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[Deliciously-Demonic]

I actually love when Varania says 'Freedom was no boon.' It's really similar to what I think Fenris is thinking about his own 'freedom' in the first acts, before Danarius' death. And really, it's not a boon if you still have to live in a place like Tevinter.

[tankgirly]

Deliciously-Demonic wrote...

I actually love when Varania says 'Freedom was no boon.' It's really similar to what I think Fenris is thinking about his own 'freedom' in the first acts, before Danarius' death. And really, it's not a boon if you still have to live in a place like Tevinter.

I totally hated when Varania said it. I wish my Hawk had the option saying: "You ungratful beetch!" 

[Giggles_Manically]

In that scene I think they both were hurling crap at each other.

Both think they had the worst life.
Both are annoyed that the other is acting they way they are.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

The thing that annoys me most about Fenris (though I also find this part of his charm at other times) is that he doesn't understand that he has abilities beyond those of normal people. When he sees someone worse off than him, he assumes it's because they're foolish or lazy, rather than because they've had misfortunes, or lacked resources. Even the sword on his back is more than most people own. I don't think he can process the idea that she would have had even fewer resources than he did.

I wish you could do something with Varania. She deserves some pity, and also needs a place where she'll stay out of trouble if you let her live. My ideal solution is to send her to the Dalish, she'll learn to love freedom there or die trying. Of course, that's my ideal solution to any problem that involves an elf. TO THE DALISH.

On that note, have you guys seen this Fenris version of the Threw it on the ground SNL digital short? Watch the original first, if you haven't seen it before. Makes me laugh so hard every time.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:24 .

[tankgirly]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

In that scene I think they both were hurling crap at each other.

Both think they had the worst life.
Both are annoyed that the other is acting they way they are.

Typical sibling, no?

EDIT



by vineyardelf

Modifié par tankgirly, 12 juillet 2011 - 04:38 .

[Shadow_Soul]

Gah! I haven't been here in forever! So many pages to catch up on. But, I suppose reading and writing fics has distracted me. So many good Fenris fanfics to read, not even half way done with the ones on ff.net, not to mention dA and other sites! Then you have all the drool worthy art and....the game itself and the melt worthy elf himself, of course.

Anyhow, figured I would ask you all for your thoughts on my current fic and it's sequel. If anybody hasn't seen it, Remember and Gone. Thanks all. Also have a good author with 4 Fenris fics with her LadyHawke, they are wonderful and most are quite sweet, she is here. Now, to go and catch up on everything I missed.

[Arquen]

Oh varania... I have no sympathy for her. I'll have to go back to our convo about this from a while ago to get my post .

As for the contest or "fought for them" it's hard to say how it all went down for sure but I imagine fenris not knowing the full price and I do think it was a more selfless act for his family. The main reasoning for that is because danarius would have no need to reveal the ritual or even the markings until the winner was chosen. All she says is "you wanted them. You fought for them." We have to infer the rest about how he fought for them and if he knew what he was buying. Im inclined to think he didn't know much about what he was getting into. After all why would danarius be specific? "Hey come on down ill wipe ur memory and cause u unforgettable agony as I brand you, but you will be valuable and your family will be free!" I just am inclined to believe he was more deceitful than that.

Also, fenris may have been valuable but I never imagine his slave life as plush. The way he describes it is that danarius wants his investment back.. not the elf wearing it. He talks about ripping his flesh off because that's the only way danarius would get them back. Also, fenris got left after that qunari attack with danarius before the fog warriors. He was a slave, if he was coveted in any way danarius would have made sure he didn't get left.

He was a pet, but other than basic needs he wasn't taken care of and even then hadrianna prevented his basic needs of food and sleep. Danarius kept him on a collar like a qunari mage. I don't see how his slave life can be better than varanias. Im sorry but I just don't care that her life was hard. She still sold him out for her chance. A chance fenris was never offered. There is a big difference there. A slaves future is certain hers was all uncertainty but there was choice.

