55380 réponses à ce sujet

[sagefic]

@ sia: I think the pride thing is WHY Fenris has such a hard time with it.

It actually takes a LOT of pride and guts to say 'i love you, whatever you may say to me in return.' you have to respect yourself a lot to stand up and say that, regardless of what the other person might say back. and i think fenris would much rather push hawke away than take the chance that hawke might look at him, raise an eyebrow and then go, 'Nah...' and walk away.

so i guess i think he's posturing at pride, not that he really has a lot of it. he's rightfully proud of what he's accomplished, but in his vulnerable moments, you see how much he regrets all the things he is and what he's done.

which, i guess, technically, makes it vanity, which is caring about how others see you, rather than pride, which is more how you see yourself (um, yeah, been re-reading pride and prejudice, yet again). if you take him (Without merrill), into the fade, his point of temptation is being free, once and for all. i think that until he's not threatened with the spectre of being forced back into his old life - being forced into another 'i killed the only people who were ever nice to me on danarius's say-so' he can't really move on.

i dunno. i guess in my head, i think that he really can't be with hawke until he faces down his old master, and rather than falling back into his old role, he fights his past and can really move on.

and yes, i think it would hurt him badly if you move on. my rival-mance hawke, i ended up having her throw a fit and move on to anders. fenris acts friendly enough, but i get tones that he's hurt badly. my friend-mance hawke took all kind options and the 'i just wanted to be happy' totally had me doing puppy eyes at the computer screen. there was no way in heck she was going to move on from that.

also @ sia: you must PM me when you finish this. i want to read it!

oh, um, edit. do you do top-o-page fenris here? here, have a buggy flying fenris:

Modifié par sagequeen, 28 octobre 2011 - 03:15 .

[Sialater]

Well, I PM'ed you right now, so you need to go look.

[AbsoluteApril]

I guess I never saw it as a breakup but just that he needed time to sort himself out. Plus the fact he then starts wearing the favor shows Hawke he really does care even if he has pushed away. One of these days I'll have to try a PT where Hawke 'moves on' but I know it's going to be tough.

Arcane_Solona wrote...
To all the artists in the thread, could you please tell me the name(s) of the programs you use to make all your drawings? I draw the old fashioned way and I love how the computer program drawings turn out, so I'd love to get one. I wanna share my art too!

I'm not much of an artist so not one to give a lot of advice about this, but I'm trying out digital art for the first time as well. I draw the outline on paper, scan it in and then color using Photoshop CS. I don't have a tablet, so all done with the mouse (urgh). I found this general guide very useful for starting out and getting a nice crisp outline to use for coloring: http://www.howtodraw...dillon/cg1.html

There are some useful videos on youtube but a lot of crap ones as well (where people do the art but don't really explain how they are doing layers, etc). My favorite general art tips guides are from Mark Crilley but it's mostly traditional art  http://www.youtube.c...ser/markcrilley

This was my 2nd try, posting for shameless promo plus.. it's Fenris in Finery!
I've obviously still got a lot to learn about shading, lighting etc...

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 28 octobre 2011 - 03:44 .

[Annarl]

ladyshamen wrote...

Good morning! It's almost 4 AM here. Thought I'd start the day with one of my Fenris-y pics. Sorry if it's been posted before!

I have never seen that picture before and just must say...it is awesome!  Really, Fenris and chocolate...Nice!

[sagefic]

Sialater wrote...

Well, I PM'ed you right now, so you need to go look.

okay

[UrsulaCousland]

Sialater wrote...

It must REALLY irk him if s/he moves on to Anders or Merrill, then.

But, in all seriousness, I'm just trying to get a better grasp of his character since he'll be one of the POVs in my DA2 project. (Trying something new with structure. I figured BW can experiment, so can I.)

I guess I just don't grasp the self-esteem thing. Because he doesn't act like it. He seems more prideful than anything.

That's just it, though. Some of the people who seem the most prideful or full of bravado on the outside are the ones who feel least secure in their own worth or value as a person.

