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[CulturalGeekGirl]

Tashash wrote...

OK, I've started reading Coffee, Black today....and it is just....OMG - it's the most awesome thing.

I just finnished the chapter with Garrett having dinner with Leandra and teasing Sebastian....Oh, Maker it's hilarious!

And Anders' note........Bwahahahahahahah!!!!!

Coffee, Black is the best new "book" I've read all year, and that counts the new Game of Thrones. Yeah I said it, the new one was fine, but nowhere near as good as Coffee, Black.

I liked the AO3 version earlier, here's the orignal LJ thread on the k!meme (with chapters 1-41) and the continuation on the overflow thread (with chapters 42 & 43, and a promise for more... but more slowly now that school is out.) Advice for newbie LJ readers: if you want to read it on the LJ, this method works well: read a chapter or two, then open the next chapter in a new tab, and close the old window. It'll be full-size again instead of scrunched. It helps reduce the LJ scrunch problem, and gives you access to the loverly comments.

As for my fun little theories about Fenris getting help from Anders with any potential Lyrium problems... I of course assume Hawke will be involved, if Hawke is around and cares about Fenris. I just think it'd be dumb not to ask for help from the guy who is a healer and can read tevinter stuff. As for why it hasn't affected him yet, I assumed it'd be a long term thing, with the danger being that he'd end up like that old templar in DA:O, the one who had gone slightly disconnected from years of lyrium use.

I'll admit that part of it is that I've always said that any routine interaction that humanizes the other one would be very good for Anders and Fenris... and one where Anders was actually helping Fenris with a medical problem has always seemed the most obvious possible scenario that would lead to them no longer having the luxury of acting like fools.

(bah, it'll be a while before I can post tops again reliably, I'm on a terrible internet connection on an ancient laptop, and deviantart tends to make it cry at the moment.)

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 24 septembre 2011 - 05:29 .

[Arcane_Solona]

Tashash wrote...

OK, I've started reading Coffee, Black today....and it is just....OMG - it's the most awesome thing.

I just finnished the chapter with Garrett having dinner with Leandra and teasing Sebastian....Oh, Maker it's hilarious!

And Anders' note........Bwahahahahahahah!!!!!

I just finished it for the first time today and I'm starting all over again tonight. It is the GREATEST fanfic I have ever read!!! So original, yet familar at the same time!

[darkrose]

I'd wondered about the long-term effect of the brands. DG's comment about them needing to be "maintained" fits (with a little squishing) into my idea that Danarius occasionally used Fenris as a walking battery, drawing energy from him to replenish his own mana. (Yes, he's a blood mage, but sometimes, maybe you don't have a convenient sacrifice handy.)

After a few years, mage!Hawke and Fenris discover--probably by accident--that they can do the same thing. In my personal canon, it also goes both ways; Fenris can drain mana from a mage, if, for example, Hawke's angry enough to start sparking. Doing that periodically allows Fenris to maintain equilibrium so that he doesn't get lyrium poisoning from his own body. Long-term, though, that may not be enough.

My other bit of personal canon re: the markings is that Danarius cobbled the process together based on fragments of lore from the days of Arlathan. I decided this based on the fact that the Tevinter aesthetic is seriously fugly, and the markings (that we can see) have an elegance that I associate with Elven design. In order to actually figure out what's going on, Hawke will have to make a trip to the Imperium at some point. That's mostly because I like emotionally whumping my characters.

[darkrose]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Sure, but not all Hawkes are mages, and Hawke isn't circle educated. Hawke is quite powerful and intelligent, but mostly in a practical way... there's no indication that Hawke has any facility with research or book-learning, and Hawke almost certainly lacks the level of experience in such things that Anders has. Plus, we know Anders can read tevinter-related languages, and there's no reason for Hawke to possess that knowledge.

