55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Ceridwen]

Arquen wrote...
In another theory in my head I imagine Fenris being quite irked when people call them tattoos. I mean, they look like ink but that is nothing like what they are. When people try to relate by going "hey I have a tattoo," I think Fenris would be quite annoyed with the comparison.

I would imagine it would be like walking up to a gunshot wound victim and saying "hey, I have a tattoo that looks like a bullet hole. I feel your pain, man." It's like not even in the same league let alone something that can be compared. Not like it is a "sore" subject, just I think Fenris would get tired of people calling them something less than what they are. I think that is why he is so quick to correct them and correct them by explaining how they are lyrium and were branded on him.

GUYS I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE IN SO LONG AND I SEE SO MANY NEW FACES
SO MANY PAGES TO CATCH UP ON
/overwhelmed

Anyway.
There is one conversation between Fenris and Carver along these lines:
Carver: You know, Fenris, I have a tattoo.
Fenris: You have a what?
Carver: A tattoo. A lot of us got them before Ostagar. It's a Mabari. For strength.
Fenris: Does it curse you with the ability to reach into a man and tear out his insides?
Carver: Uh. I can make it bark.
Fenris: Please don't.

The last line varies depending on the companions you bring along, but I agree that he gets quite irked at the comparison. But everyone gets irked by Carver's inanity, so... 

Modifié par kwintessa, 11 juillet 2011 - 05:46 .

[tankgirly]

@kwintessa, welcome back! I miss the old faces from the old time. Do drop by more often now!

[Friera]

<---- Wtf... That ain´t Caim. Straaange my avatar shows Fenris.

[tankgirly]

@Friera, I will be delighted if my avatar showing anything other than those assigned one they gave us. Unfortunately my computer is old and cannot be put up with such an advance programe.

[Meeszy Alexy]

Friera: Ahaha wow. Lucky you! My avatar just shows my current rogue girl in DA2. Yes, she is romancing Fenris.

[Arquen]

You can make your avatar anything you want on here. Just takes a bit of photoshop majik. I have a Fenris icon sitting in my profile, but I choose to wear my Hawke one here nowadays.

There was a tutorial on it somewhere. No advanced programs needed or anything. Just whatever avatar you want in the right dimensions (146x146).

Found the ones that helped me:

http://social.biowar...2113/blog/4817/

and

http://social.biowar...index/3141893/1

Also, @Kwintessa. That conversation is in my mind as well when I think about Fenris. I also think about the conversation he has with Isabela where he actually makes a joke of it.

---------------------
Isabela: I enjoy a man with markings like that.

Fenris: You've enjoyed many, I suspect.

Isabela: Where I come from, they're called "tattoos." Sailors get them all the time.

Fenris: Not made of lyrium, I'd imagine.

Isabela: Not a one. And the pictures are different—usually breasts.

Fenris: I suppose a pair of lyrium breasts tattooed onto my chest would make things better.

Isabela: That's me. I'm a helper.
------------------

He still corrects her and reinforces the lyrium bit, but he isn't as perturbed or annoyed in this conversation as he is in the others. Perhaps because Isabela acknowledged it by saying "not a one" letting Fenris know that she understands the distinction. Still, with carver and the others they sort of try to make a connection with Fenris by being all.. "sooo about those tattoos.. those are nice..." which I think just annoys Fenris more than anything because they aren't nice, and they aren't something he got voluntarily.

Modifié par Arquen, 11 juillet 2011 - 08:42 .

[tankgirly]

@Arquen, the thing is, my PC is not even capable of running the character creator. Le sigh.

[ReiSilver]

Arquen wrote...
He still corrects her and reinforces the lyrium bit, but he isn't as perturbed or annoyed in this conversation as he is in the others. Perhaps because Isabela acknowledged it by saying "not a one" letting Fenris know that she understands the distinction. Still, with carver and the others they sort of try to make a connection with Fenris by being all.. "sooo about those tattoos.. those are nice..." which I think just annoys Fenris more than anything because they aren't nice, and they aren't something he got voluntarily.

