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The Official Fenris Discussion thread


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#43001
Sealy

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autumnyte wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

Darkrose: Uhg, I won't link it since most everything is out of context but apparently Gaider refers to the language as Tevinter, and a Dragon Age pen-and-paper RPG guide says that a Circle Mage would start out knowing "Ancient Tevine."  I think though I haen't checked yet that the DAwiki also refers to it as Tevene, or Tevine.


This has been driving me nuts, so I've done all the research I could. In DG's short story about Fenris, he refers to the language as "Tevinter". I have not found any other canon source that refers to the language by name. In fanon, it is widely referred to as Arcanum, but that seems to have originated in the DA wiki, there is no source for it, and nothing in the game, books or Codex ever refers to it as "Arcanum". No clue where that even came from.


Bioware released the RPG guide that called it ancient Tevine so I guess that is canon.

http://www.youblishe...Player-s-Guide/

it's on page 22. Apparently, I haven't bothered checking I am too lazy.

#43002
UrsulaCousland

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Doc, hubby is giving me that look again (the what-are-you-giggling-at-now-on-the-Fenris-thread-look). Well played. : D

#43003
autumnyte

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Fleshdress wrote...

autumnyte wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

Darkrose: Uhg, I won't link it since most everything is out of context but apparently Gaider refers to the language as Tevinter, and a Dragon Age pen-and-paper RPG guide says that a Circle Mage would start out knowing "Ancient Tevine."  I think though I haen't checked yet that the DAwiki also refers to it as Tevene, or Tevine.


This has been driving me nuts, so I've done all the research I could. In DG's short story about Fenris, he refers to the language as "Tevinter". I have not found any other canon source that refers to the language by name. In fanon, it is widely referred to as Arcanum, but that seems to have originated in the DA wiki, there is no source for it, and nothing in the game, books or Codex ever refers to it as "Arcanum". No clue where that even came from.


Bioware released the RPG guide that called it ancient Tevine so I guess that is canon.

http://www.youblishe...Player-s-Guide/

it's on page 22. Apparently, I haven't bothered checking I am too lazy.


Oh, thanks for that! I don't have the RPG guide, so I hadn't been able to verify that firsthand. It's too bad, because I actually like 'Arcanum' best. 

#43004
tankgirly

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autumnyte wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

autumnyte wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

Darkrose: Uhg, I won't link it since most everything is out of context but apparently Gaider refers to the language as Tevinter, and a Dragon Age pen-and-paper RPG guide says that a Circle Mage would start out knowing "Ancient Tevine."  I think though I haen't checked yet that the DAwiki also refers to it as Tevene, or Tevine.


This has been driving me nuts, so I've done all the research I could. In DG's short story about Fenris, he refers to the language as "Tevinter". I have not found any other canon source that refers to the language by name. In fanon, it is widely referred to as Arcanum, but that seems to have originated in the DA wiki, there is no source for it, and nothing in the game, books or Codex ever refers to it as "Arcanum". No clue where that even came from.


Bioware released the RPG guide that called it ancient Tevine so I guess that is canon.

http://www.youblishe...Player-s-Guide/

it's on page 22. Apparently, I haven't bothered checking I am too lazy.


Oh, thanks for that! I don't have the RPG guide, so I hadn't been able to verify that firsthand. It's too bad, because I actually like 'Arcanum' best. 


Is that the same hardcopy you can get when they released DAII back in March? I have a copy.

Yeah, Arcanum sounds way more cool.

#43005
Sinaxi

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Hah. Look what I saw on Deviantart....I assumed you all would appreciate this...

Posted Image
by sandara

#43006
Sealy

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one of the first fenris pics I saw on PoT. I think Fenris should wear his shirt like that all day every day.Posted Image

Modifié par Fleshdress, 10 août 2011 - 06:13 .


#43007
Arquen

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I found the girl you guys were talking about with all the resources into Tevinter language.

Basically there seems to be no in-game justification for Arcanum. DG never says "Arcanum" and only calls it Tevinter. Yet there is also only a reference to ancient Tevene in the codex. This indicates that the modern language may just be Tevene. Seriously though I would like to know where they got Arcanum then. The only reference I can see or find to Arcanum is another RPG that came out around the same time as Dragon Age Origins, and has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Also, because as a linguistically/language inclined person I love to study these things. Though the last time I tried to learn a fantasy language *cough*Tolkien*cough* I got strange looks.