Of course a mage Hawke would be who Fenris would go to first, and Bethany (if she yet lives) would be his first choice if Hawke isn't a mage. But the person most likely to actually be able to help is Anders. (Well, in the DA2 cast. There are other mages in the extended universe who might be able to help also.) 

I'm willing to handwave a bit there, because when you get right down to it, Thedas is a ridiculously literate society for the tech level. One of the things I noticed in Origins was how almost every human house in Ferelden, even poor ones, seemed to have full bookshelves. Given that, it's not too much of a stretch to think that Hawke has at least some facility with books and reading. If he's a mage, odds are good that he knows at least some $Tevinter, because most, if not all, spellbooks would be written in that. 

If that's not true, then my mage!Hawke has a problem. Bethany's dead; the Dalish tradition is oral, and if they ever meet Anders again, Fenris is going to rip his lungs out before he can get a word in edgewise. (Spared Anders because Hawke didn't want to make him a martyr; told him to go away before the final battle.) His only option would be his cousin, who's a) insane and running the Crows with Zevran.

[Arcane_Solona]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Tashash wrote...

OK, I've started reading Coffee, Black today....and it is just....OMG - it's the most awesome thing.

I just finnished the chapter with Garrett having dinner with Leandra and teasing Sebastian....Oh, Maker it's hilarious!

And Anders' note........Bwahahahahahahah!!!!!

Coffee, Black is the best new "book" I've read all year, and that counts the new Game of Thrones. Yeah I said it, the new one was fine, but nowhere near as good as Coffee, Black.

I liked the AO3 version earlier, here's the orignal LJ thread on the k!meme (with chapters 1-41) and the continuation on the overflow thread (with chapters 42 & 43, and a promise for more... but more slowly now that school is out.) Advice for newbie LJ readers: if you want to read it on the LJ, this method works well: read a chapter or two, then open the next chapter in a new tab, and close the old window. It'll be full-size again instead of scrunched. It helps reduce the LJ scrunch problem, and gives you access to the loverly comments.

As for my fun little theories about Fenris getting help from Anders with any potential Lyrium problems... I of course assume Hawke will be involved, if Hawke is around and cares about Fenris. I just think it'd be dumb not to ask for help from the guy who is a healer and can read tevinter stuff. As for why it hasn't affected him yet, I assumed it'd be a long term thing, with the danger being that he'd end up like that old templar in DA:O, the one who had gone slightly disconnected from years of lyrium use.

I'll admit that part of it is that I've always said that any routine interaction that humanizes the other one would be very good for Anders and Fenris... and one where Anders was actually helping Fenris with a medical problem has always seemed the most obvious possible scenario that would lead to them no longer having the luxury of acting like fools.

(bah, it'll be a while before I can post tops again reliably, I'm on a terrible internet connection on an ancient laptop, and deviantart tends to make it cry at the moment.)

43?? I can't find chapter 43!!!! *sinks into manic-panic mode*

Where is it? I NEED to read it!!! *starts hyperventilating*

EDIT: Oh. Found it:D

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 24 septembre 2011 - 06:51 .

[Sealy]

Tis wonderful isn't it. *sigh* I remember fondly when it was just a baby ficlet and that was supposed to be it, but the outcry, brings a tear to the eye to see the fic all grown up and now we get to see the New York stuff! So excited, the potential angst! Sorta I mean Coffee,Black is obviously more "omg huggle" then angst but it can happen! Don't know what I am going to do without my hourly check for an update!

Lol, you know when I said he would rather die then undergo the ritual? I also think he would rather undergo the ritual then go to Anders for help.

Modifié par Fleshdress, 24 septembre 2011 - 09:26 .

[darkrose]

Fleshdress wrote...

Tis wonderful isn't it. *sigh* I remember fondly when it was just a baby ficlet and that was supposed to be it, but the outcry, brings a tear to the eye to see the fic all grown up and now we get to see the New York stuff! So excited, the potential angst! Sorta I mean Coffee,Black is obviously more "omg huggle" then angst but it can happen! Don't know what I am going to do without my hourly check for an update! 

