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[Lilunebrium]

Edit: Eek. Keeping different threads open screws up big time. 

Nothing to see here. Move along, people.

Modifié par Lilunebrium, 03 août 2011 - 07:05 .

[Ineffable Igor]

Arquen wrote...

6 hours!? Where is everyone!?

Anyways, was browsing Tumblr -- WHY!? -- also rewatching Code Geass for like the 50th time and I'm browsing Tumblr all nonchalantly when I found this....

http://toxictigress....post/8406783408

I laughed way more than I should have.

My internet died with no warning!  I know though, I hate coming in here and seeing a "posted 12 hours ago" or whatever.  It usually sends me to the Anders thread and then I feel sad because very few of them have a charitable view our favorite elf.  I seem doomed to adoring polarizing characters.  *Glares at Loghain*

Anyway, as far as the srs bsns conversation is concerned, I just don't think that Danarius would put that much thought into controlling anyone who was already a slave.  I think he's too arrogant and villain-y (I think it was UpsettingShorts who  once referred to him as a Snidely Whiplash, that made me grin, I miss Shorts) to feel that there was any reason he wouldn't be able to control someone who was already a slave.  He's a complete sadist, certainly manipulative to a degree, but he never struck me as particularly clever.  Different character interpretations I suppose and different assumptions about how Leto was before he became Fenris.  We are going to have to agree to disagree. 

And OMG, that tumblr link is...hilarious and disturbingly accurate.  Especially this one:


That's pretty much how I feel every time I offer to teach him to read.  Stupid stubborn elf man. <_<

EDIT:

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I almost think that his mind isn't so much wiped as its stored inside of the markings. The dwarves invented a way to store memories within lyrium (See codex entry for lyrium).  Theoreticly, the ritual could have inadvertently transfered Leto's memories into the markings and every so often activating them jostles something loose. At least its not like Thane in ME2 who just stops and recalls things at random times.

That is an extremely interesting theory.  This why you're a doctor.  
 

Modifié par Ineffable Igor, 03 août 2011 - 07:17 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Ineffable Igor wrote...

Arquen wrote...

6 hours!? Where is everyone!?

Anyways, was browsing Tumblr -- WHY!? -- also rewatching Code Geass for like the 50th time and I'm browsing Tumblr all nonchalantly when I found this....

http://toxictigress....post/8406783408

I laughed way more than I should have.

My internet died with no warning!  I know though, I hate coming in here and seeing a "posted 12 hours ago" or whatever.  It usually sends me to the Anders thread and then I feel sad because very few of them have a charitable view our favorite elf.  I seem doomed to adoring polarizing characters.  *Glares at Loghain*

*snip*

Different character interpretations I suppose and different assumptions about how Leto was before he became Fenris.  We are going to have to gree to disagree. 

And OMG, that tumblr link is...hilarious and disturbingly accurate.  Especially this one:


Tht's how I feel everytime I offer to teach him to read.  Stupid stubborn elf man. <_<
 

Left the .gif because yes, I get this with some of Fenris's er...more cranky moments, and because I'm procrastinating studying for an exam by posting right now and mentally framing a couple more fic chapters. Argh. Less than 24 hours till complete slacktitude, at least!  

You know, I used to loathe Loghain (I no longer do). And I used to get my back up at the Alistair 'haters' (as opposed to the discussers - I'm looking at you KoP ) .I think it's wonderful of the writing team to create such controversy - it means we 'adopt' the characters and care enough to defend them passionately. 

Speaking of controversy:  I love the theory that the memories could be (inadvertently or not) stored in the lyrium. Since it seems that Fenris's markings respond to his anger, if there are other, more residual memories in the lyrium, it might be an explanation for why other emotions tend to 'jar' memories loose. It also might suggest why Danarius has had to wipe his memory more than once (which is suggested if you hand him back in *SHUDDER*). Maybe 'wiping' any residual memories in the lyrium would ruin the abilities it confers, so it's a necessary complication?

It certainly wouldn't be the first example of this I've seen. If you've read Brian Sanderson's Mistborn series (for those who haven't, 'magic' is based on properties of metals, for those who have the ability to 'burn' or otherwise access them), he makes reference to 'metal minds' being used by Keepers to keep their massive archives of information. (OT)((And if you haven't read this series and are looking for something, I seriously recommend them!)(/OT)

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 03 août 2011 - 07:29 .

