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[nitefyre410]

Arquen wrote...

Ok if fenris turns on you there is an option to get him back. If he meets you with his templar posse its to late.

My bf didn't even do his last qb quest and still got him back. I find it so strange how people have to kill him with no options. He's always sided with me and if he betrays you he most of the time has the option to go back.

The only one im not sure about is rival... if he leaves you on rival I don't think you can convince him back. But I know for sure you don't have to even do his last qb quest to get him back.

It boggles my mind. Just because I can't even get him to betray me... I would have to try at it for that result. My kneejerk reaction is to be like "what did you do wrong?!" When people say that they killed him lol.

Yeah I believe was leaning heavy into the rival at that point but honest it  fit how he and hawke( A male rogue) saw each other. I was not upset but just ..."damn well that kinda sucked." they had a Snake and  Grey Fox kind vibe going to if ya get the reference.

[Arquen]

Even on nonromance play I love the gallows scene with fenris. It would feel so empty without his final battle pep talk. I want a shirt that says only the living know victory. Then the respectful bow, I get all pumped. Everyone else is like ohh noes we in trouble this sucks im nervous boo hoos. Fenris is like les do this hawke! Death be damned! I love it.

Plus im like the only crazy person who thinks if you kill fenris you betray him more than he betrays you... that line he says about "should have known... first rule of survival." Im like.. "d'oh, im sorry I suck and didn't convince you otherwise. Sorrry I failed as a friend. Truce? Hehe?"

[Sealy]

I love a lot of Fenris pairings. Fenris/Merrill, Fenris/Isabela, Fenris/Sebastian  My fave being Fenris/Hawke/Isabela, and second being Fenris/Hawke. The only one I can't see, is Fenris/Anders, even when people write the charcters with their proper voice, it still seems very OOC for me. This does not mean I don't think people should like them.

What are peoples opinion on the pairing Fenris/Anders?  I can see some peoples draw to Anders. The guy is 13 exotic shaded of messed up and if he weren't so... unlike how he was before, I would be all over that hot mess. I can't get him with Fenris. I am no stranger to pairing up enemies, Harry.Draco, Morrigan/Alistair, even Meredith and Orsino. I can see those people having some delicious hate/love relationships. To me it is because there is passion behind their hate. I do not see that passion between Fenris and Anders, they hate it seems with indifference. They are brutally in hate and I can't see someone shifting that so that they are in charcter and in love, or even attracted. I dunno. I don't think it's my dislike of Anders but who knows.  

Edit: Either do discuss or move past but as soon as I was done posting I went to read in the Anders thread and found them discussing almost the same thing so I think I may scan that if no one wants to shed light for me... though it doesn seem most of the posts I have read so far that people agree with not pairing them.  Must find a fenders shipper and see what they think!

Modifié par Fleshdress, 06 août 2011 - 08:25 .

[Arquen]

Oh fenders... it would be nice to have this discussion in the fenris thread for once. Though im sick of the argument personally.

For my pov im pretty much against the idea of fenders. It just doesn't make sense at all. They do hate eachother. If you took hawke out of the picture then they would never have had any kind of interaction at all. I just don't see them reconciling enough to get to that point.

Fenris will never accept what Anders did with justice. He is pure abomination in fenris' eyes. He has another being controlling his actions at times and then has the audacity to think he is harmless to others because justice is special. Fenris wont ever see that as a good thing. Anders represents a weak mage to him. A mage who took in a demon/ spirit/ whatever to gain power. Even if it was power to save mages or for good intentions. Mages use any excuse or justification to gain power and the consequences usually lead to tradgedy.

Meanwhile Anders wont budge on the issue he is right the world is wrong. He doesn't even attempt to find a common thread except in act 1 he states fenris should want to help circle mages because they are slaves. To equivolate it makes fenris more angry than sympathetic so backfires. Just... the only hope they have is to find a thin common thread to balance on. Fenris being very isolated and introverted would not open himself up to Anders so I doubt it goes farther than tolerance of presence.