I think of it this way.  For all of the life he remembers, Fenris has been constantly reminded that his worth only goes as far as his markings and his ability to follow orders, no matter how heinous. I don't think anyone before the Fog Warriors and later Hawke has given him cause to question that. 

Hawke has to be confusing. Even leaving the romance out of it, Hawke fundamentally challenges Fenris's worldview and his opinions of himself. Especially if you rival him (from everything I can tell; I haven't rivaled him yet), Fenris gets everything he ever thought about challenged.  I think one reason he reacts so angrily at times is because he just can't wrap his head around the challenges to how he's always seen things.  To him, it's world-altering and life-changing to suddenly realize that he has some worth and value besides what he is. It's a time of challenge and growth for him, and there's a reason that a certain phenomenon is called 'growing pains'.

To suddenly be confonted with that past, to have a chance to destroy one of the worst agents in destroying any self-worth he might have had, starts Fenris down the path of being strong enough to step into this on his own. If you let him kill Hadriana, he realizes that he broke his word, but killing her is so empowering that he starts to believe his life can become. Hawke is right after all!

In turn, that is so emotionally earth-shaking that it really sets his emotions turning. Fenris tries very hard to be stoic, but I think this gets past his considerable self-control. All of a sudden he's either slamming Hawke against the wall, coming back driven to be with him/her, and then getting further emotionally rattled by the night they spend together. 

"It's too much. This is too fast!"

I believe him, and you can just hear the heartbreak in his voice when he leaves. He regrets that for a very long time, and it's clear from the reconcillation dialog that he spends a lot of time on it. In the meantime, he expects Hawke to move on. I don't think he grasps how Hawke can ever really view him in a "positive" light again (romance wise). When Fenris realizes that he cares enough for Hawke to love him/her (or realizes that he does love Hawke), I think it's too much for him to hope for that Hawke would forgive him for the kind of emotional pain that night brought to him/her.

When Hawke stands with him against Danarius and with Varania (no matter her fate), I think it's pretty graphic evidence that Hawke still cares enough to back Fenris through such difficult events. It may be the last step that pushes Fenris to realize that not only does he have worth, Hawke obviously thinks he does too. Fenris struggles with the reconcillation/apology convo the whole time because the entire situation, including potential forgiveness, is so beyond his experience that he's emotionally flying blind.

Oh good lord, an Ursula wall-of-text. 

TL:DR: I don't think it's pride necesarrily. I think it's an emotional battle for Fenris to move beyond what he's perceived is right for his entire (remembered) life so far.  He also can't conceive of someone actually forgiving him for inflicting such grievous emotional pain.

The rest depends on how you interpret your Hawke. For some, this means moving on. For others, this means varying degrees of Hawke realizing just how deep the damage goes, or just how much they care about their relationship with Fenris, in order to see the whole thing through.

Personally, canon!Hawke actually forgives him long before he asks for it, but she still wants to make sure she understands his motivations. 

(Loved the latest chapter of Paragon, btw.  )

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 28 octobre 2011 - 03:59 .

[Sialater]

(Thank you! I plan on upping the angst in the next one. Hope you like that one, too.)

I guess I'm just having trouble NOT seeing him interfering in Act 3 if a Hawke who moved on to Anders, gets, well... emotionally manipulated.

[sagefic]

UrsulaCousland wrote...

Oh good lord, an Ursula wall-of-text. 

i found it insightful, actually.

@ sia: i think it depends on fenris, hawke, and anders. i dunno. i always felt like fenris half-expects hawke - esp. mage hawke - to run off and be with anders. the convo with fenris/anders/izzy where fenris and anders are 'fighting over' hawke sounds like that to me. again, i keep thinking that a number of people expect hawke to move on. when he/she doesn't, and is still there to hear fenris out years later, i think no one is more surprised than fenris.

[ColaQueen]

boink!