Merrill tries it too, though now that I think about it when he points out it's not valasline since the markings are made of lyrium, she doesn't skip a beat, she's just like 'nope they're made of our blood.' it only now occurred to me that maybe she just doesn't know a better word for it. (also lends credence to the idea that valasline isn't just facial tattoos since Fenris has few markings on his face.)
Did anyone else get the feeling Fenris almost enjoyed talking about the markings in tht particular dialogue? Especialy the way 'carved into my flesh' is delivered. Like he wanted to shock Merrill or maybe just liked getting across that 'you're so wrong and you don't even know it."

[Annarl]

ReiSilver wrote...

Arquen wrote...
He still corrects her and reinforces the lyrium bit, but he isn't as perturbed or annoyed in this conversation as he is in the others. Perhaps because Isabela acknowledged it by saying "not a one" letting Fenris know that she understands the distinction. Still, with carver and the others they sort of try to make a connection with Fenris by being all.. "sooo about those tattoos.. those are nice..." which I think just annoys Fenris more than anything because they aren't nice, and they aren't something he got voluntarily.

Merrill tries it too, though now that I think about it when he points out it's not valasline since the markings are made of lyrium, she doesn't skip a beat, she's just like 'nope they're made of our blood.' it only now occurred to me that maybe she just doesn't know a better word for it. (also lends credence to the idea that valasline isn't just facial tattoos since Fenris has few markings on his face.)
Did anyone else get the feeling Fenris almost enjoyed talking about the markings in tht particular dialogue? Especialy the way 'carved into my flesh' is delivered. Like he wanted to shock Merrill or maybe just liked getting across that 'you're so wrong and you don't even know it."

I always thought there was an element of shock in the delivery of that line.  Fenris always seems to push at Merrill.  Maybe because she is a blood mage and he knows where that can lead.

Does Fenris ever remember anything else about the how and why he was given the markings?  I remember something about a contest he won.  But I don't remember where that conversation is or how that conversation is started.  It's been awhile seen I have played.

[Arquen]

Fenris: Why are you watching me like that?

Merrill: You have vallaslin. The same markings that the Dalish have.

Fenris: Yours are not made of lyrium.

Merrill: No, they're made of blood. Our blood. That's what vallaslin means: blood writing. It's a mark of adulthood.

Fenris: Mine were carved into my flesh against my will, in a ritual I remember only for the agony it caused me.

Merrill: I'm... so sorry.

--------------------

Fenris and Merrill always amuse me. I believe he really does just want to shock her. He says "not made of lyrium," and she still seeks to compare them and moreso tries to connect him to the Dalish in some way. Therefore, he just puts the kibosh on the idea by telling her outright what they are.

I think he does enjoy shutting Merrill up at least, but yeah he definitely seeks to drive the "you don't know what the F your doing, woman, and it's a train wreck in slow motion...." idea. I don't know if "enjoyed" talking about the markings is the right words exactly, but I think he definitely enjoyed getting to Merrill with an example of what magic does in the wrong hands.

good Fenris convo too...

Hawke: You have an issue with mages?
Fenris: I have an issue with magic and those who are careless with it.

See, if he was all "kill all mages" then he would be like "damn right I got issues with mages! RAweR." Instead he makes the distinction -- magic and mages who are careless, not simply all mages.

[Meeszy Alexy]

Arquen wrote...

Hawke: You have an issue with mages?
Fenris: I have an issue with magic and those who are careless with it.

See, if he was all "kill all mages" then he would be like "damn right I got issues with mages! RAweR." Instead he makes the distinction -- magic and mages who are careless, not simply all mages.

Here's another two conversations that prove your point further:

• Anders: By now, you must see what an injustice the templars are.
• Fenris: Must I? I see templars trying to control what they have good reason to fear.
• Anders: But they go too far.
• Fenris: Talk to Hawke about his/her mother. Ask him/her who went "too far."
• Anders: You can't hold all mages responsible for that!
• Fenris: It doesn't take all mages to cause this. Only the weak ones.

───────

• Anders: Not all mages are weak.

