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[Nilfalasiel]

omearaee wrote...

I meant that all the offspring would look more human and not elf like. I think the question arose over Alistair and Fiona.  Because if she is his mother then why didn't he look like an elf and Gaider response was along the lines that the offspring would always look human.

Not sure about the whys, but its his world I guess.  Personally, I would like to see half-elves but not halving them is a typical and makes the DA world different then say D and D.

Well, yes, but right now, there seems to be internal inconsistency on this point. Because you can clearly tell Feynriel has elven blood, even if he's considered human. Alistair has none of those traits. He has the facial and bodily structure of a human and human ears. If they were trying to justify that Alistair IS Fiona's son after all, then there's some major confusion going on.

Edit: I was waiting for that to happen



Fenris finds the idea that Danarius could be his father...disturbing.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 22 octobre 2011 - 03:44 .

[Annarl]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

DahliaLynn wrote...

Nilfalasiel wrote...

DahliaLynn wrote...

Was casually lurking through this thread and first thought that came to mind was....Danarius having these ears could suggest that maybe he is Fenris' father? i.e. Vader style? Of course this could be off the wall, but Mr. Gaider did mention a special connection a while back if I recall. Then again I could be completely wrong. (feel free to let me know how wrong I am )

Edit: I could really go out on a limb here and say, perhaps Danarius had bastard children with an Elf mother, so in order to hide it he turned him into his own slave child, instilled him with "Magic" lyrium and turned him into his personal public prize?

Once again, I'm writing in the "Fenris experts" thread, so I was just trying out a theory. You guys would know much more than I do here  

I don't think that's possible. Both Fenris and Varania look like full-blooded elves: long pointy ears, straight "greek statue" noses, large green elven eyes, thin slender-limbed bodies (even though Fenris is taller than the average male elf). If there was any human blood in the mix, chances are they'd have had some visual cues for it. I do, however, think that Fenris and Varania could have had different fathers, considering how different they look. 

Speaking of eye colour, is that also part of the elven appearance retcon? Because it does seem like the overwhelming majority of elves has green eyes now (with a rare occurrence of blue). I don't remember that from DAO. There's also the fact that Merrill's eyes magically changed from blue to green.

My thinking was,  an Elf and a Human will produce a Human, what would an Elf and a Half Elf produce? I would think a certain percentage could realistically exhibit Elven dominance in physicality. 

Danarius (according to the ears) may have the Elf recessive trait, making it logical that his children could be both born as Elves. 

Edit: @Ursulacousland Fair enough. I haven't followed every comment DG made about their connection, so I tried throwing the idea out there after reading the most recent find...since it could make for an interesting twist. 

Gaider recently said "[...] though you might also want to include in that understanding the fact that this has much more to do with magic and almost nothing to do with genetics." in response to complaints about the genetic impossibility of the children of and elf and a human being for all intents and purposes human.

So basically, forget recessive and dominant.  It sounds to me like a half-elf (who is effectively human, aside from some vaguely elvish hints to their features) would likely have human children with an elf, since it's not genetics, it's ~magic~. 

I missed your post as I was posting.  And that is what I vaguely recollected from the Alistair conversations. 

[Annarl]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

omearaee wrote...

I meant that all the offspring would look more human and not elf like. I think the question arose over Alistair and Fiona.  Because if she is his mother then why didn't he look like an elf and Gaider response was along the lines that the offspring would always look human.

Not sure about the whys, but its his world I guess.  Personally, I would like to see half-elves but not halving them is a typical and makes the DA world different then say D and D.

Well, yes, but right now, there seems to be internal inconsistency on this point. Because you can clearly tell Feynriel has elven blood, even if he's considered human. Alistair has none of those traits. He has the facial and bodily structure of a human and human ears. If they were trying to justify that Alistair IS Fiona's son after all, then there's some major confusion going on.

Edit: I was waiting for that to happen



Fenris finds the idea that Danarius could be his father...disturbing.

I agree.  They may have change this with the change to the elves too.  They should stay consistent.  Or maybe Fiona isn't his mother.  Who knows..well Gaider does I guess:lol:.

And Danarius being Fenris' father is more than distrubing but you know I wouldn't put it past him...he's that...creepy.

[Heidenreich]

I think you guys are thinking to hard about this. Feynriel looks elfy because he was raised by an elf and so we associate him as an elf with a human father. Alistair was raised by humans, and is the son of a king..

You also have to remember that there could be any number of reasons for the differences, up to and including that Feynriel's father was actually a elf-blooded child as well.

There are no "half elves" in Thedas. Just Elves and Humans and Elf-blooded Humans.