[Ineffable Igor]

UrsulaCousland wrote...

You know, I used to loathe Loghain (I no longer do). And I used to get my back up at the Alistair 'haters' (as opposed to the discussers - I'm looking at you KoP ) .I think it's wonderful of the writing team to create such controversy - it means we 'adopt' the characters and care enough to defend them passionately. 

Part of why I can't get enough of BioWare.  No one has the exact same feelings on a character.  I don't think there's one character in the whole series who no one cares about at all, whether they love them or hate them. 

[Dr. Doctor]

omearaee wrote...

That is interesting.  I wonder could Fenris learn to trigger the memories.  He has learned to use them to help his fighting abilities.  It could mean that he could use the markings to store information on too.  Maybe aiding him in learning languages.

When I read that post all I could think of is this.

[Ineffable Igor]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

omearaee wrote...

That is interesting.  I wonder could Fenris learn to trigger the memories.  He has learned to use them to help his fighting abilities.  It could mean that he could use the markings to store information on too.  Maybe aiding him in learning languages.

When I read that post all I could think of is this.

You deserve over 9000 internets for drawing that comparison.  I am laughing like a complete fool.

[nitefyre410]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

omearaee wrote...

That is interesting.  I wonder could Fenris learn to trigger the memories.  He has learned to use them to help his fighting abilities.  It could mean that he could use the markings to store information on too.  Maybe aiding him in learning languages.

When I read that post all I could think of is this.

You are my god damn hero for this...    

Now all i  hear is Fenris  talking in  Spanish 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 03 août 2011 - 10:17 .

[UrsulaCousland]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

omearaee wrote...

That is interesting.  I wonder could Fenris learn to trigger the memories.  He has learned to use them to help his fighting abilities.  It could mean that he could use the markings to store information on too.  Maybe aiding him in learning languages.

When I read that post all I could think of is this.

You are my god damn hero for this...    

Now all i  hear is Fenris  talking in  Spanish 

Oh G-I mean, Maker. 

That's the second tim today I've broken out laughing in a coffee shop. Thanks, Doc! (The first was the Penny Arcade cartoon about FemShep - OT but still darn funny!)

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 03 août 2011 - 11:13 .

[Sepewrath]

Lilunebrium wrote...
I don't think you realize how wholesome a memory wipe is. It's not just persons that go missing from your mind, but culture, history, manners, -everything-.
It's pretty much as if Danarius was handed a newborn. Danarius' world became Fenris', and while he may have been disgusted by what he saw and what he experienced, I imagine that to him, it was merely the way the world worked. His master holds all the power, slaves get abused, he himself is powerless. 

It's not until he gets left behind at Seheron that he realizes just how wrong everything in his life is. It was his wake-up call, he pretty much says so himself when Hawke asks about it.

I'm well aware and that's why he would have not done it on purpose. Why shape a newborn when you already shaped him? Like Fenris said, a slave doesn't dream of freedom, so its unlikely that he has any illusions before the memory wipe of freedom. He was promised a better life for his family, otherwise he would of had no reason to fight to become cherished property of Danarius; unless he was head of heels about pleasing the master. In which case, you definitely wouldn't erase that kind of thought pattern. Whether it be because of his family or wanting to be the best slave ever, his reasoning for going through with it, is something you want him to remember. 

[Sealy]

Uhg, the pain of watching that scene where you give Fenris back to Danarius. So, so bad.

[Ineffable Igor]

Fleshdress wrote...

Uhg, the pain of watching that scene where you give Fenris back to Danarius. So, so bad.

It wouldn't be so bad if he was just pissed as hell at your betrayal and you had to fight him with Danarius's help or something.  But the way he just gives up and goes with him is horrible.  Even after all that time, all it takes is a betrayal to completely shatter his will to be free.  It makes more sense if you're in a romance, but the same thing happens even if you have maxed out rivalry and no romance, so...

Maker's breath, but he's damaged.  Boy needs love.  Lots and lots of love!   

