55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Arquen]

Dammitt.. I was working on Tank's birthday present and now I have to go to work tonight. I missed ALL THIS MESS!?

*JI#O#UJFJROII#)JFSJFKJ!!!*

I have to go so have to make this super short. Basically, I've said my piece on that "oppression" statement a bajillion times. Check the Fenris hate thread .. I pretty much went over it again.. and again... because people ALWAYS cite it as the "hate and blindness" statement for Fenris against mages.

He says "it is more like a prison" -- Fenris will not, can not, won't and just nuh uh see the Circle as an equivolent to slavery. Oh yes, throw the "but you can convince him by saying the I thought you were against slavery line in end game." Yes, but besides being an inferior WTF response it is also appealing more to Fenris's loyalty. At least in my interpretation I see him go -- I will stand with my friend. Not "Okay slavery is wrong and mages are slaves .. yeah okay.. " -- It just doesn't come off that way. It comes off more as appealing to his loyalty to Hawke -- "I see these people as abused and mistreated and your going to abuse and mistreat them more?" -- "Ok, I can see your point Hawke. I'll join you."

Also, Fenris doesn't get all happy when you send people to the circle. He says nothing about it either way. My whole "magic not mages" thing comes from the fact that throughout the course of the game he makes that distinction himself a few times. The scene in the gallows I have fine tooth combed and bookmarked because he lays it all out there. "Magic has its uses" "I don't doubt some are good and honorable men" -- He doesn't approve of Feynriel being Tranquilized -- he feels empathy for Ketojan. "What is the alternative? Who rules the mages?"

His quip to Anders is great too after Anders says the dialogue about The Chantry doesn't speak for the Maker or Andraste -- "Neither do you." I fail to find a genuinely good example of "mage hate" out of Fenris. Magic, sure.. Magisters.. hell yes.. ALL mages? -- don't see it.

Crap I really have to go -- sorry this is half-baked...

FUUUUUUUUUUU TOP ummm .. uhhh.....

http://arquen.devian...649707#/d417hds
by Celebrian13 on DA

Modifié par Arquen, 09 octobre 2011 - 03:18 .

[Sir Edric]

Arquen wrote...
FUUUUUUUUUUU TOP ummm .. uhhh.....

http://arquen.devian...649707#/d417hds
by Celebrian13 on DA

Are those. . . feathers?


I bet Anders is pissed right now.

[berelinde]

Nice. Looks like a tarot card. That is intended to be complimentary, since tone of voice doesn't come across real well over the internet.

[Heidenreich]

sagequeen wrote...

so, i've been following this discussion for the past few pages...

yeah.

i'm working my way through the da2 possibilities/romances, etc. i've even spoilerfied the fenrismance a bit by looking it up on youtube and then thought, no, bad girl! wait until you get there with this char.

anyhow, it seems to me that if you friend fenris, he mellows out a bit, is more content, seems to have a friend and is able to move on a bit more. however, i've also heard this path tends to leave fenris enabled to go on hating magic/mages without seeing how the evils of slavery/imprisonment applies to them, too.

on the other hand, i've also heard that isn't the case. i've also heard that rivalry is 'better' for changing his mind. i like the idea of 'we respect each other's differences' on the rivalry, i don't like the 'agree to disagree' that comes with it (i.e., fenris goes on being angry, hawke comes off being disregarding of the dangers of magic.)

anyhow, i'm trying to make a 'fair' mage: willing to see the circle has it's place, down on oppression where it really exists, though. honestly, i'm inclined to support the templars in some key things (like grace and her 'act of mercy' friends - may end up sending them back to the circle, the crazy lot of them; anti blood magic and why are we letting keran become a templar again?) i'm sure i can easily manage a friendship with fenris, since i half agree with him. still, not sure if i want to, because i would love to see him open his mind a little here (just a little).

anyhow, your thoughts? if you did both friend and rivalmance, which did you feel ended up making the two of them appear to meet on a middle ground (or is that impossible?)

It really just depends upon your preference. Fenris' friendship and rivalry have very little to do with his opinion of Mages. It has directly to do with his opinion of Hawke.

A Friended Fenris .. is a Friend. He seems less angry with a Friended Hawke. He's .. more attached, so to speak. He puts Friend Hawke on a pedestool. 

