55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Arcane_Solona]

 I'm very anti-smoke myself. I can proudly say I have never so much as taken a single puff in my entire 19 years of life. I don't know why the thought occurred to me. I guess its how my brain sees things. Strange brain.
@Arquen I completely agree with you regarding Fenris' immense willpower. It is really admirable how he carries on after all he has been through, always maintaining a strength that is awe-inspiring. He is the most inspirational character in the game (more so than Hawke).
I agree that we shouldn't compare Fenris' and Anders' past. Its just that I admire so much how Fenris doesn't spend his life whining about how difficult his life is. Maybe its because I'm like that myself (I am not a complainer AT ALL) and complainers tend to really irk me.
Also, I adore how, despite all his stoicness, hatred and angst, he has an amazing sense of humour and laughs more than any other character in the game. Some of the characters don't take Hawke's humour very well, but he always does (well, apart from the time Hawke tells him he should write his story down, and he scolds her/him and says "You think slaves learn how to write?" or something along those lines. He sounded quite angry when he said that).
Ah, Fenris. I love you. *sinks into a dream-like state*

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 03 octobre 2011 - 09:35 .

[Arcane_Solona]

tankgirly wrote...



by my dear friend sweetcandyrain, previously known as sweetfoxy, the artist who did the lovely picture of Anders.

I wanna kiss him so bad. WHY are you fictional, Fenris? WHY?

[Sir Edric]

Arcane_Solona wrote...
I wanna kiss him so bad. WHY are you fictional, Fenris? WHY?

B/c then you, I and a few other hundred people would be fighting who would get him.

And no, there's no sharing:P

Modifié par Vrex_12, 03 octobre 2011 - 09:48 .

[Nilfalasiel]

Arquen wrote...

Careful with comparing Anders's misfortunes to Fenris. Anders has been through a lot of hardship and one could say, torture, by the Templars. Solitary confinement, constant scrutiny and cruelty. I would never compare one to the other. They both have had severely traumatic events that have shaped who they are.

This.

While I completely agree that Fenris is not "emo", I can't call Anders "emo" either. They've both been through some horrible experiences. And mages aren't so very far removed from slavery, especially in Kirkwall. Seriously, when you're automatically reviled for something you've been born with, and people like you are being essentially lobotomised around you on a regular basis, whether they've actually done something wrong or not, if not imprisoned, I think there's a pretty damn good reason to be unhappy and complain. Not to mention that, when he tried to help, it backfired into his face in the worst possible way (by making him a liability to his own cause). But he does actually try to do something about it, rather than just sit and whine.

So yes, it might not be as traumatic as undergoing an incredibly painful process that burns lyrium into your skin (although, I'm not so sure), and he doesn't deal with it with the same stoicism as Fenris does, but it certainly doesn't justify being called "emo".

As for Fenris not fitting into the plot...uh, how is he less relevant than, say, Aveline, or Merrill? Not quite sure where people are getting this opinion.

Also, that pic by sweetcandyrain is gorgeous.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 03 octobre 2011 - 11:00 .

[Arcane_Solona]

Vrex_12 wrote...

Arcane_Solona wrote...
I wanna kiss him so bad. WHY are you fictional, Fenris? WHY?

B/c then you, I and a few other hundred people would be fighting who would get him.

And no, there's no sharing:P

Excellent  point, my friend:P

EDIT: LOL! I just had the craziest thought! I imagined Fenris sitting behind a long judge's table, with all the other DA2 characters as fellow judges, and all of us fangirls/boys are contestants that are eliminated every week based on Fenris' experiences with us, and the final person left gets him all to her/his self! Basically a DA version of "The Bachelor":P It would be called "Fenris' Next Top Lover". Okay, crazy thought is over. Please excuse me for my silliness.:innocent:

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 03 octobre 2011 - 11:06 .

[Arcane_Solona]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Arquen wrote...

Careful with comparing Anders's misfortunes to Fenris. Anders has been through a lot of hardship and one could say, torture, by the Templars. Solitary confinement, constant scrutiny and cruelty. I would never compare one to the other. They both have had severely traumatic events that have shaped who they are.