[Arquen]

WALL-O-TEXTing --- due to old posts included 

I have to agree with the distinction as well that I can't simply put past the memories or the fact that Danarius is still out there hunting him. He also admits to being a coward in Act 3, and so while it does take him a long time to realize these things I think the time of 3 years is understandable to get there. He goes for it with Hawke after Hadrianna, but realizes that there will be more hunters, and Danarius himself to deal with still. 

I don't think it is simply because he is afraid of Hawke hurting him or letting Hawke in. That is part of it, no doubt, but Fenris relies on Hawke and does trust/respect Hawke enough to go for it with him/her. The problem lies when the memories come up, and the past haunts him, hunts him, and deliberately forces him to realize that he is still not free. 

Until he is free he doesn't feel like he can focus on happiness, and Fenris is that kind of person who wants to deal with things himself. He trusts nobody with his problems, and he feels like he burdens people when he does "whine" about them. He also concentrates on finding his sister, and doesn't even tell Hawke about that until she is there. He is doing a personal quest to recover a bit of himself, and he doesn't include Hawke because he doesn't want to burden him/her. Also, because he wants to do it for himself. Your dealing with a person who is still finding their individuality and therefore doesn't want someone else to solve their problems for them. He has to figure out what his past means to him on his own.

To me that night is mostly about Fenris realizing that he has started something he can't control, and yet he still is stuck in the past. The memories just reinforce that, and he is trying to come to grips with that. It is "too much, too fast" as he says. It is a simple statement, but I completely understand where that is coming from. It is rooted in realization that he has dragged Hawke into his life, and moreso, that Hawke now has some kind of hold on him. He can't accept Hawke's help because he doesn't know what Hawke is supposed to do for him. He isn't sure what he is supposed to do for himself at this point. He leaves because it is the best option he sees at the moment for himself, and Hawke.

The most heartbreaking thing is when he is standing by the fireplace, and Hawke wakes up, and he turns and gives that little smile. He really wanted to be happy, but he had already made up his mind, and so he is just living in the moment, and smiling. It is like a flash, but so much in that expression. Just like the one after Varania.. where he turns away and closes his eyes, collects himself, then turns.

I just like to read between the lines a lot with Fenris. Though I do agree with you I think there is more to it than that.

and

Alright so this is a really hard question to answer, but I think it boils down to self preservation and self defense mechanisms. Hawke and Fenris continue to work together, be friends/rivals/companions, after that night. While it can be different for everyone how "hurt" your Hawke actually is by him leaving there is no doubt that him leaving does hurt Hawke in some way. Being left is never easy.

Now, as far as the not talking about it. 1.) It brings up painful emotions that Fenris does not want to have to face. 2.) His plan is to remain stoic and focus on himself for a while and so he buries his feelings for Hawke. Even though I imagine he regrets his decision from the moment he leaves because his feelings DON'T go away like he thinks they will in time. 3.) He is deliberately pushing Hawke away to protect himself, and honestly and simply just does not want to go there in a conversation because he doesn't know what to say to make it better or easier. I go back to what he said after Leandra dies "To be honest, I don't think there is much point in filling these moments with empty talk." -- He is very bad at serious, emotional talks, and to talk about that night without knowing how he feels about it, and what the long term plan is just isn't something he can find himself capable of doing.

Now, as far as well why can't they work it out, take it slow, allow Hawke to be there for him. He basically does that thing where he protects Hawke by forcing the decision that he is simply not worth the trouble. He doesn't want Hawke to be dragged along in his personal struggles. He doesn't want Hawke to be there doting on him, pitying him, feeling sorry for him while he works out his inner demons. He doensn't believe that is fair for Hawke. After all, he dragged Hawke into his life, and while Hawke chose to help him, Fenris doesn't want Hawke to be burdened with it. He already owes Hawke a debt for helping him in the beginning. He pledged his service, and intends to keep that pledge as long as he is needed or called upon. Yet, when he makes that decision to leave Hawke he believes it is better for both of them. He thinks he is protecting Hawke, a little hurt now, less hurt later. "Only, it isn't better." 

