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[UrsulaCousland]

Dark_Angel_115 wrote...

Anyone know if the LI Fenris dialogue in Legacy is working? Have waited to play it till...might just have to suffer through my first run of it with my Anders LI.

Not that I'm aware of , unfortunately.

ETA: Again with the ToP! Since the last one by alsiony seemed appreciated, here's another I liked.

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 14 août 2011 - 04:25 .

[Merilsell]

*runs in*

ReiSilver wrote...
I have speak in defence of the Dalish here. Some of the Dalish warriors in DA2 are wearing equivalent of full chain mail. In Witch Hunt you can travel with Ariane who is a dual weilding warrior sporting two long swords.
Fenris is wearing leather armor with a chest plate and gauntlets, using speed and strength, it's hardly full or heavy plate.
The Dalish have a lot that make them unique in the world of fantasy elves. They aren't all-knowing and perfect, they barely know any of their old language, they are vulnerable, live life on the run and most humans think they're savages. They have a very unique culture that they continually fight to keep and reclaim, etching the mark of their pantheon onto their faces for all to see

I just dislike the tendency I see where people see a elf touching a bow and living anywhere near trees and automatically file them under cliche-elves

*Dalish fist bump*

You describe perfectly why I love the Dalish so much. (So much that I write a never-ending FF about it, lol) Good post.

Oh, and Fenris rocks. He was one of the very few characters in DA2 I actually liked. Although his romance had the "Sex? What Sex?" amnesia for a couple of (ingame) years, it was a quite satifying one. So far I can use the word "satisfying" in connection with DA2, however. Cough.

Anyway... I love my elves grumpy, so Fenris fits quite the frame.

*run away again* 

Modifié par Merilsell, 14 août 2011 - 04:31 .

[Dr. Doctor]

Prompt time.

Diamond Back

The Hanged Man

Hawke: ...And that's it for me, I'm out.

Isabela: Oh come on Hawke it's only the third hand.

Hawke: While that may be the case I'm out of coin, I guess I'll just be heading home then.

Fenris: (glares at Anders from across the table)

Anders: No.

Fenris: (raises an eyebrow)

Anders: I told you, next week.

Fenris: (Tilts his head in Hawke's direction and holds his hand out towards Anders)

Anders: (sighs) Fine. (hands Fenris a coin purse) You're worse than the flaming Coterie.

Fenris: (smirking) Those who gamble should be prepared to lose. (turns to face Hawke) Perhaps I can be of assistance? (holds up the purse)

Hawke: Thanks Fen.

Fenris: It would be a shame to have you leave us so soon.

Anders: (muttering under his breath) "It would be a shame to have you leave us so soon."  Bah.

[SurrealSadi]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Carmen_Willow wrote...
Aveline seldom gets to leave the barracks for the same reason.  Fenris does a fine job of drawing aggo. And I just like having him around!

Fenris + Aveline with the Vanguard path maxed out + mage!Hawke with Haste. Have Fen and Aveline use Assail and Cleave and then cast Haste. Fighting with that is like watching someone mow a lawn. Except the lawn mowers are swords. And the grass is the broken and battered bodies of the enemy.

Can you do the same with a S&S Hawke while you control someone else?

Yes, Anders can cast Haste on the party. I use a S&S Hawke with the Berzerker and Reaver spec along with Vanguard.

Using  Assail, Cleave, and Sacrificial Frenzy before engaging an enemy increases damage dealt by 250% with the Blade of A Thousand Battles, Primeval Lyrium Rune, Barrage, and Haste in use Hawke swings 137% faster than normal. If you have the Reaver's  Fervor ability added killing an enemy will increase the total speed boost to 167% faster than standard swing speed.

See that Qunari mage over there? Yeah that one that does the shiny disco ball of death thing. With this set up you can tear that smug look off of his face at mach speed.

Huh. Wow. I'll have to save this set up for another runthrough. My current S&S Hawke is playing with Templar skills while rivalmancing Anders.

[Arquen]

Lmao doc that's great. Fenris is going to end up being the guy everyone owes something to, lol. Poor Anders everyone keeps suggesting he is the worst card player, lmao. Isabella and varric must own them all though. However, im sure izzy can't cheat her way to victory so fenris still might end up the winner, muahaha.