[tankgirly]

Arquen wrote...

Oh varania... I have no sympathy for her. I'll have to go back to our convo about this from a while ago to get my post .

As for the contest or "fought for them" it's hard to say how it all went down for sure but I imagine fenris not knowing the full price and I do think it was a more selfless act for his family. The main reasoning for that is because danarius would have no need to reveal the ritual or even the markings until the winner was chosen. All she says is "you wanted them. You fought for them." We have to infer the rest about how he fought for them and if he knew what he was buying. Im inclined to think he didn't know much about what he was getting into. After all why would danarius be specific? "Hey come on down ill wipe ur memory and cause u unforgettable agony as I brand you, but you will be valuable and your family will be free!" I just am inclined to believe he was more deceitful than that.

Also, fenris may have been valuable but I never imagine his slave life as plush. The way he describes it is that danarius wants his investment back.. not the elf wearing it. He talks about ripping his flesh off because that's the only way danarius would get them back. Also, fenris got left after that qunari attack with danarius before the fog warriors. He was a slave, if he was coveted in any way danarius would have made sure he didn't get left.

He was a pet, but other than basic needs he wasn't taken care of and even then hadrianna prevented his basic needs of food and sleep. Danarius kept him on a collar like a qunari mage. I don't see how his slave life can be better than varanias. Im sorry but I just don't care that her life was hard. She still sold him out for her chance. A chance fenris was never offered. There is a big difference there. A slaves future is certain hers was all uncertainty but there was choice.

Agreed. I suspect the ritiual would like the Grey Warden joining, the detail is conceal until the last minute. Fenris probably didn't know until he stood in front of the large bowl of lyrium.

Varania is not very good in my book. She does not know what freedom is. Anders should give her some good lecturing. Perhaps shevelled a manifesto in her bag, or something.

[Arquen]

 You know I wish we could like bookmark this thread. There are so many good discussions that come up and questions that come up over and over. I wish we could be all like "see page x, fourth post down."
It happens in the Anders thread too. These threads are just so damn long now they need their own index/appendix to allow for better searching, LMAO.

That thought came to me when I was looking back for our Varania discussion. It's on page 1635-1638.
Anyways, it's been 7 hours people! I'm ashamed. I had to post before sleeps -- gotta work this week >.<.

Also, @ CGG the "threw it on the ground" thing had me laughing to tears the first time I saw it. I watch it without sound though so I sing along in my head. Makes it more hilarious to me. "MAN THis Ain't My LIFE.. I threw it on the GROUUND!" <-- that part always gets me. ALWAYS.

I wish there were more dragon age parodies. I love spoofs and parodies. I've seen some pretty hilarious ones in the past. I find it funny not many people try to spoof DA2 or DAO. Maybe I just miss the good ones *shrug.*
And finally.... Have a Fenris because we have been lacking good pics lately dammit!

A really good pic.. one of my favs....

by Deltastic on Tumblr (oh SNAP!)

[Annarl]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Friera wrote...

But Fenris´s sister wasn´t a slave... (or was that a lie?)
And why did his sister sell him out? I wish we had some more background story in that matter. If Fenris sacrificed so much for saving his sister (did he ever mention a mother ...? ) , I think its strange it took so little for his sister to simply sell out Fenris. She even wanted to be Denerius apprentice... I guess getting out of poverty (slavery?) is a good enough reason to sell out your own brother. I always felt like his sister was very angry and felt "betrayed" by Fenris...

But the rest seems...reasonable. Just remember Isabellas comment about Fenris and his master "glittering" together.

Varania wasn't a slave only because Leto used the boon he earned to free his sister and mother from slavery, as I said above, and as is stated in the game.  As for her motivations - Danarius offered her power., and quite likely there was some fear for what would happen to her if she didn't comply with Danarius, as well.

