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The Official Fenris Discussion thread


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#43376
darkrose

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Arquen wrote...

He attempted to make his wheel and deal. Personally it was sickening just to listen to him and I couldn't wait to kill him. Then when Fenris picks it up in the end and just *RAGE* dead I indeed feel a fistpump or a bro-five coming on. I'm not sure what kind of improvements people are looking for *shrug* It was pretty climatic to me.


I wanted him to glow blue and rip Danarius' heart out. Maybe stomp on it a few times. But definitely some glowing. Because I happen to think that's incredibly sexy, and a gorgeous visual, and after seeing Fenris do it to random slavers, and Gascard, and Hadriana, I was expecting something spectacular when he killed the guy he's been talking about for the last six years.

Part of it, too, is that the fight itself was a big yawn for me. With a mage Hawke on Normal difficulty, it's ridiculously easy: throw out a Tempest and Firestorm, go get a drink, come back when Danarius finally drops his Barrier and pound him until he goes down. It's pretty much the same as every other three-wave mob battle, and by Act 3, my Hawke is just not impressed by that anymore. 

It's not that it was bad or anything. Just sort of, "Wait, that's it?"

#43377
Lucy Glitter

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I recently downloaded that glow mod that makes only Fen's lyrium glow in cutscenes, not his entire body. It's gorgeous. I also have that jacket retex for his romance outfit. I like his original outfit (save the lack of shoes) too much to turf it entirely.

p.s. SER POUNCE A LOT WALKING AROUND THE CLINIC? WHY. WHY. WHY, ART TEAM. HE BETTER GET IT BACK IN DA3. ART TEAM SUCKS.

#43378
Arquen

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I liked the throat slice, and he does glow. The jugular/near decapitation is unique to danarius. I guess that's why I like it. The battle is men, but the cutscene is epic to me.

Also, about the *cough*intimate*cough we had some discussion about it on pg 1719 and beyond. I pretty much agree that it is to ambiguous to directly assume sexual abuse. More like Danarius was a giant creeper. Fenris says to female Hawke that he doesn't remember anyone else. Im inclined to think if there was sex involved he had his memory wiped of it. Still unpleasant topic, but at least you can't say Fenris' slave life was privileged because he was a valued bodyguard *snort*

#43379
Lucy Glitter

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Arquen wrote...

More like Danarius was a giant creeper.


Agreed. 

Coupled with the weird, feminine gait and the cold killer voice - how could you not agree with this?

#43380
CulturalGeekGirl

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I also can differentiate between sexual abuse and being trained to do sex-related things. It's hard for me to put it into words, but I never really thought about Zevran "oh no, he's suffered sexual abuse" despite the fact that he grew up in a brothel and obviously learned a lot of things a child probably shouldn't know, and he later used those "skills" professionally. All those thing sound very bad, but it doesn't seem that this left him feeling particularly abused. Instead, it made him see sex as just another skill that can be useful to have.

I'm saying that Fenris may have been trained to do things Danarius found gratifying, but that might not have been actually sexual, or that he might not have perceived as sexual abuse. Heck, it might be that Danarius gets off from watching Fenris kill people.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 22 août 2011 - 06:02 .


#43381
Arquen

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Oh god I need brain bleach.....

Besides if that were true Danarius would have had a boner in his death scene. Watching Fen kill all those people.

Ughhhh why u do this to me CGG take it back... the images....

MAKER NOOOOOOOOOI

#43382
CulturalGeekGirl

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I totally did not mean to break your brain. I was just trying to reconcile the whole "very skilled" thing, the "spoiler blog" thing, and the "I don't remember being involved with anyone" thing.

I could elaborate more, but I fear it would do more damage than It would help.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 22 août 2011 - 06:13 .


#43383
Neminea

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*giggles* Poor Arquen *pets*

#43384
UrsulaCousland

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Arquen wrote...

Oh god I need brain bleach.....

Besides if that were true Danarius would have had a boner in his death scene. Watching Fen kill all those people.

Ughhhh why u do this to me CGG take it back... the images....

MAKER NOOOOOOOOOI


Brain bleach now, please. :sick:

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 22 août 2011 - 06:21 .