While I completely agree that Fenris is not "emo", I can't call Anders "emo" either. They've both been through some horrible experiences. And mages aren't so very far removed from slavery, especially in Kirkwall. Seriously, when you're automatically reviled for something you've been born with, and people like you are being essentially lobotomised around you on a regular basis, whether they've actually done something wrong or not, if not imprisoned, I think there's a pretty damn good reason to be unhappy and complain. Not to mention that, when he tried to help, it backfired into his face in the worst possible way (by making him a liability to his own cause). But he does actually try to do something about it, rather than just sit and whine.

So yes, it might not be as traumatic as undergoing an incredibly painful process that burns lyrium into your skin (although, I'm not so sure), and he doesn't deal with it with the same stoicism as Fenris does, but it certainly doesn't justify being called "emo".

As for Fenris not fitting into the plot...uh, how is he less relevant than, say, Aveline, or Merrill? Not quite sure where people are getting this opinion.

Also, that pic by sweetcandyrain is gorgeous.

I really find it difficult to understand how people think Fenris doesn't fit in the plot. If anything, he fits perfectly into it! I can't believe that he's an optional character and that getting him is a side quest! Has anyone ever played an entire playthrough without recruiting him? Hmmm... maybe this is the wrong question to ask in the FENRIS discussion thread:P

I dunno... yeah, I guess Anders isn't emo. I hate that word, by the way. Its such a "new generation" thing; I can't stand it. But I do wish he'd loosen up a bit. I really do hate it when people whine. But its just his personality, I guess. They can't all be perfect like Fenris (perfect in my eyes; I know he is far from perfect from an objective view).

[Night Dreams]

I love all the art displayed on here, I'll never get sick of it all!

Modifié par Night Dreams, 03 octobre 2011 - 11:12 .

[Arquen]

Of course using my well thought rebuttals of the Fenris haters are going to be received well HERE. I mean, it's like preaching to the choir, LOL.

That being said I find that often times people do cite his lack of relevance to the overall story as a reason to dislike him. He isn't "interesting" enough for them. Also, he is very rude and ungrateful (lol), he is opinionated and arrogant (lol), he whines about his markings, therefore making him emo ( *facepalm*), and (my favorite) he is mean to Hawke and the other companions for no good reason. Plus, he is hard as hell to friend, and often betrays you in the end game.

Not to mention all the complaints about the romance and how he leaves you. For selfishness, and out of fear of commitment. He uses you for a one night stand then spits you out and goes *trololol* The whole "and yeah.. who actually believes those memories came back?! chyaah!"

I think a lot of the hate comes from pure ignorance or misinterpretation of the character. People tend to dismiss Fenris after his first scene outside Danarius' mansion as a "jerk, meanie face!" and don't really give a damn about getting to know the character after that. "He called my sister a viper! He scrutinized my Hawke for being a mage! He is incredibly mean to Merrill!"

I mean, am I just that unique of an individual that I have no problem friending Fenris? It comes natural to me. In my first PT I was his friend.. on a MAGE.. and sided with MAGES. I ended up in a friendmance with him. I just.. I don't understand sometimes. I gave up trying. I also gave up trying to defend Fenris to anyone. I simply.. don't care. Believe what you want ... haters gonna hate, but sometimes the arguments presented just make me go "wait.. what? What game did you play?" -- that's not even just with Fenris, but other things as well.

I really hate the Anders vs Fenris thing too. Like automatically if you like one you hate the other. I love them both. In different ways, and Fenris is always my romance, but Anders in his own right is a wonderful character who I think is also dismissed too easily by people. It seems that in DA2 there are such layers to the characters that it is easy to get bogged into the top layer and never see what is below the surface. Either for lack of caring or lack of willingness to do so. I always over-analyze and peel back layers until I get to a core. I love doing it. I can't help it. I'm special that way, LOL.

Oh, and since I'm ranting, and tired, and whatever... Have a Fenris.. on me...



Sorry.. too tired to do a fenris sketch right now. A screenie will have to do.