Isabela is fantasizing.  Rather creepily, I might add.  She has no idea about the facts.  She didn't know Fenris or Danarius during the time Fenris was a slave.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found that creepy.  The man was a slave.  I just didn't find it funny.  It was one of the few times I was really bothered by Isabela.  I usually can laugh at her.

[Friera]

I must say, you guys really think about everything. Its impressive... Its very entertaining to read this thread. Wish I had the patience to read every companions threads. Regardless, thank you for the help with clearing up the Fenris past misunderstanding (from my part..)

I wasn´t sure I wanted to release my drawing... But here you go *blush*

http://img3.imagesha...xhawkeliten.jpg
http://imageshack.us...hawkeliten.jpg/

Was suppose to edit it when I realized my tablet was broken. R.I.P my dear tablet.

Edit: Well, the pic doesn´t show.... How do you do it? Usually the img typo works.

Modifié par Friera, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:52 .

[Annarl]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

The thing that annoys me most about Fenris (though I also find this part of his charm at other times) is that he doesn't understand that he has abilities beyond those of normal people. When he sees someone worse off than him, he assumes it's because they're foolish or lazy, rather than because they've had misfortunes, or lacked resources. Even the sword on his back is more than most people own. I don't think he can process the idea that she would have had even fewer resources than he did.

I wish you could do something with Varania. She deserves some pity, and also needs a place where she'll stay out of trouble if you let her live. My ideal solution is to send her to the Dalish, she'll learn to love freedom there or die trying. Of course, that's my ideal solution to any problem that involves an elf. TO THE DALISH.

On that note, have you guys seen this Fenris version of the Threw it on the ground SNL digital short? Watch the original first, if you haven't seen it before. Makes me laugh so hard every time.

He doen't see his abilities because he was a slave.  And throwing off that mantle will take a lone time.  Fenris doesn't recognize his own worth as a person.  Remember the conversation he has with Sebastian.  Sebastion is trying to point  out all his achievements but Fenris can't or has a hard time seeing them.  

I do wish Fenris story line was a little longer.  I feel he didn't get his just time.  Fenris's story is complex but DA2 only seems to skim the surface. We see Danarius for just a few moments and his sister part is just as short. Well that just my opinion.:happy:

tankgilry, very cute pictures:)

Modifié par omearaee, 12 juillet 2011 - 02:40 .

[ReiSilver]

Friera wrote...


I must say, you guys really think about everything. Its impressive... Its very entertaining to read this thread. Wish I had the patience to read every companions threads. Regardless, thank you for the help with clearing up the Fenris past misunderstanding (from my part..)

I wasn´t sure I wanted to release my drawing... But here you go *blush*


http://imageshack.us...hawkeliten.jpg/

Was suppose to edit it when I realized my tablet was broken. R.I.P my dear tablet.

Edit: Well, the pic doesn´t show.... How do you do it? Usually the img typo works.

The picture is lovely! I love the expressions and Hawke looks like he is touching Fenris so gently.

To make the image show you have to link to just the picture, right click and view image will usually get you there so:
http://img3.imagesha...xhawkeliten.jpg
instead of
http://imageshack.us...xhawkeliten.jpg

[Friera]

Hopefully working now.

Thank you so much, ReiSilver

[tankgirly]

Friera wrote...



Hopefully working now.

Thank you so much, ReiSilver

Lovely, and all the details!

[Friera]

tankgirly wrote...

Friera wrote...



Hopefully working now.

Thank you so much, ReiSilver

Lovely, and all the details!

Thank you so much <3

As soon as I have my tablet up and running I will do some editing and add some more tones in PS.

[Patriciachr34]

Deliciously-Demonic wrote...

I actually love when Varania says 'Freedom was no boon.' It's really similar to what I think Fenris is thinking about his own 'freedom' in the first acts, before Danarius' death. And really, it's not a boon if you still have to live in a place like Tevinter.