I've been calling it Arcanum because of the wiki, but it seems the more correct (at least according to the linguistic fans) is Tevene. There really isn't anything official to support if they are right or wrong, but there is more in-game evidence for calling it Tevene than Arcanum.

For you fellow language nuts:

http://archiveofouro...otally Made.pdf

Modifié par Arquen, 10 août 2011 - 06:18 .


#43008
Sealy

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Arquen wrote...

I found the girl you guys were talking about with all the resources into Tevinter language.

Basically there seems to be no in-game justification for Arcanum. DG never says "Arcanum" and only calls it Tevinter. Yet there is also only a reference to ancient Tevene in the codex. This indicates that the modern language may just be Tevene. Seriously though I would like to know where they got Arcanum then. The only reference I can see or find to Arcanum is another RPG that came out around the same time as Dragon Age Origins, and has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

 
Someone posted it as Arcanum in the DA wikidictionary and I am pretty sure that girl you found is also the one who corrected it. People were pretty sure the person who posted arcanum was a troll since they had translations for "pull my finger". Though Arcanum was a pretty sweet name to troll with.

I prefer Tevene though, for some odd reason arcanum sounds familar.

Edit: I blame the spelling on Izzy, she is distracting.

Modifié par Fleshdress, 10 août 2011 - 06:26 .


#43009
tsunderes

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You guys might be interested in this tshirt
http://waiting4codot...stomize/color/2

#43010
Arquen

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I want a shirt that says his "Na via lerno victoria" with his lyrium ghost symbol on it somewhere.

LoL, I should make this shirt on one of those sites. I bet there are a ton of good ones out there already.

#43011
Ineffable Igor

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asdlkfjdhkg!  I leave for three days and THIS happens?  I thought things had slowed down in here since ye olden pre-release days.  Though granted, it was only ten pages I had to read through as opposed to thirty.  I'm exagerating, as per usual.

Okay, two things I want to weigh in on:

Ninalupa wrote...
Have you guys read aicosu's tumblr? She has relayed some of the answers Gaider gave on DA2 etc, one focuses on Fenris:

"-
Did you get the sense that Danarius had a really sketchy (*cough*
intimate *cough*) relationship with Fenris? Yeah, you weren’t exactly
wrong…. :/"

http://tinyurl.com/4xc63um


Nice to have a bit of confirmation on this particular...aspect of Fenris and Danarius's relationship, if you could call it that.  It was definitely heavily implied, but given different arguments made by fans I was always on the fence about whether or not this was the case.  I didn't think I could hate Danarius more, but hey!  I'm not always right.  *Is filled with righteous indignance on Fenris's behalf.  And rage.  Much rage.*

Fleshdress wrote...

I like the friendship wall glowing scene as well. I am iffy about the rival one. I don't like the inability he gains that keeps him from even looking at Hawke. Though I do like the "he just enjoys necking more on the rival path" explanation. ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png

I may be the one blending though, I am working on memory for the rival wall kiss because I skip it after it made me uneasy the first time.


I have always opperated under the assumption that the rivalry head turn is a glitch.  You can see his face doing animations while it's turned away from you, I assume they're the ones you get to see in the friendship scene.  The other thing that makes me think this is that the kiss does not line up at ALL and the eyelines are wonky for the rest of that scene.  Also, his head stays turned for the entire thing and does not move from that position, thus the necking (which is kinda hot, actually :wub:).

So, I don't think it was meant to be the way it is, and I agree that the whole "not looking at you even though I am all passionate and frustrated" thing is quite off-putting.  In the rivalry I feel like a more confrontational "stare you downohscrewitEATFACE" situation is much more in keeping with the way they build things up throughout the game if you're playing a rivalry romance. 

But, once again, I am not always right.  Oh, Grand Poobah, why can you not swoop in every once in a while to assuage our doubts? 

Modifié par Ineffable Igor, 10 août 2011 - 07:42 .


#43012
ReiSilver

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Ineffable Igor wrote...

asdlkfjdhkg!  I leave for three days and THIS happens?  I thought things had slowed down in here since ye olden pre-release days.  Though granted, it was only ten pages I had to read through as opposed to thirty.  I'm exagerating, as per usual.