Modifié par Arquen, 03 octobre 2011 - 01:22 .

[Heidenreich]

Arquen wrote...

Of course using my well thought rebuttals of the Fenris haters are going to be received well HERE. I mean, it's like preaching to the choir, LOL.

That being said I find that often times people do cite his lack of relevance to the overall story as a reason to dislike him. He isn't "interesting" enough for them. Also, he is very rude and ungrateful (lol), he is opinionated and arrogant (lol), he whines about his markings, therefore making him emo ( *facepalm*), and (my favorite) he is mean to Hawke and the other companions for no good reason. Plus, he is hard as hell to friend, and often betrays you in the end game.

Not to mention all the complaints about the romance and how he leaves you. For selfishness, and out of fear of commitment. He uses you for a one night stand then spits you out and goes *trololol* The whole "and yeah.. who actually believes those memories came back?! chyaah!"

I think a lot of the hate comes from pure ignorance or misinterpretation of the character. People tend to dismiss Fenris after his first scene outside Danarius' mansion as a "jerk, meanie face!" and don't really give a damn about getting to know the character after that. "He called my sister a viper! He scrutinized my Hawke for being a mage! He is incredibly mean to Merrill!"

I mean, am I just that unique of an individual that I have no problem friending Fenris? It comes natural to me. In my first PT I was his friend.. on a MAGE.. and sided with MAGES. I ended up in a friendmance with him. I just.. I don't understand sometimes. I gave up trying. I also gave up trying to defend Fenris to anyone. I simply.. don't care. Believe what you want ... haters gonna hate, but sometimes the arguments presented just make me go "wait.. what? What game did you play?" -- that's not even just with Fenris, but other things as well.

I really hate the Anders vs Fenris thing too. Like automatically if you like one you hate the other. I love them both. In different ways, and Fenris is always my romance, but Anders in his own right is a wonderful character who I think is also dismissed too easily by people. It seems that in DA2 there are such layers to the characters that it is easy to get bogged into the top layer and never see what is below the surface. Either for lack of caring or lack of willingness to do so. I always over-analyze and peel back layers until I get to a core. I love doing it. I can't help it. I'm special that way, LOL.

Oh, and since I'm ranting, and tired, and whatever... Have a Fenris.. on me...



Sorry.. too tired to do a fenris sketch right now. A screenie will have to do.

*grabs her over-stuffed flannel comfoter of doom, grabs Arquen, and grabs a bottle of wine.*

Come snuggle with me Arquen. We'll drink some red wine in front of the fire place all snuggly warm and sleepy!<3

[Arquen]

LOL, only if I can bring some Fenfic! Muahahaha...

Maker... a bottle of Tevinter wine sounds excellent right now. I spent my whole night being in charge, solving people's problems, and *facepalming* all night long.

I'm with Fenris.. I'm no leader. Not because I can't, but because.. who needs that?

[Heidenreich]

Arquen wrote...

LOL, only if I can bring some Fenfic! Muahahaha...

Maker... a bottle of Tevinter wine sounds excellent right now. I spent my whole night being in charge, solving people's problems, and *facepalming* all night long.

I'm with Fenris.. I'm no leader. Not because I can't, but because.. who needs that?

Absolutely


Bring the FenFic, and a couple of extra fluffy pillows and we'll recouperate from weekend working evils TOGETTTHHER. With wine. And a cracking fireplace.. and..

Now I'm having devious thoughts of kidnapping Gidieon so he can talk to us. Shirtless because the man is awfully nice to look at too.



:whistle:and on that note, I'm going to go fangirl over Ezio for a little while.:innocent:

Modifié par Heidenreich, 03 octobre 2011 - 02:14 .