As for dislike thing.. pretty much agree with you igor. I never really saw fenris as out of place or irrelevant. To me he always belonged and I like how his quests are more personal. It feels like your actually not stuck on the mage/Templars choo choo train plot device. I appreciate that. Fenris has enough of a hook for me to not need him stealing relics or blowing up chantries.

[Dr. Doctor]

Templar is a great class for taking down powerful opponents in single combat, Holy Smite can knock back opponents, opening them up for attack by Hawke or other party members, while the fully upgraded version of Cleanse or Silence can shut down enemy commanders, assassins or mages long enough for a killing blow.

Fenris' specialization makes him sort of a Templar-Reaver, he has a lot of abilities in that spec that make him perfect for dealing with magic users and fade creatures, but the catch is that he needs a good chunk of stamina to use those abilities.

Usually my Fenris builds give him Bolster, and Second Wind to keep him running along with  Cleave, Assail, and  Massacre. These Vanguard talents not only boost Fen's damage output, but Massacre allows him to kill his target when they're 80% damaged for grunts or 90% damaged for higher ranks.

Also another handy thing is to go into the tactics menu and adjust the tactic that makes him use Mighty Blow against the first target he encounters.

Setting the tactic so that he only uses Mighty Blow when a target is made Brittle or is the highest health in the room not only means that you're not waiting for the ability to recharge, but you also can trigger it when you need it. Also setting up a tactic that has Fenris use a Stamina Draught when his Stamina is >10% will keep him in the game longer.

Note that putting in these tactics is a lot easier than setting up a loop that has Anders activate Panacea when a party member has 20% health remaining, which then triggers Aid Allies that heals the party, which then deactivates Panacea so that Anders can use offensive spells, which then makes Anders drink a Lyrium Potion so that he can regain the mana lost from casting Panacea. That set of tactics took forever to figure out.

[Arquen]

To tell the truth I use a mod that allows Anders to cast group heal without panacea. That whole must be in a certain mode to use x skill peeves me.

As for Fen I agree on that build completely. Esp. The stam tactics.

[Harle Cerulean]

Ineffable Igor wrote...

Arquen wrote...

Oooooo I love that Fenris pic. Also, sup guys.....

At work but wanted to chime in. Its funny how people see Fenris as not so much a cliché elf, but a lot of people see him as cliché emo, angst, final fantasy reject. So really you don't win against cliché.

Personally I want to punch something when I see that as a reason to dislike something. People have their biases though so that is how it is. The best argument I have seen for not liking Fenris is because his personal story seems irrelevant to the main plot. Its hard to defend Danarius as fitting in with Templars/mages. Either way I love the character enough to not really care about this, but it is the only reason that I can understand people not liking him for.

*Snip*

Those reasons for dislike irritate me as well.  Particularly the Final Fantasy/JRPG thing.  I'd be more understanding if there were no explaination for why he looks so outlandish, but there is, it's a major part of his background.  And beyond the fact that he has the lyrium lines and his hair has gone white (I have always been intensely curious about the hair and why it is that way, speaking of which) he just looks like any other elf, albeit a rather attractive one (Why is there no smirking emoticon?  I need one).

The "He lacks plot relevence" argument people have for not liking him makes much more sense.  I can see where they're coming from and I think they are perfectly justified in their opinion, even if I don't share it.  Personally I feel Fenris does have plot relevence, though in a much more abstract sense than, say, Anders or Varric.  He's there as an example of what horrible atrocities mages are capable of, just as Anders is there to show you how much damage the templars have done.  Both are there to make the player question their decisions regarding the main issue of the plot as they play through (though I think Fenris does this a bit more than Anders since he comes to the table with a more controversial viewpoint, by modern standards (I really could have done with some characters like them in Origins, actually, you're never presented with any good argument for why what you're doing may not really be the best decision, everyone's too busy telling you how great you are)).  Still, I can totally understand why some people would rather have a character who is, to some degree, a plot device than a character who's essentially just there to give perspective.

