55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Patriciachr34]

@ Dr. Priceless!

[Sinaxi]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
Isabela makes everyone equal:

The Hanged Man

Anders: What was that?
Fenris: What delusions are you having now?
Anders: You shoved me!
Fenris: I did no such thing.
Anders: You hate mages so you just think you can shove them around anytime you want?
Fenris: Says the man with delusions of persecution.
Anders: I do not have delusions of-
Isabela: (slamming her mug down on the bar) Enough! Maker, you two carry on just like my idiot crew.
Anders: But-
Isabela: I'm talking now! If the two of you are going to bicker like my crew I'm going to treat you like my crew. Drop them.
Fenris: What?
Isabela: Drop your pants.
Anders: Why?
Isabela: Because irregardless of whatever you two are going on about you're still men. And when men argue it's usually about a rather specific topic, so drop them so I can get back to drinking.
Fenris: No.
Anders: I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm with Fenris on this one.
Isabela: Well then if you don't want to settle this my way the both of you can shut up and let the rest of us enjoy our drinks.
Varric: Damn, I never thought Rivaini could be so commanding.
Hawke: Oh she can definitely be commanding.

Isabela is my hero. Seriously. I'm definitely kind of gay for her and Morrigan. I had never thought about uh, Fenris and Anders in those terms...but Isabela definitely would.

Lol...actually has Isabela slept with both of them? I mean, the convo she has with Anders about the Pearl..

• Anders: I keep thinking I know you from somewhere...
• Isabela: You're Fereldan, right? Ever spend time at the Pearl?
• Anders: That's it!
• Anders: You used to really like that girl with the griffin tattoos, right? What was her name?
• Isabela: The Lay Warden?
• Anders: That's right! I think you were there the night I—
• Isabela: Oh! Were you the runaway mage who could do that electricity thing? That was nice...
• Hawke: Please stop talking. Now.
• Varric: I don't think I need to know this about either of you.

I suppose you could argue she only saw him do the "electricity thing" but the way she is all "That was nice" and how Hawke is super uncomfortable I'm assuming they did it or had a threesome of sorts haha. He also says this at one point if Merrill is being romanced:

• Anders: You can't really get jealous of someone for sleeping with Isabela. It's just...understood.
• Anders: She's like a side dish. She comes with the meal.
• Isabela: Only if it's a good meal!

That is kind of funny if that's the case since if you don't romance Fenris she does him too rofl. Isabela, once again, my hero.

Oh, another thing that made me LOL in the game is when they make a reference to fanfiction hahaha...Isabela writes "friend fiction" .

• Isabela: Psst. I've got some of it written down now.
• Varric: Give it here.
• Varric: "Her breasts strained against the leather jerkin like two wild stallions corralled against their will." (Chuckles)
• Varric: "She pounced—the smooth moves of a jungle cat—and locked her thighs around Donnic's waist. He—"
• Aveline: What?
• Isabela: Nothing.
• Aveline: What is that?
• Isabela: Shh! (Giggles)
• Varric: Isabela just thought she'd celebrate your love affair with a... written dedication.
• Isabela: It's "friend-fiction!" I do it out of love.
• Aveline: I will never, ever be clean again.

She's just...great. But yeah...I'm pretty sure she has slept with both Anders and Fenris (depending on if you romance Fenris or not) which is just too funny.

Modifié par Tidra, 08 août 2011 - 09:48 .

[Reznore57]

What i really like about Isabella is she's the only who achieve to shut anders and fenris up.
When she talks about mages with fenris , he changes the subject to his underwear because she 's right.
And one of her greatest moment is when she talk about justice with Anders and prove that he can't truly achieve his goal.

She's really a clever woman and she's funny , love her too

Modifié par Reznore57, 08 août 2011 - 09:52 .

[Tealsie]

Everyone loves Isabela. Or has slept with her.
Or both.