[Sir Edric]

Arcane_Solona wrote...
Excellent  point, my friend:P

EDIT: LOL! I just had the craziest thought! I imagined Fenris sitting behind a long judge's table, with all the other DA2 characters as fellow judges, and all of us fangirls/boys are contestants that are eliminated every week based on Fenris' experiences with us, and the final person left gets him all to her/his self! Basically a DA version of "The Bachelor":P It would be called "Fenris' Next Top Lover". Okay, crazy thought is over. Please excuse me for my silliness.:innocent:

Buhahah! Oh, the drama that would cause:D

Arcane_Solona wrote...
I really find it difficult to understand how people think Fenris doesn't fit in the plot. If anything,he fits perfectly into it! I can't believe that he's an optional character and that getting him is a side quest! Has anyone ever played an entire playthrough without recruiting him? Hmmm... maybe this is the wrong question to ask in the FENRIS discussion thread

And yet people complain by saying that Anders has a bigger role than Hawke, which they hate. People are strange<_< I actually liked it very much, not just having the protagonist being the center of attention (but still leads to this even when it's Anders that blows up the chantry).

And recrtuiting Fenris being a side quest, yeah a bit annoying, but still not. I like there being the option of me having the choice to do what I want, not just the game forcing me to have party members, and I love DA for this. But I still pick up every party member. I both love and hate everyone for different reasons, but it's more on the love side for everyone.

Arquen wrote...
That being said I find that often times people do cite his lack of relevance to the overall story as a reason to dislike him. He isn't "interesting" enough for them. Also, he is very rude and ungrateful (lol), he is opinionated and arrogant (lol), he whines about his markings, therefore making him emo ( *facepalm*), and (my favorite) he is mean to Hawke and the other companions for no good reason. Plus, he is hard as hell to friend, and often betrays you in the end game.

Only a true fan can describe their adored characters postive and negative side.

I like Fenris very much, but I also am not blinde by his awesomness. But even though there are some negatives to Fenris, the postive still overcomes it with great easeB)

I think a lot of the hate comes from pure ignorance or misinterpretation of the character. People tend to dismiss Fenris after his first scene outside Danarius' mansion as a "jerk, meanie face!" and don't really give a damn about getting to know the character after that."He called my sister a viper! He scrutinized my Hawke for being a mage!He is incredibly mean to Merrill!"

The thing with people  (or what I want to believe) is that they seem to just look at the surface on that one specific person. They say Anders whine to much and Fenris is just --as you already said-- emo and heartless. Well, they both have reason to it being so!
I mean, I liked Anders in Awekening a lot, but I like the Anders in DA2 much much more. Why can't people see that persons can change? Okay, Anders may be sometimes to extrem, and his arguments are maybe not of the best, but he's stubborn and doesn't give up no matter what (sort of).
Fenris has all the right to be "heartless" and distant, and I'm certainly not judging him for it. I just want to understand him better and make him see otherwise. And I hope I managed to do this when I can continue my adventoures with him=]

Modifié par Vrex_12, 03 octobre 2011 - 02:32 .

[Arquen]

I pretty much agree on all points about Fenris. Anders is a different matter though.

One of the things that draws me to Fenris is that he can be and is so "heartless," but Maker that heart is beautiful once he lets you in.

That character development from going to never having anyone he could trust. "Who would I trust?" to having someone he can rely on. To having someone he calls friend. To actually falling in love with that person? That in itself is an amazing mental overhaul. The fact he reworks his entire defense and coping mechanisms because of his feelings for Hawke is astounding and unique. People don't do this. People arguably can't do this. Defense mechanisms and coping mechanisms are so ingrained in the human psyche that people rarely can will them to change. They rarely can rework them or get rid of them.

There are negative aspects of Fenris. He isn't perfect. I do not hero worship him. The point is that when I look at Fenris as a character, and listen to him, and analyze him, the "faults" simply become less apparent. His "meanness" doesn't bother me at all. His rage is something in him that I enjoy seeing. It's personal, and a piece of himself that he struggles with, but when it slips it is part of who he tries to hide from everyone. That seething river of emotion under a calm surface.

His "always dwelling on the negative" thing amuses me. Especially since you can call him out on it.

I think a true fan is someone who can embrace the character as a whole. Both the positive and the negative and not want to "change" the character to fit personal or stereotypical needs. I never wanted to "fix" Fenris. I'm not a "fixer." I appreciated that Fenris wanted to fix himself, and I helped in every way I could to push him to do so. I supported him and his development. I didn't try to take him and change him into someone or something he isn't.