Precisely.  I can never understand why some people find him irrelevant: he's your living, current testimony that magic can **** normal people up.  Instead of being based in Chantry doctrine, like practically every other anti-magic argument, his arguments are based on his experiences.  He's there to remind the player that while mages may be people too, mages are people with power, and power corrupts.  He's there to remind you that powerful mages abusing non-mages (and mages who are less powerful) isn't a thing of the past that could never happen again, it's something happening right now in the one country that doesn't regulate mages.

He's there to be a counterpoint, to make you think "Well, yes, Anders has a point, but he's not right, either."  Because he does!  Anders has a very valid point.  Mages are treated unfairly, and the current system is too easily abused.  But his solution (freedom for all, no rules or regulation) is rubbish.  Just like Fenris has a point - magic is very, very dangerous when abused.  It's an entirely unfair advantage, and a mage is, frankly, a tremendous risk to those around them if the mage isn't strong-willed and moral.  And he is the only person in your party to voice these concerns.  Aveline supports the Templars, but she supports them out of her commitment to the law and to order.  She's not a voice of "why mages should be feared."  (Speaking of which, Anders, that line.  You want people to not fear mages, don't you?  Because mages are all harmless and innocent and wouldn't hurt a fly if it weren't for big nasty Templars?  So why that battle cry?)

But back on topic . . .   Frankly If someone can't see his relevance, they either haven't spent enough time talking to him, or the entire time was spent with their fingers in their ears going "LA LA LA EMO FINAL FANTASY ELF CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY ALSO HOW DARE HE THINK MAGIC IS BAD IT'S NOT LIKE IT EVER HURT HIM."  No, his story isn't directly tied up in the conflicts of the game, but it is involved, by simple nature.  He is a former slave to a free mage, in the only country where mages have the right to do as they please.  This is very relevant to a story that leads to a conflict over whether or not mages should be free.

[Arquen]

Or they simply don't find his story interesting which boggles me. This is preaching to the choir though. Nothing will convince Fenris haters to see past their own view. *shrug*

I also see his hook as very simple yet effective. Hawke is putting together an expedition. Hawke meets a unique warrior who is a living weapon. He offers his service and loyalty in exchange for helping him kill a slaver, blood mage, general scumbag that Hawke probably would kill off anyway for the greater good. Win-win. I think it is his blunt nature and viper comment that gain disdain.

They want him to be like "omg thank you so much for helping me! My undying gratitude and service to you!" If he did that I would gag, seriously. I prefer his confrontational blunt statements. Others shut him out as being an ungrateful **** for it. Then they just go through the game counting the times he is mean and go "he's a meaaniiee head. I don't like meanie heads." Lol.

[Ineffable Igor]

I adore meanie heads!  It's usually the first indication of someone very interesting.

[esper]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Ineffable Igor wrote...

Arquen wrote...

Oooooo I love that Fenris pic. Also, sup guys.....

At work but wanted to chime in. Its funny how people see Fenris as not so much a cliché elf, but a lot of people see him as cliché emo, angst, final fantasy reject. So really you don't win against cliché.

Personally I want to punch something when I see that as a reason to dislike something. People have their biases though so that is how it is. The best argument I have seen for not liking Fenris is because his personal story seems irrelevant to the main plot. Its hard to defend Danarius as fitting in with Templars/mages. Either way I love the character enough to not really care about this, but it is the only reason that I can understand people not liking him for.

*Snip*

Those reasons for dislike irritate me as well.  Particularly the Final Fantasy/JRPG thing.  I'd be more understanding if there were no explaination for why he looks so outlandish, but there is, it's a major part of his background.  And beyond the fact that he has the lyrium lines and his hair has gone white (I have always been intensely curious about the hair and why it is that way, speaking of which) he just looks like any other elf, albeit a rather attractive one (Why is there no smirking emoticon?  I need one).

