55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Reznore57]

They're both ass to each others .I mean really.Anders sees Fenris as some Templars wannabe .And Fenris see Anders as a fool whose opinion will lead to another Imperium.
Funny thing is they're so alike , they do want a better world to live in , no matter the cost.
Locking up /abusing mage is fine ,and blowing up a chantry is A ok if that's what it takes.
In the end , they're not bad people , they're just outcast who try to hang on to something.
The problem is they're driven by anger and vengeance a lot and they don't /can't face it.

There are absolutely no empathy between the two.Fenris back to slavery , well no different from a mage being captured by templars.
You're turning into a monster , well told you so , mages are dangerous.

[Sealy]

I don't think Fenris hates Anders because of what he wants, otherwise he would be unromancable by a promage Hawke. Fenris hates Anders because of what he is. An abomination, Anders has done what Fenris has probably seen countless other mages do, he merged with a fade spirit/demon. Just like he doesn't hate Merrill for being a mage, he hates her for using blood magic. If you are not a mage you can see Fenris try to communicate his side quite civilly towards Bethany, he doesn't do that out of loyalty to Hawke but because Bethany is differant then what mages in his mind are set as. Anders and Merrill are not.

I don't see them as anything alike and I don't see Fenris as a Hypocrite at all. Fenris actually gets an opportunity to turn in the mage companions, and a buddy to help shoulder the task but loyalty to Hawke, rival or friend is more important to him. He will help defend the mages, not because he is a hypocrite but because he is loyal to Hawke, he trusts his judgment and will snarl and let you know just how much he doesn't agree, but where Hawke goes Fenris follows. Fenris is honest to a point of being an ass. But he is no hypocrite. One of the things I find most annoying about friendmancing him as a mage is that nothing you say or do will truly sway his opinion of mages. He will agree eventually that mages are probably not the only source of his hatred and that it probably has a little to do with the fact that he is poisoning himself after awhile. But, in his eyes there is probably one strong mage (Hawke, Bethany) to every insane, bloodmage, abomination, Magister. The only scene I found a little odd for him was the new Legacy scene where after they find out Hawkes father was a bloodmage he cut scened to ask me about it and I was waiting for the scathing remark, and it naver came. After so many scenes where you see Fenris flip out on mages, it is difficult to remember he isn't frothing at the mouth. If he comforts Hawke after All That Remains he won't use the opportunity say "seeeee, mages+ freedom= dead parents. and I suppose I didn't mind that banter between Fenris/Anders about things being too far because I myself wanted to snap at Anders and use Quentin as exhibit A for why the circle is needed.

I went off tangent soomewhere up there and stopped writing about what I started writing about I think, but it is early in the morning, I didn't sleep well last night either, I am sick and I spent a moment skimming the I hate Fenris thread and was feeling a little case of the snarls coming on. Which is weird cause to be honest I don't care what other opinions of Fenris are, I love him, I think he is such a well written character.

Hmm, I say his right through this post, As far as Hawke referances go I mean her too but I am too lazy to correct it. But Bah arguing, I hate writing long posts almost as much as I hate reading them, I blame my lack of debate skill but it probably has more to do with my short attention span.

You know what I want for DLC, I want to see Fenris as Leto. O will battle him through the tourney and kick butt, I will flirt with his romance options that he won't remember, but mostly I will love those gaps, like how the marking lure went down and what his familial relation was, to seeing her personality before the ritual, his interaction with Danarius! Please bioware! Pleeeaasseee!

Modifié par Fleshdress, 08 août 2011 - 09:43 .

[ReiSilver]

Fleshdress wrote...

I don't think Fenris hates Anders because of what he wants, otherwise he would be unromancable by a promage Hawke. Fenris hates Anders because of what he is. An abomination, Anders has done what Fenris has probably seen countless other mages do, he merged with a fade spirit/demon. Just like he doesn't hate Merrill for being a mage, he hates her for using blood magic. If you are not a mage you can see Fenris try to communicate his side quite civilly towards Bethany, he doesn't do that out of loyalty to Hawke but because Bethany is differant then what mages in his mind are set as. Anders and Merrill are not.

I don't see them as anything alike and I don't see Fenris as a Hypocrite at all. Fenris actually gets an opportunity to turn in the mage companions, and a buddy to help shoulder the task but loyalty to Hawke, rival or friend is more important to him. He will help defend the mages, not because he is a hypocrite but because he is loyal to Hawke, he trusts his judgment and will snarl and let you know just how much he doesn't agree, but where Hawke goes Fenris follows. Fenris is honest to a point of being an ass. But he is no hypocrite. One of the things I find most annoying about friendmancing him as a mage is that nothing you say or do will truly sway his opinion of mages. He will agree eventually that mages are probably not the only source of his hatred and that it probably has a little to do with the fact that he is poisoning himself after awhile. But, in his eyes there is probably one strong mage (Hawke, Bethany) to every insane, bloodmage, abomination, Magister. The only scene I found a little odd for him was the new Legacy scene where after they find out Hawkes father was a bloodmage he cut scened to ask me about it and I was waiting for the scathing remark, and it naver came. After so many scenes where you see Fenris flip out on mages, it is difficult to remember he isn't frothing at the mouth. If he comforts Hawke after All That Remains he won't use the opportunity say "seeeee, mages+ freedom= dead parents. and I suppose I didn't mind that banter between Fenris/Anders about things being too far because I myself wanted to snap at Anders and use Quentin as exhibit A for why the circle is needed.