Everytime she says this I can't help thinking, "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence."   I really think Fenris is too busy fighting for his freedom to consider what exactly that means.  Fenris becomes overwhelmed with the concept when he and Hawke spend the night together, mostly becauseon a certain level Fenris does not believe he deserves Hawkes love.  In essence, he still has the slave mentality.  It's not until he confronts Danarius, and his own slavery, that he reaches a point where he can think of himself as a person and not as a slave, former or otherwise.  This is when he can finally have an equal relationship with Hawke.

[ReiSilver]

I did a doodle of Fenris and Marric Hawke rocking out while drunk


deviantart link
It was very amusing to come up with the poses, I imagined Fenris head banging with this look of concentration on his face while Marric is windmilling his arm and belting out... whatever the Thedas version of punk rock is.

[Arquen]

Beautiful arts as always. I love rei's stuff always . Fenris rockin out with the lute, lol! I want one of just him like rockin out guitar solo or lute solo I should say.

Friera your sketch is lovely! You must color it! Bahh you people and your talent.

[Friera]

ReiSilver: I really like the artwork. The expressions and the pose is siply excellent. Kinda how I imagine my Hawke and Fenris drunk together. XD It would be great if you work some more with the lines, and perhaps with shades...?

[Arquen]

is that he doesn't understand that he has abilities beyond those of normal people. When he sees someone worse off than him, he assumes it's because they're foolish or lazy, rather than because they've had misfortunes, or lacked resources. Even the sword on his back is more than most people own. I don't think he can process the idea that she would have had even fewer resources than he did.

I don't think Fenris believes others foolish or lazy. I also don't think he is ignorant of the fact that he has "abilities beyond those of normal people." I mean, he effectively says as much when you first meet him that his markings give him abilities, and that he "must look strange" to Hawke because of them. He uses them with abandon because he realizes how useful they are. He states he "wouldn't be free" without them. That being said it isn't him looking down on others per say, but his lack of compassion for others, and simple apathy. I think in the end Fenris is so untrusting that he basically believes everyone is out for themselves and is only looking to use you or betray you. It's the law of someone who has been on the run and alone for a long time, and it helped Fenris survive. I saw him as just generally disliking people. Maybe he dislikes humans in general like most elves do. I just don't think he has enough compassion or empathy to make bias based on other's misfortunes. I like how he remarks about the alienage and how he "hates it" there. I see where your coming from. Taking the fact that he hates the alienage, hates how the elves live, and on top of that squats in hightown instead of going to darktown or the alienage. However, I don't think this is about the hate he feels towards others, but more an aversion to be stuck in a place that reminds him so much of his own past and home. I think he simply doesn't want to be reminded every day of their plight and suffering because he "lived it" (as he says to Merrill).

Now as far as resources. He really didn't have all that much except his own skill to survive and his weapons (himself and a sword). Now you say the sword is something most people would find valuable. To Fenris it is simply a tool. A means to an end. In his mind anyone who could wield a sword could obtain one. Fenris had to kill, steal, run, survive. I mean he had it just as hard as Varania when he left I'll bet. He didn't have money, he didn't have anyone to turn to, any means to travel. He might have had a weapon, and he said he killed the Fog Warriors but who knows if he didn't abandon his sword or just used his markings to kill them and obtained a sword later. On top of all that he also had Danarius actively hunting him down. The only reason he was truly able to escape is because Danarius didn't "start the hunt in earnest" until after he had recovered from the Fog Warrior's injuries. That was rather luck, or fate.

The one thing that gets me is the armor. That is his armor that Danarius no doubt had him wearing all the time and he had it with the Fog Warriors and it is probably the only clothing he owns. I think he keeps it because it is his, and perhaps he feels like it defines him in some way. A connection to who and what Fenris is and was. I think his armor is more important than his sword as a personal item at least. In the conversation when they ask Fenris why he doesn't simply "cover" his markings, he basically says he is tired of running, and I think his armor is a big part of that. It is like a giant target that says "here I am.. come get me if you dare!" That is most important I think. It isn't really a resource, but I see why Fenris never wanted to leave that armor behind. As for the sword I doubt he kept or had a sword when he ran. In my head I see him just blindly running, not knowing where or how he was going to escape only that this time he wasn't going to go back. He wasn't ever going to do what he did to the Fog Warriors again.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I got the impression of Fenris's negative outlook on people in general from his short story... where he reveals his thoughts about the Dalish and city elves, how he thinks they are as they are because they lack the will to fight.

