55380 réponses à ce sujet

[UrsulaCousland]

darkrose wrote...

omearaee wrote...

I agree with you.  He's not overemotional.  He's like a storm in box, sometimes the storm escapes usually when he's talking to Hawke but the outbreaks are few and far between.  He doesn't throw his hand to his brow and cry "Oh Woe is me" all the time. 

No, he doesn't, but I have to say that when he first meets Hawke and he's going on about how "Dark magic is a plague that's burned into my flesh and my soul," I always giggle. Especially since my Hawke is standing there thinking, "He's talking...Maker, but he sounds sexy...he's so hot...damn, what was that he just said again?"

*giggle* yeah, he gets that a lot from my Hawkes.  (It even made it into Aniya's fic...)

ETA: I dunno how I manage to get ToP so much when I am mostly lurking these days. Ah well - Have a Fenris, courtesy of Alsiony (reposting a favorite of mine...I couldn't find a BAMF Fenris I liked, so we have romantic-squee Fenris instead. )

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 05 octobre 2011 - 03:44 .

[Arcane_Solona]

UrsulaCousland wrote...

darkrose wrote...

omearaee wrote...

I agree with you.  He's not overemotional.  He's like a storm in box, sometimes the storm escapes usually when he's talking to Hawke but the outbreaks are few and far between.  He doesn't throw his hand to his brow and cry "Oh Woe is me" all the time. 

No, he doesn't, but I have to say that when he first meets Hawke and he's going on about how "Dark magic is a plague that's burned into my flesh and my soul," I always giggle. Especially since my Hawke is standing there thinking, "He's talking...Maker, but he sounds sexy...he's so hot...damn, what was that he just said again?"

*giggle* yeah, he gets that a lot from my Hawkes. 

ETA: I dunno how I manage to get ToP so much when I am mostly lurking these days. Ah well - Have a Fenris, courtesy of Alsiony (reposting a favorite of mine...I couldn't find a BAMF Fenris I liked, so we have romantic-squee Fenris instead. )

This one never fails to send shivers down my spine. Maker's breath:wub:

[Arcane_Solona]

Okay, some of you might disagree with me, but listen to the following song by Gideon Emery called "Let there be love" and tell me that isn't Fenris singing while cooped up alone with Hawke in his "borrowed" High Town mansion:

http://www.youtube.c...u/3/3IM4Tvl9jfo

Bonus for animal lovers: You get to watch a couple of cute little duckies swimming around Gideon's pool:P

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 05 octobre 2011 - 03:47 .

[Tealsie]

Arcane_Solona wrote...

Okay, some of you might disagree with me, but listen to the following song by Gideon Emery called "Let there be love" and tell me that isn't Fenris singing while cooped up alone with Hawke in his "borrowed" High Town mansion:

http://www.youtube.c...u/3/3IM4Tvl9jfo

Bonus for animal lovers: You get to watch a couple of cute little duckies swimming around Gideon's pool:P

He sounds like he had fun singing that.  And yeah, I can kind of see(hear?) Fenris singing that to Hawke. Maybe on a rainy day. And they would be dancing while he sings.

[Tashash]

Arcane_Solona wrote...

Okay, some of you might disagree with me, but listen to the following song by Gideon Emery called "Let there be love" and tell me that isn't Fenris singing while cooped up alone with Hawke in his "borrowed" High Town mansion:

http://www.youtube.c...u/3/3IM4Tvl9jfo

Oh my, squeee! I think I just died from that.... X _ X

[UrsulaCousland]

Tashash wrote...

Arcane_Solona wrote...

Okay, some of you might disagree with me, but listen to the following song by Gideon Emery called "Let there be love" and tell me that isn't Fenris singing while cooped up alone with Hawke in his "borrowed" High Town mansion:

http://www.youtube.c...u/3/3IM4Tvl9jfo

Oh my, squeee! I think I just died from that.... X _ X

I hadn't seen that, but I own the album, and...yeah.

[Arquen]

UrsulaCousland wrote...

darkrose wrote...

omearaee wrote...