The "He lacks plot relevence" argument people have for not liking him makes much more sense.  I can see where they're coming from and I think they are perfectly justified in their opinion, even if I don't share it.  Personally I feel Fenris does have plot relevence, though in a much more abstract sense than, say, Anders or Varric.  He's there as an example of what horrible atrocities mages are capable of, just as Anders is there to show you how much damage the templars have done.  Both are there to make the player question their decisions regarding the main issue of the plot as they play through (though I think Fenris does this a bit more than Anders since he comes to the table with a more controversial viewpoint, by modern standards (I really could have done with some characters like them in Origins, actually, you're never presented with any good argument for why what you're doing may not really be the best decision, everyone's too busy telling you how great you are)).  Still, I can totally understand why some people would rather have a character who is, to some degree, a plot device than a character who's essentially just there to give perspective.

Precisely.  I can never understand why some people find him irrelevant: he's your living, current testimony that magic can **** normal people up.  Instead of being based in Chantry doctrine, like practically every other anti-magic argument, his arguments are based on his experiences.  He's there to remind the player that while mages may be people too, mages are people with power, and power corrupts.  He's there to remind you that powerful mages abusing non-mages (and mages who are less powerful) isn't a thing of the past that could never happen again, it's something happening right now in the one country that doesn't regulate mages.

He's there to be a counterpoint, to make you think "Well, yes, Anders has a point, but he's not right, either."  Because he does!  Anders has a very valid point.  Mages are treated unfairly, and the current system is too easily abused.  But his solution (freedom for all, no rules or regulation) is rubbish.  Just like Fenris has a point - magic is very, very dangerous when abused.  It's an entirely unfair advantage, and a mage is, frankly, a tremendous risk to those around them if the mage isn't strong-willed and moral.  And he is the only person in your party to voice these concerns.  Aveline supports the Templars, but she supports them out of her commitment to the law and to order.  She's not a voice of "why mages should be feared."  (Speaking of which, Anders, that line.  You want people to not fear mages, don't you?  Because mages are all harmless and innocent and wouldn't hurt a fly if it weren't for big nasty Templars?  So why that battle cry?)

But back on topic . . .   Frankly If someone can't see his relevance, they either haven't spent enough time talking to him, or the entire time was spent with their fingers in their ears going "LA LA LA EMO FINAL FANTASY ELF CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY ALSO HOW DARE HE THINK MAGIC IS BAD IT'S NOT LIKE IT EVER HURT HIM."  No, his story isn't directly tied up in the conflicts of the game, but it is involved, by simple nature.  He is a former slave to a free mage, in the only country where mages have the right to do as they please.  This is very relevant to a story that leads to a conflict over whether or not mages should be free.

All right I am going to chime in as well. For me Fenris doesn't work as well as a foil to Anders as Sebastian because of a few things:
1. It is too easy to claim that all the terrible things that have happened to Fenris is grounded in slavery and not magic. The problem with Tevinter is not that they are mages. It is that they think that people can be sold and bought - a rather nasty trait in a society that could easily have been that way even without magic.
2. Danerius is not every mage, and we don't see mages walking around branding elves with lyrium.
3. Tevinter is not Kirkwall. His 'if mages are free they will make themself magisters' is just not realistic. Even freed non-Tevinter mages have been drilled into their head how terrible Tevinter is, how terrible blood magic is and even freed they are lighthyears away from any kind of political position and will never get the political prowess the magisters in Tevinter has.

I think that Fenris would have worked better as a foil if he had not been from Tevinter, honestly, but as it is now Sebastian just points out Anders flaws better.

That said I love Fenris so much more than Sebastian, he is more fun to play with, his personality is less bland than Sebastian and his story arch is good (if a little predictable) and I certainly doesn't want to swap him out.     

[Arquen]

As a meanie head myself. I approve of blunt personality and say what they think personality.

I actually love characters that challenge the protagonist. Anti-hero is my absolute favorite type of character and Fenris fits nicely into that category. In fact I was reading a blurb on Heathcliff from Wuthering Heights and Lolled at the similarity to Fenris.

"in dress and manners a gentleman: that is, as much a gentleman as many a country squire: rather slovenly, perhaps, yet not looking amiss with his negligence, because he has an erect and handsome figure; and rather morose."

As I said.. I lolled.

[Arquen]

This will be hard to post from phone so ill just touch on it a bit.