[Carmen_Willow]

Reznore57 wrote...

I found it hard to guess who's "the better man". I do believe they're alike but they're on opposite path.
Fenris is free and can move on with his life if he decide to.
Anders is losing himself to a spirit and he have no way out of it.

When you listen to party banters specially the one with Varric , you notice how Fenris is more open , he 's slowly building a life , friendships etc ..Anders grew darker and more isolated.

IRL, this reminds me of Kurt Cobain and Eddie Vedder.  Both grew up with similar traumas, both with great talent in the same field, both achieved fame and fortune.  One of them grows, moves on, moves forward and the other falls into the abyss.  So sad.

[Sinaxi]

The thing is...meh, I just dislike to say that "Anders is falling to the abyss" because to me, I've always identified more with Anders truly losing himself to Justice on rivalry only. In friendship path, he has accepted what he is and he cannot change it and unlike rivalry he does not fight against it - because it's just who he is now.

That's another reason why rivalry path bothers me...Hepler said this just the other day in the Anders thread in regards to rivalry romance with Anders:

She [Hawke] tries to shock him out of his acceptance of what he's become to force him to see that Justice has corrupted him (and ultimately succeeds when they split sufficiently for Justice to just take over and do the bombing, albeit not in a way that ends up benefiting anyone).

Hawke is sitting there just being super frustrated with Anders about how he's made "a mess of his life" but like...regardless if she convinces him that he was in the wrong about Justice - what good does that actually EVER do Anders? He cannot under any circumstances that we currently know about, separate himself from Justice. So constantly talking at him is in absolutely no way beneficial to Anders.

While I agree that Fenris "grows, moves on, and moves forward" the thing is...his cause is sort of over. He got revenge on Danarius. Yes, he has issues with Mages in general but I don't personally see Fenris going out and doing something about this on his own. He's going to move on with his life and do whatever.

Anders is driven. This is not in any way sad to me. His story is sad, yes, but his goal is not. His determination is not sad. On friendship I believe that he grows darker not because of anything having to do with Justice, (since they only truly separate on Rivalry) but because he is realizing what it is he is about to do. He tries to distance himself from the people around him, including a romanced Hawke. He has no time for games now, because he knows what is coming. Varric tries to joke with him, and he is just like "Not now." At that point he is 100% "I know what I must do".

Depending on whether you kill him or not is player choice, but imo if he stays alive on friendship path he is not this "broken" man...definitely not anything like the one he is on rivalry. I know his story and his life will always be tragic so in a way you could say he is broken no matter what...but just based on where he is at the end of the game friendship/mage siding he is not falling further into the abyss. He is sad about what he did, and admits that he probably does deserve to die in order to give those people justice...but when you offer to keep him alive and let him fight Templars he is 100% ready to do this. He is still determined.

I do not see Friendship Anders just going off the rails and killing himself after the events in Kirkwall when he still has a mission. He started this in Kirkwall, and he is not the kind of person to just wait around and watch it end...he would want to be involved somehow.

I don't view that as someone who ends up necessarily being darker and isolated (after events in last straw) or "falling to the abyss". He stays with Hawke after all if you romanced him. I just think at those points in Act 3 he is dreading, but also ready for what he is about to do. After Last Straw, I'd say he is still the same determined person. He is not losing himself to Justice. He is "Justice". He is Anders, and he is Justice. It is one person.

I feel like people find it easy to pity Anders situation, which it definitely is easy to feel sorry for him, but in a way I don't. He is doing something he believes in. The way he got to this point may be very tragic and sad, but Anders as a person..I don't pity. I don't see him falling into the abyss, a day may come where he has to pay for what he did but that day isn't here yet. Mages aren't free, not yet. Therefore his job is not done. On a whole, he may never return to being the "person" he used to be...but he knows that.

That's just my thoughts on the whole "Anders losing himself to Justice" thing though. And also from a friendship path pov...since it's completely different on rivalry.