If Hawke is a mage:

• Fenris: True. Hawke, for instance, is not weak.

Otherwise:

• Fenris: True. Bethany, for instance, was not weak.
• Anders: You specifically don't mention me.
• Fenris: That's also true.
• Anders: I'll prove to you that I'm not weak
• Fenris: Prove it to yourself. You're convincing no one else.

Modifié par Meeszy Alexy, 11 juillet 2011 - 04:27 .

[Friera]

omearaee wrote...

ReiSilver wrote...

Arquen wrote...
He still corrects her and reinforces the lyrium bit, but he isn't as perturbed or annoyed in this conversation as he is in the others. Perhaps because Isabela acknowledged it by saying "not a one" letting Fenris know that she understands the distinction. Still, with carver and the others they sort of try to make a connection with Fenris by being all.. "sooo about those tattoos.. those are nice..." which I think just annoys Fenris more than anything because they aren't nice, and they aren't something he got voluntarily.

Merrill tries it too, though now that I think about it when he points out it's not valasline since the markings are made of lyrium, she doesn't skip a beat, she's just like 'nope they're made of our blood.' it only now occurred to me that maybe she just doesn't know a better word for it. (also lends credence to the idea that valasline isn't just facial tattoos since Fenris has few markings on his face.)
Did anyone else get the feeling Fenris almost enjoyed talking about the markings in tht particular dialogue? Especialy the way 'carved into my flesh' is delivered. Like he wanted to shock Merrill or maybe just liked getting across that 'you're so wrong and you don't even know it."

I always thought there was an element of shock in the delivery of that line.  Fenris always seems to push at Merrill.  Maybe because she is a blood mage and he knows where that can lead.

Does Fenris ever remember anything else about the how and why he was given the markings?  I remember something about a contest he won.  But I don't remember where that conversation is or how that conversation is started.  It's been awhile seen I have played.

Yes, its when he meets his sister. If you make Fenris hesitate to kill her, she yells at him saying he was competing - wanting - to have the markings done to him. Which makes me think that Fenris and Denarius (or however his name is spelled) where closer before the ritual. Since he wanted them at some point... 

[tankgirly]

by syd4798

[Harle Cerulean]

Friera wrote...


Yes, its when he meets his sister. If you make Fenris hesitate to kill her, she yells at him saying he was competing - wanting - to have the markings done to him. Which makes me think that Fenris and Denarius (or however his name is spelled) where closer before the ritual. Since he wanted them at some point... 

Oh god, my entire post got eaten by my connection once.  Let's try this again . . . if it's not coherent, I blame the fact that I had to redo it.

My interpretation was not that Leto's motivation in entering the (unspecified, but presumed to be martial) competition was to win the markings; it was to win, and recieve the boon that came along with winning, in order to use it to free his mother and sister from slavery.  I seriously doubt he was ever 'close' to Danarius.

I think it likely that had Leto been competing with the motivation of greater power for himself, he would have used that boon on himself, not to save his family.  But he did.  Intepretations may certainly vary, but in mine, he literally sacrificed himself to give his loved ones a chance at a better life - I doubt he knew that he would lose his memories, or that he had full disclosure as to what the markings were and what they would do to him, but even so, he knew he would remain a slave, and his family would be free.  He didn't expect the price of their freedom to be effectively his life - Fenris is not Leto  - and the question remains if he would have done it if he had known!

Incidently, since we know Danarius will erase Fenris' memories again if the unthinkable is done and Fenris is given back to his former master, I highly doubt it was actually the lyrium-marking ritual which erased Leto's memories, but more likely Danarius ensuring that Fenris would have no loyalties outside of him - loyalties which Leto had shown he possessed, due to his use of the boon on his family, rather than himself.

---

Unrelatedly, I have been reminded by others linking their fanfiction here . . . I've written several things involving Fenris, found here (fair warining, they're mostly NSFW).  Just for the love of all that's holy, don't read Seadragon first.  