[Sealy]

I agree and I think another reason the enemies I do enjoy seeing paired work is because they are not just enemies, they're rivals. Anders and Fenris really don't think eachother are worth the air the other breathes (whoa, I hope that made a little sense.) Without Hawke Either Fenris or Anders would be dead by the others hand.

[dangereusegirl]

Oh god, Harry/Draco

-shudders-

I'm not a Fenders shipper, personally, so I'm not the best person to say what people look for in those two getting together. Frankly, it seems so out of character for Fenris, who rags on those who are the worst of mages (anders-abomination, merrill-blood mage), to suddenly want one of them. It just doesn't compute with my almost-twenty year old brain. Like you point out, Fleshdress, maybe its the love/hate thing. Perhaps people misinterpret their passionate stances on a controversial subject as being suppressed sexual tension. I dunno.

One reason Fenders doesn't work with me, and I apologize if I step on a few toes here, is because I don't think of Fenris as being bisexual. I know all of the LIs, barring Seb, are availble for male and female Hawke, but Fenris is one that I don't see being with m!Hawke. Ever. I will never have a playthrough where m!Hawke ends up with him. It just doesn't work for me. Let him go be happy with Isabela, if I don't take her up on her offer. May they find happiness together.

Okay, on second thought, I take that back. There is one slash pairing with Fenris I can see working, but in the interest of staying on track, I'll save it until later.

Anders, on the other hand, I do see as being a viable option.I blame that on the numerous Nathaniel/Anders fics I read before DA2 came out. And the fact that Anders even addresses it in game with a male Hawke makes me believe in it more. Does Fenris ever address it with Hawke? I don't remember seeing anything about that. I should go look it up later on youtube to see if anyone posts a vid.

In my mind, the only way Fenders could ever be viable, is if they met before Anders allowed Justice to possess him, and before Fenris got his markings. So we're talking way back and most likely in Tevinter. But since I don't think Anders actually ever made it to Tevinter before, it still wouldn't work.

That's my opinion anyway. Which I think is sort of the point. Perception is the big thing here. Just because I don't see Fenders working, doesn't mean someone else doesn't. In fact, the fact that there are fics out there just proves that people do see it working.

That's all I have to say for right now. It's almost four in the morning and I need to get some sleep. I'll come back after awhile and clarify my post if need be.

Night everyone!

[Arquen]

I don't think they would kill each other. Honestly even if they were to meet besides hawke they would probably be like "that guy... I hate that guy! Something about him..." but it isn't like Anders would tell or show him justice... like *flash*im an abomination!*flash nor would fenris be like your a mage aren't you!? *flash* I rip mages hearts outs for breakfast*flash*

Ooc for both of them. Fenris doesn't go around killing mages or persecuting them or even giving a thought to them. He just doesn't like what they have potential to do. Likewise Anders is hiding and isn't going to just bust out the justice mage abomination thing to some stranger elf. If it came to blows it has to be after hawke. Yet hawke could lock them in a room say.. go! Argue it out! And they may beat the crap out of eachother but hawke would stop them if they went so.far I think.

As for when hawke meets Anders and he goes all glowy I think that is a rare occurence. I doubt he greets everyone that way, lol.

[Sealy]

Oh no you didn't! Not for Harry/Dr... No, no I won't start. Different pairing, different forum.  

For serious though. I can only play Fenris with a M!Hawke, cause het in stories is... not my thing. I have tried it with a female once and then the charcter ran away with the story and I ended up with Merrill.  I don't understand why all my charcters have to be gay, but they do. I blame it on the lack of options in other games so DA has to make up for it.

I can't even see Fenders in a hate relationship, they don't have any spark as far as I am concerned. And I spend a lot of time looking for pretend sparks. I don't see any spark between Snape and Sirius and that ship is fairly popular too though. I would just love to know what scene exactly makes peoples lightbulb go off and think... "oh yah, they want eachother."

I actually think Fenris would kill Anders, if things went down the way the do without Hawke, and he learned that nders was an abomination who was trying to make all lands a Tevinter? I think the only reason he doesn't team up on the mages with Sebastian is because of Hawke.