I agree with you.  He's not overemotional.  He's like a storm in box, sometimes the storm escapes usually when he's talking to Hawke but the outbreaks are few and far between.  He doesn't throw his hand to his brow and cry "Oh Woe is me" all the time. 

No, he doesn't, but I have to say that when he first meets Hawke and he's going on about how "Dark magic is a plague that's burned into my flesh and my soul," I always giggle. Especially since my Hawke is standing there thinking, "He's talking...Maker, but he sounds sexy...he's so hot...damn, what was that he just said again?"

*giggle* yeah, he gets that a lot from my Hawkes.  (It even made it into Aniya's fic...)
*snip for space*

When my Hawke first walked out and he was sitting against that wall after... "I need some air..." I was just waiting for him to be angry. He had not found his master, he owed me for a job that I didn't even do, and then he excused himself after it was over -- leaving us all the spoils. So I walk out and think.. "well.. that sucks, but is predictable. I'm sure he's disappointed."

Instead he goes " It never ends. I escaped a land of dark magic, only to have it hunt me at every turn. It is a plague burned into my flesh and my soul." I think my first thought was "Well.. that was poetic. Nice intro!" It immediately hooked me in -- "burned into flesh and soul? Really? Soul? I want to know more about this soul you speak of..."

I think people often relate that first statement to the second one about "I saw you casting spells inside..." -- Yet, he says the first line even if Hawke is not a mage and there is no mage in party. I took it as a generalized statement about how the hunters keep finding him. How his master keeps wanting him back, and won't give up. I never related it to my Hawke as the thing that was "hunting him." I think sometimes people take what Fenris says too personally when really he isn't trying to be personal with his statements at all.

Also, the pumpkin is totally Carver -- the last night before they go on the deep roads... LOL. "Here's to you -- little brother!" MUauhahahaha...

[Naqey]

Arquen wrote...

Instead he goes " It never ends. I escaped a land of dark magic, only to have it hunt me at every turn. It is a plague burned into my flesh and my soul." I think my first thought was "Well.. that was poetic. Nice intro!" It immediately hooked me in -- "burned into flesh and soul? Really? Soul? I want to know more about this soul you speak of..."

I think people often relate that first statement to the second one about "I saw you casting spells inside..." -- Yet, he says the first line even if Hawke is not a mage and there is no mage in party. I took it as a generalized statement about how the hunters keep finding him. How his master keeps wanting him back, and won't give up. I never related it to my Hawke as the thing that was "hunting him." I think sometimes people take what Fenris says too personally when really he isn't trying to be personal with his statements at all.

Which is why I think that he is far less of a bigot than most people claim him to be. At least, that's how he always came across to me. Even with my mage Hawke, I never felt a lot of animosity from Fenris directed at Hawke. He seems to be very accepting of mages who are not a threat, who can behave themselves and actually... help. Sure, he hates (corrupted) mages in general, but not those mages he knows in particular, and who have proven to be not dangerous. He would never want them all dead or made tranquil, as do Meredith or Sir Alrik (he nevers says somehing like that, does he? I might have missed a lot about Fenris, though) . I always felt that his attitude is very sensible, after all mages *can be* immensly dangerous if corrupted. That shows quite a  high level of fair discernment, considering what he has been through...

[Arquen]

You are indeed correct Naqey. He doesn't hate mages at all, actually. He hates magic and magisters.

Most famous quote lays it out: "For every mage such as you, Hawke, there are a dozen more too weak to handle their power. Them, I fear, as should you. As should anyone." -- Then he goes on to say "But what's important now is moving forward." -- He pretty much tells HAWKE in Act 3 to STFU about magic. That dialogue floored me. Seriously, the tolerance he shows and the actual capacity to understand mages and where they come from instead of hating them outright is astounding.

He is a bigot, but he is also a careful bigot, and very aware of his own beliefs and constantly keeps his hate under control so it does not consume him and turn him into an all out vengeance, attack every mage on sight because they ALL MUST PAY FOR WHAT THEY DID TO ME kind of person. People tend to see that in his character, but it does not exist.