Okay, two things I want to weigh in on:

Ninalupa wrote...
Have you guys read aicosu's tumblr? She has relayed some of the answers Gaider gave on DA2 etc, one focuses on Fenris:

"-
Did you get the sense that Danarius had a really sketchy (*cough*
intimate *cough*) relationship with Fenris? Yeah, you weren’t exactly
wrong…. :/"

http://tinyurl.com/4xc63um


Nice to have a bit of confirmation on this particular...aspect of Fenris and Danarius's relationship, if you could call it that.  It was definitely heavily implied, but given different arguments made by fans I was always on the fence about whether or not this was the case.  I didn't think I could hate Danarius more, but hey!  I'm not always right.  *Is filled with righteous indignance on Fenris's behalf.  And rage.  Much rage.*


I certainly got that vibe when Danarius had his "The lad is quite skilled" line *shudder* On the one hand I'm glad I wasn't seeing things that weren't there... on the other poor, poor Fenris.

Ineffable Igor wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

I like the friendship wall glowing scene as well. I am iffy about the rival one. I don't like the inability he gains that keeps him from even looking at Hawke. Though I do like the "he just enjoys necking more on the rival path" explanation. ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png

I may be the one blending though, I am working on memory for the rival wall kiss because I skip it after it made me uneasy the first time.


I have always opperated under the assumption that the rivalry head turn is a glitch.  You can see his face doing animations while it's turned away from you, I assume they're the ones you get to see in the friendship scene.  The other thing that makes me think this is that the kiss does not line up at ALL and the eyelines are wonky for the rest of that scene.  Also, his head stays turned for the entire thing and does not move from that position, thus the necking (which is kinda hot, actually :wub:).

So, I don't think it was meant to be the way it is, and I agree that the whole "not looking at you even though I am all passionate and frustrated" thing is quite off-putting.  In the rivalry I feel like a more confrontational "stare you downohscrewitEATFACE" situation is much more in keeping with the way they build things up throughout the game if you're playing a rivalry romance. 

But, once again, I am not always right.  Oh, Grand Poobah, why can you not swoop in every once in a while to assuage our doubts? 


Pretty much agree with everything here. The wall slamming just seemed very apt for the big-swirly-rivalry-emotions and belligerent-sexual-tension and I just couldn't see my Hawke who rivalmances Fenris letting him walk out at that point, it was very in-characetr for him to try and grab Fenris' arm.
I also think the head-turn is an animation glitch, the whole scene is a bit buggy, if you chose the option too quickly Fenris is floating in mid air until Hawke touches his arm. :unsure:

#43013
darkrose

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Fleshdress wrote...
Darkrose: Uhg, I won't link it since most everything is out of context but apparently Gaider refers to the language as Tevinter, and a Dragon Age pen-and-paper RPG guide says that a Circle Mage would start out knowing "Ancient Tevine."  I think though I haen't checked yet that the DAwiki also refers to it as Tevene, or Tevine.


The DAWiki is where I got Arcanum from. In the article on the Tevinter Imperium it says, "Arcanum, the official language of the Imperium, was designed to be a potential distant ancestor to English, or more precisely the various aspects of Latin that English borrows from extensively."

It's not sourced, though, so I have no idea if that's the Word of God or not.

#43014
darkrose

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Fleshdress wrote...
Bioware released the RPG guide that called it ancient Tevine so I guess that is canon.

http://www.youblishe...Player-s-Guide/

it's on page 22. Apparently, I haven't bothered checking I am too lazy.


I'm not sure the RPG guide should be considered canon. Based on the map distances, there is no possible way that the Fifth Blight could have been over in a year; you simply can't do that much walking with that much backtracking. 

Of course, canon in this fandom has always been rather fluid. :happy:   I just want to know if I need to do a search-and-replace on my DA2 fics when I have Fenris speaking grammatically incorrect Latin (courtesy of Google Translate).

#43015
Sir Edric

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Tidra wrote...

Hah. Look what I saw on Deviantart....I assumed you all would appreciate this...

Posted Image
by sandara


DAT CLAWS!