BTW, I think it is more likely he would turn Anders in to be executed before he magically fists him. But, I get the impression through the game that Fenris is fairly merciless when it comes to neutralizing threats to the muggles.

As it is also nearing 4am here and my posts are getting less coherant as the morning wears away, I too shall shuffle off.  Night!

Modifié par Fleshdress, 06 août 2011 - 09:15 .

[Meeszy Alexy]

dangereusegirl wrote...

Oh god, Harry/Draco

-shudders-

I'm not a Fenders shipper, personally, so I'm not the best person to say what people look for in those two getting together. Frankly, it seems so out of character for Fenris, who rags on those who are the worst of mages (anders-abomination, merrill-blood mage), to suddenly want one of them. It just doesn't compute with my almost-twenty year old brain. Like you point out, Fleshdress, maybe its the love/hate thing. Perhaps people misinterpret their passionate stances on a controversial subject as being suppressed sexual tension. I dunno.

One reason Fenders doesn't work with me, and I apologize if I step on a few toes here, is because I don't think of Fenris as being bisexual. I know all of the LIs, barring Seb, are availble for male and female Hawke, but Fenris is one that I don't see being with m!Hawke. Ever. I will never have a playthrough where m!Hawke ends up with him. It just doesn't work for me. Let him go be happy with Isabela, if I don't take her up on her offer. May they find happiness together.

Okay, on second thought, I take that back. There is one slash pairing with Fenris I can see working, but in the interest of staying on track, I'll save it until later.

Anders, on the other hand, I do see as being a viable option.I blame that on the numerous Nathaniel/Anders fics I read before DA2 came out. And the fact that Anders even addresses it in game with a male Hawke makes me believe in it more. Does Fenris ever address it with Hawke? I don't remember seeing anything about that. I should go look it up later on youtube to see if anyone posts a vid.

In my mind, the only way Fenders could ever be viable, is if they met before Anders allowed Justice to possess him, and before Fenris got his markings. So we're talking way back and most likely in Tevinter. But since I don't think Anders actually ever made it to Tevinter before, it still wouldn't work.

That's my opinion anyway. Which I think is sort of the point. Perception is the big thing here. Just because I don't see Fenders working, doesn't mean someone else doesn't. In fact, the fact that there are fics out there just proves that people do see it working.

That's all I have to say for right now. It's almost four in the morning and I need to get some sleep. I'll come back after awhile and clarify my post if need be.

Night everyone!

I personally see both as bisexual, but in my head canon Fenris rarely goes for the guys and generally prefers women, but he doesn't have a discussion about it the same way you can with Anders. Some of his lines change, but that's about it.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with what you say on Fenders. The only way it'd work is if they'd met before the markings and justice, but that's just how I see it.

I think people like Fenders regardless because... well, what's hotter than one hot guy? Two.  The hate and tension just adds to it.

Edit: Anders is also willing to sell Fenris back to Danarius. That's not just rivalry (Rivalry is Aveline and Isabela's relationship - they disagree and argue, but at the end of the day, they agree with each other) that's pure hatred. Most people wouldn't do that RL unless they really despised Fenris or saw him as nothing.

Modifié par Meeszy Alexy, 06 août 2011 - 09:25 .

[Arquen]

That would assume a prince of starkhaven and a runaway tevinter elf who probably would never go to the chantry unless he had met said prince would meet outside of hawke. That is also assuming fenris would stay in kirkwall if not for hawke and learn about Anders. That is also assuming fenris would take some active roll in the war after Anders blows the chantry and would actually care about hunting mages.

That is to much assumption for my logical brain. Without hawke Anders and fenris go about their business. Not giving thought or crap about someone they don't know exists. If anything fenris would be reactive to free mages who tried to do something to him, enslave him, or come after him. Yet I doubt he would actively go seeking recruitment somewhere to restore the mages to the circle. He definitely wouldn't actively seek vengeance on this Anders character for blowing a chantry. It doesn't have anything to do with him.