Edit - rofl, I'm totally sorry. That response when I started writing it was not meant to be that long and a giant wall of text. Since this is the Fenris thread...not the Anders thread. But I did mention Fenris up there! ...somewhere...

Modifié par Tidra, 08 août 2011 - 11:29 .

[Sepewrath]

Tidra wrote...

The thing is...meh, I just dislike to say
that "Anders is falling to the abyss" because to me, I've always
identified more with Anders truly losing himself to Justice on
rivalry only. In friendship path, he has accepted what he is and he
cannot change it and unlike rivalry he does not fight against it -
because it's just who he is now.

That's another reason why rivalry path bothers me...Hepler said this just the other day in the Anders thread:

I would agree with Anders spiraling downward with a rivalry as he sort of alone in the world and on that path, he would accept Justice. I would disagree about him accepting it on the friendship path, I would think as a friend; someone would tell Anders to try more and more to fight against the negative effect that Justice has on him and vice versa. There are some things about yourself you cant just accept as "that's who you are" and some crazy spirit popping up, taking over,  killing everyone in room, everytime you have a bad day is at the top of the list.

[Sealy]

There is a lot of Anders, Izzy discussion going dowm over here. I had to double take to make sure I was in the Fenris thread.

I have decided to do a playthrough rivaling everyone... except Fenris cause even though I lurve his wall throwing scene, the way he refuses to look at Hawke if rivaled is creepy, usually if I rival him I let him leave for the glowy scene of yum and come back later, it doesn't seem like he is trying to shut my Hawke out then. But I prefer the wall slamming so friendmance it is. Does anyone else find that scene a little disturbing? What do you think is going through his mind?

Modifié par Fleshdress, 09 août 2011 - 12:19 .

[Ryzaki]

Hm...I didn't find it disturbing. Definitely not rape. Fenris could easily rip off my dude Hawke's balls off if he wanted too.

I see it as more boiling passion and reluctance before he finally gives in.

[Sinaxi]

Sepewrath wrote...

Tidra wrote...

The thing is...meh, I just dislike to say
that "Anders is falling to the abyss" because to me, I've always
identified more with Anders truly losing himself to Justice on
rivalry only. In friendship path, he has accepted what he is and he
cannot change it and unlike rivalry he does not fight against it -
because it's just who he is now.

That's another reason why rivalry path bothers me...Hepler said this just the other day in the Anders thread:

I would agree with Anders spiraling downward with a rivalry as he sort of alone in the world and on that path, he would accept Justice. I would disagree about him accepting it on the friendship path, I would think as a friend; someone would tell Anders to try more and more to fight against the negative effect that Justice has on him and vice versa. There are some things about yourself you cant just accept as "that's who you are" and some crazy spirit popping up, taking over,  killing everyone in room, everytime you have a bad day is at the top of the list.

I don't mean it in that way. IMO a Friendship Hawke helps Anders learn to control Justice, mostly to control his own emotions and supports him in that way. Rivalry is more like "RAH! You are in ZERO control!" and gives no real help to solve the problem, instead just complains about the problem.

In my opinion, the times we really see Justice come forth is when Anders starts to lose his cool or starts feeling threatened in some way. This feeling is only compounded by whatever Justice is feeling, and it leads to him manifesting because he thinks he needs to take control. That is the way I have always personally interpreted it...at least on friendship path.

By accepting it I mean that he understands he can't change this, he has to learn to live with Justice. Not that he is just cool with freaking out every 5 minutes on Templars. Me saying "that's who he is" is just because there is no way to separate Justice from Anders...therefore he technically is "Janders" as many people like to call him.

I mean, he has lived with Justice for...in simply DA2 game time, like 10 years if you keep him alive in Last Straw. In Last Straw he pretty much has accepted what he is. His lines clearly indicate that to me..I would transcribe them here but I assume most people remember what he says. That doesn't mean I think, as you put it, he is cool with going nuts and killing people since he is having a bad day.