A Rivaled Fenris.. is a respected comrad. He doesn't agree with Hawke, but he knows that Hawke is sane and capable and trustworthy. He's more in-grasp with his anger, because a rival hawke doesn't let that **** slide.

Its.. just a personal preference. I love Friend-Fenris.. and I love Rival Fenris <3

[Nilfalasiel]

Arquen wrote...

I have to go so have to make this super short. Basically, I've said my piece on that "oppression" statement a bajillion times. Check the Fenris hate thread .. I pretty much went over it again.. and again... because people ALWAYS cite it as the "hate and blindness" statement for Fenris against mages.

He says "it is more like a prison" -- Fenris will not, can not, won't and just nuh uh see the Circle as an equivalent to slavery. Oh yes, throw the "but you can convince him by saying the I thought you were against slavery line in end game." Yes, but besides being an inferior WTF response it is also appealing more to Fenris's loyalty. At least in my interpretation I see him go -- I will stand with my friend. Not "Okay slavery is wrong and mages are slaves .. yeah okay.. " -- It just doesn't come off that way. It comes off more as appealing to his loyalty to Hawke -- "I see these people as abused and mistreated and your going to abuse and mistreat them more?" -- "Ok, I can see your point Hawke. I'll join you."

Also, Fenris doesn't get all happy when you send people to the circle. He says nothing about it either way. My whole "magic not mages" thing comes from the fact that throughout the course of the game he makes that distinction himself a few times. The scene in the gallows I have fine tooth combed and bookmarked because he lays it all out there. "Magic has its uses" "I don't doubt some are good and honorable men" -- He doesn't approve of Feynriel being Tranquilized -- he feels empathy for Ketojan. "What is the alternative? Who rules the mages?"

His quip to Anders is great too after Anders says the dialogue about The Chantry doesn't speak for the Maker or Andraste -- "Neither do you." I fail to find a genuinely good example of "mage hate" out of Fenris. Magic, sure.. Magisters.. hell yes.. ALL mages? -- don't see it.

My point was that Fenris argues from an almost exclusive standpoint of "Tevinter is bad". He may agree that some mages are good people and magic may have uses, but they're more of an exception to a rule, and it always comes back to "but look at Tevinter". Even when his opposition is NOT arguing in favour of Tevinter. It's a little difficult to discuss things when your opponent's trump card is "give them a finger and they'll bite off the arm, there's no other possibility". It's not necessarily hate, nowhere did I actually mention the word "hate" (although I know this isn't specifically directed at me), it's more along the lines of immediately assuming the worst. Of course, you can argue that it's because he's been accustomed to seeing the worst of people in general and mages in particular, but refusing the possibility that there is a workable solution in between oppression and world domination...well, that's not really going to solve any problems, is it? Again, I'm saying this while being in complete agreement that absolute power + large destructive capacity = disaster.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 09 octobre 2011 - 03:53 .

[Madame Rose Crimsynn]

*Marches in with giant platter of cookies on my head*

Hey guys! Have I missed anything important? I'm kind of lazy to go back and check right now because my computer is being a... mean, mean, mean bugger with a napoleon complex and refusing to run something (FUUUUUUUUUU--!) so I'm taking a few moments of a break to calm down.

[sagefic]

Heidenreich wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

so, i've been following this discussion for the past few pages...

yeah.

i'm working my way through the da2 possibilities/romances, etc. i've even spoilerfied the fenrismance a bit by looking it up on youtube and then thought, no, bad girl! wait until you get there with this char.

anyhow, it seems to me that if you friend fenris, he mellows out a bit, is more content, seems to have a friend and is able to move on a bit more. however, i've also heard this path tends to leave fenris enabled to go on hating magic/mages without seeing how the evils of slavery/imprisonment applies to them, too.

on the other hand, i've also heard that isn't the case. i've also heard that rivalry is 'better' for changing his mind. i like the idea of 'we respect each other's differences' on the rivalry, i don't like the 'agree to disagree' that comes with it (i.e., fenris goes on being angry, hawke comes off being disregarding of the dangers of magic.)

anyhow, i'm trying to make a 'fair' mage: willing to see the circle has it's place, down on oppression where it really exists, though. honestly, i'm inclined to support the templars in some key things (like grace and her 'act of mercy' friends - may end up sending them back to the circle, the crazy lot of them; anti blood magic and why are we letting keran become a templar again?) i'm sure i can easily manage a friendship with fenris, since i half agree with him. still, not sure if i want to, because i would love to see him open his mind a little here (just a little).

anyhow, your thoughts? if you did both friend and rivalmance, which did you feel ended up making the two of them appear to meet on a middle ground (or is that impossible?)

