55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Sialater]

Damn. Last I looked, all I had was "Justice."  This game is soooo damned bugged.

ToP

By Aroihkin

Modifié par Sialater, 29 août 2011 - 06:23 .

[Ineffable Igor]

Thank you for the input!  I <3 input.

Given some of the points that have been raised I think ultimately what it comes down to wouldn't be Hawke's status as a bloodmage, but how Hawke is played and chooses to use his/her powers.  In the senario I thought up for my bloodmage Hawke, I figured she learned it from a book (like the manuals you can buy in Awakening to unlock the specialization) and later from Malcolm (this was before Legacy, which I STILL haven't played, grr, so I'm certain I will have to edit this scenario once I find out exactly what happens), who taught her to use it responsibly.  I imagined sort of a Dexter-esque, "Channel this horrible aspect of yourself into something productive" mentor situation.  The way I played it, Hawke was extremey anti-demon and considered herself above temptation and completely in control of herself and her magic.  She used blood magic left and right, but never to harm those she cared about (never used Sacrifice that whole playthrough).  She used it to have an edge when defending herself and her family.

With that sort of situation, I'm certain Fenris would be extremely distrustful for a very long time, but I could see him coming around to the idea in sort of an "If it's you, it's okay" way.  I don't think he hates Merrill because she uses blood magic (though it does cause him to pre-judge her in a very negative way), he hates her because she is foolish and irresponsible about it, which is exactly what he would expect from a bloodmage, either that or power-hungry sadism/desperation.  If he met a Hawke who was a bloodmage but ended up being none of those things, he might be able to see past his prejudices.  It would take a lot of convincing and a lot of time for him to observe how Hawke handles blood magic, but I think he coud reach a similar conclusion to the one he eventually made about Hawke being a mage: he/she can handle it.

I do think that it would cause a rift between them though, since even if Fenris trusted Hawke he would always be more paranoid about a bloodmage Hawke than just a mage Hawke.  Story-telling wise, I think any Fenris/bloodmage pairing has some incredibly cool love story potential, what with the interpersonal conflict that would have to be dealt with.  Depending on who the bloodmage is, it could go in any number of directions.  I'm a little surprised it hasn't been used more often in fan fiction, but I suppose that probably has to do with most people just not liking bloodmages and thus not wanting to write or play them. 

[Arquen]

I suppose that is true. That and the fact that blood magic is still kind of one of those debated topics whereas people aren't quite sure if you can learn it strictly from books or must have a demon or what.

The only ones I have read that work out are when Hawke is actually reserved about his/her use of bloodmagic, and didn't learn it from a demon. Since it is so debated I'm sure people just either don't want to go there or feel like it is venturing to much into OOC category in that Fenris will have to back off on his ideals somewhat and that is difficult to write. The anger and rage and him freaking out about it isn't so difficult. The putting it all back together and forming some kind of coherent relationship out of it is the hard part, LOL.

Then again, maybe that is just me *shifty eyes* I've had a fic start/prologue thing sitting in my documents forever with my bloodmage Hawke and Fenris. I don't like it enough to turn it into anything and my brain starts imploding when I begin to type the dialogue and scenes where they come to some kind of understanding.

[phaonica]

Arquen wrote...

I suppose that is true. That and the fact that blood magic is still kind of one of those debated topics whereas people aren't quite sure if you can learn it strictly from books or must have a demon or what.

The only ones I have read that work out are when Hawke is actually reserved about his/her use of bloodmagic, and didn't learn it from a demon.

I think that if Hawke was the type of blood mage who advocated the rule of mages or was the type to have aspirations of becoming like a magister, that that's someone I wouldn't think Fenris would be willing to have a relationship with. Barring that, though, I think Fenris could eventually come to agree that neither regular magic nor blood magic corrupts inherently.

[tankgirly]

Awesome vid reposted

I love how Fenris was put together in this vid.

[Sialater]

That is a wonderful vid.

[tankgirly]

Sialater wrote...

That is a wonderful vid.

Indeed!

[Madame Rose Crimsynn]

Ineffable Igor wrote...

Thank you for the input!  I <3 input.