Here's the relevant passage:

There was nothing in the alley save for a few lone rats and an elven vagrant asleep against a garbage heap. Fenris paused and stared at the man in disgust. He’d thought to blend in more once he’d escaped the Imperium. In a land where elves were free, certainly one more elf would go unnoticed? He’d been a fool, of course. How was he to know that so many of his people would squander their freedom living like frightened cattle? If his only choices were to either dress as meekly as the local humans expected their elves to be, run off to find the wandering clans that grubbed in the dirt for whatever scraps the human kingdoms threw them, or to fight… then his choice was clear.

When I say that Fenris has his sword and that's more than most, I'm not suggesting he sell it... rather I'm suggesting that having a decent weapon and armor and the ability to wield it at all, even without lyrium markings, is a huge step above where most elves are. The elves don't have a revolution because society has been designed in such a way that they can never gather the resources to start one. An independent elf who isn't as strong as Fenris can't move out of the alienage and start living a normal life because, as they say in the city elf origins, nine times out of ten some human racists will burn their house down and they'll have to come running back.

This problem of Elvenkind is also the primary reason I have any level of sympathy for Merril and what she does. She may be the last hope for elves in the same way that Anders is the last hope for mages. I still think it's foolish and that, with elves, there's definitely a better way, definitely some alliances to be made with Ferelden and Rivain. But I can see why Merril would feel driven to it. I'm not saying that I think Elven freedom is Fenris's fight. It isn't. But he thinks that the elves living in the alienages are squandering their freedom, and he doesn't understand how very difficult it would be for them to break free from their situation. He doesn't understand that the Dalish are as they are because it was the only way to retain true freedom under the edict of the Alienages.

As for who had it tougher, Fenris or Varania, well I think it's impossible to know. I can certainly imagine Varania having it worse, but I have a rather horrible imagination. I tend to see the city elf origin as "just about normal" for what a free elf can expect in Ferelden, and if things are worse in Tevinter well... I'll leave you to extrapolate. I don't think it's necessarily true that she had a harder life, and I think that Varania may not understand the difficulty Fenris has gone through, but in Alone he does walk through the door with powerful friends, so without a doubt I'd say he has ended up in a far far better position. And that's all Varania has to go by... here she is, still with every aspect of her life under control by the Magisters, and her brother walks in free, proud, surrounded by friends. I don't think she's justified in doing what she did (although I do think there's a high percentage chance that Danarius set her up as a trap, that he contacted her the moment Fenris escaped and has been watching her and manipulating her life ever since), but I also see her as someone who has had no one show her any kindness or support since her mother died. As I said before, Fenris at least had the example of the Fog Warriors, which is probably far more kindness and freedom than Varania ever experienced.

I can actually imagine Varania turning Fenris in for much the same reasons that Fenris killed the fog warriors: a magister asks something of you, and you do it.

That's why I want to do something for her, specifically send her to the Dalish. There she'll at least experience friendship and acceptance, and if she decides she can't deal with living like that and runs off, then she deserves whatever she gets.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 13 juillet 2011 - 07:40 .

[FenrisDeSolar]

I feel sorry for Varania. She has to remember a life that Fenris has forgotten. She never got a chance to start anew, unlike her brother. Somehow I always feel like losing his memory was a mercy, not a curse. Mostly because I think of Fenris as proud. If he was still Leto when he was broken, tamed, marked, I don't think he'd have fared as well. If he knew what he had lost, he might have attempted escape earlier, but I doubt he would have succeeded. Likely he would become blinded by desperation and probably even more resentful that he appears in game.