[tankgirly]

"This is interesting."



by dogsndragons

[Ryzaki]

Poor Carver gets no love. D:

[tsunderes]

So I opened up my firs playthrough post game today and played legacy with fenris merril and varric. My Marian hawke was the las of her line so I had no Carver to bring along, and instead got the reassurance Fenris gives about your father loving you and what it's like to hear him again. I thought it was quite sweet. I wish there had been more to it but was still happy.

[Sealy]

Ineffable Igor wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

Uhg, the pain of watching that scene where you give Fenris back to Danarius. So, so bad.

It wouldn't be so bad if he was just pissed as hell at your betrayal and you had to fight him with Danarius's help or something.  But the way he just gives up and goes with him is horrible.  Even after all that time, all it takes is a betrayal to completely shatter his will to be free.  It makes more sense if you're in a romance, but the same thing happens even if you have maxed out rivalry and no romance, so...

Maker's breath, but he's damaged.  Boy needs love.  Lots and lots of love!   

I hate watching him trail out after Danarius, eyes on the ground. I can't imagine ever doing that during a playthough, even if I hated him. Everything that makes him awesome is just leeched away. Makes me want to cuddle the prickly elf forever and ever. *sigh* I want an option to fight other peoples Hawkes when they give him away.

[UrsulaCousland]

tsunderes wrote...

So I opened up my firs playthrough post game today and played legacy with fenris merril and varric. My Marian hawke was the las of her line so I had no Carver to bring along, and instead got the reassurance Fenris gives about your father loving you and what it's like to hear him again. I thought it was quite sweet. I wish there had been more to it but was still happy.

I got this too. I was pleased with it, and I took it that way too.

[UrsulaCousland]

Fleshdress wrote...

Ineffable Igor wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

Uhg, the pain of watching that scene where you give Fenris back to Danarius. So, so bad.

It wouldn't be so bad if he was just pissed as hell at your betrayal and you had to fight him with Danarius's help or something.  But the way he just gives up and goes with him is horrible.  Even after all that time, all it takes is a betrayal to completely shatter his will to be free.  It makes more sense if you're in a romance, but the same thing happens even if you have maxed out rivalry and no romance, so...

Maker's breath, but he's damaged.  Boy needs love.  Lots and lots of love!   

I hate watching him trail out after Danarius, eyes on the ground. I can't imagine ever doing that during a playthough, even if I hated him. Everything that makes him awesome is just leeched away. Makes me want to cuddle the prickly elf forever and ever. *sigh* I want an option to fight other peoples Hawkes when they give him away.

I still won't watch it on Youtube or on a reload either. The descriptions are bad enough. 

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 04 août 2011 - 04:58 .

[Arquen]

on 1683 there was a pretty good discussion of the markings and the lyrium thing. I always assumed that the Lyrium they used was the most potent and deadly form, but with Tevinter Magister augmentation I would assume that yes Danarius practiced the ritual on a few subjects.

I also see it as being more like how the old magisters made Golems, except instead of a Golem body you have a living host instead.

I've said all this before so I feel deja'vu here, but as far as the markings actually holding the memories I don't really think it's as physical as that. I can accept that the memories are still there, but severed. That the way Fenris can literally phase in and out of the fade sort of "reconnects" him to emotions, and the emotions are the trigger for both his marking fueled abilities and his memories because they exist through connection with the fade.

As for Danarius and giving him back. I can buy into it completely. I know people get irked and want to see him angry and pissed and trying to kill you, to run, to do SOMETHING, but the fact is that it is beyond betrayal.

Basically everyone in the game has that one event that just throws them over the edge. Whether on friendship, rivalry, romance, or not if you betray him to Danarius it is a shattering of his psyche. He let you in, let you help him, trusted you, and in the end he realizes you thought of him as nothing but property to bargain away. It isn't that he just accepts it, but he just goes back to the same mentality he had when he was with the fog warriors. He basically just says "well, this fantasy life is over... and this is inevitable." Moreover I think he believes that if Hawke can betray him than anyone can, and even if he were to fight Hawke AND Danarius what would be the point. What is the point of freedom if the people you call friend or deeply respect end up treating you the same way that Danarius did in the first place? Might as well just be a slave/bodyguard and live that life again. Seriously, it is a broken thought process, but it is his breaking point. I can buy that he won't fight, because he loses his will to be free at that point. When freedom offers nothing but loneliness and betrayal then what is the point anymore?