I went off tangent soomewhere up there and stopped writing about what I started writing about I think, but it is early in the morning, I didn't sleep well last night either, I am sick and I spent a moment skimming the I hate Fenris thread and was feeling a little case of the snarls coming on. Which is weird cause to be honest I don't care what other opinions of Fenris are, I love him, I think he is such a well written character.

Hmm, I say his right through this post, As far as Hawke referances go I mean her too but I am too lazy to correct it. But Bah arguing, I hate writing long posts almost as much as I hate reading them, I blame my lack of debate skill but it probably has more to do with my short attention span.

You know what I want for DLC, I want to see Fenris as Leto. O will battle him through the tourney and kick butt, I will flirt with his romance options that he won't remember, but mostly I will love those gaps, like how the marking lure went down and what his familial relation was, to seeing her personality before the ritual, his interaction with Danarius! Please bioware! Pleeeaasseee!

I think with Anders it's more then just him being an Abomination, though I'd agree that's part of it. But whenever you listen to these two fight/bicker/argue in their dialogue you can pick out the things that each says that would set the other right off. They constantly press each others buttons whether they mean to or not, I think someone once pointed out that the only things they've been able to talk cordially about are; Merrill, suicide and the Deep Roads, (and they apparently play cards together, I imagine as part of the group, since Anders mentions in Legacy he owes Fenris money, oh that had me cackling for a while)

Anders gets angry and frustrated with Fenris' grudge against mages, where as Hawke seemed unendingly patient, even on the rival path in A Bitter Pill, when Fenris (in anger) goes on about how all magic ruins everything, mageHawke just gives him a raised eyebrow as if he/she is saying 'really? We're going there?' whereas by that point I was ready for a 'Oh come on! I'm standing right here!'

I do think that Anders and Fenris are very alike and that's part of why they press each others buttons. They're both extreamly passionate, they both have issues with people trying to control them, they both spend large amounts of time brooding, they're both fueled by revenge to a certain extent, they were both seperated from their families, they both have dealt with stress by running away. Even Varric mentions in a Legacy dialogue that he always thought they were quite similar.

[tsunderes]

Arquen wrote...

Okay.. tidra... what? Fenris doesn't come across as spiteful but he is? Fenris is telling the truth after ella but you disagree?

I get your thought process on Anders, but what I don't like is when Anders fans try to make Fenris' dialogues and actions towards Anders just as condemning, rude, and tactless. There is nothing Fenris does or says that is on the same level as what Anders says in that scene. Speculate on what Fenris would say if the option were to send Anders over all you want, but it doesn't exist in game while Anders statement does.

Fenris says that his limitation statement "was not a condemnation." He was not being spiteful to Anders then. To Anders afterwards he mocks saying "what was it you said..." but again his tone is laced with mock and venom because Anders continues to prove to Fenris that being an abomination isn't a good thing. "So you see yourself as harmless then?"

As for the markings... just... no. You can't assume he knew what he was buying. If anything the only thing he knew was that he had a chance to free his family. Anders' merger with Justice is shrouded in mystery as to the exact reason but he accepted the consequences of that merger and understood at least in theory what would/could happen. Danarius had no reason to reveal the ritual to Fenris. The way I see it Danarius offered a boon, but had no reason to tell Fenris about the ritual. He did it to himself? His suffering the ritual, memory loss and as a slave was his own doing? No I don't agree at all. His whining about his markings? Sorry don't see whining either.

Yes his whole point is vengeance, and him and Anders share that, but when it comes to that dialogue Fenris has no equivalent to Anders. The worst he says is "he wants to die. Kill him and be done with it." Yet at that point he is not wrong. He is not spiteful, he is stating what he sees. He is being blunt logical Fenris. He doesn't like Anders but he isn't like "feed him to Meredith and let her hang him as an example to other mages." Which is pretty much on par with Anders approving giving him back. Anders is also being contradictory to his own core belief. That being he is approving of slavery. Fenris never would approve of slavery or magisters.