#43385
Neminea

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UrsulaCousland wrote...

Arquen wrote...

Oh god I need brain bleach.....

Besides if that were true Danarius would have had a boner in his death scene. Watching Fen kill all those people.

Ughhhh why u do this to me CGG take it back... the images....

MAKER NOOOOOOOOOI


Brain bleach now, please. :sick:




I could try and make you tranquel? *gets the scissors*

#43386
CulturalGeekGirl

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I don't understand why the reaction to my silly idea is so much worse than the reaction to the idea that he was actually abused in a conventional way! Aaaaaaaaaaaah!

Fenris thread, you confound me.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 22 août 2011 - 06:33 .


#43387
ReiSilver

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You know it's times like this I remember Fenris saying "I propped up the furniture, if he felt so inclined" and how I wished I didn't know people being furniture is a fetish for some people, now.... you all know it.
*passes the brain bleach*
Yeah... concerning *cough*intimate*cough* and how little we know about Danarius apart from him being a sadistic a**hole... I don't put anything past him and had my suspicions before the Word of Gaider.

so uhhh... to get away from that subject.
have a stupid doodle I did last night:

Posted Image

and how about a shirtless Fenris doodle on my tumblr

#43388
Lucy Glitter

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*sobs*

#43389
Ineffable Igor

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Oh, poor Fenris.:crying:

WE MUST HEAL HIM WITH THE POWER OF HAWKE LOVIN'.<3

And also wine.

#43390
Sealy

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CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I don't understand why the reaction to my silly idea is so much worse than the reaction to the idea that he was actually abused in a conventional way! Aaaaaaaaaaaah!

Fenris thread, you confound me.


Posted ImageIt is really weird but the thought of Fenris being forced to do things and generally "No, don't wanna, please someone save me. I just wanted to be your body guard" makes my head hurt a bit less then "Okay Danny, part the robes... time to get down to buisness. I have been trained to give amazing _____" << Fill in blank. But, I may be twisted so...

I have never been on team "Danarius needs depth" or anything but you know what Danarius does need, looks. I can't imagine someone who had access to demons and powerful blood magic was totes okay with becomeing mottled old guy with dislocated hips. I am a little bored with evil= Maker, avert the eyes! Even sister petrice had room for some touch ups. Of couse that could be my poor damaged brain trying to make the evil touching not quite so gag worthy in my headspace. honestly I can't even look at the creeper anymore, it's too much for my poor visual self to take.Posted Image

#43391
CulturalGeekGirl

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You people are going all kinds of crazy places with this. I was thinking more in terms of something like foot massages. (Ob pulp fiction scene here, audio extremely NSFW, because it's Pulp Fiction.)

To explain further while trying not to create any brain-bleach-requiring images, I've been reading Savage Love, the Stranger's crazy sex advice column for years. The human mind is a strange and mysterious thing, and the huge variety of completely non-sexual-seeming things that someone can have an interest in is almost limitless. I could give you some hilarious examples that I find completely harmless and wacky, but I'm worried I'll inadvertently horrify you again, so I will refrain.

#43392
mcilhany

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I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.  There seem to be some issues regarding discrepancies in the character Fenris.  Where else are players supposed to express their concerns?  If the creator of Fenris is present, or anyone involved in the development of these characters, people expressing their issues here need to be taken seriously.  The views on this thread are all over the place so I'm not even sure I'm in the right place.  I've been sooo extremely dedicated to everything regarding DA up until now.  I am becoming increasingly upset with the romance elements.  Too many inconsistencies.  If these aren't done better it's best just not to have them.  The romances are why I'd pick this game over another.  And believe, me, I've been very devoted, have been playing religiously for almost a year and a half, but I am disappointed with these forums to the point where I feel like I want to quit DA for good.