It really just depends upon your preference. Fenris' friendship and rivalry have very little to do with his opinion of Mages. It has directly to do with his opinion of Hawke.

A Friended Fenris .. is a Friend. He seems less angry with a Friended Hawke. He's .. more attached, so to speak. He puts Friend Hawke on a pedestool. 

A Rivaled Fenris.. is a respected comrad. He doesn't agree with Hawke, but he knows that Hawke is sane and capable and trustworthy. He's more in-grasp with his anger, because a rival hawke doesn't let that **** slide.

Its.. just a personal preference. I love Friend-Fenris.. and I love Rival Fenris <3

ah, i see. okay, that is very helpful.

though i'm not sure i understand what you mean by "in-grasp with his anger"? you mean he is more aware of his anger? because i had heard that rival-fenris is just really angry all the time

[Annarl]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

As is my wont, I prefer a compromise.

I felt like the DA:O elves were fine, but too understated. I liked the character of Merril fine, but I did feel the elves were overly serious in general. That was, I think, part of why my Mahariel fell so quickly for Alistair... because while I really enjoy the premise of the Dalish in Origins, I'll agree that their actual gameplay is a bit boring compared to some of the other origins.

On the other hand, the DA2 elves are too exaggerated. If you like Fenris, don't assume you like male elves: Fenris is a substantially bulked up version of the default male elf. And look at Varania and Orana... I don't think they're particularly cute at all, which, to me, indicates that it's a lot harder to make cute NPCs with the current elf model. Merrill, Fenris, and Orsino are fine, but I think I preferred the look of non-companion elves in DA:O. I think that dialing it back to something a bit more subtle, midway between the two styles, would be best.

As for Merrill, I like cute stumbly people, don't get me wrong... but it would have been interesting to see her adapt to her environment, and become a little more self-confident and secure by the end of the game, if they wanted to tie her in to her original version in DA:O. It would have made it more believable that she was the same person, and it would have made her less of a moe stereotype.

Oddly, my first Bioware romance video game love was... Kaidan, and now he barely pings my radar. Then came Garrus, who is still my favorite, then Alistair, Zevran, and finally Anders, Fenris, and Isabella.

I agree about the elves.  The Origins felt okay to me but if they wanted to change them to make the elves more distinct I am okay with that too.  The only thing I will say is I think now the elves are a little too skinny or slight in build I guess would be a better way to describe it....especially the arms.  And Fenris does seem to be a large elf.  I like Merrill a lot but at times she does feel a little too naive.  But I try to remember what a shock the change in environment must be for her and usually that helps me relate to her.

Bioware writes good characters, love or hate them.  I can't really say I have ever hated any companion written by Bioware.  I maybe disappointed by certain aspects but I won't waste my time hating them.  I love Anders...I was disappointed by his romance.  I didn't care for Isabela's romance either but l lover her.  She can still make me giggle. I don't hate Jack, (ME2) the Bioware character I am most neutral about, I think she needs serious help.  My favourite romances are still Morrigan and Zevran's.

Modifié par omearaee, 09 octobre 2011 - 05:07 .

[Annarl]

Heidenreich wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

so, i've been following this discussion for the past few pages...

yeah.

i'm working my way through the da2 possibilities/romances, etc. i've even spoilerfied the fenrismance a bit by looking it up on youtube and then thought, no, bad girl! wait until you get there with this char.

anyhow, it seems to me that if you friend fenris, he mellows out a bit, is more content, seems to have a friend and is able to move on a bit more. however, i've also heard this path tends to leave fenris enabled to go on hating magic/mages without seeing how the evils of slavery/imprisonment applies to them, too.

on the other hand, i've also heard that isn't the case. i've also heard that rivalry is 'better' for changing his mind. i like the idea of 'we respect each other's differences' on the rivalry, i don't like the 'agree to disagree' that comes with it (i.e., fenris goes on being angry, hawke comes off being disregarding of the dangers of magic.)