Modifié par Arquen, 03 octobre 2011 - 03:54 .

[Jessicles]

Arcane_Solona wrote...
Basically a DA version of "The Bachelor":P It would be called "Fenris' Next Top Lover". Okay, crazy thought is over. Please excuse me for my silliness.:innocent:

*is playing this in her mind*

[AbsoluteApril]

Arcane_Solona wrote...
Basically a DA version of "The Bachelor":P It would be called "Fenris' Next Top Lover". Okay, crazy thought is over. Please excuse me for my silliness.:innocent:

Now I have this vision of Fenris in a tux holding out a rose...

Yes, Chris, I'll go for the night in the fantasy suite. 

[AbsoluteApril]

Arquen wrote...

Not to mention all the complaints about the romance and how he leaves you.

obviously the people that get mad about that are not trully devoted to their love for him then! (said in my most snarky voice) He's so hurt and upset, Hawke needs to stand by him for good or bad and have trust he will come back.  Although I do wish there was the option to try to hug him at this point...  even if he rejected it;  I *love* how they did his facial expressions at this part in the game by the fireplace and how he slumps down as he turns away from Hawke, you can *feel* his turmoil and regret as he's doing it... *sigh*

Arquen wrote...
 A screenie will have to do.
<handsome elf screenie snipped>

ooo nice! I love screenshots. The textures you guys have from the PC are amazing. I ordered a game capture device so will be posting my own 'screenshots' in a week or so..  you've all been warned!

Quick question, do we ever see the bottom of Fenris' chin? I am curious about the markings there and hadn't been able to track any screenshots down...  two lines that go up to his lip, are those from the markings straight up the neck or part of the markings from the branch on the side that goes up behind his ear? (hard to describe, if that makes no sense let me know and I'll sketch it up)

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 03 octobre 2011 - 07:06 .

[SurrealSadi]

Arcane_Solona wrote...

Does anyone else on this thread see Fenris as being a smoker? Or am I the only one out there? His voice is so...smokey, if that makes sense. I don't mean its unhealthy or anything, but in a sexy, gravelly sort of way. I'm not a smoker myself, but the thought just occurred to me (random thoughts occur to me all the time).

Heh. Have you been reading Coffee, Black ?

[Arcane_Solona]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Arcane_Solona wrote...

Does anyone else on this thread see Fenris as being a smoker? Or am I the only one out there? His voice is so...smokey, if that makes sense. I don't mean its unhealthy or anything, but in a sexy, gravelly sort of way. I'm not a smoker myself, but the thought just occurred to me (random thoughts occur to me all the time).

Heh. Have you been reading Coffee, Black ?

*Grins sheepishly* I have, actually:P

[Arcane_Solona]

As to the talk about embracing Fenris' positive and negative traits, I'm all for that. He isn't perfect. No one is. As much as I (and my Hawke) love him, I'm not "blinded" by him. This notion of "love is blind" is crap to me. Everyone has faults. The key is to love those faults as much as you love the good traits.
If Fenris was perfect, I don't think I would have been attracted to him at all. His anger, his stubbornness, his wit, his dark and broody demeanour, and his "meanness" are all endearing to me, and especially when playing a mage Hawke, the fact that he falls so deeply and passionately in love with her is just amazing. Almost breathtaking. To see him develop from the young man who hated anything that magic touches to falling in love with a mage and treasuring him/her more than anything or anyone else in his life. "Meeting you was the most important thing that ever happened to me, Hawke. Promise me you won't die. I can't bear the thought of living without you". And this coming from someone who "never let anyone too close" and always isolated himself from the rest of the world. Does it get any better than that? And to hear him say it to a mage. Wow. Just wow.

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 04 octobre 2011 - 01:28 .

[Arcane_Solona]

Arquen wrote...


Oh, and since I'm ranting, and tired, and whatever... Have a Fenris.. on me...