I don't think Seb is a good foil for Anders at all. He has lived the most sheltered life imaginable. As a ponce prince then as a chantry brother. His views are colored by academics and chantry force fed propaganda. Likewise he is as irrational and flippant in his emotions as a teenage boy. Going from vengeance is good to thou shall not kill in one scene.

His chantry views offer less substance than Fenris' first hand experiences. Fenris' view is biased and jaded, but in Tevinter every free mage seeks to become more powerful to survive. Mages are slaves too in Tevinter. It isn't just about slavery or mages and slaves would be separate. It is about the powerful win the prize, take the spoils, shape the society. When backed into a corner mages have options others do not.

Fenris' hate is bred from Danarius but that isn't his point. "For every mage like you there are a dozen who are weak. Those are the ones I fear. That anyone should fear." As said he has seen and experienced exactly what a free mage society is capable of. Agree with him or not is personal choice and preference but his views are valid and his experiences provide insight into the exact world Anders wants to create. That being free mages governing themselves ends up being the strongest ones take power and end up suppressing others.

He isn't right but he isn't wrong. He just says things people don't want to hear.

[esper]

@Arquen.
There is no such thing as a perfect foil to a character, but personally Sebastian just did a better job for me, because he in one conversation of two did manage to point out Anders extremeness.
The problem is still that it is Tevinter. Fenris would have worked better if he had suffered under the hands of an apostate and not a magister. Even with mages free it is just not likely that they can create another Tevinter. Not with the way things work in the rest of Thedas right now.
Perhaps it is because I personally don't think anti-characters really works as good foil. Fenris is so much anti-Anders as Anders is anti-Fenris that they don't really work well as foils if you believe strongly that one of the sides is correct.
If you are middle ground on the whole mage-templar thing they might just work because they then manage to point out that both sides are extreme and has flaws, but if you, like me, believe in the principle of one of the sides Fenris just comes off as having a different opinion.
A character like Sebastian simply better showed Anders' flaws.

[Arquen]

A foil simply highlights contrast and pulls out fault in the other character. Fenris does this for Anders on multiple occasions where he directly conflicts with anders' view. "It isn't the mages fault.. even a little?" Or at the Gallows "Slaves are not prone to demons who posses them." Just because you don't believe him doesn't mean he isn't highlighting faults on Anders' part. That and he also serves a challenger to the protagonist (hawke). A foil can simply be the enemy of another character to highlight the opposite spectrum.

Sebastian points out bluntly that Anders is fanatical, but he doesn't challenge Anders ' ideals like Fenris does. More than that Fenris also exposes the fault in both their views by bouncing things off Anders. "Not all mages are like the ones in Tevinter.." Both arguments are flawed. Total mage freedom exists in the world to simply handwave it and say "that wont happen.." is ignoring history and making one hell of an assumption. Don't be naive.... that is Fenris' point.

[esper]

Yes, but good foils makes you believe in them - just a little. Fenris fails to do that for me, because again Tevinter is too exotic to be compared to any country under the white Divine. Tevinter simply have a long history of slavery which the other countries don't have. Children grow up in Tevinter learning that it is all right to own people so they have a completely different mindset than the rest of Thedas in that specific area. Fenris would have worked better for me as a foil if he had somehow been wounded by an apostate from a country under the White Divine.
That being said I don't see why Fenris must only exist as a foil to Anders. ( I know some say that it is his only hook, but...) Too me he is much more important relating to the qunari. Yeah I know he doesn't say much, but having at least one in my team who knew just a little about how the qunari thinks was reassuring. I greatly appriciated that. (And I enjoyed his character more than Sebastian anyway)

[ReiSilver]

Having carted Sebastian and Anders around for quite a while now I have to say Sebastian would be a very weak foil for Anders. And I'm someone who personally sides with Anders and thinks a mage revolution needed to happen.

Sebastians views are far too easily dismissed, being based on nothing but "The Chantry says:..."