Also, at the end of the day, its just a different art style ;p

[Nilfalasiel]

Heidenreich wrote...

I think you guys are thinking to hard about this. Feynriel looks elfy because he was raised by an elf and so we associate him as an elf with a human father. Alistair was raised by humans, and is the son of a king.

You don't exactly get pointy ears just from being raised by an elf though...Had we not known that his mother was an elf, his face would still look different from your run-of-the-mill human.

Maybe we are thinking too hard, but I find it a little annoying when lore turns out to be self-contradicting. If all offspring of an elf and a human are supposed to look human, then stick to that. Don't just make an exception for Alistair. Or, as things may stand, for Feynriel.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 22 octobre 2011 - 04:15 .

[Reinara]

@Nilfalasiel: Just my two cents, but you should also consider the fact that DAO had limited faces and models. I mean, for a long time people were speculating that Anders was another illegitimate child of Maric because his face model looked so similar to Alistair and Cailan, and according to the Word of God, the dude who gives you the Crime Wave quest in DAO was also an elf-blooded human, and he didn't have elven features either, so there's that.

[Nilfalasiel]

Reinara wrote...

@Nilfalasiel: Just my two cents, but you should also consider the fact that DAO had limited faces and models. I mean, for a long time people were speculating that Anders was another illegitimate child of Maric because his face model looked so similar to Alistair and Cailan, and according to the Word of God, the dude who gives you the Crime Wave quest in DAO was also an elf-blooded human, and he didn't have elven features either, so there's that.

True, good point, which also goes with the fact that elves in general looked less...alien, for lack of a better term, in DAO. But the DAO engine could make pointy ears. Also, you could argue that Slim Couldry's ears are somewhat pointier than a human's. Although, to be entirely fair, that could just be the screenshot angle. My rogue Warden hasn't gotten to Denerim yet, so I've never met the character before. I'll pay special attention when I get to him.

However, you could also argue that pointy ears are not a systematic result of elf/human pairings. Since we only have Feynriel and Danarius as examples to go by, it could be plausible.

[Vlad_Dracul]

My theory is, that if Fenris was a girl, 95% romances are with her, no matter what gender you are, or you Hawke is.

Modifié par Vlad_Dracul, 22 octobre 2011 - 06:06 .

[CuriousArtemis]

*reads above posts* I agree that Feynriel looks like a fairly fugly elf hybrid ... thing xD He has the pointy chin and a too, too, too long face. He definitely does NOT look human.

[Friera]

I decided to flirt with Tallis throughout my playthrough with Fenris as friendmance. Just simply LOVE the

T: "I must say Im a little jelous of you *looks at Fenris*"
F: "Just keep your distance".

*squeeels* Thats loove !


Hmm, drawing a Fenris piece right now.

[AbsoluteApril]

Nilfalasiel wrote...
I do vaguely remember something from genetics class about there being a "shared" type (where dominant and recessive traits were equally shared), but for one, it was in French, so I have no idea of the terminology in English. And two, it was rare, and the example we had were flowers...

Yes that is mendel's genetics. Co-dominant inheritance where two traits blend to form a new trait (red and white flowers making pink). I only know this because of breeding reptile morphs.

I also never noticed Denarius had the pointed ears! interesting

[Sealy]

I agree with Heiden, this is being over analyzed. The elf-blooded humans look different in this game for the same reason the elves look different. New art, new ideas. In the first game we don't meet any story line based elf blooded humans, so there was no reason for them to distinguish their differences. We don't really know Feynriels entire bloodline though.

As far as Alistar goes possibly the Therin bloodline just overrode any elven features. Who knows. I am more then happy just believing Alistar's elfy-ness manifests in the form of hairless chest.

Oh, oh oh, um no. There is no way Danarius is related to Fenris. Bioware can walk the edge of "OMG", but they never completely fall in. There is no possible way Gaider would be like "Well their relationship may be sort of, kind of rape-y, use your bad imaginations, now times it by ten muhahahahaha" waits for all of us to die of revulsion and then say "Oh yah and he is Danarius' son!"  Thank you projectile vomit. The Danarius, Fenris being related plot line may be stepping a little far into crazy head canon land for me.  

Modifié par Fleshdress, 22 octobre 2011 - 08:32 .

[Yankee23]

Fleshdress wrote...

Oh, oh oh, um no. There is no way Danarius is related to Fenris. Bioware can walk the edge of "OMG", but they never completely fall in. There is no possible way Gaider would be like "Well their relationship may be sort of, kind of rape-y, use your bad imaginations, now times it by ten muhahahahaha" waits for all of us to die of revulsion and then say "Oh yah and he is Danarius' son!"  Thank you projectile vomit. The Danarius, Fenris being related plot line may be stepping a little far into crazy head canon land for me.  

