agree, but to clarify on the Dune reference (since I'm a raging Frank Herbert fan). Alia also lost control over the other personalities within her, and was in the end totally under the influence of her uncle Vladimir Harkonnen (the dominant personality). That fueled her paranoia and instability more than anything.

[kromify]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

*licks KoP and Ipgd and runs away*

KoP tastes like lemon.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Sour or sweet this time?
Usually depends on my mood.

bittersweet. just the way i like it   <3

Modifié par kromify, 28 juin 2011 - 09:51 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

kromify wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

*licks KoP and Ipgd and runs away*

KoP tastes like lemon.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Sour or sweet this time?
Usually depends on my mood.

bittersweet. just the way i like it   <3

My mood most of the time

[kittycannibal]

just struttin along to say.

ILOVEYOUFENRISITWOULDPLEASEMETOHAVERELATIONSWITHYOUPREFERABLYSEXUAL.

[Heidenreich]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

*licks KoP and Ipgd and runs away*

KoP tastes like lemon.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Sour or sweet this time?
Usually depends on my mood.

bittersweet. just the way i like it   <3

My mood most of the time

Hot

[Addai]

DaiyoukaiGeisha wrote...
I agree, but to clarify on the Dune reference (since I'm a raging Frank Herbert fan). Alia also lost control over the other personalities within her, and was in the end totally under the influence of her uncle Vladimir Harkonnen (the dominant personality). That fueled her paranoia and instability more than anything.

I know, but it still applies, since everyone including Anders knows that Meredith is crackerjacks ergo pushing her is not likely to end well.  But if "not ending well" is what you want, OTOH...

I can get behind revolutionaries who are more systematic, well thought out and targeted in their efforts.  I supported the idea of a mage underground, even with Fenris growling at me at every turn (festus bei car... whatever he says ).  But "let's blow **** up and see what happens, you never know, it could be good!"... that earns a big, fat facepalm.

[Deliciously-Demonic]

...I wonder if I should regret bringing up the Anders thread, or rejoice. I mean, it *did* speed the thread up.

-sigh- Anders is a terrorist, to me, but I still love him. In fact, sick-minded as I am I probably love him more for blowing up the Chantry. I mean, I wasn't cheering an screaming his name, I was pissed that I had to do a black-and-white decision (rather then stick in my delicious gray area that DA2 rarely gives), but upon reflection...yeah, I understand why he did it, and appreciate it, though I don't fully agree. He was making a point, though his method was, I think, poorly executed (don't remember who mentioned it, but I agree that hiring a Zevran to kill Ethina would have been so much neater then playing Jenga with the Chantry). I enjoy romancing him because it's so deliciously heart-breaking. Maker knows, I love angst. x3 I especially loved when my poor pro-mage extermist Hawke who supported him 100%, had her beliefs absolutely shattered when he Jenga'd the Chantry, killed him, sided with the templars (and in headcanon, ran off with Fenris. xD)

But...ah...this *is* the Fenris thread...-blush- So...anyone have any good Fenders drawings? >.< I enjoy that pairing *far* more then I should...

[kromify]

Heidenreich wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

*licks KoP and Ipgd and runs away*

KoP tastes like lemon.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

Sour or sweet this time?
Usually depends on my mood.

bittersweet. just the way i like it   <3

My mood most of the time

Hot

always room for one more  

[KnightofPhoenix]

kromify wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...


bittersweet. just the way i like it   <3

My mood most of the time

Hot

always room for one more  

Yea, just don't squeeze too hard, there's plenty for both.



Oh lord what is happening

[kromify]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...


bittersweet. just the way i like it   <3

My mood most of the time

Hot

always room for one more  

Yea, just don't squeeze too hard, there's plenty for both.



Oh lord what is happening

just shut your eyes and let me take you to those places you never thought you'd go  

and the fengirls were scared of our smut... 

[ipgd]

Deliciously-Demonic wrote...

(don't remember who mentioned it, but I agree that hiring a Zevran to kill Ethina would have been so much neater then playing Jenga with the Chantry)

But... not the point. You can't exactly set yourself up to be a huge, visible martyr/revolutionary figure when you're covertly hiring assassins to take out little old ladies. He's banking on that being one of his principle contributions to the movement.

I get disagreeing with what he did, but many people seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding as to exactly what he was trying to accomplish

[KnightofPhoenix]

kromify wrote...
just shut your eyes and let me take you to those places you never thought you'd go  

I am intrigued. And curious, is there a place I never thought I'd go to? hmm

[kromify]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

kromify wrote...
just shut your eyes and let me take you to those places you never thought you'd go  

I am intrigued. And curious, is there a place I never thought I'd go to? hmm

have a pancake... i chose it specially 

[KnightofPhoenix]

kromify wrote...
have a pancake... i chose it specially 

Onom nom nom!

No but seriously, I love pancakes.