I have invested in Fenris.  What's being said about him and written about him are often just plain wrong.  I don't know how this is acceptable in any capacity.  Fenris does like being touched.  If he doesn't like being touched by you than maybe you're the wrong sex, or maybe he just doesn't like YOU.  These characters are for the players.  They respond differently to each one, that is becoming more and more clear.  My Fenris loves me, and has loved me since the night we spent together.  He also likes Kirkwall;  he's eludedto this many a time in both the second and third acts. Why in the "Fenris past Three Years" codex it say he's talked many a time of leaving Kirkwall and Hawke, even though he clearly loves her, and eludes as such in conversation with Anders, Varric, and Merril, talks romatically to her even after he "breaks up" with her, wears a romantic symbol to express his love for her even though he doesn't officially commit to her until later (as if that kind of thing is lost on any woman with real life experience with men)  you need to give him time to commit, but he does love you and he shows it all through the second act as long as you don't switch to Anders. My Mariana Hawke is a one man woman and won't look at Sebastian or Anders despite any temptation to do so, and is the most benign mage possible except for perhaps her sister, who, yes, passed away unfortunately in the first act.  She's one hundred percent friendly with Fenris, achieved easily in the First Act, devoted to him and has not looked back.  She's taught him to read and given him the best adornements in the game and custom weapon.  Fenris adores her, says as much, and likes Kirkwall and his house (He'll say as much to Aveline in numerous conversation exchanges).

Who writes these codeces?  The one on Fenris is wrong from each case scenario I can imagine including if anyone's Hawke hates him because I can't see why in such an event Fenris would stay with such a Hawke.  His debt toward "the Champion"  is long paid- I don't know why he'd stick around past the first act if Hawke hated him so,  Danarius would probably be better in such a case.  I'm really quite upset about this.  It's bad writing, and there is no excuse for that with a company like EA.

The voice actor, in response to some questions I've seen posted without the best answers to them is Gideon Emery of both South Africa and England.  He's soooo good.  I love all of the voice actors in the DA's and their expansions.  The accent I believe is mainly English, for Fenris.  It's sultry and unique; a little nasal:  and I like it... I like it a lot!  My issues with the game are NOT with the voice actors or the artists.  My issues are with the writing.

I'm not unreasonable.  I've let soooooo many discrepancies and inconsistencies in the story/romances go already- and I wasn't going to complain.  People want to feel inspired by these games, not be left negatively hanging, without a lot of hope, in what they are investing in.  Might I suggest actually giving the USERs a bit of freedom if it can't be done right from your end?  Heaven (or Maker, rather) forbid we could write some of our own Codexes/Codeces, I admit I don't know the plural to this word I appologize.  Revolutionary to think you could possibly relinquish a little control to your devoted followers, in the interest of continued success.  If not that than just don't write codeces which are not set in stone.  I don't want my official log book for my character filled with lies and ambiguety regarding things that matter to her the most.

Thanks for giving me an ear... Derel, GreyWarden and mage: "Hero of Ferelden", "Warden Commander"
and specifically:                       Mariana Hawke, Champion and Viscount of Kirkwall, mage and first child of Malcolm
                                                 and Leandra, and ready to give up magic for good if Fenris asks her to.

#43393
ReiSilver

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@mcilhany ok... so what you're saying is you're upset and/or confused as to why the codex on the three year gap between act 2 and 3 would say that Fenris has talked about leaving kirkwall when, he likes living in kirkwall and is in love with Hawke.

The simple answer to this is; Fenris is still a hunted man. He's been on the run, moving from place to place ever since he left Danarius. I think one of the points that I liked in Fenris' act 2 quests is when he says "I was a fool to think I was free."
It looked to me like in the conversations with him before the ambush Fenris was getting comfortable, he felt like he'd found a place he could stay and people he liked. Then Hadriana shows up and it's like a bucket of cold water; until Danarius is dead he'll never be safe and staying in one place only makes him easier to find.
As far as the romance goes Fenris can't pull himself together/allow himself to be with Hawke until he has sorted out his issues with his past and Danarius is dead. Until that happens he's trying to push him/her away; "I thought it better that you hated me." Remember that Fenris usual way to cope with things he can't handle is to run away, it's only once he becomes tired of running, or feels he can't escape that he'll stand and confront the issue.

But in the end while he may think about leaving, or talk about leaving, he doesn't. His love/friendship/respect for Hawke and his friendship with others like Varric, Isabela and Donnic are likely big contributors to this.