Just because he is very opinionated about mages doesn't mean he is prejudiced toward them. He always understands that there are good men and women who are mages. His problem is that he has never met any, and the ones he has met seem to be abominations waiting to happen. This includes Anders (who is already an abomination in his eyes) and Merrill (who is walking down the path he has no doubt seen many apprentices take in Tevinter).

So I will accept the term bigot, but I will not accept that he has some blind hate for mages. He does hate magic. Even his own "magic" is a curse inflicted upon him by magisters. He focuses it to that. Danarius did this to me -- I hate Danarius. Hadrianna did this to me -- I hate Hadrianna. Need for power and magic does this, this, this, this, this, and this, in Tevinter, in his travels, and even in Kirkwall. -- "Is there anyone whose life has been touched by magic that actually benefits?"

[berelinde]

Arquen wrote...
"Is there anyone whose life has been touched by magic that actually benefits?"

Dunno. He doesn't complain about all those healing spells he needs. Seems to me that if he wanted to take the moral high ground on that point, he should refuse all magic cast upon him, even healing spells. His Tevinter Fugitive skill tree could have included the means of preventing magical healing, but it doesn't. Ironic, really. He claims that no one benefits from magic, but he does, during every major battle.

[Tashash]

I'm with Arquen and Naqey.

One thing I think people forget is Fenris' reaction to Feynriel. Sure, he thinks that he would be better off in the Circle rather with the Dalish - but considering his only example of a Dalish mage is miss ''But Demons are helpful!'' I can't really blame him. He cautions Hawke to be wary, but he never outright says to just kill him.

And even after the Fade Fenris only says that they will have to wait and see what Feynriel becomes - even if you sent him to Tevinter!

Fenris at least gives the benefit of the doubt to mages that he has no suspicion of dabbling in the darker magics.

[Arquen]

LOL, that statement always gets attention. It follows the statement about "Look at what happened to your mother, look at the life you've had to lead."

To me it isn't so much a generalized umbrella of all magic. Even Fenris admits "magic has its uses." The way I interpret it is that people whose lives have been affected by magic -- not just getting healed but where it has been a part of their lives -- do they actually benefit? Actually being the key word. I don't think it is a statement about the uses of magic, but the impact of magic itself.

As for the whole healing bit and his markings. He does not hesitate to use them. He decided that a long time ago, and he cites his hypocrisy in doing so. Realizing that without them he wouldn't have been able to win his freedom. That is the hypocritical side of Fenris. It isn't something he can really help. After all the Lyrium isn't his choice, but he chooses to use this "magic" curse while at the same time hating how it was forced upon him. Ironic moreso than hypocritical.

[Arquen]

As for Feynriel -- Fenris will actually feel empathy for him if you tranquilize him. He is NOT happy about it. Saying "The boy met a sad end. One I hope you took to heart. Many mages meet such a fate."

That in itself proves how tolerant and understanding he can be. He doesn't just cackle maniacally and go "ONE less mAGE!" -- He feels sorry for him. He feels sorry for Ketojan. He has empathy for mages because of the people they are. Judging them on their person and not so much on what they are.

[SurrealSadi]

Tashash wrote...

Arcane_Solona wrote...

Okay, some of you might disagree with me, but listen to the following song by Gideon Emery called "Let there be love" and tell me that isn't Fenris singing while cooped up alone with Hawke in his "borrowed" High Town mansion:

http://www.youtube.c...u/3/3IM4Tvl9jfo

Oh my, squeee! I think I just died from that.... X _ X

I squeed too. Which is embarrassing to do in front of a parent.

[darkrose]

Arquen wrote...

LOL, that statement always gets attention. It follows the statement about "Look at what happened to your mother, look at the life you've had to lead."

That's where it's a good thing that Julian is incredibly patient, because his immediate response to that--which he always bites back, is--"Don't you ****ing dare throw my mother in my face."

To me it isn't so much a generalized umbrella of all magic. Even Fenris admits "magic has its uses." The way I interpret it is that people whose lives have been affected by magic -- not just getting healed but where it has been a part of their lives -- do they actually benefit? Actually being the key word. I don't think it is a statement about the uses of magic, but the impact of magic itself.