Sorry.. too tired to do a fenris sketch right now. A screenie will have to do.

He looks so thoughtful here. Like he's lost in a deep reverie. Suits him so well. Love it!

[SurrealSadi]

Arcane_Solona wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Arcane_Solona wrote...

Does anyone else on this thread see Fenris as being a smoker? Or am I the only one out there? His voice is so...smokey, if that makes sense. I don't mean its unhealthy or anything, but in a sexy, gravelly sort of way. I'm not a smoker myself, but the thought just occurred to me (random thoughts occur to me all the time).

Heh. Have you been reading Coffee, Black ?

*Grins sheepishly* I have, actually:P

That's part of the "Fenris has a smokey voice" thing... That and Gideon Emery just has that kind of sexy gravelly voice.

[Hekateras]

Arquen wrote..

One of the things that draws me to Fenris is that he can be and is so "heartless," but Maker that heart is beautiful once he lets you in.

That character development from going to never having anyone he could trust. "Who would I trust?" to having someone he can rely on. To having someone he calls friend. To actually falling in love with that person? That in itself is an amazing mental overhaul. The fact he reworks his entire defense and coping mechanisms because of his feelings for Hawke is astounding and unique. People don't do this. People arguably can't do this. Defense mechanisms and coping mechanisms are so ingrained in the human psyche that people rarely can will them to change. They rarely can rework them or get rid of them.

*sniff sniff*

Beautifully said.

[Naqey]

Finally "delurking", since nothing much is going on in my "regular" thread  

Arcane_Solona wrote...

As to the talk about embracing Fenris' positive and negative traits, I'm all for that. He isn't perfect. No one is. As much as I (and my Hawke) love him, I'm not "blinded" by him. This notion of "love is blind" is crap to me. Everyone has faults. The key is to love those faults as much as you love the good traits.

Well, if he was perfect, he'd be boring, right? If it was all "smooth sailing", we'd not be as engaged in it as we are, isn't it? I've once read an argument in which some people wanted "normal, non-angsty" romance, with LIs who are not somehow "broken". But honestly, I'm convinced that Mr. Gaider (and Ms Brandes Hepler for that) know very well what they are doing... what strings they have to pull to cause what reaction. At least that's what's true for me. The mistrust, hurt, the heartbreak, the comfort, healing and absolute devotion and bliss, in short: the whole spectrum of human emotions that we are going through is exiting and endearing.

But what is it about guys like Fenris in particular? I guess it's the inbred "helper syndrome" that many of us have (particularly girls). Fenris' hurt and taciturnity, together with a traumatic dark past... that just triggers something within me. He is "broken" and somehow needs "fixing". What's fascinating about Fenris here is that he does much of that fixing himself. Sure, if Hawke wasn't there for him... Fenris needs Hawke as support, he needs Hawke's loyality to again learn to trust. But Hawke's role is passive, the actual fixing is done by Fenris himself. He is such an incredibly strong character...

Arquen wrote...

That character development from going to never having anyone he could
trust. "Who would I trust?" to having someone he can rely on. To having
someone he calls friend. To actually falling in love with that person?
That in itself is an amazing mental overhaul. The fact he reworks his
entire defense and coping mechanisms because of his feelings for Hawke
is astounding and unique. People don't do this. People arguably can't do
this. Defense mechanisms and coping mechanisms are so ingrained in the
human psyche that people rarely can will them to change. They rarely can
rework them or get rid of them.

...almost impossibly strong!

It's a Bioware game... you know there is a "good and loveable soul" hidden behind all that gruff outward appearance. To slowly, one layer after the other, excavate that... the very process of it, is one of the nicest video-gaming experiences I know  

But maybe you totally disagree with me there?

If Anders didn't pull my strings even harder, I'd be all over Fenris. I'd probably be the most crazy, rabid fangirl. xD

[Arquen]

Naqey -- welcome to my "regular" thread! - LOL.

I find myself agreeing with you (stop doing that! lol) about the "good and loveable soul." It is what makes Fenris an anti-hero and not a villain. I love anti-heroes. Soft spot for them.