Given some of the points that have been raised I think ultimately what it comes down to wouldn't be Hawke's status as a bloodmage, but how Hawke is played and chooses to use his/her powers.  In the senario I thought up for my bloodmage Hawke, I figured she learned it from a book (like the manuals you can buy in Awakening to unlock the specialization) and later from Malcolm (this was before Legacy, which I STILL haven't played, grr, so I'm certain I will have to edit this scenario once I find out exactly what happens), who taught her to use it responsibly.  I imagined sort of a Dexter-esque, "Channel this horrible aspect of yourself into something productive" mentor situation.  The way I played it, Hawke was extremey anti-demon and considered herself above temptation and completely in control of herself and her magic.  She used blood magic left and right, but never to harm those she cared about (never used Sacrifice that whole playthrough).  She used it to have an edge when defending herself and her family.

With that sort of situation, I'm certain Fenris would be extremely distrustful for a very long time, but I could see him coming around to the idea in sort of an "If it's you, it's okay" way.  I don't think he hates Merrill because she uses blood magic (though it does cause him to pre-judge her in a very negative way), he hates her because she is foolish and irresponsible about it, which is exactly what he would expect from a bloodmage, either that or power-hungry sadism/desperation.  If he met a Hawke who was a bloodmage but ended up being none of those things, he might be able to see past his prejudices.  It would take a lot of convincing and a lot of time for him to observe how Hawke handles blood magic, but I think he coud reach a similar conclusion to the one he eventually made about Hawke being a mage: he/she can handle it.

I do think that it would cause a rift between them though, since even if Fenris trusted Hawke he would always be more paranoid about a bloodmage Hawke than just a mage Hawke.  Story-telling wise, I think any Fenris/bloodmage pairing has some incredibly cool love story potential, what with the interpersonal conflict that would have to be dealt with.  Depending on who the bloodmage is, it could go in any number of directions.  I'm a little surprised it hasn't been used more often in fan fiction, but I suppose that probably has to do with most people just not liking bloodmages and thus not wanting to write or play them. 

Bloodmage Hawke + Fenris is an interesting equation. I agree that Hawke probably would have learned from a book, and maybe some from Malcolm in case of emergency.

When I did my blood mages, I did them differently. My very first one, Nerezza (who I didn't get far with-- she was meant to romance Anders and after his first creeper lines, I kinda deleted her saves) was the classic sociopathic pure evil blood mage (with her, I could see the exception that she DID learn from a demon).  Fenris and her HATED each other (I never counted it as rivalry-- there was no way in hell that Fenris would ever respect her and I saw Nerezza considering Fenris a joke).

My second, who I played the last time I played through DA2, was different. She was a snarker who played the healer role, backing it with blood magic when she was in desperate need (ex. low on mana and people are about to die). I went through on the friend side with her, oddly enough, but in my head I role-played her as someone who supported the idea of the Circle and backed the Templars, but she saw the flaws in how it was executed and wanted to loosen up some of the rules and regulations on the mages (if I actually played her as described, she would have been perma-stuck in neutral). She was kind of the girl trying to prove, "We're honestly not all that bad-- some of us can control our magic and how we use it. We won't turn you all into toads!" without saying it out loud.

Of course, the psychopathic blood mages all around REALLY don't help her case. 

[phaonica]

Madame Rose Crimsynn wrote...
She was kind of the girl trying to prove, "We're honestly not all that bad-- some of us can control our magic and how we use it. We won't turn you all into toads!" without saying it out loud.

My bloodmage that rivalmanced Fenris was similar. She picked up blood magic after having told Anders that since he couldn't help being connected to Justice that he should make of himself an example of abominations with control. My character decided to pick up blood magic to make of herself an example that not all blood mages are motivated by desperation or depravity. She learned blood magic from Merrill (why not?).

[Harle Cerulean]

Haha, I play Fenris in an RP, so I've sat down and thought a lot about his reactions, thoughts, and motivations, and the ability of a blood mage Hawke to romance him was one of the things that gave me the most pause when trying to work out why he would do various things. (Thankfully, the Hawke I play off of is not one! Much easier.)