Julian would never presume to tell Fenris that magic is inherently good; if he had a chance to respond, he'd say that he can't really judge that because being a mage is part of who he is. If there were some way to make him not be a mage any more, even if he wasn't Tranquil, he still wouldn't be the same person.

Ironically, Malcolm Hawke would agree with Fenris, though he taught his children that magic was a gift, one that came with a responsibility to use it wisely. Legacy makes it clear that he'd have prefered not to have 2 out of his 3 children be mages.

[darkrose]

Naqey wrote...
Which is why I think that he is far less of a bigot than most people claim him to be. At least, that's how he always came across to me. Even with my mage Hawke, I never felt a lot of animosity from Fenris directed at Hawke. He seems to be very accepting of mages who are not a threat, who can behave themselves and actually... help. Sure, he hates (corrupted) mages in general, but not those mages he knows in particular, and who have proven to be not dangerous. He would never want them all dead or made tranquil, as do Meredith or Sir Alrik (he nevers says somehing like that, does he? I might have missed a lot about Fenris, though) . 

He never says that all mages should be dead or Tranquil, but he's quite clear that he doesn't have an issue with Meredith, even in Act 3 when she's gone completely nuts. And he doesn't approve if you tell Ella to run away and don't send her back to the Circle, even after we've just seen that at least some Templars are abusing their authority. At some point, I want to do the post-"Dissent" fic where Fenris actually calls Julian on letting her go, and Julian, for the first time since they've known each other, rips Fenris a new one.

[Nashiktal]

berelinde wrote...

Arquen wrote...
"Is there anyone whose life has been touched by magic that actually benefits?"

Dunno. He doesn't complain about all those healing spells he needs. Seems to me that if he wanted to take the moral high ground on that point, he should refuse all magic cast upon him, even healing spells. His Tevinter Fugitive skill tree could have included the means of preventing magical healing, but it doesn't. Ironic, really. He claims that no one benefits from magic, but he does, during every major battle.

I think you have to take that line and remember that he has lived most of his life in tevinter. From his perspective all magic is ruinious. It is powered by the life of others, souls are just coin to be traded when convenient for the mage and flesh is but a vessle in which to hold said mage's hellspawn.

Things are quite different outside of tevinter of course, while mages are still dangerous they come from quite a different culture when compared to the magisters and other blood mages. Outside of tevinter mages are bound (for the most part) in cirlces, and in circles they are kept in what is essentially a bording school where mages are taught magic and research magic but with intense scrutiny and accountability.

We also must remember that kirkwall is essentially the entrance to hell. As such, blood mages are very prevelant there. Which also reinforces fenris' opinion that magic is dangerous. If outside the lands where mages rule (and torture), mages are imprisoned... Then mages must indeed be bad, at least to fenris' perspective.

Like most concepts bioware comes up with, its not black and white.

[Naqey]

Arquen wrote...

To me it isn't so much a generalized umbrella of all magic. Even Fenris admits "magic has its uses." The way I interpret it is that people whose lives have been affected by magic -- not just getting healed but where it has been a part of their lives -- do they actually benefit? Actually being the key word. I don't think it is a statement about the uses of magic, but the impact of magic itself.

Interesting interpretation... but then another quote goes "what has magic touched that it doesn't spoil?" That sounds pretty much like it included whatever magic, to whatever use it is put. Even if it is not really part of people's lifes, but something seemingly as harmless as a healing spell.

[Arcane_Solona]

Arquen wrote...

As for Feynriel -- Fenris will actually feel empathy for him if you tranquilize him. He is NOT happy about it. Saying "The boy met a sad end. One I hope you took to heart. Many mages meet such a fate."

That in itself proves how tolerant and understanding he can be. He doesn't just cackle maniacally and go "ONE less mAGE!" -- He feels sorry for him. He feels sorry for Ketojan. He has empathy for mages because of the people they are. Judging them on their person and not so much on what they are.

I never made Feynriel Tranquil, so I'm really surprised that that's what Fenris says if you do tranquilise him. Now I admire him even more. Again, it shouldn't come as a surprise that I totally agree with you, Arquen. He really is emphatetic and understanding, and behind all that hatred he harbours for mages, he still has a beautiful heart which feels for the plight of others. I'm sure deep down he understands that its not mages' fault that they were born that way and that they have to suffer for "an accident of birth" as Bethany so aptly puts it. But at the same time, spending his entire life in Tevinter... it really is no wonder he fears mages and is constantly wary around them, also constantly urging Hawke to do the same. 