#43016
Arquen

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I can't really consider any of the guides canon because they are most of the time extremely wrong. I think in the DA2 player's guide it says Fenris moves in with you. It is riddled with other such things that don't make sense or don't happen in game.

I take it all with a grain of salt, but when I was looking up Arcanum I got nothing. When I looked up Tevene I got a codex entry, a reference in The Calling, and that RPG guide which seems to stay true at least to the lore of Dragon Age. Therefore, I'm inclined to lean more toward Tevene.

As for the Danarius thing... I have not weighed in on that yet since I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about it. It was very ambiguous ... "yeah.. you weren't exactly wrong." -- Well were we right about explicit sexual abuse or was it just short of that? Ambiguity makes my brain speculate to dark places which just makes me angry and frustrated and I end up wanting to punch a wall, LOL.

Also, what about what Fenris says to Female Hawke about how "If there was anyone before, I don't remember them..." We either throw that out as him deliberately omitting Danarius or we assume it wasn't technically sex. Again my brain and my psyche wince and I seriously feel ill thinking about these things. I'm going to assume and speculate that it was everything short of full on sex.

Still in my grieving process about it though. If it truly was *cough*intimate*cough* Then I am somewhere between denial, anger, and bargaining for Fenris. Seriously, my brain wanders to all those that were like "but he was a beloved Bodyguard, and didn't have it so bad!" -- I seriously get this overwhelming urge to punch something. I just feel if I start going to deep on the subject it just can't go anywhere good.

However.... this cheers me up...

Posted Image

#43017
UrsulaCousland

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Arquen wrote...

*snip* (Tevene works for me. :) )

As for the Danarius thing... I have not weighed in on that yet since I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about it. It was very ambiguous ... "yeah.. you weren't exactly wrong." -- Well were we right about explicit sexual abuse or was it just short of that? Ambiguity makes my brain speculate to dark places which just makes me angry and frustrated and I end up wanting to punch a wall, LOL.

Also, what about what Fenris says to Female Hawke about how "If there was anyone before, I don't remember them..." We either throw that out as him deliberately omitting Danarius or we assume it wasn't technically sex. Again my brain and my psyche wince and I seriously feel ill thinking about these things. I'm going to assume and speculate that it was everything short of full on sex.

I agree - there's a lot of room for interpretation in that statement. I'm still sorting through the implications. I'm not sure it's possible to want Danarius dead any more than I already do, but still...there's all kinds of creepy there even if it's more exploitation than outright abuse/'intimacy'/what have you.

There are a few possibilities that suggest why Fenris puts it this way to a femHawke.  Either he's blocking it out (more trauma/self-defense), he's recently had a memory wipe of some kind, or he's done everything he can to move past it by lumping it in with the rest of the baggage of everything else he did as a slave (murdering the Fog Warriors, whose only 'crime' was helping him, and Maker only knows what else.). We all know Danarius is all kinds of depraved. Maker only knows what other orders (having nothing to do with the *cough*intimacy*cough* Danarius had him carry out. I don't want to consider it any further than that.. 

Arquen wrote...

Still in my grieving process about it though. If it truly was *cough*intimate*cough* Then I am somewhere between denial, anger, and bargaining for Fenris. Seriously, my brain wanders to all those that were like "but he was a beloved Bodyguard, and didn't have it so bad!" -- I seriously get this overwhelming urge to punch something. I just feel if I start going to deep on the subject it just can't go anywhere good.

Yeah...for me, it's actually easier for me to try to give Hawke a parallel torment of some kind (even though it's nowhere on the magnitude of what Fenris or any other slave might have experienced), and I don't like that vs my concept of Hawke,  either. My mind can, unfortunately, go to dark places. I try to avoid that (why I prefer High fantasy to Dark), and this isn't helping.

Arquen wrote..

However.... this cheers me up...

Posted Image


Indeed. I'm not anywhere close to this yet on the newly restarted canon PT, but I have an old save somewhere that has this... I think I need to go see Danarius go squish a few more times. :devil:

#43018
Tealsie

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UrsulaCousland wrote...

Arquen wrote..

However.... this cheers me up...