anyhow, i'm trying to make a 'fair' mage: willing to see the circle has it's place, down on oppression where it really exists, though. honestly, i'm inclined to support the templars in some key things (like grace and her 'act of mercy' friends - may end up sending them back to the circle, the crazy lot of them; anti blood magic and why are we letting keran become a templar again?) i'm sure i can easily manage a friendship with fenris, since i half agree with him. still, not sure if i want to, because i would love to see him open his mind a little here (just a little).

anyhow, your thoughts? if you did both friend and rivalmance, which did you feel ended up making the two of them appear to meet on a middle ground (or is that impossible?)

It really just depends upon your preference. Fenris' friendship and rivalry have very little to do with his opinion of Mages. It has directly to do with his opinion of Hawke.

A Friended Fenris .. is a Friend. He seems less angry with a Friended Hawke. He's .. more attached, so to speak. He puts Friend Hawke on a pedestool. 

A Rivaled Fenris.. is a respected comrad. He doesn't agree with Hawke, but he knows that Hawke is sane and capable and trustworthy. He's more in-grasp with his anger, because a rival hawke doesn't let that **** slide.

Its.. just a personal preference. I love Friend-Fenris.. and I love Rival Fenris <3

I agree.  Both paths have merit and it is just a personal preference.  I always try to let my Hawke's personality and views on the world determine how the relationship evolves.

[tankgirly]

Madame Rose Crimsynn wrote...

*Marches in with giant platter of cookies on my head*

Hey guys! Have I missed anything important? I'm kind of lazy to go back and check right now because my computer is being a... mean, mean, mean bugger with a napoleon complex and refusing to run something (FUUUUUUUUUU--!) so I'm taking a few moments of a break to calm down.

Nah, nothing really important.




by super talent aimo. Her birthay doodle for Mr. Emery is now officially on his wetsite.


*sigh* I am officially running out of money. Not it seem like I won't be able to get the DLC for another week. Damn.


BREAKING NEWS: MR EMERY JUST POST THIS LINK ON HIS FB PAGE, ABOUT THE LINEUP ON LONDON MCM. LOOKS LIKE HE'S NOT THE ONLY DA CHARACTERS THERE!

LONDON MCM LINEUP

Modifié par tankgirly, 09 octobre 2011 - 08:58 .

[UltiPup]

I'm naughty. I bought and installed MotA already. Gonna play that tomorrow :3

[Ulaume]

Just delurking to say CulturalGeekGirl I so enjoy reading your posts, in both this thread and the Anders one. You put across views and ideas I share with a lot most clarity and eloquence than I am able to do now (damn neurological illness) so it's always great fun to read debates you are involved in Almost makes me want to get involved in the Mass Effect fandom just to enjoy all the discussions that go on there too
Ok, creepy, internet debate-stalker mode off now

***
I love the style of that picture up there that was likened to tarot card art, it reminded me of that too. Makes me really want a deck, or partial one, of DA characters. Another fandom I'm in had one created officially (well it actually never got finished, but it was awesome); I tend to just like them for the art style rather than the intended function.

It is so awkward trying to use a phone to post on this forum, no wonder I lurk >.<

[Ulaume]

jlb524 wrote...

I honestly haven't been following this thread at all (these are my only posts in it).

My impression from playing the game is that he chose to to undergo some ritual in order to become more powerful and this resulted in the markings. He obviously wasn't aware of all the consequences...but the desire for more power through magic seems evident to me from what his sister says in Act 3.

He always claimed that they were against his will (b/c he didn't remember anything prior to getting them) but it seems that he wanted them from what Varania says in Act 3.

Ramante wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
"Did Fenris know about the ritual? Or just the boon?"

Just the boon. Even if he'd known about what was going to be done to him, he wouldn't have known what that meant.

I think the fact that he seeked a 'boon' from mages (blood mages)....well...he had to do it to achieve more power.

Wha-?  He was slave - a slave is a tool for their master and as a slave, one's body does not belong to oneself, it is the property of the master.   This mentality is purposefully imprinted upon them, they are trained to become so they have no will, desire or thought beyond serving their master fully so anyhing Fenris did while he was still in this mindset would not have anything to do with him wanting to gain power for himself.   If he wanted more power (which, thanks to the clarification by DG, we know he didn't as he didn't even know of the ritual and wouldn't have understood the implications anyway) it would have been to better serve his master, not for himself.