Sebastian is also one of the few characters besides Carver and Merrill whose arguments have, at one point at least, made me stop and wonder at the sheer illogic and stupidity; take for example his comparison of mages being sentenced to life imprisonment for crime they might commit in future, having minuscule personal freedom with the threat of tranquillity ever over their heads, to himself being made a brother in the Chantry or Hawke having to move house
My thoughts once he said it were something along the lines of: What? Those are not alike in degrees of freedom at all. You have no idea what you're talking about do you???
Sebastian is good for arguing about the Chantry but when it comes to the capabilities of mages or anything concerning what it is to be oppressed he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Fenris, again, has personal experience, lived along side mages for as long as he can remember and being an elf and a former slave knows what it is to be oppressed. He is passionate in his views which are backed up by lived experience and has a lot of traits in common with Anders.
Just as Anders has experienced horrible things at the hands of Templars and the Circle, Fenris has experienced horrible things at the hands of mages. They have things they can relate to each other about if they can stop bickering long enough to acknowledge it.
Saying Fenris' experiences don't count because he came from Tevinter is like saying Anders views on the circle don't count because he had a particularly bad time of it after 7 escape attempts. Rather then say, a life-long apostate like Morrigan, who is about as far removed from the issue as Sebastian is, only no, she's more related to the issue then Sebastian being a mage herself.

[esper]

Yes, but Fenris has experienced horrible things at the hands of mages we don't meet. (Expect for two - who both belong to Fenris quest line). Of course Fenris experience count, but he has experience mages who are raised under a different relgion/society and mindset regarding other people. He would still have worked better if he had suffered at the hands of an apostate and not an magister.
I think that Sebastian worked stronger on me because I did a completely u-turn regarding the chantry in DA2. Somehow I went from being midly postive to neutral, to completely despise everything it stands for. So perhaps it chantry people just left me with a stronger impression in DA2.

[Arquen]

That really has nothing to do with Fenris being a foil then, but that the chantry dogma got old and you realized that there is more to the chantry than old ladies with good intentions.

I honestly cannot think why it is better for Fenris not to have been from Tevinter. I can't wrap my brain around how it is different. We don't meet the templars that abused Anders. We don't see how the other circles operate, but because Anders is operating in the ideals of Ferelden and Kirkwall it somehow makes him more valid?

How is someone coming from a different society not allowed to comment on situations and peoples and events that are VERY similar to what he is used to seeing in his own homeland? How he keeps saying "I've seen it before.. and it leads to..." is not valid because of culture? I can't buy that. I just don't agree at all. You can't dismiss his experiences because they come from an "exotic" culture. It isn't so exotic, it is the only example of a free mage society. Slavery is irrelevant at that point because there is no other society that actually portrays how mages would act in a free environment. To say that is not valid because it is not within the realm of the white Divine doesn't seem to diminish its effect at all.

Yet again, that has nothing to do with Fenris being a good foil. Fenris is a good foil simply because he can challenge Anders and he can offer viewpoints whereas Sebastian knows only academic, sheltered knowledge and his viewpoints are second hand knowledge from teachers and chantry dogma. I would say his opinions and views are worth LESS than Fenris' to a great degree because he has no first hand experience of suffering, oppression, or even slavery. All he knows about is vengeance, devotion, and duty. He has been sheltered his whole life, how can we take his views seriously?

Modifié par Arquen, 14 août 2011 - 01:35 .

[ReiSilver]

esper wrote...

Yes, but Fenris has experienced horrible things at the hands of mages we don't meet. (Expect for two - who both belong to Fenris quest line). Of course Fenris experience count, but he has experience mages who are raised under a different relgion/society and mindset regarding other people. He would still have worked better if he had suffered at the hands of an apostate and not an magister.
I think that Sebastian worked stronger on me because I did a completely u-turn regarding the chantry in DA2. Somehow I went from being midly postive to neutral, to completely despise everything it stands for. So perhaps it chantry people just left me with a stronger impression in DA2.

While I'd agree that mages in Tevinter are of a different culture, their attitudes are not isolated to Tevinters. Just as there are slavers outside of Tevinter and people willing to work with slavers when it suits them despite coming from a culture where slavery is looked down on, there are mages we meet in the game like Tarone, who rants about how mages should rule normal people because of their power.
She's not from Tevinter but bought into those ideas just as easily, just as Fenris would say most mages would if given the chance.
I think what happened to Fenris gains more weight because of the culture. It wasn't just one madman on the run who did something horrible to him personally, like the bloodmage who goes after Hawke's mother, if that were the case then Anders would have a point when he says "he let one bad experience colour his whole world view." when in fact it wasn't one bad experience it was many, systemic though his whole life and not just effecting him but others as well.