[Friera]

But Fenris´s sister wasn´t a slave... (or was that a lie?)
And why did his sister sell him out? I wish we had some more background story in that matter. If Fenris sacrificed so much for saving his sister (did he ever mention a mother ...? ) , I think its strange it took so little for his sister to simply sell out Fenris. She even wanted to be Denerius apprentice... I guess getting out of poverty (slavery?) is a good enough reason to sell out your own brother. I always felt like his sister was very angry and felt "betrayed" by Fenris...

But the rest seems...reasonable.
Iremember Isabellas comment about Fenris and his master "glittering" together. Which I thought was funny XD

Modifié par Friera, 11 juillet 2011 - 10:47 .

[tankgirly]

Friera wrote...

But Fenris´s sister wasn´t a slave... (or was that a lie?)
And why did his sister sell him out? I wish we had some more background story in that matter. If Fenris sacrificed so much for saving his sister (did he ever mention a mother ...? ) , I think its strange it took so little for his sister to simply sell out Fenris. She even wanted to be Denerius apprentice... I guess getting out of poverty (slavery?) is a good enough reason to sell out your own brother. I always felt like his sister was very angry and felt "betrayed" by Fenris...

But the rest seems...reasonable. Just remember Isabellas comment about Fenris and his master "glittering" together.

Fenris family had been slave. It was only when Fenris volumteer to go through the lyrium marking thing he set his family free. I remembered Fenris mentioned his sister was a tailor, a dressmaker, hired and worked for other magister. She got paid for it. Yet somehow she envied Fenris, rather being trained as a mage other than being a seamstress. Charming.

[Harle Cerulean]

Friera wrote...

But Fenris´s sister wasn´t a slave... (or was that a lie?)
And why did his sister sell him out? I wish we had some more background story in that matter. If Fenris sacrificed so much for saving his sister (did he ever mention a mother ...? ) , I think its strange it took so little for his sister to simply sell out Fenris. She even wanted to be Denerius apprentice... I guess getting out of poverty (slavery?) is a good enough reason to sell out your own brother. I always felt like his sister was very angry and felt "betrayed" by Fenris...

But the rest seems...reasonable. Just remember Isabellas comment about Fenris and his master "glittering" together.

Varania wasn't a slave only because Leto used the boon he earned to free his sister and mother from slavery, as I said above, and as is stated in the game.  As for her motivations - Danarius offered her power., and quite likely there was some fear for what would happen to her if she didn't comply with Danarius, as well.

Isabela is fantasizing.  Rather creepily, I might add.  She has no idea about the facts.  She didn't know Fenris or Danarius during the time Fenris was a slave.

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 11 juillet 2011 - 10:50 .

[Friera]

I never got the part where fenris entered the competision to free his family... Hmmm... When is that stated? That changes a lot...

I remember she was a tailor, and that she agreed to trick Fenris to met her so she could be Denerius apprentice. Is that envy? (jealosy) Mixed with fear?

Yeah yeah, I know Isabela was fantatizing. As I said, I simply thought it was funny.

Modifié par Friera, 11 juillet 2011 - 10:56 .

[tankgirly]

Friera wrote...

I never got the part where fenris entered the competision to free his family... Hmmm... When is that stated? That changes a lot...

I remember she was a tailor, and that she agreed to trick Fenris to met her so she could be Denerius apprentice. Is that envy? (jealosy) Mixed with fear?

Yeah yeah, I know Isabela was fantatizing. As I said, I simply thought it was funny.

Humph...it's in the conversation triggered after you spare her life...unless you did not, then you will never know.
 

[Harle Cerulean]

Friera wrote...

I never got the part where fenris entered the competision to free his family... Hmmm... When is that stated? That changes a lot...

I remember she was a tailor, and that she agreed to trick Fenris to met her so she could be Denerius apprentice. Is that envy? (jealosy) Mixed with fear?

Yeah yeah, I know Isabela was fantatizing. As I said, I simply thought it was funny.

You edited your comment to say you simply thought it was funny after I began my reply to your original phrasing; your previous phrasing implied it meant something, not just that it was humourous, and so that is why I responded as I did.

(And it is a fairly funny exchange, though I found it a bit creepy as well.)