The boon was the only way he could hope to make sure his family had a different kind of existance to his.  One can be totally compliant and subservient without any will to escape or to change things, whilst still realising there could be a better life.  So, what he couldn't do for himself (at that time) he could do for his family.

His sister is very bitter, she implies she has not had a great time of it despite it seeming as though she has done ok for herself (I'd imagine that being a newly freed slave initially would have been hell in Tevinter and, I think it'd be safe to assume by what we learn of Tevinter through the game, she still has to tow the line now or have nasty things happen) and what she says is basically what has already been said up there ^, albeit omitting a rather major detail as she wants to lash out at him.  Or she may actually believe what she says.  Either way, he competed for the markings indirectly, ie: he competed for the boon (for his family) not knowing of the ritual.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

My theory... which still fits with the Gaider revelations... is that Fenris knew that something he might consider "positive" was going to be given to the winner of the competition, but he did it largely to free his family. At the same time, though, he probably spun it to them as a win-win situation. "You guys get your freedom, and I get whatever the winner gets, which is probably to become a slave with higher value."

I never thought that he knew exactly what the ritual entailed, that would be ludicrous. But the idea that he might be magically enhanced in some way doesn't seem like it would be completely inconceivable. I don't think he would have had access to any details, though. For all he knew, Danarius might have just wanted the strongest mundane bodyguard.

Then again, I don't know why everyone assumes that Varania "did OK for herself."

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 09 octobre 2011 - 11:08 .

[Ulaume]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Then again, I don't know why everyone assumes that Varania "did OK for herself."

I just assumed that as she is an apprentice to a magister (I think? I can't actually remember now) and that seems like it might be better than being a slave, but clearly still isn't great.  She does seem to think it would have been better to have remained a slave though, so perhaps she has had, and is still having, a worse time in her current situation? No idea.

I'd guess that most people think she has done alright for herself as the thought of slavery to most is so abhorrent that anything seems better, ignoring that many forms of non overt slavery exist that could be worse than the more traditional concept of slavery, perhaps.

[Ulaume]

'the idea that he might be magically enhanced in some way doesn't seem like it would be completely inconceivable'
I agree with that, and also think becoming a slave with higher value would have been the most likely expectation that Fenris would have had for the benefits of the winner of the competition, aside from the boon.
I just didn't find how jlb524 implied that he wanted power and was well aware of all of it etc to be very a likely scenario.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Ulaume wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Then again, I don't know why everyone assumes that Varania "did OK for herself."

I just assumed that as she is an apprentice to a magister (I think? I can't actually remember now) and that seems like it might be better than being a slave, but clearly still isn't great.  She does seem to think it would have been better to have remained a slave though, so perhaps she has had, and is still having, a worse time in her current situation? No idea.

I'd guess that most people think she has done alright for herself as the thought of slavery to most is so abhorrent that anything seems better, ignoring that many forms of non overt slavery exist that could be worse than the more traditional concept of slavery, perhaps.

She isn't an apprentice to a magester... that was what was offered to her that seemed better than her current lot.

All we know is that Hadriana tells Fenris where she's living and that she's a servant, not a slave. Then we learn that she works as a tailor. However all the information we have about her... any impression we might have about her ability to change jobs or have personal mobility, may well be part of Danarius's trap

It seems logical to me to assume that she's had rather a crap life, with nominal freedom but being paid poor wages, having to watch her mother work herself to death, and pretty much being subject to the hiring and firing whims of Magisters. I'm also pretty sure that Danarius has been using his influence to control her life for at least as long as Fenris has been free... if I were an evil magister, I'd certainly do it. It'd be cheap, too... paying someone to fire a servant is probably much cheaper than buying a slave.

[Ulaume]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

*things*

That seems likely   I have clearly not devoted sufficient thought to it, but it seems kind of obvious it'd be something like that now you say it, haha.

Does Fenris realise it I wonder?  I haven't played that part of the game for ages, just doing another play through at the moment, in act 2 so far.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Fenris... doesn't care and doesn't want to think about it. She sold him out, that's all he cares about, he wants to kill her.