[Meeszy Alexy]

Fleshdress wrote...

Ineffable Igor wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

Uhg, the pain of watching that scene where you give Fenris back to Danarius. So, so bad.

It wouldn't be so bad if he was just pissed as hell at your betrayal and you had to fight him with Danarius's help or something.  But the way he just gives up and goes with him is horrible.  Even after all that time, all it takes is a betrayal to completely shatter his will to be free.  It makes more sense if you're in a romance, but the same thing happens even if you have maxed out rivalry and no romance, so...

Maker's breath, but he's damaged.  Boy needs love.  Lots and lots of love!   

I hate watching him trail out after Danarius, eyes on the ground. I can't imagine ever doing that during a playthough, even if I hated him. Everything that makes him awesome is just leeched away. Makes me want to cuddle the prickly elf forever and ever. *sigh* I want an option to fight other peoples Hawkes when they give him away.

Danarius makes the scene worse with his creepiness.*shudder* The response to "Let's make a deal" (Not "You can have him") is creepy enough. I just hope that my mind was looking far too much into it...

[darkrose]

Need a bit of romance help here:

I've done Bitter Pill and the followups. Fenris is wearing the favor (in the sexy alternate outfit mod). Part of my personal canon for this Hawke is that he almost sleeps with Anders after Fenris walks out, but he realizes at the last moment that he can't do it.

The game lets me play out this scenario. I'm worried, though, that proceeding with Anders to the point where he visits the estate will end things with Fenris permanently, even if I don't actually sleep with Anders. Has anyone else tried this?

[Arquen]

A lot of us have done this. Including myself. As long as you send Anders on his way after he blabs about Fenris being a beast it will NOT break the romance.

Also, if you go to anyone else in Act 2 even flirtations, inviting them over, etc. it can break the romance sometimes. If you only go to Anders and DON'T sleep with him it should work fine.

[Meeszy Alexy]

^ Seconded. My Blood Mage Zack Hawke slept with Fenris and would've slept with Anders if he wasn't so daft to mention Fenris, which made him realise that Fenris was the guy for him. The reason why Anders asks if you're still into Fenris is because the game's giving you a chance to say "No wait I want the Fenmance" before sleeping with Anders.

[Heidenreich]

darkrose wrote...

Need a bit of romance help here:

I've done Bitter Pill and the followups. Fenris is wearing the favor (in the sexy alternate outfit mod). Part of my personal canon for this Hawke is that he almost sleeps with Anders after Fenris walks out, but he realizes at the last moment that he can't do it.

The game lets me play out this scenario. I'm worried, though, that proceeding with Anders to the point where he visits the estate will end things with Fenris permanently, even if I don't actually sleep with Anders. Has anyone else tried this?

Si si, what the ladies above me have stated. You can flirt with Anders till he's blue in the face. He;ll come to your house After the oh-so-smexy kiss and be like, bla bla bla, are you sure about this?I thought you and Fenris, though he really is more dog then man..


and then you hit the "wtf dont say that about fenris!" broken heart option. (It'll be on the left) and you'll tell Anders off and tell him you still love Fenris.

[Annarl]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

omearaee wrote...

That is interesting.  I wonder could Fenris learn to trigger the memories.  He has learned to use them to help his fighting abilities.  It could mean that he could use the markings to store information on too.  Maybe aiding him in learning languages.

When I read that post all I could think of is this.

That was awesome!!

[Patriciachr34]

darkrose wrote...

Need a bit of romance help here:

I've done Bitter Pill and the followups. Fenris is wearing the favor (in the sexy alternate outfit mod). Part of my personal canon for this Hawke is that he almost sleeps with Anders after Fenris walks out, but he realizes at the last moment that he can't do it.

The game lets me play out this scenario. I'm worried, though, that proceeding with Anders to the point where he visits the estate will end things with Fenris permanently, even if I don't actually sleep with Anders. Has anyone else tried this?

I also did this on my last play through and Fenris came back to me in Act 3.  It wa a total turn off to hear Anders call Fenris a "beast".  I just couldn't choose the, "I love you." option at that point.