Now if he remained in kirkwall for whatever reason and was there when it blew he would join the templars because it affects him personally. Yet without hawke he doesn't stay so I doubt he would get involved unless it did affect him personally somehow.

[Sealy]

Meeszy Alexy wrote...

I personally see both as bisexual, but in my head canon Fenris rarely goes for the guys and generally prefers women, but he doesn't have a discussion about it the same way you can with Anders. Some of his lines change, but that's about it.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with what you say on Fenders. The only way it'd work is if they'd met before the markings and justice, but that's just how I see it.

I think people like Fenders regardless because... well, what's hotter than one hot guy? Two.  The hate and tension just adds to it.

Edit: Anders is also willing to sell Fenris back to Danarius. That's not just rivalry (Rivalry is Aveline and Isabela's relationship - they disagree and argue, but at the end of the day, they agree with each other) that's pure hatred. Most people wouldn't do that RL unless they really despised Fenris or saw him as nothing.

 
Ok last post for real this time. (I have an addiction, I'm working on it. )
 
I have come to find a lot of Anders fans disregard that scene, saying it is very OOC for Anders, and I actually agree, no one who advocates freedom would give someone up as a slave. But I guess the writers get to decide whats in charcter at the end of the day so... Maybe they want to make it clear just how blinde that hatred had become over the years. 

Actually, it makes a lot of sense on a purely physical level. And I could see them together before they are who they become, but I can see them growing to hate one another as their plots progress. I don't think even the strongest bond can survive their dislike for one another.
 

[dangereusegirl]

Okay, I made the mistake of going to look at what some were saying in the Anders thread and now I'm awake again. Geez.

(random odd HP pairing for you flesh: harry/lucius. you dun wanna know -isnauseated-)

Back on topic.....

I do like the fact that they make character's sexual orientation not set in stone, but sometimes I wish there was a real reason in game for it. With Fenris (and Merrill for that matter), I don't really see there being a reason for it. You know Isabela is open to any sort of relationship based on your interactions with her in DAO. Anders mentions Karl being his first in DA2, and it is always brought up how he seems to lean towards liking women more in DAA, which helps establish him as being bisexual. Having all of the main LIs (Seb not being included here) its like the PTB made them bi to make everyone happy. Bah. This topic always has me scrambling to make sense, and I'm finding that hard to do right now.

Since its not like I can actually change anything about the LIs orientation, however, I have accepted it for what it is and play the game how I want.

As it has been stated, both here and in the Anders thread, Fenris and Anders only really interact because of Hawke. If you don't recruit Fenris, its not as if you hear mention of an elf with strange markings. Taking Hawke out of the equation ends up meaning that Fenris and Anders will not cross paths in that particular manner. If Hawke never came to Kirkwall, Anders would continue his pro-mage agenda, and Fenris will continue trying to evade Danarius.

This is starting to remind me of that Dr Who episode where one small change was made, and it resulted in a radically different future. People who were supposed to live died, and those meant to die lived. Without Hawke, Anders might have been captured while trying to speak with Karl, and killed/made Tranquil. Fenris might have died against those slavers in 'Bait and Switch.'

But now I'm getting off topic (again ), so I think I really will head off now.



EDIT: Flesh, I think we should join a group to help us, since we seem to be posting so much XD. What should it be called? Posters Anonomous? 

Modifié par dangereusegirl, 06 août 2011 - 09:41 .

[Sealy]

Arquen wrote...

That would assume a prince of starkhaven and a runaway tevinter elf who probably would never go to the chantry unless he had met said prince would meet outside of hawke. That is also assuming fenris would stay in kirkwall if not for hawke and learn about Anders. That is also assuming fenris would take some active roll in the war after Anders blows the chantry and would actually care about hunting mages.

That is to much assumption for my logical brain. Without hawke Anders and fenris go about their business. Not giving thought or crap about someone they don't know exists. If anything fenris would be reactive to free mages who tried to do something to him, enslave him, or come after him. Yet I doubt he would actively go seeking recruitment somewhere to restore the mages to the circle. He definitely wouldn't actively seek vengeance on this Anders character for blowing a chantry. It doesn't have anything to do with him.