Wait, what? New York stuff? Where?

[Sealy]

Oh sorry, I should have said now we eventually get to see the New York stuff. It's next in line I think, though slowly because of school.

[Arquen]

Got some sleep.. feeling recharged.... Out of town for emergency weekend trip, but HAVE A FENRIS....

this was the sketch I was going to color this weekend, but *sigh* -- unexpected crap FML!

http://www.tumblr.co...07j75GX11r02ori

Coffee, Black was also just what I needed to help me get my mind off things.

I am such a nerd that I actually have a few written "theories" on the lyrium markings and their effects. I thought about putting them on Tumblr but figured nobody would care, LOL. It's funny that DG mentioned it because that has always been a part of my headcannon. In fact, see my fic "the Ritual" -- Fenris mentions not knowing if the lyrium will "kill me one day..." Oh, what HAVEN'T I thought about with Fenris, LOL.

As for having to endure the ritual again -- No, wouldn't happen. Full stop. Nobody would sign up to go through the most traumatic experience of their life and the thing they have tried so hard to "move on" from. Even if it was the last option. There are things people will not do, for anyone, because they can't. This would be one of those things.

As for Anders.. interesting theory, but I don't think it would happen either. Anders is way to unstable with his own problems after Act 3. Fenris obviously won't have "problems" with the lyrium until later - long term after Danarius' death. I don't see any reason for them to even really seek out eachother.

As for the rest.. I'll write it up in a separate post when I get a chance.

[Nilfalasiel]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

keeping Fenris's liver from shutting down. 

Hawke would have to address a different substance than lyrium for this one

But yeah, whatever happens, I doubt anything as drastic as redoing the ritual would be required. If they're tattoos, they're supposedly permanent, aren't they? Especially if lyrium is considered as a metallic substance.

If the natural process of lyrium degradation takes over 7 years though, that's a pretty generous timeframe to come up with a solution.

Another question: if Danarius had to actively do something to maintain the tattoos, wouldn't Fenris remember at least part of the procedure (since it would have happened after the ritual)?

[Arcane_Solona]

Arquen wrote...

Got some sleep.. feeling recharged.... Out of town for emergency weekend trip, but HAVE A FENRIS....

this was the sketch I was going to color this weekend, but *sigh* -- unexpected crap FML!

http://www.tumblr.co...07j75GX11r02ori

Coffee, Black was also just what I needed to help me get my mind off things.

I am such a nerd that I actually have a few written "theories" on the lyrium markings and their effects. I thought about putting them on Tumblr but figured nobody would care, LOL. It's funny that DG mentioned it because that has always been a part of my headcannon. In fact, see my fic "the Ritual" -- Fenris mentions not knowing if the lyrium will "kill me one day..." Oh, what HAVEN'T I thought about with Fenris, LOL.

As for having to endure the ritual again -- No, wouldn't happen. Full stop. Nobody would sign up to go through the most traumatic experience of their life and the thing they have tried so hard to "move on" from. Even if it was the last option. There are things people will not do, for anyone, because they can't. This would be one of those things.

As for Anders.. interesting theory, but I don't think it would happen either. Anders is way to unstable with his own problems after Act 3. Fenris obviously won't have "problems" with the lyrium until later - long term after Danarius' death. I don't see any reason for them to even really seek out eachother.

As for the rest.. I'll write it up in a separate post when I get a chance.

That sketch is AMAZING! WOW! Spot on!! I am soooo saving this! 

[Arquen]

Is it weird that I just love his feet in that sketch? I love those toes, LMAO.

Oh, man my FML phase continues. Was writing this EPIC essay on Lyrium and Fenris and compiling all my notes (what I have on my laptop and what I remember) -- suddenly BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH and BOOTFAIL! Windows

FML!! -- Turns out got some kind of boot virus from a hijacked ad in Dragon Age Wiki -- SO be careful guys! Had to do a command prompt restore off my USB drive. WAS. NOT. PRETTY.