After all that thought, I can only really see a relationship between a blood mage Hawke and Fenris working in one of two ways.
First option, Hawke sees his/her blood magic as necessary but dangerous (or a mistake that can't be changed and dangerous) and willingly makes Fenris his/her 'guardian', to make sure he/she doesn't go too far. I've seen a fic wherein a blood mage Hawke even went so far as to give Fenris a phylactery of his blood. This is kind of unhealthy for Hawke (but then, so is blood magic, imo), though less so if he/she trusts Fenris to only utilize the power over him/her that he's been given if necessary. More if he/she isn't certain Fenris isn't just looking for an excuse to off him/her. It's also a bit unhealthy for Fenris, because he's being put into a position where he may have to kill the person he loves, and having to keep watch on them and constantly scrutinize them for corruption. Naturally, that's bound to be difficult on them both.
Second option, Hawke basically taking over and filling the master-shaped hole in Fenris' instincts that no longer belongs to Danarius, and so Fenris doesn't really question Hawke's blood magic, because he doesn't question Hawke. This is of course SERIOUSLY unhealthy for Fenris, since rather than helping him, it's taking advantage of the issues he's been left with from his years of slavery and, effectively, re-enslaving him. A Hawke who does this would probably be a Hawke who exemplified the reasons blood magic is considered bad and mages are kept imprisoned and heavily watched.

. . . and personally, I never play a blood mage (not in DA2 or DAO) because I'm of the opinion that even if it is not evil in and of itself (a debate that really only the writers can settle at this point), it remains too dangerous and potentially abusable to be a legal practice, and my characters tend to agree with me. Some of my friends who played DAO were always telling me I was stupid for not going blood magic since it's useful, and just could not understand why I refused to. XD

[devilspep]

I was a mage who was as pro-mage as one can be. He hated all my decisions and his rivalry was maxed out. I made him kill his sister and a few others with his "death grip." I was totally expecting him to turn on me at the end but it seems he came to revere my character and his respect for me was unwavering.

While he seemed like a whiny little elf at first and I knew immediately after hearing his backstory and having him in my party that I was gonna make life difficult for him, I came to appreciate him and he became one of my favorite characters. Him and Aveline were my mage character's personal bodyguards.

[UrsulaCousland]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

(snip)

. . . and personally, I never play a blood mage (not in DA2 or DAO) because I'm of the opinion that even if it is not evil in and of itself (a debate that really only the writers can settle at this point), it remains too dangerous and potentially abusable to be a legal practice, and my characters tend to agree with me. Some of my friends who played DAO were always telling me I was stupid for not going blood magic since it's useful, and just could not understand why I refused to. XD

Haha, no blood mages in my house either. Hubby is a power gamer and flat out refuses to play blood mages due to the same reasons. I won't go near it, either. We're too heroic, sometimes.

[SurrealSadi]

UrsulaCousland wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

(snip)

. . . and personally, I never play a blood mage (not in DA2 or DAO) because I'm of the opinion that even if it is not evil in and of itself (a debate that really only the writers can settle at this point), it remains too dangerous and potentially abusable to be a legal practice, and my characters tend to agree with me. Some of my friends who played DAO were always telling me I was stupid for not going blood magic since it's useful, and just could not understand why I refused to. XD

Haha, no blood mages in my house either. Hubby is a power gamer and flat out refuses to play blood mages due to the same reasons. I won't go near it, either. We're too heroic, sometimes.

I refuse to play blood mages. Look at what blood mages did to the Circle in Fereldan. Look at what they did to the World in general. (Still kinda irked that the Chantry was right about the Darkspawn) Look at what they did in KIRKWALL-thinning the Veil to the point where most mages raised in that city are pretty much screwed when it comes to demons and blood magic...

[devSin]

Also no blood mages here. I do make Morrigan take the specialization (it seems the most appropriate for her character), but it never gets used.

My Hawke (and my Warden) will never take it.

Modifié par devSin, 30 août 2011 - 05:56 .

[phaonica]

This was my first try at playing a blood mage. Mostly, I wanted to see if blood mage was a fun spec or not, so I worked it into one of my characters. I played another mage that was adamantly against using blood magic because he refused to become exactly what the templars accuse mages of being.

[Friera]

IS there reslly a difference when you romance Fenris as a blood mage or just a mage?

[Arquen]

Yeah as far as dialogue progression and actual in-game story there is nothing different between a bloodmage or any other mage.

Still, it's fun for potential fodder for fics and story.

As much as I personally detest bloodmages in general and agree with Fenris on a lot of points about mages I did play one in both DA:O and DA2. I did it FOR SCIENCE as they say. I wanted to see the specialization in action and how it worked.

I got some kind of sick pleasure watching my Hawke impale herself with her staff and unleashing awesome powers ofawesome, but it was purely from a gameplay mechanic viewpoint. She was the kind of character you loved to hate, and it worked. Though I don't think I would have gotten through that playthrough without the Fenris rivalmance, LOL. She was a horrible excuse for a human being. Regretted nothing and cared about nothing until she realized after her entire family was killed and everyone hated her that pushing people away and being utterly alone wasn't really any way to live.