There are things that people have to figure out for themselves. That doesn't mean that Hawke can't be his friend, or still be there for him even as a rival. He just doesn't want the relationship because he has to figure himself out first. He was ready for the relationship (he thought) before the memories jolted him back to reality. He is also punishing himself for doing that to Hawke, and part of that is having Hawke hate him. If Hawke hates him then maybe she/he will be able to move on from him, and maybe he will be able to stop feeling the way he does about Hawke.

Dug up my old posts on the subject since I don't really have much to change about it, LOL. Page 1692 and some around 1700 or so.


The things you guys seem to be omitting, and I cannot, are the memories. His memories resurface and "for a moment I could recall all of it, and then it was gone." Hawke "doesn't realize how upsetting this is." Which, to be honest, is a VERY upsetting thing. Fenris was baited with items from his past, and it is clearly important to him. His family, and any hint of them. Hadrianna says "I know Fenris..." and then tells him about his sister. There is more at work in him leaving Hawke than simply his own feelings. The memories coming back were something he could not have controlled, and it just magnifies and adds to everything else.

Also, I don't think he "loves" Hawke at that point. The "love" doesn't really come until much later in my head. He may be "in love," but I don't think there is a point where he is ready to admit that it is true love. Also I don't see him being "in love" with Hawke for those 3 years they are apart. He isn't pining after him/her, but still clearly CARES about Hawke. It isn't until at least Act 3 or the Gallows when he would be ready to admit that he "loves" Hawke. Honestly, I believe that he doesn't really understand what he is feeling throughout Act 2, and while it may be him "falling in love" - he isn't willing to call it "love" until much, much later. I don't think he has a sudden realization of "I love you" on that night. It doesn't make sense to me that he would leave if that was the reason, but everything else, and all his issues, and sorting out his past and how he feels about that. That makes more sense than running away from "love."

Modifié par Arquen, 28 octobre 2011 - 10:14 .

[Arcane_Solona]

Everyone's insight here has been very... well.. insightful. And yes, I'm with you there, Arquen. His memories had a huge part to play that night with Hawke. I think that's what terrified him the most, because before that, he was all hot and bothered and so hungry (for lack of a better word) for Hawke. Its not until his memories flash by momentarily does he completely lose it and freaks out.

Also, I think in Act II, by the time they first spend a night together, its not love, but more of an intense infatuation. I think Fenris was just deeply attracted to Hawke at that point. I'm not saying it was purely physical, because of course it wasn't. But I wouldn't go as far as saying it was love at that point. But unlike you, Arquen, I actually think that Fenris began falling in love during the 3 year gap and was already completely in love with Hawke by the time they reconcile in Act III after "Alone".

As for my Hawke(s), she never gets over him. I agree with AbsoluteApril on this one: it isn't exactly a breakup, he just wanted to figure things out in his life. "This is moving too fast!" is a clear indication that this is all very new and intense for him, and he needs to sort out what exactly is going on. He was scared by the novelty and intensity of it all. As far as he knows, he's never been in love before. He's never even liked anyone before. As far as he's concerned, Hawke is his first everything: his first friend, his first kiss, his first lover, and the very first love of his life. The fact that he wears the favour throughout the 3 year gap just accentuates the fact that its not a breakup, its just a break.

@AbsoluteApril- Your drawing is ADORABLE! I love it! You're really good!

[Sialater]

Thank you. Y'all have given me a great deal of further insight into his character.

[Sealy]

In his act three chat he says "The pain, the memories it brought up..." Does that mean his markings still hurt to touch? Making sex pretty difficult? Also if the pain triggered the memories did he remember his childhood? Or more sinister things like the ritual and fight?

[Arcane_Solona]

 Hmm... I'm not sure what he meant by pain. Was it physical or emotional pain? Because he does tell Hawke that sleeping with him/her is better than he ever dreamed it would be, so I'm assuming he really enjoyed it,  and if it was physically painful... I'm not so sure he'd say that. Also, "I remember your touch as if it were yesterday". Again, that implies pleasure and enjoyment. Well, at least to me it does.