As for why Varania turned Fenris in, I'll have to agree that she did it simply because a Magister asked, and offered her power in return. That whole situation actually reminded me of Fenris in the Fade. But nevermind...

I actually just wanted to say I updated my fanfic again.

You can read Until We Bleed on deviantArt or FanFiction.net.

/shameless self-promotion.

[Meeszy Alexy]

CGG: This is why I so desperately want to see a elf revolution as opposed to the mage revolution. I always felt the elves had it far worse than the mages, and yet they can't do anything about it while mages do stupid things that prove that they really are a danger. The Circle isn't happy-happy-fun land generally, but in a decent Circle that's more like a boarding school than anything, a mage could still feel at home there. Not that elves can't feel at home with the Dalish or in the Alienages, but they're always under a human's scrutiny for no reason other than pure racism. At least there's some justification for people fearing and persecuting mages, because they really are that dangerous. The way the elves are, it just seems crueler in comparison. (Though I do acknowledge the horrible treatment that mages get too - it just seems like there are a lot of stupid mages.)

[CulturalGeekGirl]

The "stupid mages" thing is partially a plot convenience for the sake of making both sides seem equally reasonable. The thing about the Circle is this: while a decent one is like a boarding school theoretically, there's nothing an individual mage can do to keep a Circle decent. At a boarding school you could at least write home to your parents, and your sentence is pretty well established: once you're eighteen, you're free to go. If you've ever read any of Roald Dahl's accounts of life in a boarding school in England, you can see how a life sentence of THAT would be utterly horrifying. It's somewhere between a boarding school and an internment camp for life, and one where you can't meet someone inside and get married and start a family. With a boarding school, you're just an adolescent while you're there, so limitations on sex and love are somewhat logical... and at the same time, many couples who meet in boarding school go on to have honest relationships outside later. It's the prescription against mages marrying mages that convinces me that mages have it just as bad as elves in some respects. They gain comfort in exchange for freedom, but at least elves have the hope that family and love may bring. "Free" elves, that is... I think that tevinter slaves no doubt have it worse than mages.

If I had to be born into Thedas, I'd pick to be a Dalish elf I think. A human noble is tempting, because you get all the power and wealth but there's also a decent chance an assassin will come and kill you in your bed, and there's all that duty nonsense to keep you from doing what you really want in life; if you fall in love with a commoner, you can't marry them, and all that. The existence of the Dalish also gives elves a slight advantage, situation wise, over the mages. A truly screwed over city elf can always go look for the clans; there's nowhere for a mage to run, or Anders would have run there. If tomorrow every elf in the alienages left their cities for the wilds, human society would fall apart. I know that can't happen, that the wilderness probably can't support the entire elven population of Thedas, but it's still funny to think about.

My first priority is an elf revolution, (Hopefully led by my Mahariel, who is far, far saner than my Tabris), but my Mahariel would be sympathetic to both Anders and Fenris. She'd blow up a hundred chantries to free elves and no mistake, so she doesn't see what Anders did as morally wrong... just badly timed and poorly orchestrated. She thinks that the elves and the mages could find common cause, as the Dalish view mages as a part of the community rather than a dangerous force. It's Mahariel's opinion that all mage craziness is the Chantry's fault, and if not the Chantry, then Tevinter... Tevinter, not magic itself. Baby steps, though. First the Chantry, then Tevinter. My Hawke feels the same way: freedom for everybody, the oppressed should find common cause together, etc etc. The Chantry is what killed the Dales, and it's what keeps the Dalish from settling a new land: the Templars will come after the keepers, and we will not let them. It was also the Chantry that established the alienage system, and banned the worship of the elven gods. It's hard for me to picture an elven revolution that was also not significantly anti-Chantry, is what I'm saying.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 13 juillet 2011 - 10:54 .