Now if he remained in kirkwall for whatever reason and was there when it blew he would join the templars because it affects him personally. Yet without hawke he doesn't stay so I doubt he would get involved unless it did affect him personally somehow.

Oh sorry I am running under the assumption that by no Hawke I meant no Hawke specifically. I mean if there was still a champion, if the game went exactly the same but default male is default, he helps but doesn't bond, seek approval. Or care what the companions are doing, they are merely hirlings. A "Go ahead and turn the mages in" "Sure set the mages free" I don't care, do whatever, random group of mercenaries. type default help- for- payment male/ female. (Edit: Oops, sometimes I am sexist against my own. I suppose Hawkes can be female, though it's a zany theory. )

We really should cause I have promised myself bed about three times now and yet here I am. Posters Anonymous would be perfect. I can be your sponser so everytime I fall off the wagon I drag you with me, and vice versa. I blame this one on you, you interacted.

Also the reason Fenris is bi is because it makes me happy, thats right, Bioware loves me that much. Also he is a male elf... Zevran fans needed a new bi elf for them to bug.

Hi, I am Flesh and I have a posting problem. It has caused a lack of sleep and a neglected bf.  

Modifié par Fleshdress, 06 août 2011 - 10:00 .

[Arquen]

Im not touching the sexual debate with a 10 foot pole.

Word of Gaider says that the characters are whatever orientation the player wants them to be. If you want Anders to be into men then he is. Likewise if you want Fenris to be into women than he is. The game is set up for options for individual players. If your Hawke is gay straight bi tri whatever then you can play it that way.

This by no means indicates or proves the sexual orientation of any of the characters it just means your Fenris is into men or women or neither....

[nitefyre410]

Arquen wrote...

Even on nonromance play I love the gallows scene with fenris. It would feel so empty without his final battle pep talk. I want a shirt that says only the living know victory. Then the respectful bow, I get all pumped. Everyone else is like ohh noes we in trouble this sucks im nervous boo hoos. Fenris is like les do this hawke! Death be damned! I love it.

Plus im like the only crazy person who thinks if you kill fenris you betray him more than he betrays you... that line he says about "should have known... first rule of survival." Im like.. "d'oh, im sorry I suck and didn't convince you otherwise. Sorrry I failed as a friend. Truce? Hehe?"

Yeah I  was looking at him like "Dude you have  run around with me enough to know what happens to people that get me way.  View on mages be damned"  He just looked a Meredith and when "You know this is going to very badly for you   Meredith ...I  know this guy."   

I had a very mixed  bag of the "Dude this sucks" and  "You damn stuborrn fool"

[tankgirly]

Arquen wrote...

Im not touching the sexual debate with a 10 foot pole.

Word of Gaider says that the characters are whatever orientation the player wants them to be. If you want Anders to be into men then he is. Likewise if you want Fenris to be into women than he is. The game is set up for options for individual players. If your Hawke is gay straight bi tri whatever then you can play it that way.

This by no means indicates or proves the sexual orientation of any of the characters it just means your Fenris is into men or women or neither....

Totally agree with ya thar!

[Arquen]

Is cool... Fenris like one shorted my mage Hawke in the fade one time. I was like "fuuuuuuuuuu" it was hilarious. I've had to kill Anders when he comes back too. I didn't want to that time... but I friended him and sided with the templars.. d'oh. He went down like a sack if potatoes I was like... damn.. can't heal dead, lol. He had no offense spells and the game really didn't give him any.

I've killed fenris plenty of times in the fade. Only because I love his night terrors scene. However.. him turning on you just gets me. I saw it on youtube and it just boggles me.

As for chronic poster... *raises hand* hello? I post all night looooong and even in the day sometimes.

As for neglected bf.. he says to me "one day your going to come home with a tattoo of a heart and a name inside..." and I go "with a lyrium glowing fist punching through it! And Fenris in script!"

He's like.. "exactly.." *grumblegrumble*

[nitefyre410]

Arquen wrote...