Actually I just reread your post...you are saying you think he accepts Justice on rivalry? That's...not..correct. Even Hepler identified that him and Justice "split sufficiently". Rivalry path, Hawke pretty much makes Anders hate himself. He is not one with Justice AT ALL. He begins suffering from blackouts because he can't even remember when Justice manifests at that point. By the time Act 3 rolls around, he has practically given up on even trying to battle Justice anymore. If anything he fights harder to control Justice and stay calm on friendship path than he does on rivalry..on rivalry it is just this losing battle with Justice. He only truly becomes "one" or "merges" with Justice on friendship, on rivalry it is like they are two different people. So he doesn't accept him on rivalry, he gives up. There's a difference.

Modifié par Tidra, 09 août 2011 - 12:27 .

[tsunderes]

this is pretty off topic, but i dont know who else to turn to...
http://30.media.tumb...d4vxuo1_500.jpg

Does anyone know what these red streaks are on the back of Hawkes tunic? Is it a bunched up family crest? the symbol of kirkwall? or just jagged lines?
sorry to be so OT >_<

[Sealy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hm...I didn't find it disturbing. Definitely not rape. Fenris could easily rip off my dude Hawke's balls off if he wanted too.

I see it as more boiling passion and reluctance before he finally gives in.

No, I never see it as rape, but I do see it as being highly uncomfortable with what he is doing/allowing/wanting. My Hawke is so sensitive to that with Fenris they rival because of a difference in opinion my rivalmance was never cruel to him. So when he was refusing to look I myself was looking for a way to get my Hawke to back off. It felt too strange. If people are uncomfortable it's usally because they are not ready and I got that vibe big tiime.

[Sealy]

Tidra wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

Tidra wrote...

The thing is...meh, I just dislike to say
that "Anders is falling to the abyss" because to me, I've always
identified more with Anders truly losing himself to Justice on
rivalry only. In friendship path, he has accepted what he is and he
cannot change it and unlike rivalry he does not fight against it -
because it's just who he is now.

That's another reason why rivalry path bothers me...Hepler said this just the other day in the Anders thread:

I would agree with Anders spiraling downward with a rivalry as he sort of alone in the world and on that path, he would accept Justice. I would disagree about him accepting it on the friendship path, I would think as a friend; someone would tell Anders to try more and more to fight against the negative effect that Justice has on him and vice versa. There are some things about yourself you cant just accept as "that's who you are" and some crazy spirit popping up, taking over,  killing everyone in room, everytime you have a bad day is at the top of the list.

I don't mean it in that way. IMO a Friendship Hawke helps Anders learn to control Justice, mostly to control his own emotions and supports him in that way. Rivalry is more like "RAH! You are in ZERO control!" and gives no real help to solve the problem, instead just complains about the problem.

In my opinion, the times we really see Justice come forth is when Anders starts to lose his cool or starts feeling threatened in some way. This feeling is only compounded by whatever Justice is feeling, and it leads to him manifesting because he thinks he needs to take control. That is the way I have always personally interpreted it...at least on friendship path.

By accepting it I mean that he understands he can't change this, he has to learn to live with Justice. Not that he is just cool with freaking out every 5 minutes on Templars. Me saying "that's who he is" is just because there is no way to separate Justice from Anders...therefore he technically is "Janders" as many people like to call him.

I mean, he has lived with Justice for...in simply DA2 game time, like 10 years if you keep him alive in Last Straw. In Last Straw he pretty much has accepted what he is. His lines clearly indicate that to me..I would transcribe them here but I assume most people remember what he says. That doesn't mean I think, as you put it, he is cool with going nuts and killing people since he is having a bad day.