[Addai]

ipgd wrote...
I get disagreeing with what he did, but many people seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding as to exactly what he was trying to accomplish

Similarly, I can totally get and sort of respect the mindset that runs "Chantry? blow the woodchuckers all to hell!"  A "Because We've Got Bigger Guns" approach- especially since, undoubtedly, the mages do have bigger guns.

I just don't get, and don't really want to get, the "it's for the children!" puppies and butterflies defense of what Anders did.  All too often that's what I see, and it's grating.  The other one at least seems more honest to me.

Modifié par Addai67, 28 juin 2011 - 10:14 .

[Shacary]

Im with the minority I guess too. I dont care for Anders. I did find him amusing in DAA, but oghren was the only other humor alternative, and enuff said about that stereotypical dwarf the better imo.
I found Anders to be like a... well I keep sayign this but a drug addict. the whining, the manipulation, the rage spells. HE might have a pretty face grpahic, but the personality was all Alarm setting off to me. I totally couldnt get into him, and I remember thinking in DAA it would be fun to romance him... BOY was I disappointed with him in this game.
Some say it is Justice that changes him, well whatever it is , I dont care. I dont like the Fenders stuff , but I do appreciate great story telling and artwork whatever the context, altho I have to say most of the stories that paints Anders as a ultrusic gentle mage, really dont sit well with me. I dont/didnt see him that way in Da2 at all. Sure he ran the clinic, And it could be argued " It paid for his concealment from the templars." altho tbh I think the GW status alone shoudl have nicked that in the bob anyways.
I am not saying he didnt have a point about the mage suppression, sometimes he did, but good grief the way he presented it drove me INSANE!

[kromify]

Addai67 wrote...

ipgd wrote...
I get disagreeing with what he did, but many people seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding as to exactly what he was trying to accomplish

Similarly, I can totally get and sort of respect the mindset that runs "Chantry? blow the woodchuckers all to hell!"  A "Because We've Got Bigger Guns" approach- especially since, undoubtedly, the mages do have bigger guns.

I just don't get, and don't really want to get, the "it's for the children!" puppies and butterflies defense of what Anders did.  All too often that's what I see, and it's grating.  The other one at least seems more honest to me.

it's not the size of the gun. it's the way you line up you're shot!  

[kromify]

Shacary wrote...

Im with the minority I guess too. I dont care for Anders. I did find him amusing in DAA, but oghren was the only other humor alternative, and enuff said about that stereotypical dwarf the better imo.
I found Anders to be like a... well I keep sayign this but a drug addict. the whining, the manipulation, the rage spells. HE might have a pretty face grpahic, but the personality was all Alarm setting off to me. I totally couldnt get into him, and I remember thinking in DAA it would be fun to romance him... BOY was I disappointed with him in this game.
Some say it is Justice that changes him, well whatever it is , I dont care. I dont like the Fenders stuff , but I do appreciate great story telling and artwork whatever the context, altho I have to say most of the stories that paints Anders as a ultrusic gentle mage, really dont sit well with me. I dont/didnt see him that way in Da2 at all. Sure he ran the clinic, And it could be argued " It paid for his concealment from the templars." altho tbh I think the GW status alone shoudl have nicked that in the bob anyways.
I am not saying he didnt have a point about the mage suppression, sometimes he did, but good grief the way he presented it drove me INSANE!

he was his own worst enemy.

apart from meredith. and alrik. and rolan. oh dear...   

[DaiyoukaiGeisha]

kromify wrote...

he was his own worst enemy.

apart from meredith. and alrik. and rolan. oh dear...   

Exactly. Trying to find a sane person in Kirkwall is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Even the Arishok lost his mind after being in Kirkwall so long. It must be the water.

[ipgd]

Addai67 wrote...

Similarly, I can totally get and sort of respect the mindset that runs "Chantry? blow the woodchuckers all to hell!"  A "Because We've Got Bigger Guns" approach- especially since, undoubtedly, the mages do have bigger guns.

I just don't get, and don't really want to get, the "it's for the children!" puppies and butterflies defense of what Anders did.  All too often that's what I see, and it's grating.  The other one at least seems more honest to me.

And I am neither, since my only investment is in whatever makes for interesting narrative analyses and I have no particular concern for subjective perceptions of right or wrong beyond the observation and acknowledgment of a deliberate narrative goal of facilitating an issue with purposefully designed difficult moral conflicts !?

[SurrealSadi]

DaiyoukaiGeisha wrote...

kromify wrote...

he was his own worst enemy.

apart from meredith. and alrik. and rolan. oh dear...   

Exactly. Trying to find a sane person in Kirkwall is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Even the Arishok lost his mind after being in Kirkwall so long. It must be the water.

It's not the water. Go read the Enigma Of Kirkwall codex.

Long story short, the Veil there is so flarking thin, it's no wonder there's so many mages, shades, insanity....