Also, was reading some of the reveals at PAX... Tevinter? Hmmm, yes please! Customized companion armor?... ooOoOoO. Apparently Kirkwall is about the size of Rhode Island and pathetically small when compared to other places like Ferelden, Orlais, and Tevinter.

I think I have a cold... haven't been feeling well so if my posts come across as rambly and strange I blame the cold medicine!

Modifié par Arquen, 30 août 2011 - 09:40 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Arquen wrote...

*snip*

Also, was reading some of the reveals at PAX... Tevinter? Hmmm, yes please! Customized companion armor?... ooOoOoO.

OhpleaseOhpleaseOhpleaseOhPlease...

I know a lot of what they said at the "Future of DA" panel was mostly buzz-building, but it's potentially some VERY interesting buzz...! I know Fenris said it would be suicidal to try to get very close to Minrathos (and, I think, something similar about Seheron) while Danarius was alive, but I wonder just how close his hunt for Varania took him. (Yes, I have a fic chapter simmering for that one, but I have a lot of other head-canon stuff to commit to pixels/word docs first.  )

One thing at a time, Ursula, one thing at a time. (Maker help me, I wrote a prologue for a F!Shep/Garrus fic a few days ago...*facepalm self*)

ETA: And I start uni again in a week *headdesk* . That'll slow the writing down, though I still hope to do it for stress relief and don't plan to stop.

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 30 août 2011 - 04:10 .

[berelinde]

Quick question regarding Fenris dialogue.

In the Blackpowder Promise quest, how does Fenris react to meeting Javaris Tintop? He must know that attempting to hoodwink the Arishok is not the sanest idea ever hatched. I'm working it into a fanfic and I wanted to get the tone right. Where better to ask?

I usually make a video diary of my PT with the party I plan to use for that segment, but for this section, I forgot what I was planning to do and brought the wrong people along for that part of the quest. I do have Fenris in the conclusion part, though, where you go to meet the Arishok.

Edit: Thanks for your reply in the other thread, DevSin. I do appreciate it, but if it's more than just a Fenris-phrased "that's dumb," I'd rather know about it before I publish the chapter.

Modifié par berelinde, 30 août 2011 - 04:52 .

[UrsulaCousland]

berelinde wrote...

Quick question regarding Fenris dialogue.

In the Blackpowder Promise quest, how does Fenris react to meeting Javaris Tintop? He must know that attempting to hoodwink the Arishok is not the sanest idea ever hatched. I'm working it into a fanfic and I wanted to get the tone right. Where better to ask?

I usually make a video diary of my PT with the party I plan to use for that segment, but for this section, I forgot what I was planning to do and brought the wrong people along for that part of the quest. I do have Fenris in the conclusion part, though, where you go to meet the Arishok.

Edit: Thanks for your reply in the other thread, DevSin. I do appreciate it, but if it's more than just a Fenris-phrased "that's dumb," I'd rather know about it before I publish the chapter.

Gah, let me play through a few quests - I don't have a save real close but I can get there pretty quickly.

[berelinde]

Wow, that's very kind of you! I hate to put you out though. If it's too much trouble, please don't bother. The story is framed as a journal, so I can just gloss through that part if it's too much work.

I was just hoping that somebody who already played it through recently/1000 times would be able to jump in with "He says 'this'."

Why can't I make a post without needing to edit it?

Modifié par berelinde, 30 août 2011 - 05:30 .

[UrsulaCousland]

berelinde wrote...

Wow, that's very kind of you! I hate to put you out though. If it's too much trouble, please don't bother. The story is framed as a journal, so I can just gloss through that part if it's too much work.

I was just hoping that somebody who already played it through recently/1000 times would be able to jump in with "He says 'this'."

Why can't I make a post without needing to edit it?

Actually, this is good for me, too - I'm still writing Act 1 stuff for my fic, and only having Fenris with me is getting all his quotes. I just had Varric with me last time and he overrode Fenris when we talked to Javaris. It's no stress.

[berelinde]

In that case, I would greatly appreciate it!

There's a lot of PT fics out there. They're great fun to write, aren't they?

[Sialater]

I dunno about fun.... but I'm currently compelled to work on one as a sequel to my DA:O fic.