Actually I just reread your post...you are saying you think he accepts Justice on rivalry? That's...not..correct. Even Hepler identified that him and Justice "split sufficiently". Rivalry path, Hawke pretty much makes Anders hate himself. He is not one with Justice AT ALL. He begins suffering from blackouts because he can't even remember when Justice manifests at that point. By the time Act 3 rolls around, he has practically given up on even trying to battle Justice anymore. If anything he fights harder to control Justice on friendship path than he does on rivalry.

Not a huge deal but I thought I would mention it before it goes around the twist. Anders thread is usually just a couple posts down.

tsunderes wrote...

this is pretty off topic, but i dont know who else to turn to...
http://30.media.tumb...d4vxuo1_500.jpg

Does anyone know what these red streaks are on the back of Hawkes tunic? Is it a bunched up family crest? the symbol of kirkwall? or just jagged lines?
sorry to be so OT >_<

I never noticed those till now, but most of the Hawke specialty items and most outfits have a splash of red in there somewhere (So LI's can make their bands. ) So that just may be the more fashionable spot to place Mage outfit splash. 

Modifié par Fleshdress, 09 août 2011 - 12:29 .

[Ryzaki]

Fleshdress wrote...
No, I never see it as rape, but I do see it as being highly uncomfortable with what he is doing/allowing/wanting. My Hawke is so sensitive to that with Fenris they rival because of a difference in opinion my rivalmance was never cruel to him. So when he was refusing to look I myself was looking for a way to get my Hawke to back off. It felt too strange. If people are uncomfortable it's usally because they are not ready and I got that vibe big tiime.

Huh. I didn't get that vibe. He and Hawke certainly talked about it enough. Then again to me I just saw the refusal to look as not wanting to show Hawke any weakness. (That and happening to like getting necked. ). 

Though it's probably one of those YMMV things.

[tankgirly]

tsunderes wrote...

this is pretty off topic, but i dont know who else to turn to...
http://30.media.tumb...d4vxuo1_500.jpg

Does anyone know what these red streaks are on the back of Hawkes tunic? Is it a bunched up family crest? the symbol of kirkwall? or just jagged lines?
sorry to be so OT >_<

It looks like it's some lose leather that hold the tuni and her armour.

[Sealy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...
No, I never see it as rape, but I do see it as being highly uncomfortable with what he is doing/allowing/wanting. My Hawke is so sensitive to that with Fenris they rival because of a difference in opinion my rivalmance was never cruel to him. So when he was refusing to look I myself was looking for a way to get my Hawke to back off. It felt too strange. If people are uncomfortable it's usally because they are not ready and I got that vibe big tiime.

Huh. I didn't get that vibe. He and Hawke certainly talked about it enough. Then again to me I just saw the refusal to look as not wanting to show Hawke any weakness. (That and happening to like getting necked. ). 

Though it's probably one of those YMMV things.

You'll have to excuse my internet stupid but what does YMMV mean?

You're right the biggest factor must be rivaled Fenris liking hickies. Also, the smexiest factor. I have also at times though it was just amaybe a glitch like how often kisses don't seem to line up.

[Ryzaki]

Fleshdress wrote...
You'll have to excuse my internet stupid but what does YMMV mean?

You're right the biggest factor must be rivaled Fenris liking hickies. Also, the smexiest factor. I have also at times though it was just amaybe a glitch like how often kisses don't seem to line up.

Your Milage May Vary (basically people interpret things differently). 

Very smexy.  Though yeah that kiss not matching up disappointed me. But it was made up by that endgame kiss. UNF. <3

[UrsulaCousland]

Fleshdress wrote...

There is a lot of Anders, Izzy discussion going dowm over here. I had to double take to make sure I was in the Fenris thread.

I have decided to do a playthrough rivaling everyone... except Fenris cause even though I lurve his wall throwing scene, the way he refuses to look at Hawke if rivaled is creepy, usually if I rival him I let him leave for the glowy scene of yum and come back later, it doesn't seem like he is trying to shut my Hawke out then. But I prefer the wall slamming so friendmance it is. Does anyone else find that scene a little disturbing? What do you think is going through his mind?