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 28 octobre 2011 - 11:18 .

[Cosmochyck]

Arcane_Solona wrote...

 Hmm... I'm not sure what he meant by pain. Was it physical or emotional pain? Because he does tell Hawke that sleeping with him/her is better than he ever dreamed it would be, so I'm assuming he really enjoyed it,  and if it was physically painful... I'm not so sure he'd say that. Also, "I remember your touch as if it were yesterday". Again, that implies pleasure and enjoyment. Well, at least to me it does.

No I inferred the same thing - not physical pain by any means.  I'm thinking more emotional pain, memories he wasn't prepared for, nor inclined to deal with at that moment. 

[Arquen]

He clearly says after the sexytimes that "no, it isn't that.." when you ask about the markings.

DG has also said that the pain with the markings is pretty inconsequential. So, it definitely isn't the physical pain of the markings he is referring too, but the emotional pain and the pain of the memories being brought up. When he says.. "the pain, the memories it brought up..." it is a connecting statement. Almost connecting the pain with the memories. So, i'm going with emotional pain on that one. Since it pretty much is canon that the pain of the markings are something that don't really bother Fenris much, but do contribute to his aversion to being touched by people.

Now.. gotta go work for the next four days.. so going to be kinda scarce... Happy Halloween weekend everyone!

[UrsulaCousland]

Arquen wrote...


WALL-O-TEXTing --- due to old posts included 

[snip so I have room to build another wall. ) ]

The things you guys seem to be omitting, and I cannot, are the memories. His memories resurface and "for a moment I could recall all of it, and then it was gone." Hawke "doesn't realize how upsetting this is." Which, to be honest, is a VERY upsetting thing. Fenris was baited with items from his past, and it is clearly important to him. His family, and any hint of them. Hadrianna says "I know Fenris..." and then tells him about his sister. There is more at work in him leaving Hawke than simply his own feelings. The memories coming back were something he could not have controlled, and it just magnifies and adds to everything else.

Also, I don't think he "loves" Hawke at that point. The "love" doesn't really come until much later in my head. He may be "in love," but I don't think there is a point where he is ready to admit that it is true love. Also I don't see him being "in love" with Hawke for those 3 years they are apart. He isn't pining after him/her, but still clearly CARES about Hawke. It isn't until at least Act 3 or the Gallows when he would be ready to admit that he "loves" Hawke. Honestly, I believe that he doesn't really understand what he is feeling throughout Act 2, and while it may be him "falling in love" - he isn't willing to call it "love" until much, much later. I don't think he has a sudden realization of "I love you" on that night. It doesn't make sense to me that he would leave if that was the reason, but everything else, and all his issues, and sorting out his past and how he feels about that. That makes more sense than running away from "love."

This is why I shouldn't write walls of text from coffee shops when I'm running late and not properly caffienated yet. I omitted one of my major daggone points. *smack self*

What I meant to say is all the emotions that Fenris experiences the day that Hadriana is dealt with, followed by his night with Hawke, basically jars loose whatever emotional or magical (I hold it was an active wipe by Danarius, and not the first - but that part's head!canon) wall(s) that were keeping Fenris from his memories.  That catches up with him at some point during his night with Hawke and starts the whole crisis that sends Fenris running.

I completely agree that it's the memories. I just spent too much time on the catalyst.

Anyway - off to spend most of the weekend board- and card-gaming with friends I haven't seen in ages. Happy Halloween, all!

 <---- best I can do for a costume this year.

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 29 octobre 2011 - 01:47 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Cosmochyck wrote...

Arcane_Solona wrote...

 Hmm... I'm not sure what he meant by pain. Was it physical or emotional pain? Because he does tell Hawke that sleeping with him/her is better than he ever dreamed it would be, so I'm assuming he really enjoyed it,  and if it was physically painful... I'm not so sure he'd say that. Also, "I remember your touch as if it were yesterday". Again, that implies pleasure and enjoyment. Well, at least to me it does.