I'm not really going to touch the "normal LI" debate. I don't have that "helper syndrome," and what draws me to Fenris more-so than Anders is exactly the fact that he does fix himself. When he leaves Hawke after their night together I am more inclined to say "good.. get it together and get back to me.." than I am to be like "nooo we can work this out together! I need you!"

It isn't his brokenness that draws me. It is his strength and will. It is a need in me to make him see that he is capable of becoming so much more than he is. He needs a push, and just a push, and he takes it from there. It is also a need in me that likes to be "that person" who is trustworthy and loyal. Who is always seeking to put their trust and loyalty into someone who will return it in full. Fenris fulfills this role excellently.

I don't want to fix him. I don't want to have to hold his hand, take him by the collar, shake him into some "change" of his character. I want him to embrace what he is, what he has accomplished, and what he can become.

The one thing I will say about the romances and characters and DG is that they do know what they are doing to create friction and drama in a story. Plus, I'm with DG -- bittersweet stories are the bestest.

My absolute favorite quote in the world I share with you: "...for if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth." -- J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion

"The sweet is not as sweet without the sour.. believe me.. I know the sour" -- Vanilla Sky (just because it also is relevant here, LOL)

When I think of the romances in Bioware games and the characters.. I think of these two things.

When I think of Fenris I think of : "Home is behind, the world ahead, and there are many paths to tread. Through shadow, to the edge of night, until the stars are all alight..." -- Pippin, Return of the King (though not in the book.. the song is perfect!)

Of course I think of many more things than this, but I'm in a bittersweet quoting mood.

Modifié par Arquen, 04 octobre 2011 - 07:14 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I disagree with you, Arquen (and we were doing so well, lately), when it comes to the idea that Fenris has fixed himself. It's actually where I differ most from the majority of the denizens of the Fenris thread.

I think that at the end of the game, Fenris still has a serious problem: he's still kind of a bigot. Now, Gaider has been able to do something miraculous here: he's crafted a bigot that I sympathize with, despite the fact that I'm always the kind of person to fight with the Native American metaphor against the American Military metaphor.

It's really interesting because usually, the bigot is the one character type I find it hardest to sympathize with. But I still like Fenris, so much that I've completed his romance twice, and I at least start it almost every playthrough.

For me, Fenris perfectly captures a particular kind of romance that I would, indeed, classify as bittersweet, but that is not the particular bittersweet romance you're describing. Fenris is the argument guy. He's the guy who is almost... almost unreasonable enough that you give up, but not quite. Because you can see the core of goodness under all that scar tissue, and you know that it's reachable, even if the first few years of your relationship are essentially a long argument, punctuated by makeouts.

(Coffee, Black removes this quality from Fenris, making him almost a different character, an elseworlds of himself. That's also why that story is the first time I've ever felt the warm, marshmallow-y type of affection for him. It's also the only scenario in which I currently strongly prefer the friendmance.)

In fiction, I tend to go for the agreeable one, the reasonable one. I've had enough adversarial relationships with guys who were simply infuriating... I don't need to simulate it fictionally. But Fenris manages to capture the good parts of that relationship too: the feeling that you're challenging him, perhaps for the first time. The feeling that he finds you puzzling, because you break all the rules he is so sure are always completely true. The feeling that what you can offer is valuable enough to make him break his own rules.

For me, the most shivery part of the entire Fenris romance is "festis bei umo canavarum." That's what makes me sit back in my chair and grin like an idiot. Almost every other scene, I prefer the friendship path, but watching him pace as he tries to justify the very idea of you to himself... as he's trying to square everything that has happened with his worldview and utterly failing... it's amazing.

I actually originally didn't want to rival him... I felt like he needed a friend, more than anything else. And now, I feel like It's worth having him **** you out about the book because, god of gods, in the long term it's actually bloody better for him to be rivaled. So I have to suck it up and swallow my compassion, and be the fight he needs to have.

And the look he gives you when you tell him he doesn't have to go through this alone and he says "Don't I?"... it gets me every time.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 04 octobre 2011 - 09:03 .