Personally, I like letting him leave and come back.  To me, that seems more like Fenris is definitely making the "move", and is much more 'ready' for what he's doing. It doesn't hurt that I love the look he gives Hawke before the camera pulls back for the 'fireplace fade'.  That grin is priceless. *melt*  <3

I actually got the glow kiss first, but after seeing the non-glow kiss, I've preferred it ever since.

The end game kiss (and the emotion I imagine driving it) is well worth the 3-year gap IMO. 

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 09 août 2011 - 12:45 .

[Carmen_Willow]

My point wasn't that I expected Anders to commit suicide (although he does a pretty good job of suicide by cop when I play the game). It is that two men can come from similar circumstances and end up in very different places based on what they have inside them (no pun intended).

I don't agree that Fenris moves on because his story is over. There is a part of him that will always be enslaved. That scar will always be there. He moves on because he is able to see beyond his pain and anger. He moves on because he is able to step back and think...instead of feel...about his situation. He is able to take in new data and to some extent revise his hypothesis. Listen to his dialogue. He is always revaluating his theory. He's always saying something like "I will give it some thought." He's an intelligent man, and his ability to think through his pain is his salvation.

IMHO

[Sealy]

Ryzaki wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...
You'll have to excuse my internet stupid but what does YMMV mean?

You're right the biggest factor must be rivaled Fenris liking hickies. Also, the smexiest factor. I have also at times though it was just amaybe a glitch like how often kisses don't seem to line up.

Your Milage May Vary (basically people interpret things differently). 

Very smexy.  Though yeah that kiss not matching up disappointed me. But it was made up by that endgame kiss. UNF. <3

I have a save for right before and I watch it alot. Obsessivly, a little. My compaion can quote it, thats how much I watch it. I know a lot of people really love those Anders kisses, but they are too noisy for me, they make me shy, I like Fenris with his no grunty steath ninja kisses. Wasn't expecting him to jump my mage that first time, I prefer it with my male Hawkes cause Fenris tends to look all wrapped up and in my head, on his tip toes. *drool, drool*

[UrsulaCousland]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

My point wasn't that I expected Anders to commit suicide (although he does a pretty good job of suicide by cop when I play the game). It is that two men can come from similar circumstances and end up in very different places based on what they have inside them (no pun intended).

I don't agree that Fenris moves on because his story is over. There is a part of him that will always be enslaved. That scar will always be there. He moves on because he is able to see beyond his pain and anger. He moves on because he is able to step back and think...instead of feel...about his situation. He is able to take in new data and to some extent revise his hypothesis. Listen to his dialogue. He is always revaluating his theory. He's always saying something like "I will give it some thought." He's an intelligent man, and his ability to think through his pain is his salvation.

IMHO

This. I think someone else mentioned it earlier, but it seems like Anders becomes more emotion driven and driven in his views, while Fenris can manage to 'step back' a little and look at things outside of his hate/rage filter. (Especially if romanced either way.)  I think Anders has that ability to some extent earlier in the game, but especially as you reach act 3, he's pretty much lost it. (Maybe it's Justice/Vengeance taking over even more and 'ruling' by emotion, but I'm not sure. It's a theory.)

[Sepewrath]

Tidra wrote...
Actually I just reread your post...you are saying you think he accepts Justice on rivalry? That's...not..correct. Even Hepler identified that him and Justice "split sufficiently". Rivalry path, Hawke pretty much makes Anders hate himself. He is not one with Justice AT ALL. He begins suffering from blackouts because he can't even remember when Justice manifests at that point. By the time Act 3 rolls around, he has practically given up on even trying to battle Justice anymore. If anything he fights harder to control Justice and stay calm on friendship path than he does on rivalry..on rivalry it is just this losing battle with Justice. He only truly becomes "one" or "merges" with Justice on friendship, on rivalry it is like they are two different people. So he doesn't accept him on rivalry, he gives up. There's a difference.