Unless there was another quote I missed, the "*cough*intimate*cough*" comment was pretty vague. Perhaps he used that word simply to imply something beyond magister/slave (father/son?) and not necessarily the other stuff.

[Nilfalasiel]

Yankee23 wrote...

Unless there was another quote I missed, the "*cough*intimate*cough*" comment was pretty vague. Perhaps he used that word simply to imply something beyond magister/slave (father/son?) and not necessarily the other stuff.

Well, what else could it refer to though? I wouldn't use the word "intimate" to describe the relationship between a child and their parent...It's a pretty weighted term, no?

[UrsulaCousland]

Yankee23 wrote...

Fleshdress wrote...

Oh, oh oh, um no. There is no way Danarius is related to Fenris. Bioware can walk the edge of "OMG", but they never completely fall in. There is no possible way Gaider would be like "Well their relationship may be sort of, kind of rape-y, use your bad imaginations, now times it by ten muhahahahaha" waits for all of us to die of revulsion and then say "Oh yah and he is Danarius' son!"  Thank you projectile vomit. The Danarius, Fenris being related plot line may be stepping a little far into crazy head canon land for me.  

Unless there was another quote I missed, the "*cough*intimate*cough*" comment was pretty vague. Perhaps he used that word simply to imply something beyond magister/slave (father/son?) and not necessarily the other stuff.

Oh I definitely agree. 

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 22 octobre 2011 - 09:55 .

[Yankee23]

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Yankee23 wrote...

Unless there was another quote I missed, the "*cough*intimate*cough*" comment was pretty vague. Perhaps he used that word simply to imply something beyond magister/slave (father/son?) and not necessarily the other stuff.

Well, what else could it refer to though? I wouldn't use the word "intimate" to describe the relationship between a child and their parent...It's a pretty weighted term, no?

It's definitely a weighted term. I'm inclined to think that DG used it on purpose to not give away too much.

[Arcane_Solona]

Arquen wrote...


Warning: SADNESS -- FOR SCIENCE! -- "Leaving was the hardest thing I've ever done..." I believed him before, but after seeing that.. now I REALLY believe him. It isn't so much in the words, but the way he says them, and that look, Maker! that look...

Maker... the way he says "I need to leave"... he totally, totally wants to cry. Oh, my poor, poor Fenris! I can't believe it! He was already so conflicted and worried about hurting Hawke, and then this! I can really picture him with his face tear-stricken, quickly making his way back to his mansion, where he bolts himself in his room and truly cries his heart out. My heart is literally aching! 

Once again, you were very brave to have done this, Arquen. Like I said before, I don't think I'd ever be able to do it. *wipes tear from eye*.

[Arcane_Solona]

@Yankee23- Your profile picture (if you call something that moves a picture) made me gasp, made my eyes go bug-like, and made me squee! IS GIDEON EMERY REALLY THAT UNBELIEVABLY FIT, TONED, HOT, DEFINED, SEXY AND PERFECT???Well, of course he is, the evidence is right there! And is that a real tattoo??? Or is that a scene from a movie??

I think I'm going to faint *face falls flat on keyboard*

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 22 octobre 2011 - 11:22 .

[Arcane_Solona]

As to Danarius being Fenris' father, I really just don't see any possibility of that being true. Yankee and Nil are right-- "intimate" is most definitely a weighted term. I would never use it to describe the relationship between parent and child. *shudders at the very thought* Incest much?

[Arquen]

LOL, I don't know if "brave" is the right word. My heart broke... I needed some therapy afterwards. Consoling myself with Gwenya and fraps scenes. The way he says it.. and the face he makes... I just... his heart literally breaks right in front of you. It is almost as hard as the Anders break-up. I'm sorry, but that "you USED me?" line is so horrible. After he tells you he loves you... gahhh. Still, the second worst (and not by much) HAS to be Fenris. He's about to leave you, yes, but he obviously cares about you, and is just being a coward. I always knew this.. and then Hawke says "I didn't want anything else..." I winced.. I did. It hurt my heart... I wanted to take it back so bad. I just tried to tell myself to be objective.. LOL.

You guys.... we bring up Danarius' ears and of course the discussion goes to fatherhood *facepalm*

It actually has come up before (what hasn't?) and I just can't get on board with it. One, because of the half-elves looking nothing like full-blooded elves and I tend to lean more toward the full blooded elves have full elven looking children while elf blooded humans have human looking children. There is not one instance of a half-elven child looking like a full blooded elf.