Luckily -- Saved my essay, but now I have to go and alas will have to work on it another time.

Recommend Ad-block Plus for your browsers. Protect yourself guys these boot viruses are nasty.

Modifié par Arquen, 24 septembre 2011 - 12:53 .

[Tashash]

Arquen wrote...

Is it weird that I just love his feet in that sketch? I love those toes, LMAO.

Oh, man my FML phase continues. Was writing this EPIC essay on Lyrium and Fenris and compiling all my notes (what I have on my laptop and what I remember) -- suddenly BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH and BOOTFAIL! Windows

FML!! -- Turns out got some kind of boot virus from a hijacked ad in Dragon Age Wiki -- SO be careful guys! Had to do a command prompt restore off my USB drive. WAS. NOT. PRETTY.

Luckily -- Saved my essay, but now I have to go and alas will have to work on it another time.

Recommend Ad-block Plus for your browsers. Protect yourself guys these boot viruses are nasty.

Oh sweetheart, it's just not been your day has it? *Sends massive ammounts of Fenris hugs* 
(I just finnished chap 43 of Coffee, Black and am in a serious mode of Fenris hugness)

[Arcane_Solona]

Tashash wrote...

Arquen wrote...

Is it weird that I just love his feet in that sketch? I love those toes, LMAO.

Oh, man my FML phase continues. Was writing this EPIC essay on Lyrium and Fenris and compiling all my notes (what I have on my laptop and what I remember) -- suddenly BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH and BOOTFAIL! Windows

FML!! -- Turns out got some kind of boot virus from a hijacked ad in Dragon Age Wiki -- SO be careful guys! Had to do a command prompt restore off my USB drive. WAS. NOT. PRETTY.

Luckily -- Saved my essay, but now I have to go and alas will have to work on it another time.

Recommend Ad-block Plus for your browsers. Protect yourself guys these boot viruses are nasty.

Oh sweetheart, it's just not been your day has it? *Sends massive ammounts of Fenris hugs* 
(I just finnished chap 43 of Coffee, Black and am in a serious mode of Fenris hugness)

Fenris makes me want to wear thick framed glasses and drink black coffee while snapping photographs of my surroundings, decked in black, smart, crisp clothing from head to toe. See? This is what happens when a fen-sessed freak like me reads amazing fanfics like Coffee, Black.

[Harle Cerulean]

Arcane_Solona wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

If Fenris mind did start to go so they decided (without fenris) to redo the ritual I don't know if Fenris would ever forgive Hawke, or for that matter remember Hawke.

I don't know. Depends on the reason for Hawke redoing the ritual. I don't see Fenris holding a grudge if the ritual was done to save his life. (or Hawke's life). 

Oh I do, I see big huge grudges. I don't see Fenris as a forgiving or even merciful character. I honestly think if handed the option of dying or undergoing the ritual again he would choose death. He hates what Danarius did to him, he hates it even more when he finds out he fought for it. In my opinion there is no way he is letting anyone with lyrium brands in mind near him with a 10 foot pole. On that note, I don't see my Hawke letting him die, or go crazy so they may reach a bit of an impasse 

My Hawke would never let Fenris die, no matter how much he might prefer death over the ritual. If the ritual is needed to save his life, my Hawke will talk him into it (with lots of tears and heart-wrenching begging) because she really can't see herself living with the knowledge that he could have been saved, he could be with her, alive and breathing, right now, yet she allowed him to choose death instead. My Hawke's already been through A LOT (Both siblings die, mother dies) and Fenris is really the only person she loves, so losing him is just not an option.

Heck, if he still refuses (he's not so stubborn, really; even when Hawke tells me he whines a lot, he agrees), Hawke will threaten to take her life if he chooses death. Muahahahaha:devil: Lets see him refuse NOW!