#43394
mcilhany

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ReiSilver,

Thank you for your concern. I meant for the post mainly to be for the writers. Fenris has never wanted to leave Kirkwall. I am talking about a discrepancy in the actual story. He has in fact never wanted to leave. He wants to stay. If you can rationalize that codex entry then that is up to you. Every indication Fenris has given is that he wants to stay with Hawke and company. He's never talked about leaving. As to what he's thinking that is anyones guess. The codex is just plain wrong. If you're not bothered by it that's fine. But I am. Besides, he's also implied he doesn't know where to go or how to "be free." But on that note, does anyone? Also the whole "insert race/color/creed" here all look alike line has got to be gone for good. I don't think my ears can take that line anymore, like nails on a chalkboard. Again, bad writing and unacceptable for this quality of production.

***I do like most of the writing, it's just this is something thats really really important to me and, IT COULD BE SO EASILY FIXED. (i'm just using caps so it will stand out if any writer does happen to see this).

I really like your Avatar; it's like Fenris with his hair grown out.  I have been thinking of doing a digital image myself of Fenris with his hair growing out.  Not that i don't like it shorter...  its sooo cute.  And you even have that kind of smirk that Fenris has.  I love the picture of him on the wiki.  He has a killer grin...killer looks period.  And I like the Black Coffee picture.  Really cute.

Modifié par mcilhany, 25 août 2011 - 04:00 .


#43395
ReiSilver

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mcilhany wrote...

ReiSilver,

Thank you for your concern. The post isn't for you though. It's for the writers. Fenris has never wanted to leave Kirkwall. I am talking about a discrepancy in the actual story. He has in fact never wanted to leave. He wants to stay. If you can rationalize that codex entry then that is up to you. Every indication Fenris has given is that he wants to stay with Hawke and company. He's never talked about leaving. As to what he's thinking that is anyones guess. The codex is just plain wrong. If you're not bothered by it that's fine. But I am. Besides, he's also implied he doesn't know where to go or how to "be free." But on that note, does anyone? Also the whole "insert race/color/creed" here all look alike line has got to be gone for good. I don't think my ears can take that line anymore, like nails on a chalkboard. Again, bad writing and unacceptable for this quality of production.


If you're only looking for imput from the writers then Fenris' fan-forum, or anywhere on the BSN, probably isn't going to be the right place to go. The devs have been known to pop in occasionally but there are no garrantees that they'll a) look at the thread or B) feel like answering.
Most people on the fan forums love analysing characters, deciphering their motives and personality through what we see in the game and supplimental material like the short stories.

I'm rather baffled that you can insist that you know for a fact the Fenris does not, ever, for any length of time over the coarse of 6 years, ever entertain the thought of leaving Kirkwal and then go on to say that What he's thinking is anyones guess, but the codex is wrong. :?

I've pointed out how talking about leaving would not be out of character for Fenris, all I can get from your earlier post is you think that since Fenris is in love with Hawke he would never leave. Once again, he doesn't actually leave, he talks about it, this could be because he is thinking about the option because he is hunted or because he's trying to distance himself from Hawke/push Hawke away, before they get-back-together in Act 3.

But if you need Word of God on the issue and no amount of character analysis will do... I dunno try and hunt down David Gaider I suppose.

#43396
Heidenreich

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mcilhany wrote...

ReiSilver,

Thank you for your concern. The post isn't for you though. It's for the writers. Fenris has never wanted to leave Kirkwall. I am talking about a discrepancy in the actual story. He has in fact never wanted to leave. He wants to stay. If you can rationalize that codex entry then that is up to you. Every indication Fenris has given is that he wants to stay with Hawke and company. He's never talked about leaving. As to what he's thinking that is anyones guess. The codex is just plain wrong. If you're not bothered by it that's fine. But I am. Besides, he's also implied he doesn't know where to go or how to "be free." But on that note, does anyone? Also the whole "insert race/color/creed" here all look alike line has got to be gone for good. I don't think my ears can take that line anymore, like nails on a chalkboard. Again, bad writing and unacceptable for this quality of production.