Is cool... Fenris like one shorted my mage Hawke in the fade one time. I was like "fuuuuuuuuuu" it was hilarious. I've had to kill Anders when he comes back too. I didn't want to that time... but I friended him and sided with the templars.. d'oh. He went down like a sack if potatoes I was like... damn.. can't heal dead, lol. He had no offense spells and the game really didn't give him any.

I've killed fenris plenty of times in the fade. Only because I love his night terrors scene. However.. him turning on you just gets me. I saw it on youtube and it just boggles me.

As for chronic poster... *raises hand* hello? I post all night looooong and even in the day sometimes.

As for neglected bf.. he says to me "one day your going to come home with a tattoo of a heart and a name inside..." and I go "with a lyrium glowing fist punching through it! And Fenris in script!"

He's like.. "exactly.." *grumblegrumble*

Well I think he turned on me at the end because I was rather had line with durning game  for instance one I dialogue I choose was   "You still a Slave" cause in a sense he still  is  because of his anger. Not matter how justified  he lets it control him at times  *looks at Anders* Sounds like someone else we know right. That one option along with others put rather far in rivilary points. 

[Arquen]

Even rival he will side with you. Only if you half it or don't make it all the way to rival will he betray you.

Im not sure if you have to be 100% rival or if you can be slightly less like 80-90%. On my rival pt I had him 100% rival and he followed me.

[nitefyre410]

Arquen wrote...

Even rival he will side with you. Only if you half it or don't make it all the way to rival will he betray you.

Im not sure if you have to be 100% rival or if you can be slightly less like 80-90%. On my rival pt I had him 100% rival and he followed me.

Exuse me while my brain goes Herp Derp over this revelation....      


Okay I 'm  good back through  game and see if I can figure what turn  I maded ... 

Interesting   Though just had about  Neutral Rivilary ?

[darkrose]

dangereusegirl wrote...

(random odd HP pairing for you flesh: harry/lucius. you dun wanna know -isnauseated-)
 

Mmm. That's actually one of my favorite pairings to write, because it's such a challenge to do it and make it work. Also, Jason Isaacs.

I like the idea of Fenris/Anders (I hate pairing smush names!) as bitter, violent hatesex that requires a healer afterwards. I can't buy Fenris/Anders falling in love despite themselves. They're set up as polar opposites, and they're both very black-and-white in their worldview. The only thing that's going to get either of them to shift is being in a relationship with Hawke, the protagonist at the center of the story. 

As far as Fenris' orientation, I tend to assume that for him, trusting anyone enough to have a relationship with them is a big deal. Past that, gender is really secondary.

[darkrose]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Arquen wrote...

Even rival he will side with you. Only if you half it or don't make it all the way to rival will he betray you.

Im not sure if you have to be 100% rival or if you can be slightly less like 80-90%. On my rival pt I had him 100% rival and he followed me.

Exuse me while my brain goes Herp Derp over this revelation....      


Okay I 'm  good back through  game and see if I can figure what turn  I maded ... 

Interesting   Though just had about  Neutral Rivilary ?

I'm pretty sure if you side with the mages, you have to be at 100% rivalry to get him to side with you.

[Arquen]

As I said im not sure. By act 3 I pretty much max him out one way or the other.

[Sealy]

I have actually never been able to 100% rival him because I can't ever blindely follow Anders with mage rights and friend/rival I always forget the gifts. So staying in chararter he swished around and starts approving of things at the oddest times.

[john-in-france]

I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to members of the Fenris fan club interested in medieval historical comparisons to a new thread in the General Discussion forum: DA Universe and the Real Crusades.

Debate and discussion. Only DA Universe and real history allowed. But I'm sure that some of you can cope with that! Besides who is going to debate on behalf of the inquisition being right otherwise, not to mention keeping sorcerers under control?

First, before you glow fist me to death, the topic starting the first conversations was pretty much in the same line as the rules of the thread. I wasn't specifically dissing Anders (for once) but exploring what may have sparked Biowares story arc.

Angels and Demons vs Spirits and Demons.

http://social.biowar...49547/1#8049634