So . . . in order to avoid having to cope with the pain of losing Fenris, your Hawke would throw tantrums and resort to emotional blackmail in an attempt to force Fenris to relive the single most traumatic and painful experience of his life, one that left him a completely changed person?  What always got me was that he describes the pain as the worst he's ever felt, and he's undoubtedly been  very badly injured since; we know he was wounded severely on Seheron, since he says that the Fog Warriors nursed him back to health.

As far as your Hawke knows, Fenris would wake up from it without any memories; we know that the memory loss may have been from a deliberate erasure by Danarius, but we know that because of the letter he sends Hawke IF Hawke gives Fenris back to him.  Your Hawke wouldn't know that.  So as far as she knows, he wouldn't be 'her' Fenris anymore, she'd have lost him anyways.  And she'd have forced him, via emotional blackmail (which, frankly, I doubt would work; I'm pretty sure Fenris would point out how bull**** that is) to undergo the most horrible thing he can remember in order to lose everything but his body.

Either your Hawke is shallow and selfish, or you really haven't thought that through.

EDIT: I also think that being willing to force Fenris to undergo such horrible torment and risking the loss of the self he's been struggling to build, to avoid personal emotional pain is . . . pretty terrible.

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 24 septembre 2011 - 02:10 .

[Sialater]

Hmmm, I must be odd in thinking that Fenris would be willing to undergo it in order to remain with Hawke.

After all, he's willing to defend mages with her.

[Harle Cerulean]

I seriously doubt Fenris would. Especially since as far as /he/ knows, he'll lose his memories again. Maybe he wouldn't be dead, but it'd be effectively the death of who he's become, who he's fought so hard for the right to be. He wouldn't be with Hawke, a guy with no memories and his face would be with Hawke. Again, it's possible that he wouldn't actually lose his memories . . . but Fenris himself attributes the loss to the extreme, unbearable pain of the ritual.

There's a difference between defending mages while saying he thinks it's a bad idea, and undergoing a lengthy process (I really doubt it could possibly be done quickly, given the extent of his markings) that causes horrible pain and may well wipe out his entire life.

I think Fenris would rather face his death than go through that again. He's not afraid of death. He is afraid of magic, and of what he experienced, and of losing what he's gained.

[Friera]

I don´t know if its already put out here, but apparently this DA fangirl had coffee with David Gaider.
Check out the whole interview here;
http://dragonage.wik...ia_to_a_Fangirl

This was being said about Fenris;
"Fenris - What effects the lyrium would have on Fenris is completely up in the air. Fenris was a test case by Danarius, the first of his kind, so anything can happen (lots of jokes about how fanfiction could go crazy on this, haha). It may make him crazy, may give him added powers, we don’t know. Also, since Danarius isn’t around anymore to “maintain” the lyrium (Gaider’s word), it could become unstable. Gaider imagines lyrium like mercury. Favorite part: Gaider wrote the Fenris romance with a male Hawke in mind! I am a F!Hawke/Anders, M!Hawke/Fenris girl so this was neat to me. The rivalry romance was the one he wrote first, and the one he prefers. He absolutely insisted on the whole slamming against the wall bit. Which, oh god, great judgment call. mmmf, hawt."

Hmm.. The Lyrium is unstable....

Modifié par Friera, 24 septembre 2011 - 02:50 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Of course, all that said, I also seriously doubt that the ritual would need to be redone - the expense in lyrium would not be worth the resulting bodyguard. I have a feeling that the 'maintaining' is of a less than physical kind. Possibly a sort of sustained magic preventing the rejection of the lyrium by his body? It would be another reason Danarius could find him so quickly, if he has a sustained spell on Fenris.