Actually the writing in this game is actually one of the parts that's most deffinately not bad. Look at it this way. If it's in a codex, its fact. If he spoke about leaving, then he was truly contemplating it. There's no discrepency in the writing for someone to -think seriously- about something, and then later decide against it. The Codex's are written by the writers, and while some change depending upon what choices you make, most are set in stone. They are factual to the world we're allowed to romp and play within. Just like the Codex says that the Templars are the real power in Kirkwall, and that Hawke's parents met in Kirkwall. These things are "set in stone", canon, for the world. You can't just throw them out because you dislike where they take your story.

As to Fenris himself... We know that Fenris has wanderlust/a fear of comitment. Staying in one place, untill we kill Denarius, is a, and let me bold and underline this, a bad idea. He knows this very well, because when ever he stops somewhere, he gets attacked. Its dangerous for him, and dangerous for anyone he might get close to. He was on he run for three years. The only difference is, this time he got saved by Hawke and co. Which is something he's having trouble reconciling in his head, because he's a slave, or Ex-slave, and deserves no help.

Hawke and Co are his friends, but he's never had friends before and is litterally lost for what to do with them. He doesn't know how to have friends, or how to even accept compliments. So, it is not outside his character to be in a constant state of movement, even if its just in words. In fact, he feels very much like someone who would pace a lot. Someone who walks back and forth in front of that fireplace because he needs to be moving, acting, doing. Even when there's nothing to do.

In fact he even goes so far as to ask Hawke on several different occasions what someone does to put down roots. It takes him almost 7 years in fact, to get over his feeling of being hunted, and his feelings that he's endangering these people that he can't seem to not care about. And then, its only after we've helped him kill Denarius and learn of his past(or let him kill his sister) that he's even comfortable enough to consider staying on full time. I wouldn't put it past him to be in a constant state of "one foot out the door" until that point, even. Even if he never acts upon it.

It hardly matters that he loves or doesn't love Hawke. To Fenris, just being near her/him is putting them in mortal danger. If anything a romanced Fenris would be more inclined to want to run away, for fear that caring about Hawke will bring the wrath of the Magisters down upon his/her head. That's actually a big reason why he runs away after the romance scene. Sure, memories.. but also the realization that being that close to someone puts them in as much, if not more danger.

"I thought it better that you hated me" is a telling line. He cares, but is scared. Scared because he cares, and scared because he doesn't know what to do with it now that he knows he cares. Denarius is a sick son of a ****, and Fenris is smart enough to get that the easiest way for people to comply to something they're against is to use their loved ones against them. He spends three years trying to convince himself that its better for everyone if he just leaves Hawke alone. It takes Hawke killing Denarius before he's willing to even breech the subject again.



and.. I think I got lost in all my early-morning-before-coffee rambling. Oh, wait, yesssss.. writing descrepencies with Fenris. There aren't any. Fill in the blanks, they're clearly written between the sentences and the tone-of-voce. This is why they got Gidieon Emery to do the voice, because he's GREAT at leaving openings for interpretation.

#43397
mcilhany

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ReiSilver,

Thanks, but I'm not needing a written response from any developer. I would rather they not waste time responding in writing, but actually address these issues in a more pragmatic fashion. I. E. Don't do it again. It's just... Fenris DOES NOT EVER say he wants to leave and he does not even imply it. It's as if a different person wrote the codex. A couple of glib paragraphs. It's unacceptable, and I want it gone. This does not mean I expect it to go. But next time, this will be a problem. I've let so many things go already. The Avatar pictured here is Derel, and supposedly she is in a romance with Zevran. Zevran would shake a finger and forbid her from even looking at Alistair during their time together in Ferelden. And lo and behold he appears to cheat on her with Isabela in DA 2. But I let that go.  Well, ok, so Zevran is a rolling stone. But I'm going back to break up with him now. Derel has always had her heart set on Loghain anyway. Where there is a will there is a way, at least , until all hope gets broken.