No I inferred the same thing - not physical pain by any means.  I'm thinking more emotional pain, memories he wasn't prepared for, nor inclined to deal with at that moment. 

Exactly. He just isn't prepared for the memories and the magnitude of the emotions they bring with them. I'm not sure anyone could have been.

I think that little smile when he first turns around (before he leaves) says a lot. I don't think I've ever doubted that there was any (or very much) physical pain associated with the markings at work here. 

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 29 octobre 2011 - 01:53 .

[Arquen]

Ninja posting on break at work...

Basically.. I go with my "he doesn't love Hawke until much later theory" because of 3 things.

1.) He says that it was better if Hawke hated him. If he was realizing that he loved Hawke during that time then he wouldn't focus on getting Hawke to "hate" him. Even if you use the argument that he was doing it to protect himself... if he made a realization during the 3 years away that he loved Hawke he wouldn't say that, and he wouldn't be so distant. If there was some epiphany that Hawke was "the one" he would stop pushing them away at least.

2.) The banter with Merrill in Act 3 after the reconciliation... where she says "Your in Love," and he replies.. "I am not." Now, I know Fenris isn't going to be all open and lovey dovey with his feelings, but that statement is very telling. He doesn't know what love is at that point either, and we are talking act 3 here. He also states to Anders when he says "I love him/her.. you don't know what that means" the angry response of "don't bear your heart to me, mage..." but this is still act 2. Still, while it shows that he is quite hurt/angry I think he is moreso responding to the fact that Anders is kind of right. Yet it seems that while he cares deeply, he doesn't call it love, and this is said in the 3 year gap.

3.) He moves on to Isabela if Hawke moves on. If he made some realization during that time that he truly loved Hawke then he would not be able to move on like that I think. Jumping from a lost first love into another relationship (even though Hawke did too.. though I don't think a Hawke that moves on loves Fenris either) is just very atypical of someone who loves someone else. If we are going by the fact that he does this ONLY if Hawke moves on it still doesn't quite explain how he can realize he loves Hawke in one scenario, but not the other.

Gahhhh work... sorry I had to break then come back to this. So hard to be eloquent from phone with constant interruptions!

[Arcane_Solona]

It really depends on each person's views and interpretations. Here's mine:

1)His "I thought it better if you hated me" just shows how guilty and unworthy he felt of Hawke's love. He felt that he did a terrible thing, walking out on Hawke that night, and he just feels so undeserving of Hawke's love, hence his dialogue. I find no reason why he can't be in love with Hawke just because he felt guilty and unworthy of her/his love. In fact, it just goes to show how much he loves Hawke and how much he feels that she/he deserves better.

2)To me, the "I am not" response to Merrill is just him not wanting to admit it to anyone (least of all Merrill) that he is actually in love with someone. To me, he seems very determined to seem stoic, bitter and independent in everyone else's eyes, and admitting that he loves Hawke would undermine that image and make him seem somewhat softer and vulnerable, especially since he's not in a relationship with Hawke at that point in time. I happen to be that way myself (I'm not at all comfortable with letting people know that I am in love with someone, especially if I'm not in a relationship with that person).

3)Regarding Isabela, firstly, he only moves on if Hawke does. I don't expect him to remain single for the rest of his life just because he loved Hawke at one point. If Hawke moved on, so should Fenris. Its the right and natural thing to do. It wouldn't be healthy for him to pine after Hawke while watching him/her be with someone else. He's already been hurt enough in his life as it is.
Further, I don't see his relationship with Isabela necessarily as moving on. It is very, very clear from the banter in Act III that to Fenris, the relationship is purely physical. Its almost like he's using her for release or a distraction from the problems in his life (which may include his unrequited love for Hawke). You may argue that he could go to the Rose for such a distraction, but maybe to him it feels safer and less "dirty" to sleep with someone he knows (and for free) as opposed to a complete (and maybe expensive) stranger.