It's another thing on the long, long list of things my Hawke wants to make him think about. She wishes they hadn't chased her away, that they had spoken with her, found out more about her. But Fenris had an idealized idea of what family would be like, and when that ideal was shattered... he was incredibly hurt, and we all know how Fenris reacts to pain.

The instant Fenris found out she had cooperated with a magister against him, she was effectively dead to him. No extenuating circumstances would change his mind. And I empathize with that, I really do. But even if it didn't mean actual forgiveness, learning what caused her to do what she did could be useful.

But she wasn't the revelation, the instant sense of family and belonging that he expected, and he's too feral and broken to be able to adapt to that kind of thing. He had built a city on the idea of love and family, and when it came crashing down there was nothing left but rage.

[Arcane_Solona]

berelinde wrote...

Nice. Looks like a tarot card. That is intended to be complimentary, since tone of voice doesn't come across real well over the internet.

A fact I only know too well. Look at the previous page and you'll see pure evidence of that.

And it does look like a tarot card! Imagine having your fortune read to you and then BAM! That card is the last one left. I think I'd squeeeee soooo loud, everyone in Dragon Age 2 would hear me and Anders would go like "Oh... guess I don't have to blow up the Chantry after all. Someone's already done that for me!:lol:"

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Hmm. I'm now trying to figure out which tarot cards everyone in Dragon Age represents. I think Fenris is the Knight of Swords, as would seem appropriate. Varric is the King of Pentacles, and Anders the Knight of Wands.

Justice is Justice. The Warden is Strength. I'd have to get out my book to do the rest of them.

(Ugh, why is the internet such a terrible source of correct tarot interpretations? I have a book based on the history of Tarot somewhere in all of my still-packed boxes.)

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 10 octobre 2011 - 01:27 .

[Arquen]

Lol... its why I love that pic. Reminded me of a tarot card or an illustration inof a book. MAKER... super busy at work .. again no way to jump into this fully.

My thoughts on Varania are pretty clear around here. I absolutely have no sympathy for her. I completely support Fenris making his own decision there. If there was some actual evidence to support her life being controlled and the whole "I had no choice" was proven fact than I might find some empathy in the cackles of my black heart. As is I have no qualms killing her. Her needling speech about the markings is not for Fenris's benefit.. it is a twist of the knife. At any time she could have offered to help kill Danarius. She could have joined team Hawke, but she didn't. She cowared behind Danarius' skirts and waited for the outcome. I just.. don't care about her.

As for "Tevinter is bad." I agree it isn't so much about hatred as it is about logic. He often says "in my experience" to support his "I give them an inch they take a mile" stance. He sees mages as mostly weak, with dew exceptions. That isn't exactly wrong. "For every mage like you Hawke..." When confronted with "still blaming magic" or "the circle doesn't work" he asks for an alternative. He places the burden of proof on you as a legitimate question. Im sure if there was actually some compromise he would not be opposed to it as long as it didn't allow for mages to rule mages because yes,Tevinter is the only example of that and Yes, Tevinter is bad. Yet I agree with him that complete mage freedom will inevitably lead to strong mage wins power which leads to an Imperium society. The most frustrating thing is that you can't offer an alternative. As is the way of Thedas there is no compromise- or at least not one provided.

MRC!!! Hi! Come back more often, dammit!

[Arquen]

Oh forgot to chime in about markings....

I never thought it was a power thing. Gaider confirmed he knew nothing of the ritual so even if some "magical enhancement" term was thrown around he wouldn't know what that meant. It seems his only motivation was the boon for his family. I don't buy into the selfishness inherent in these "but he thought there was something in it for him, too." What was in it for him was the boon. "Just the boon." As gaider said.

[Heidenreich]

I could have bought it.. I sawe ithe link, it worked.. and I totally didn't do it because I was like "WUT IF IT GETS ME IN TROUUUBLEEE"

*sob*

Ah well, guess i'll wait till tuesday.

[Sealy]

Unf, I actually may have a crush on Gideon Emery that rivals Hawkes crush on Fenris. The man is seriously hot. That didn't come out of nowhere either, just saw his pic beside Fens on the MCM lineup. Didn't know where to look the longest.