[snip squishy Danarius]


Indeed. I'm not anywhere close to this yet on the newly restarted canon PT, but I have an old save somewhere that has this... I think I need to go see Danarius go squish a few more times:devil:

Shale would approve... actually, I have an odd feeling Shale would just about cheer any time Hawke lets Fenris squish someone. Posted Image

[offtopic] does anyone have any(or know where I can find some) good screens of Zevran(origins, NOT his DA2 appearance *heartbreaking* )... just theface from a couple different angles? sideview, front, 3/4...

#43019
Annarl

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 http://th07.devianta...yte-d460w1e.jpg

Posted Image
how it should be by Dino-Myte
I thought this image was cute!!

Everyone hanging out at the Hanged Man :D

Modifié par omearaee, 10 août 2011 - 03:46 .


#43020
Dr. Doctor

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autumnyte wrote...
Oh, thanks for that! I don't have the RPG guide, so I hadn't been able to verify that firsthand. It's too bad, because I actually like 'Arcanum' best. 


There could be different dialects of the Tevinter language. Arcanum being the language that the Magisters uses, Tevene for the slave and non-magical classes, and Ancient Tevene for scholars and those who study magic outside of Tevinter. Think of it like Latin, nobody speaks it anymore but most european languages are based off of it.

On the subject of Fenris just calling it Tevinter, considering that most people outside of the Imperium see it as an "Evil place where dark magic rules" they probably tend to shun learning about Tevinter culture, just calling it Tevinter makes it that much easier.

#43021
Sialater

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BPearl12 wrote...

Can all you voice actor experts listen to this? I think it's Gideon Emery voicing a character in Guild Wars 2. What I think is his voice is in the audio called "arching boughs": http://www.arena.net...he-sylvari-soul If that is him then I'm going to be all over this game looking for NPCs that sound like Fenris.


Nope, not him.  I checked the IMDB listing for both him and GW2 to verify.  He's in SWTOR, though.

#43022
Arquen

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Dr. Doctor wrote...

autumnyte wrote...
Oh, thanks for that! I don't have the RPG guide, so I hadn't been able to verify that firsthand. It's too bad, because I actually like 'Arcanum' best. 


There could be different dialects of the Tevinter language. Arcanum being the language that the Magisters uses, Tevene for the slave and non-magical classes, and Ancient Tevene for scholars and those who study magic outside of Tevinter. Think of it like Latin, nobody speaks it anymore but most european languages are based off of it.

On the subject of Fenris just calling it Tevinter, considering that most people outside of the Imperium see it as an "Evil place where dark magic rules" they probably tend to shun learning about Tevinter culture, just calling it Tevinter makes it that much easier.


Fenris never calls it anything. He just says "it means..." and mentions Tevinter Imperium, but no reference to the language. At least not that I remember. DG was the one who said Tevinter in reference to the language.

As far as Ancient Tevene, it is a dead language that is indeed like Latin and only Magisters and scholars and high up officials know how to read it. Scholars and Magisters speak it as well as others, but the written language is only taught to the most high ranking scholars and individuals. Least according to that guide, which I'm inclined to believe on that point. I don't think there is a seperate dialect called Arcanum. Honestly I have found NOTHING about Arcanum. It is like the word came out of nowhere. I would be willing to believe it was a dialect if there were any kind of evidence to say it existed at all.

In the circles Ancient Tevene is one of the languages taught, and obviously Anders knows how to read at least some kind of Tevene because he studies the Tevinter texts about the "potion"  err.. bomb. So it must be at least fairly common for Tevene or at least Tevinter culture to be studied. Even though Anders does say they make Tevinter sound like the void itself so no doubt they have their own spin on it, lol.

I'm inclined to just agree that it is Tevene all around for the common folk and slaves. The ancient Tevene would be only for scholars, and the reading and writing of ancient Tevene reserved for Magisters and high ranking officials. No doubt the most powerful spells and such are written in ancient Tevene.

#43023
UrsulaCousland

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omearaee wrote...

 http://th07.devianta...yte-d460w1e.jpg

Posted Image
how it should be by Dino-Myte
I thought this image was cute!!

Everyone hanging out at the Hanged Man :D

This is 5 kinds of awesome. I love Oghren chasing the Dog and Ser Pounce near enough to Fenris for an ear-scratch or two. ;)

#43024
tankgirly

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Wonder what would happen if Varric and Orghen met?

#43025
Bayz

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Dwarven Epicness unleashed...that and that Sighrun will have to run FAST