Of course, then there's the issue of whether Danarius would consider him worth the constant effort when he's been a runaway for nine years by Act III, and begs the question of why he didn't just cut the spell and let Fenris die, then collect the body. Though, we've also seen that Danarius is actually pretty set on getting Fenris back alive, whatever Fenris might say about Danarius wanting to extract the lyrium from him. He wouldn't need Fenris to be alive to do that, all the lyrium would still be there in a corpse.

Still, maintaining is . . . not redoing. If Fenris were a car, maintennce would be oil changes, rotating the tires, and flushing the brake lines, not dismantling the engine and rebuilding it. I find it unlikely that maintenance on Fenris' lyrium would require a complete rebuild; it's more likely that he needs . . . the lyrium and magic equivelant of an oil change, whatever that would be.

[Harle Cerulean]

Friera wrote...

I don´t know if its already put out here, but apparently this DA fangirl had coffee with David Gaider.
Check out the whole interview here;
http://dragonage.wik...ia_to_a_Fangirl

This was being said about Fenris;
"Fenris - What effects the lyrium would have on Fenris is completely up in the air. Fenris was a test case by Danarius, the first of his kind, so anything can happen (lots of jokes about how fanfiction could go crazy on this, haha). It may make him crazy, may give him added powers, we don’t know. Also, since Danarius isn’t around anymore to “maintain” the lyrium (Gaider’s word), it could become unstable. Gaider imagines lyrium like mercury. Favorite part: Gaider wrote the Fenris romance with a male Hawke in mind! I am a F!Hawke/Anders, M!Hawke/Fenris girl so this was neat to me. The rivalry romance was the one he wrote first, and the one he prefers. He absolutely insisted on the whole slamming against the wall bit. Which, oh god, great judgment call. mmmf, hawt."

Hmm.. The Lyrium is unstable....

That's actually the source of our current discussion!

[Sialater]

I agree with the idea that maintenance doesn't equal a complete reapplication of lyrium. But if there's a spell that would keep him around, even one that had to be done by Anders, I don't think he'd be willing to give up Hawke that easily.

[Harle Cerulean]

Oh, same. I just think he wouldn't agree to redoing the ritual. Too painful, too risky, too traumatic. But if there was another way, sure.

[Sialater]

Well.. I'm sure the ritual didn't HAVE to be painful. Danarius just wouldn't have bothered to find a gentle way to do what he wanted to do.

[Annarl]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I seriously doubt Fenris would. Especially since as far as /he/ knows, he'll lose his memories again. Maybe he wouldn't be dead, but it'd be effectively the death of who he's become, who he's fought so hard for the right to be. He wouldn't be with Hawke, a guy with no memories and his face would be with Hawke. Again, it's possible that he wouldn't actually lose his memories . . . but Fenris himself attributes the loss to the extreme, unbearable pain of the ritual.

There's a difference between defending mages while saying he thinks it's a bad idea, and undergoing a lengthy process (I really doubt it could possibly be done quickly, given the extent of his markings) that causes horrible pain and may well wipe out his entire life.

I think Fenris would rather face his death than go through that again. He's not afraid of death. He is afraid of magic, and of what he experienced, and of losing what he's gained.

I think that would be the key part of Fenris' agreement to touch up the lyrium or not.  I don't think he would do it, if it could mean, he would lose the person he has become...think of what it would be like to lose all your memories...again.  But if he could replenish the lyrium without that risk or the pain, I think he would, just to be stable. (Would the whole ritual need to be done to replenish the lyrium?) Because a question to ask, is what happens as the lyrium wears off.  Are there any dangers to Fenris' health without the lyrium....such withdrawal.   It is an interesting question, with many possible answers.  I doubt we'll get them but I hope for Fenris' sake, he can live normally as the lyrium wears off.

Modifié par omearaee, 24 septembre 2011 - 03:31 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Well, since part of the ritual was marking him . . . no, pretty sure it had to be painful. Whether you think the markings are tattoos, brands, or injected lyrium in his veins, either way, there's pretty much no way to escape pain there.