Its funny that you brought up the manic cackle and the "one less mage" bit, because that reminded me of Anders' horrid reaction if you ever decided to betray Fenris and hand him over to Danarius (which I NEVER did and could NEVER do; saw it on youtube). He thinks its an excellent idea. Now that attitude, I have a problem with.

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 06 octobre 2011 - 02:13 .

[tankgirly]

I actually had a small crush on Feynriel and hope BioWare will make him return in DAIII.

[darkrose]

tankgirly wrote...

I actually had a small crush on Feynriel and hope BioWare will make him return in DAIII.

Have you done the rescue quest in Act 3 now that it's been fixed? It's pretty hilarious.

[tankgirly]

darkrose wrote...

tankgirly wrote...

I actually had a small crush on Feynriel and hope BioWare will make him return in DAIII.

Have you done the rescue quest in Act 3 now that it's been fixed? It's pretty hilarious.

I know!  I nearly fell out of my chair when the girl claimed Feynriel had saved her in the Fade. Gosh, that was completely unsuspected!

[Arquen]

First.. at work so can't quote.

@Naqey- that statement is also stated in heated, uncontrolled rage. He knows it is not true. Hawke's *raised eyebrow really?* face confirms it to him that he is losing it. He excuses himself right after it "I should go..."I then later says "I was not myself." So I don't take it as a truth he believes more a statement said in anger reflecting something else. That something being Hadrianna and his sister. Finding out about her and "who knows what the magisters have done to her.. !" Then blurting out that line. Context is important when analyzing dialogue. People tend to forget that.

Also, he may not have an "issue" with Meredith, but he isn't cheering the Templars either. He says in Act 3 "I dont care a fig for her!" It is his belief though that "she is the only one holding back the madness in this city." Which I lol at... crazies leading crazies.. indeed Fenris.. indeed. He will sideis with the Templars because he feels it is better to control the chaos and madness than to let the mages go and become completely free with nothing to prevent them from doing what they want.

He says "I oppose what they hope to become." In his eyes they hope to become powerful and dominate the people who try to stop them.

[Naqey]

Arquen wrote...

@Naqey- that statement is also stated in heated, uncontrolled rage. He knows it is not true. Hawke's *raised eyebrow really?* face confirms it to him that he is losing it. He excuses himself right after it "I should go..."I then later says "I was not myself." So I don't take it as a truth he believes more a statement said in anger reflecting something else. That something being Hadrianna and his sister. Finding out about her and "who knows what the magisters have done to her.. !" Then blurting out that line. Context is important when analyzing dialogue. People tend to forget that.

Hm... I was actually wondering whether I should refer to the context of that statement since it is indeed said in a situation of emotional turmoil. But I really know Fenris so little, I wouldn't know when he says things in earnest and when he says things because of the heat of the moment, but doesn't mean them.

But that's why I come here. I want to learn more about him. I want to understand him. I do this in the hope that if only I come to understand and like him enough, it will enable me to one day do his romance to the very end without falling into the "Anders trap"  on the way xD 

[Arquen]

Lmao... that's why I go to the Anders thread! Unfortunately, 6 months later and 8 Hawkes later still haven't done that Andersmance, lol.

Fenris is a very logical, thinking, speak before you open your mouth kind of guy. That being said he also has a sea of rage and emotion he tries to bottle and hide. "This hate.. it's a dark growth I can't ever get rid of." When he makes outbursts it is unbridled anger. His emotions turn into words, and most of the time they are not things he means. It happens with Hadrianna most of all. Even Danarius he isn't raging at Hawke. He sounds bitter and blunt and angry at times in his banters, but Hadrianna is the full front anger "I was not myself." "You didn't deserve my anger."

I have spent a ridiculous amount of time studying and re-analyzing Fenris. I feel like I know him quite well. Though everyone has different interpretations. Those differences are why I like discussing him so much. Lol.