That's just my interpretation. No one's is better or more correct than the other's. Different perspectives, that's all (:

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 29 octobre 2011 - 06:11 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Phone posting...

I agree more with Arcana than Arquen, but I can argue all of these things.

Since I'm stuck phone posting, I'll just thank you guys for making me think about it more and hopefully be more eloquent in my head!canon for it.

[Arcane_Solona]

@Ursula Glad I could be of help! Though something tells me a wall of arguments is going to surface as soon as you're back to posting from an actual computer, lol. Looking forward to your arguments (if you intend to post them!).

[Sealy]

Happy Halloween Fen-fans!

Sorta off topic but from the NYCC little tidbit from Gaider!

"Gaider also talked about the controversies surrounding the possible lesbian/gay romances in DA2, stating that the inclusion of these romances should be a "nonissue" and that gaming companies need to move away from the stereotype that gamers are young, straight males." Pulled from People of Thedas.

Oh DG... I love you so!

Also more ontopic.

Tallis is a rogue because a mage's spells were too difficult/expensive to animate in the web series and because if she'd look silly as a warrior.
"[I'd look] like Fenris, with boobs." Felicia Day
"So like Fenris." Mike Laidlaw
 
Owww, words hurt Mr. Laidlaw.



Also, I agre with Arquen, I don't think Fenris knew much about what love was never mind whether he was in it. In act three my mage hooked up with no one, and had not gotten back together with Fen, he seemed fine with it and went whistling into the sunset with Izzy. I think Fenris easily grows to love Hawke after the events of DA but during the three year gap? I have never seen anyone be in love with someone for three years, and also want to not be anywhere near them.

Modifié par Fleshdress, 29 octobre 2011 - 06:35 .

[Arquen]

Important distinction that I think is being missed -- being in love vs. admitting you truly love someone.

I am arguing the latter and not the former. Fenris is very much in love with Hawke, and regrets leaving them. That being said I don't think he is willing to realize or admit to himself until at least Act 3 or even the Gallows that he truly loves Hawke and that this is what it means to truly love another person. You can be in love with someone and infatuated with them and care for them deeply without them being "the one."

So I agree with your analysis of Fenris, but I'm not questioning his love for Hawke only the time in which he admits to himself that it is love. He never says "I love you," because he can't get there yet.

Also, Isabela and Fenris's relationship is a whole can of worms, but if you truly love somebody you aren't going to just move on to someone else. Fenris dislikes prostitution, and sees it as a kind of slavery. He wouldn't go to the Rose. He also wouldn't have sex with someone just for "release." He had to think long and hard (lol) about getting involved with Hawke. With Izzy it would be much the same. He respects her because she is so free. Free with her affections, free with her motives. More than that.. she has a good heart, and she freed slaves . Fenris isn't a physical relationship kind of guy. Ge has respect for who he "wants," and so that is where I start on that "moving on" thing. He has every right to, yes, but if he felt he loved Hawke and admitted it to himself then he would not go to Izzy I don't think. If anything he wouldn't want to risk getting so close to someone again. Though, this is the hardest thing in the world because then we go off topic to Fesabela, lol. I'm not trying to do that. Only clearing up the distinction.

[Arcane_Solona]

@Fleshdress But we don't know that Fenris wasn't anyone near Hawke during the 3 year gap. For all we know, they could've spent the entire gap cooped up together in his mansion or Hawke's, having their reading and writing lessons. Its not all about quests and fighting. They could have spent a lot of quality time together, even if not in the romantic sense of the term. You can still be in love with a dear friend, you know? To me, the fact that he brought up their romance during the conversation after "Alone" indicates that he was just waiting to get this Danarius business over and done with, and as soon as that happened, he went straight back to Hawke's arms. I mean, that look that he gives Hawke when he/she says "I'm here, Fenris"... that's just not a look you give someone you don't have deep and passionate feelings for.

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 29 octobre 2011 - 07:29 .