I know what was said and it never made sense to me, it seems to me that an Anders alone in the world, would simply sink into his cause and embrace the extreme nature of Vengence. The fact that he doesn't really have that support that a friend would have and yet is better able to separate himself from Justice, doesn't make much sense to me. But I would think a friend Anders would try and separate himself from Justice, to keep it under control, of course he doesn't deny what he is, because he couldn't control it if he did. Seems backwards to me, the way they say it.

[Ryzaki]

Fleshdress wrote...
I have a save for right before and I watch it alot. Obsessivly, a little. My compaion can quote it, thats how much I watch it. I know a lot of people really love those Anders kisses, but they are too noisy for me, they make me shy, I like Fenris with his no grunty steath ninja kisses. Wasn't expecting him to jump my mage that first time, I prefer it with my male Hawkes cause Fenris tends to look all wrapped up and in my head, on his tip toes. *drool, drool*

LOL you're not the only one!  

Yes the first pounce was followed by a loud SQUEEEE!  

And on his tippy toes just makes the image sexier and cuter. <3

[Sinaxi]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

My point wasn't that I expected Anders to commit suicide (although he does a pretty good job of suicide by cop when I play the game). It is that two men can come from similar circumstances and end up in very different places based on what they have inside them (no pun intended).

I don't agree that Fenris moves on because his story is over. There is a part of him that will always be enslaved. That scar will always be there. He moves on because he is able to see beyond his pain and anger. He moves on because he is able to step back and think...instead of feel...about his situation. He is able to take in new data and to some extent revise his hypothesis. Listen to his dialogue. He is always revaluating his theory. He's always saying something like "I will give it some thought." He's an intelligent man, and his ability to think through his pain is his salvation.

I didn't say his story was over, I said his cause was over. Do you think that Fenris would have been able to move on if he didn't get closure with the entire Danarius/Sister situation? I don't think he would have been able to. It would have eaten him alive eventually..especially since he wouldn't have been able to forget about it since Danarius would have continued hunting him no matter what.

Now that he was able to put that behind him though, I can see him starting anew. I'm not disagreeing he will always have those scars, because he will. Part of the reason he is able to start fresh is because he has resolved those situations, and that ultimately helps him think through his pain and step back and analyze his situation. That is why he is able to move on.

[Sealy]

Sepewrath wrote...

Tidra wrote...
Actually I just reread your post...you are saying you think he accepts Justice on rivalry? That's...not..correct. Even Hepler identified that him and Justice "split sufficiently". Rivalry path, Hawke pretty much makes Anders hate himself. He is not one with Justice AT ALL. He begins suffering from blackouts because he can't even remember when Justice manifests at that point. By the time Act 3 rolls around, he has practically given up on even trying to battle Justice anymore. If anything he fights harder to control Justice and stay calm on friendship path than he does on rivalry..on rivalry it is just this losing battle with Justice. He only truly becomes "one" or "merges" with Justice on friendship, on rivalry it is like they are two different people. So he doesn't accept him on rivalry, he gives up. There's a difference.

I know what was said and it never made sense to me, it seems to me that an Anders alone in the world, would simply sink into his cause and embrace the extreme nature of Vengence. The fact that he doesn't really have that support that a friend would have and yet is better able to separate himself from Justice, doesn't make much sense to me. But I would think a friend Anders would try and separate himself from Justice, to keep it under control, of course he doesn't deny what he is, because he couldn't control it if he did. Seems backwards to me, the way they say it.

Guys c'mon,  At least pretend you aren't just talking about Anders in the Fen thread by slipping his name into your posts once, I really don't like the character and tend to avoid reading post about his personality so I don't end up bashing him. Hence usually living in here... unless I am talking about DAA Anders, that I do in the Anders thread too.