Feynriel's mother speaks of the Dalish wanting nothing to do with a half-elven child. I'm sure if they could be mistaken for full elves it wouldn't be so difficult to integrate them. As is it seems they either look fully human or have some elven features, but NONE of them look full elf. So, I tend to throw it out the window completely based on that more than anything. I also don't believe Fenris was Danarius' slave his whole life.

I tend to lean more toward Leto was a slave in another magister or person's household and was "sold" to Danarius after the competition. This is mostly based on "we played in our master's courtyard." If it was Danarius -- why would he not have said "We played in Danarius' courtyard?" unless he just didn't want to bring up Danarius by name. To say "our master" when we know that his master is already Danarius seemed odd. It made me think he actually was somewhere else besides with Danarius during that memory flashback.

I also don't accept the *cough*intimate*cough* thing as a firm proof of outright sexual abuse. However, it was in response to a question about "intimate relations" between Fenris and Danarius in the sexual context. "Those of you who thought something was going on between them.. yeah.. you weren't exactly wrong..." doesn't suggest a father/son secret kind of thing. It suggests to me that Danarius is a giant creeper and "coveted" Fenris for more than just his "skills." Though I hesitate to say it was outright sexual abuse, but we have been through that before. Suffice to say I don't think it relates to any "family" ties.

Still... "disquiet" doesn't quite cover it, LOL.

[Allaiya]

Arquen wrote...

2.)
rival Varric is a riot -- He is absolutely horrible to you. I felt so verbally abused. If it weren't for Fenris I honestly would have a hard time finishing that PT. I felt like everyone hated me and only followed me out of fear or because they didn't have another choice. All but Fenris.. at least he respected me .

I have never rivaled Isabella or Varric so I might do those two along with Fenris. I figured Varric being the storyteller wouldn't paint the Champion in a good light if he disliked him/her. lol Now I"m curious though after what you said!

The Fenris breakup is sooo sad. Also when Hawke turns him away when he comes back saying "I've been thinking of you". I was just curious to see what would happen and I felt so bad afterward. He looked so sad.. . I think it shows part of it in this video.

Nilfalasiel wrote...

And to end on a Fenris-related note, I find it ironic that you get all the major companion comments about the romance (well, except the exchange with Merrill about puppy eyes) during the 3-year break, when Hawke and him are presumably not together. I get that they're scripted and occur at the same time for all romances, but it just seems a little weird to have Aveline ask you about how you deal with the danger in your lives, or Varric warn you about crazy, when there's nothing concrete going on. My Fenmancing Hawke was like "well, y'know, I'd like to deal with the danger in our lives, but Grumpy over there needs to air his head first *grumble grumble*". I guess those particular convos fit Merrill and Anders better than Fenris or Izzie, timing-wise.

I agree, it seems out of place. I think there was suppose to be a ‘break up’ convo with Varric asking how Hawke was. I think there is recording for it but I can’t remember where I heard it at.

Modifié par mrfinke, 22 octobre 2011 - 11:47 .

[Arcane_Solona]

Still... the very fact that you chose that option takes A LOT of guts. I keep telling myself "its only a game, its not real, you're not hurting anyone's feelings" but it doesn't work for me. I guess we're all just so connected with the characters on such a real level, it becomes very difficult to disconnect yourself from the story and be objective. I mean, c'mon, how many of us here say "my HAWKE loves Fenris" as opposed to "I love Fenris"? The latter wins by tenfold, from what I've seen.

[Sealy]

Yah I doubt he belonged to Danarius back then, Danarius doesn't seem like a "let the children play in my courtyard" kind of Magister. On that note, I wonder if that means his old master was kind in comparison?

*wants to read stories of pre-Danarius Fenris* Possibly his mother was a slave and mistress to an Elven magister and voila! You get Fenris and Varania, whom he goes easy on because bastard children they may be, but his all the same.

*Oh head canon, go lay down and take a nap.*

[Arquen]

I will tell you.. it was the hardest thing i've done in a game, lol. I can nuke and kill and play a complete psycho, but hand me a character I love and I'm done.

Anyways off to stupid dinner party. I would much rather be here, lol. Sad isnt it? I'll drink some wine and think of you guys, lol.

[UrsulaCousland]

Arquen wrote...

I will tell you.. it was the hardest thing i've done in a game, lol. I can nuke and kill and play a complete psycho, but hand me a character I love and I'm done.

Anyways off to stupid dinner party. I would much rather be here, lol. Sad isnt it? I'll drink some wine and think of you guys, lol.

I think we can all drink to that!  (thanks Sandara):