Agreeing on all points. The largest difference between Fenris and Anders is Fenris realizes his faults and short comings, while Anders never takes responsibility for his rudeness or poor decisions. Even when Fenris is being his brattiest, most stubborn self, he usually appologizes, or acknowladges his bad behavior, at the end he even tries to begin changing his attitude and find a more positive and productive life mission than revenge. I haven't really seen any of this from Anders.

The only scenario I can think of where Fenris was really out of line other than Ella wa when you can blackmail Thrask and he agrees with your decision rather smugly.

Modifié par tsunderes, 08 août 2011 - 01:50 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Never mind. Read the whole 'discussion' before responding, Ursula. *bonk self*

And my time to post on the Fen thread is over for now. I'll get back to it later.

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 08 août 2011 - 01:59 .

[Reznore57]

I found it hard to guess who's "the better man". I do believe they're alike but they're on opposite path.
Fenris is free and can move on with his life if he decide to.
Anders is losing himself to a spirit and he have no way out of it.

When you listen to party banters specially the one with Varric , you notice how Fenris is more open , he 's slowly building a life , friendships etc ..Anders grew darker and more isolated.

[Meeszy Alexy]

One phrase that describes Fenris and Anders quite accurately is "Opposite sides of the same coin". At first Anders is more sociable as opposed to Fenris, who sits in his mansion all day. But as the story goes on, Fenris starts opening up to others, making friends (such as Donnic) and even going into a relationship (not a very serious one, mind) with Isabela (if Hawke's not there for either of them). At the end, he realises that he has to move on and let go of his bitterness.

Anders has the exact reverse happen - with Justice pushing him to do more for the mages, he isolates himself from anyone that he deems a threat, which eventually goes down to Hawke and Varric, and it's quite clear that he's lost his old humour by then. Justice and the cause of mages turns him into the terrorist (Your Mileage May Vary - I see him as a terrorist, you may not) that blows up the Chantry in Act 3.

I personally prefer Fenris over Anders as he truly moves on and grows to be a better person whereas Anders just becomes more and more like Vengeance and becomes more closed-minded and bitter.

</rant>

This needs more Fenris pics.

Modifié par Meeszy Alexy, 08 août 2011 - 03:20 .

[Annarl]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

The thing about Fenris is that he's blunt. If he doesn't like you or your opinion he'll just come right out and say it. Can he be insulting and tactless, yes and the whole 'understanding your limitations' banter after Dissent was intended to take Anders down a peg or two. The same thing could be said of Anders remarking on how he despises mages simply because he's jealous.

I totally agree.  Fenris is lacking a filter.  The one that stops us from saying things that may hurt others feelings.  Fenris has an opinion, he will tell you good or bad.  And if he hurts Hawke he's usually sorry later.

I too see a lot of similiar qualities in their personalities.  As I said earlier they are different sides of the same coin. Their passion about the mage issue is extreme, and depending on how you feel about it, can be annoying either way. There seems to be no room for compromise between them, at this time at least. But then again I don't view Anders as a hypocrite.  He's angry and angry people say outrageous and sometimes hateful things (as can Fenris).  I see him as someone who is losing himself to his cause and to Justice, while Fenris appears to be growing as a person.  And by Act 3 there is no way of stopping Anders dissent.  As much as I dislike his romance, there are times I just want to hold his hand.  

Then again sometimes I feel like turning around and telling both of them to shut up.  Both can be total jerks.  But we love them or at least one of them anyways;).

Modifié par omearaee, 08 août 2011 - 04:04 .

[nitefyre410]

omearaee wrote...
*snip*
Then again sometimes I feel like turning around and telling both of them to shut up.  Both can be total jerks.  But we love them or at least one of them anyways;).

Thats  how I feel about them  as well  because the can both be complete a - holes but they are both still my Hawkes friend and he will not abandon them  not matter how much they work his nerve. Which Is way I love the DA 2 cast they felt real because  like in real group of friends not everyone is going to get along all the time.

[Sialater]

Hi. I'm usually in the Anders thread, but Fenris does get one of my Hawkes. Anna, to be exact.

So, I was playing Legacy last night and ran across a dialog between Varric and Anders that made me scratch my head. Apparently, Anders owes Fenris money from losing to him at Wicked Grace and is paying in installments. LOL

Now... that's not usually something you do for your mortal enemy... allow an installment plan, I mean, right?

[Sinaxi]

You also don't play cards with a mortal enemy. Lol. They stop drinking their haterade for those nights.

[Sialater]

They only trot it out for Hawke visits, eh? LOL

[Sinaxi]

Besides, Fenris is like cackling to himself as he steals all of Anders money. (except I think they all do that...poor Anders haha) otherwise the haterade is being drank 24/7

[Ryzaki]

I think Anders loses to dog.

They all take his money XD

[Sialater]

Poor Anders. But I was more surprised by the installment plan, though.

[leggywillow]

Sialater wrote...