I, I just,... see,... it doesn't say on the codex what he's thinking.  It says what Fenris says and does though and it doesn't make any sense.  It's like, I don't know, a   snake having feet or, an elemental that can get knocked unconscious, or, or... a skeleton that is capable of being scared or,... ok those are funny examples, glitches that I actually like.  And... it's like , Smouldering and Being Cold at the same time,...those don't go together.  Ok you guys you should all know where I got that.

Modifié par mcilhany, 25 août 2011 - 03:46 .


#43398
Heidenreich

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mcilhany wrote...

ReiSilver,

I'm not needing your input. Nor am I needing a written response from any developer. I would rather they not waste time responding in writing, but actually address these issues in a more pragmatic fashion. I. E. Don't do it again. Fenris DOES NOT EVER say he wants to leave and he does not even imply it. It's as if a different person wrote the codex. A couple of glib paragraphs. It's unacceptable, and I want it gone. This does not mean I expect it to go. But next time, this will be a problem. I've let so many things go already. The Avatar pictured here is Derel, and supposedly she is in a romance with Zevran. Zevran would shake a finger and forbid her from even looking at Alistair during their time together in Ferelden. And lo and behold he appears to cheat on her with Isabela in DA 2. But I let that go. I'm thinking you'd respond with "well, you didn't actually see them have sex, did you?," or something like that. I'm sorry, but that isn't very credible. Well, ok, so Zevran is a rolling stone. But I'm going back to break up with him now. Derel has always had her heart set on Loghain anyway. Don't bother telling me he's not a romance option. Where there is a will there is a way, at least , until all hope gets broken.


Zevran in DA2 is bugged due to improper flags being set/not. Its a DA:O and DA:O/A import bug, broken in the old game and unfixable. It has nothing to do with the writing. In fact there's a fan mod for the pc that sort of fixes it, giving the codex for the romanced-but-dead warden/zevran and a "uh no thank you" to hawke and isabela if they proposition him.

That being said, he does not say he wants to leave, but he -does- repletedly drop hints that he's conflicted in his staying, that he doesn't find it the right idea, that he has no idea what to do if he does stay, and then, only after you've killed Denarius does he make a real, solid decision about staying. If you can't gleen this from the storyline presented to you and the -canon, set in stone codex- then.. its not the writing thats at fault.

Modifié par Heidenreich, 22 août 2011 - 01:11 .


#43399
mcilhany

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Dear HeidenReich,

You're free to think what you want of course. I am just putting my expressed opinion up. I didn't say all the writing is bad. What, can I not express what ISSS bad about the writing? It's not a question of you being wrong or me being wrong. I'm not telling any of you what to do, but I've given this a lot of thought, and I personally can't make heads or tails of it.

Modifié par mcilhany, 31 août 2011 - 01:38 .


#43400
Heidenreich

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mcilhany wrote...

Heidenreich

this is not inteded for you. Don't bother replying too me. or quoting me. You're free to think what you want. I am putting my expressed opinion up. I didn't say all the writing is bad. What, can I not express what ISSS bad about the writing? It's not a question of being right or wrong. I'm not telling any of you what to do, but I've given this a lot of thought. Stop addressing me , people. I'm not talking to you. Leave me alone.


Wait so.. because my opinion differs from yours, I'm no longer allowed to have it nor respond in kind to your open post in an open thread asking for an opinion? I must "leave you alone" and "not quote or reply to you" because you dislike my answers?

Sorry sweetie, that's not how open forums work. If you want a discussion with Rei only, I sugest you take it to PM's. Otherwise, prepare to have your opinion disputed.


You clearly stated that you believe that the writing is bad because the codex says he thinks about leaving, because he never addresses Hawke about it in specifics.

I'm politely telling you that, in fact, that's not how it works. The Codex's are written by the writers. Everything text-and-voiced-over goes through Daivd Gaider for Aproval before making it into the game. That's what "Lead Writers" are for.

The Codex's are CANON, and the vast majority of them are static. The only time they change is when they're character-and-choice related. The Divine in Orlais is always female, Kirkwall was always a former slavers capitol, The 5th blight was in Ferelden.

Thus, if the Codex says Fenris was thinking about running away, then he was thinking about running away.

Modifié par Heidenreich, 22 août 2011 - 01:18 .