I'd also have to ask why you think Sebastian is the better voice for the control of mages since he obviously wasn't very convincing for you on the Chantry merits, and that's where most of his expertise lies If he can't make you think he has a point on that, then what hope does he have to bring up a valid point for oppressing a whole group of people?

[UrsulaCousland]

Gnas wrote...

*snips Doc Awesomeness!
I can hear Fenris' voice so clearly in this!

I can too. Doc, I like your stuff in general, but I *love* this. One of your best IMO.

ETA: I'll try that vanguard build you mentioned. I am wondering what that + Anders casting haste + duelist/assassin Hawke is going to look like. Unholy, I expect, though I wonder if Hawke will be just window dressing after that. 

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 14 août 2011 - 04:24 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Arquen wrote...

As a meanie head myself. I approve of blunt personality and say what they think personality.

I actually love characters that challenge the protagonist. Anti-hero is my absolute favorite type of character and Fenris fits nicely into that category. In fact I was reading a blurb on Heathcliff from Wuthering Heights and Lolled at the similarity to Fenris.

"in dress and manners a gentleman: that is, as much a gentleman as many a country squire: rather slovenly, perhaps, yet not looking amiss with his negligence, because he has an erect and handsome figure; and rather morose."

As I said.. I lolled.

This is what made me appreciate Morrigan. I have to agree with Alistair's assessment of her, but on the other hand, she deeply challenges my Wardens' worldviews (and I intend to play the Amell as more persuaded by her than any of my non-caster Wardens). Alistair + Wynne (my core group with warrior/rogue Warden) is sweet, but does feel a little 'yes-man'-y. I forsee an Amell/Shale/Zev core team swapping Morrigan or Oghren out as needed. That will be fun, and snarky! *evil cackle*

I love that quote, Arquen. I may have to go re-read that. I didn't like it when I had to read it, but the quickest way to make me dislike something in literature is to make me read it. 

That post made me think back to the Final Empire (Brian Sanderson). Although one of the main protagonists of the first book (Kelsier) could have inspired several aspects of Anders, I see aspects/similarities in Fenris as well: hatred of people in power, distinctive scars that make him instantly recognizable, enslaved and escaped (and haunted by it far more than he lets on), a possibly really nasty betrayal, and badass enough to take on huge groups of opponents alone using metal-based powers. (If you like/love both characters, I think you'll love Kel too. I know I do.) I don't know if there is any link between the two (and I don' think DG has mentioned specific inspirations for Fenris), but when I was reading the first book of the Final Empire, I remember going "...hey! Wait a minute!"

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 14 août 2011 - 04:51 .

[Carmen_Willow]

[quote]Arquen wrote...

To tell the truth I use a mod that allows Anders to cast group heal without panacea. That whole must be in a certain mode to use x skill peeves me. {snip}
quote]

Agree.  And I dislike the fact that some mages don't have any heal-spell at all.  Sorry, I just don't bellieve it!  Personal heal spell = survival.  I would think the first spell any mage is ever taught is a heal spell.  It doesn't make sense and it should change in DA:3 

[Dr. Doctor]

Prompt time:

Frolic

The Wounded Coast

Fenris: Why am I doing this?

Varric: Either because the Rivaini threatened to cut you off for yelling at her 'kitten' or Hawke threatened to ship you back to Minrathous is a barrel for treating Daisy like a pile of nug ****. The man's protective of his lady friend.

Anders: (rubbing his jaw) That's an understatement, after that incident with the Keeper I woke up feeling like an ogre threw me into a pile of rocks.

Merrill: (walking next to Hawke) It's a nice day for a walk isn't it Isabela?

Isabela: It is indeed kitten, don't you agree boys?

Fenris: Couldn't  we just apologi-

Isabela: (using her captain's voice)  I said don't you agree boys?

(Fenris and Anders in unison) Yes.

Isabela: That's more like it.