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 11 juillet 2011 - 11:19 .

[tankgirly]

I always thought Issie was the female version of Zevran, so I seldom took her flirty comment seriously.

[Harle Cerulean]

Oh, I hardly took it seriously, but to me there's a line - flirsty? That's cool. Friend fiction? Okay, sure, a bit weird to me with people one actually knows and not fictional characters, but whatever floats your boat. Openly fantasizing to a friend about sexualizing his status as a slave and his relationship with the former master he hates?

That's where it gets creepy, to me. XD Don't get me wrong, I love Isabela to bits, I just kind of twitch at that one.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Friera wrote...

I never got the part where fenris entered the competision to free his family... Hmmm... When is that stated? That changes a lot...

I remember she was a tailor, and that she agreed to trick Fenris to met her so she could be Denerius apprentice. Is that envy? (jealosy) Mixed with fear?

Yeah yeah, I know Isabela was fantatizing. As I said, I simply thought it was funny.

We know that Fenris entereted a competition to get the markings and used the boon to free his mother and sister, but she says that "freedom was no boon," which I take to imply that being released penniless as a "free" person on the streets of Tevinter isn't a great life, and may indeed suck more than being a slave, if you don't know how the world works. Picture Oriana if you don't take her in... probably robbed on their first day out, if they even had anything to take. That's all speculation, though.

Now, I assume that Fenris saw the whole situation as a win-win: he'd be a more valuable slave himself (and thus better treated than a random drudge), and his mother and sister would go free. I assume Danarius didn't tell him about the agony or the memory loss... rather I assume the pitch was something like "Whoever wins this contest will get markings that will make him my most valuable slave and a more powerful warrior: also - Boon!" 

We don't know that freeing his family was the only reason he took part in the competition, and we don't know if he even discussed it with his family beforehand.

[tankgirly]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Friera wrote...

I never got the part where fenris entered the competision to free his family... Hmmm... When is that stated? That changes a lot...

I remember she was a tailor, and that she agreed to trick Fenris to met her so she could be Denerius apprentice. Is that envy? (jealosy) Mixed with fear?

Yeah yeah, I know Isabela was fantatizing. As I said, I simply thought it was funny.

We know that Fenris entereted a competition to get the markings and used the boon to free his mother and sister, but she says that "freedom was no boon," which I take to imply that being released penniless as a "free" person on the streets of Tevinter isn't a great life, and may indeed suck more than being a slave, if you don't know how the world works. Picture Oriana if you don't take her in... probably robbed on their first day out, if they even had anything to take. That's all speculation, though.

Now, I assume that Fenris saw the whole situation as a win-win: he'd be a more valuable slave himself (and thus better treated than a random drudge), and his mother and sister would go free. I assume Danarius didn't tell him about the agony or the memory loss... rather I assume the pitch was something like "Whoever wins this contest will get markings that will make him my most valuable slave and a more powerful warrior: also - Boon!" 

We don't know that freeing his family was the only reason he took part in the competition, and we don't know if he even discussed it with his family beforehand.

Yeah, I agree with your idea. Those masters, real life or not, don't usually gave their slaves anything when they were kind enough to set them free, werent' they? Some good one probably spent some money hiring them, just like what Hawke can do to Oriana. I usually did that. It pissed Fenris off a bit, but once I explained the whole thing, he understood.

In HP, they have explored similar problem with slavery. Dumbledore ended up paying those elves, too.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

There's even the possibility that whoever hired Varania and her mother might have been really terrible. It's a known thing in societies where slavery is legal: as a slave you lack freedom, but you also represent an investment... you cost 100 sovereigns whether you live a year or sixty years, so it's smart business to keep you healthy and fed as long as you're useful.

If you're free, they pay you the same amount per job no matter what, and there's no need to keep you healthy or sane. If you die in a year it's no skin off your employer's nose, he loses nothing from working you to death. And while you can leave, finding other employment may be difficult.

I'm actually willing to buy Varania's explanation that freedom was no boon. It doesn't excuse her by any means, but I don't think she's lying when she says it.