Last time jumping into this.. LOL.. promise!
To clear a couple of things up -- I know about Zevran's slavery and history and past, and I agree with all the horribleness and brutality and conditioning and etc. he suffered. I said as much in my post.
That being said I was trying not to delve off topic into Zevran analysis. Since that wasn't the point. To clarify my statement about Zevran being a slave. He was sold to the Crows, but became an assassin. He was not a "slave" in the sense that Fenris was a slave and that is the context and definition I was using. A Tevinter Slave to a Magister would have been more "correct" I suppose. Once again I realize everything about Zevran, but the point is exactly that I agree here with everyone about the bottom line -- they are NOT comparable as characters.
Their comparable history is that they are both elves, and both went through some crappy situations where they had no control over their lives. That can pretty much be said for ANY character in the Dragon Age universe. From Alistair to Anders. They all have been handed lemons.. that's kind of the point of Dragon Age isn't it? So when I come across this "Zevran got over it" kind of comparison I just get.. irked... as I said. I don't like the comparison, and apparently that is agreed?
The other major difference is the autonomy -- as I said. Zevran had a gilded cage -- Fenris had a cage made of iron bars spiked with lyrium that he had no thought of even attempting to escape from. Zevran, while still a "slave" to the Crows had choices, and Freedom. Freedom within his role in the Crows -- How he was going to complete a mission. Who he was involved with during the mission. What his approach was going to be. Zevran had and used frequently very basic autonomous and critical thinking skills that were part of his training and his personality.
This is something that is not a part of Fenris's history at all. Even after the Fog Warriors he was still stuck in a slave's mentality so much that he did not know how to act outside of his master's will. I don't think Zevran's situation with Rinna is comparable because he had closed off his heart and he made a choice. The rest was bravado. He said himself that he had bragged about being the best assassin and taking on the worst missions. Not because he wanted to die at that time, but because he wanted the renown and the power associated with that. Rinna is a Zevran discussion though. Suffice to say that it was a tragic occurrence and one that changed Zevran forever, and one he will regret forever. And yes "wrong" is the right word, and it is what sent him to his spiral of wanting to leave the Crows one way or another. In all reality through death, and that's how he ends up with the Warden in the first place.
With the Fog Warriors Fenris had no choice because he didn't even know what choice was. It just.. isn't comparable. Other than a general sense of "it was bad because of the way they were trained and brought up." The Fog Warriors are something that changed Fenris too, and something he will forever regret, but to say that because they both had that "one big regret," and therefore are similar does not compute to me. You don't compare one kind of traumatic situation to another. You don't compare one person's personal tragedy to another person's. For the simple reason that everyone is different, and with the lives these two led.. they are about as far apart as you can get in terms of personality, situations, and personal motivations for doing what they do and acting how they act.
I'm not trying to belittle Zevran's hardships at all here. When I say he had free will and autonomy I'm not talking in grandiose terms of freedoms and liberties and that Zevran had all of these things, and was free to do whatever he wished. Zevran was a prisoner to the Crows, and yes, a slave to them in some ways. I don't equivocate that to a life of a slave in Tevinter to a Magister. What's more I definitely don't find it comparable to a slave who had his memories wiped by a lyrium ritual and remembers nothing except being a slave.
Zevran's situation and life are incomparable to Fenris because of the basic human autonomy that was allowed to Zevran and denied to Fenris. Incomparable because Fenris's situation is completely different from Zevran's, and because they are different people. Saying they were both in bad situations and horrible/traumatic/tragic places in their lives does not automatically make them comparable. You could sit here and use that comparison for every one of the characters if that was all that is necessary to draw a similarity. Hence, I do not compare them because to say one situation was like another situation just belittles the personal story of both characters.
I just try to avoid turning this into a Zevran thread -- people tend to go off on that tangent, and that isn't the point. The point is simply that I do not agree that Zevran and Fenris should be compared. What is more I find it difficult to understand when people blame Fenris for having such a poor outlook and taking such a long time to "get over it" and "make lemonade" when Zevran already is smooth sailing and such a more happy and "silver lining" person when he's gone through similar tragedy. That's where I get irked.
But I suppose enough of that.. I have said my piece on the subject.
Oh, and last thing about the flirt because I found it rather funny...
Except how often do you go telling a complete stranger that they're handsome unless you're intending to flirt with them? I can understand complimenting a friend or an acquaintance on their appearance, but for those first flirts, Hawke and Fenris have literally just met. And while he does say that his markings must appear strange, he has also just crushed someone's heart for calling him a slave. I wouldn't be so very ready to associate that topic with flirtation right off the bat.
A complete stranger who just offered you their service, and who you are trying to get to know. The whole point of the flirt is to kind of feel him out a bit, and tease him a bit. It isn't a jab at his slavery. It has nothing to do with his slavery or his markings or anything. I find it completely non-offensive. And yes, I have been guilty of saying "your quite handsome" to someone I just met because it was the truth. It wasn't overly flirtatious on my part, it was just a statement, LOL. Hell, I didn't even mean it as a flirt -- it was an offhanded comment to the guy. It really is nothing intended -- a simple flirt that isn't even a flirt -- just a true statement. One Hawke -- who is intrigued by this handsome weapon elf would put out there to see what the response would be.
Also, this:
To be honest though, you are justified in yelling at him for setting you up. There's nothing to get offended at. But still, I wouldn't trust myself to know his tells and his triggers or just how far I can go without offending him from one conversation after seeing him kill a guy (and a bunch of others, judging by the state of that bleeding guard). Of course, the more you talk to him, the more you realise that he's not easily offended, but I'd rather be certain of that before I go making those comments. Maybe I'm just overly cautious, but I fully believe in "better safe than sorry". Or "better safe than dead", as the situation would have it.
I completely agree here, and that is what I was trying to say. You are justified in yelling at him, and your being honest with him, and he responds WELL to that. You've seen him kill someone.. your not stupid, but you also know that his trigger is probably Tevinter hunters, his former master, and people in general trying to kill/hunt him, and calling him a slave is obviously a no go. "A magister's lost property, namely myself.." He makes a jest about his own slavery, and does the eye-roll as well to cement it. All suggestions of someone who isn't exactly going to take a harmless comment about "waste of a perfectly handsome elf" as some kind of backhanded insult about slavery or as if it was making fun of his situation. I don't know, maybe I'm just a more quickstudy of people like that. I speak my mind as well, regardless. He just offered me his services, he promised me he would repay me. I helped him out with this personal matter. He's revealed personal information to me already about himself, albeit not much. It did not feel like he would be angry or try to kill me or something if I said he was handsome, LOL. It wasn't like he was even a stranger at that time per say. He was a new comrade who I was going to be spending time with, and wanted to know more about.
OK OK.. I promise no more wall of texts --- I'll try
Retour en haut
whenever I see someone complaining that the three year gap is completely unrealistic because no one is that patient/can go without sex that long. It's not really that unlikely. 