Hi. I'm usually in the Anders thread, but Fenris does get one of my Hawkes. Anna, to be exact.

So, I was playing Legacy last night and ran across a dialog between Varric and Anders that made me scratch my head. Apparently, Anders owes Fenris money from losing to him at Wicked Grace and is paying in installments. LOL

Now... that's not usually something you do for your mortal enemy... allow an installment plan, I mean, right?

Well, it's not really something you'd do for your friend either.  If your best buddy lost at a card game and couldn't pay you, most people would just laugh it off and say "Don't worry, drinks will be on you when we go out next week" instead of "YOU WILL PAY ME IF IT TAKES YOU TEN YEARS."

[Sialater]

leggywillow wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Hi. I'm usually in the Anders thread, but Fenris does get one of my Hawkes. Anna, to be exact.

So, I was playing Legacy last night and ran across a dialog between Varric and Anders that made me scratch my head. Apparently, Anders owes Fenris money from losing to him at Wicked Grace and is paying in installments. LOL

Now... that's not usually something you do for your mortal enemy... allow an installment plan, I mean, right?

Well, it's not really something you'd do for your friend either.  If your best buddy lost at a card game and couldn't pay you, most people would just laugh it off and say "Don't worry, drinks will be on you when we go out next week" instead of "YOU WILL PAY ME IF IT TAKES YOU TEN YEARS."

LOL, well I definitely wouldn't call them best buddies.  Even with this.    But Anders sounded amused not pissed, so... maybe less than hateful?

[Meeszy Alexy]

Sialater wrote...

leggywillow wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Hi. I'm usually in the Anders thread, but Fenris does get one of my Hawkes. Anna, to be exact.

So, I was playing Legacy last night and ran across a dialog between Varric and Anders that made me scratch my head. Apparently, Anders owes Fenris money from losing to him at Wicked Grace and is paying in installments. LOL

Now... that's not usually something you do for your mortal enemy... allow an installment plan, I mean, right?

Well, it's not really something you'd do for your friend either.  If your best buddy lost at a card game and couldn't pay you, most people would just laugh it off and say "Don't worry, drinks will be on you when we go out next week" instead of "YOU WILL PAY ME IF IT TAKES YOU TEN YEARS."

LOL, well I definitely wouldn't call them best buddies.  Even with this.    But Anders sounded amused not pissed, so... maybe less than hateful?

Maybe he's just happy that it's in installments? If he had to pay it all at once, he wouldn't have enough to keep the clinic going.

[Sinaxi]

Haha, well if Fenris killed him he'd never get his money. Anders probably doesn't have much money.. he is too busy slumming it up in Darktown healing refugees for free haha.

[Tealsie]

I wonder if all of Hawke's companions go in some sort of debt circle. Fenris owes Varric money, Anders owes Fenris money... everyone probably owes Varric and Isabela a great amount.  Except Merrill. She probably loses to either of them, and they just pat her on her head, give her money back, and "better luck next time Daisy/Kitten".

...tried staying away from here to avoid Legacy spoilers, but now I have no idea when I'll even be able to get it, so... hi all.

(and because I can: shamefulself-promotion http://evelyn-hope.d...again-251609913 )

...I miss Fenris. My brother is hogging the 360, and I haven't been able to play DA2 for a couple of months.

[Sinaxi]

Haha, Isabela probably owns them all in cards. I bet they grumble every time she wants to play and then accuse her of cheating. And yeah I don't think they make Merrill pay them haha.

[Dr. Doctor]

Isabela makes everyone equal:

The Hanged Man

Anders: What was that?

Fenris: What delusions are you having now?

Anders: You shoved me!

Fenris: I did no such thing.

Anders: You hate mages so you just think you can shove them around anytime you want?

Fenris: Says the man with delusions of persecution.

Anders: I do not have delusions of-

Isabela: (slamming her mug down on the bar) Enough! Maker, you two carry on just like my idiot crew.

Anders: But-

Isabela: I'm talking now! If the two of you are going to bicker like my crew I'm going to treat you like my crew. Drop them.

Fenris: What?

Isabela: Drop your pants.

Anders: Why?

Isabela: Because irregardless of whatever you two are going on about you're still men. And when men argue it's usually about a rather specific topic, so drop them so I can get back to drinking.

Fenris: No.

Anders: I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm with Fenris on this one.

Isabela: Well then if you don't want to settle this my way the both of you can shut up and let the rest of us enjoy our drinks.

Varric: Damn, I never thought Rivaini could be so commanding.

Hawke: Oh she can definitely be commanding.

Modifié par Dr. Doctor, 08 août 2011 - 07:56 .

[dangereusegirl]

^ and that is why I love Isabela XD

[Sialater]

Isabella is awesome.

[tankgirly]

Someone mentioned Issie in this thread?

Shameless self-promotion Post as linky because it's offtopic.