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[Sialater]

LOL, I think you and I have wildly different definitions of androgynous if you list Jared Leto.


Augh.  ToP

Modifié par Sialater, 22 novembre 2011 - 10:06 .

[Arquen]

Yeah.. I never saw Jared Leto as very androgynous either. Pretty, sure. Like Elijah Wood -- he's pretty, but he's clearly male. He just looks perpetually young, LOL.

Now Tilde Swinton, definitely androgynous, and Andrej Pejic -- he's famous for his androgyny, LOL.

My friend is actually really into androgynous people guys/girls, and likes to tell me about them so I know some of these things. Though it isn't something I am particularly attracted to I don't find it ugly in any way. Those people are so beautiful it is envy worthy, LOL.

Fenris is very clearly masculine, and compared to other elves he definitely is more masculine even than the other male elves. Yet, it isn't terribly hard to tell male elves from female elves either. Except maybe in Jethann's case? LMAO, but even then his build is clearly male. Serendipity likewise is very clearly female with a deep, male voice. Still, she is a female elf, clearly. Even with the voice it doesn't change that she is feminine more than masculine.

So, yeah... don't see the confusion with Fenris being a female.. except perhaps people that just have certain expectations about what males/females should or shouldn't look like. He has delicate/petite/angled features, but he does not look anything like a female elf. *shrug*

hmm.. that TOP is one of my favorite pics... I approve!

[UrsulaCousland]

Sialater wrote...

LOL, I think you and I have wildly different definitions of androgynous if you list Jared Leto.


Augh.  ToP

Oooh. I *love* his eyes in this one (especially).  Of course, that's not all I love about it, but... 

Semi-random question, and if this has been posed before, I apologize. (And I've been here a while, so I don't really have many excuses except 'senior' moments and/or brain overload.)

(And, before I get this out there, Arquen, I want to know your full thoughts too if you have time, but I didn't think of this till after I responded to you. )

We know that Fenris has had to be something of a thief along the way (per DG and his own admission in Act I), but I'm not sure how good he'd be compared to someone who's been trained in stealth and subterfuge for most of their (late teens to full adult, IE Isy or RogueHawke) lives?  I could also see him being more of a 'Breaking and Entering' or intimidation/threat thief as opposed to picking pockets or stealing from open marketplaces, but with enough distraction and darkness, I'm guessing he'd be decent at it.  In that vein, I wonder if the armor, being more hide than metal, might help with that, especially since he's shoes-optional?

I hope I'm making sense. Lack of sleep and brain overload may be starting to get to me. 

[ReiSilver]

I think the armor was custom made for Fenris from his time as a body guard, but it could certainly help with being sneaky being mostly leather and having no metal parts that would clank against each other.
...and my head just went to how Danarius might have made it like that so as not to be noisy and not distract/irritate him/let Fenris fade into the background like furniture when he doesn't want to notice him... I hate thinking those things...
BACK ON TOPIC I do love the Varric/Fenris banter where Varric says the phasing trick would be useful for pick-pocketing and Fenris says he'll try it and see if it helps, which implies he never thought of using it like that before.
I could see him early in his escape grabbing things when no one is looking and just running rather then being stealthy in a rogue-class sense, I could also certainly see him looting the bodies of those sent to hunt him down if he had the opportunity.

[Arquen]

He talks about "when I could steal the coin," and so I'm sure he learned quickly to loot the bodies of the hunters he killed that came after him and to pick-pocket.

We know he can pick-pocket because of the convo Rei mentioned.. the one with Varric:

Varric: So, elf. That thing you do with your hand...

Fenris: I can already tell this isn't going anywhere pleasant.

Varric: I bet that makes pickpocketing easier.

Fenris: I'll try it some time and find out.

So he definitely has experience in stealing and thievery. The stealth is pretty obvious too. As a hunted elf he never stayed in one place very long, and always left a way out for himself. Look at how in his short story he meticulously chose a room with an escape window and all the things he wanted. He has a few "meager" possessions, and travels a lot. Stealth pretty much comes along with that. Furthermore he speaks about spying on the Qunari on MotA and being unseen. I am sure he learned more about stealth and such from the Fog Warriors as well as Danarius though. Not to mention the trick every slave knows of being in a room and being silent and not seen unless recognized. Silent and meek and all that. Definitely helps when one is developing stealth talents.

He has warrior training and knows how to kill, obviously, but he made coin by stealing, looting the hunters he killed, and more than likely pickpocketing. I doubt he would break and enter anywhere unless he had a reason to. He cannot pick locks, remember? An abandoned house or a place to stay the night he might break into, but I doubt he would intentionally break into someone's house to rob them or something. I don't see him doing that.

As far as how he compares, I think he is a quick-study and has had at least 3 years of trial by fire training, not to mention those months with the Fog Warriors. So yeah, I think he stacks up against a rogue Hawke pretty darn good. Especially since even rogue Hawke gets his/her purse nabbed by some rank amateur in Hightown as a newb refugee, LOL.

Fenris is all kinds of talented. My rogue Hawke spars with him and asks him for tips, LOL. At least in head!canon anyways.

Modifié par Arquen, 23 novembre 2011 - 01:32 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Arquen wrote...

He talks about "when I could steal the coin," and so I'm sure he learned quickly to loot the bodies of the hunters he killed that came after him and to pick-pocket.

We know he can pick-pocket because of the convo Rei mentioned.. the one with Varric:

Varric: So, elf. That thing you do with your hand...

Fenris: I can already tell this isn't going anywhere pleasant.

Varric: I bet that makes pickpocketing easier.

Fenris: I'll try it some time and find out.

So he definitely has experience in stealing and thievery. The stealth is pretty obvious too. As a hunted elf he never stayed in one place very long, and always left a way out for himself. Look at how in his short story he meticulously chose a room with an escape window and all the things he wanted. He has a few "meager" possessions, and travels a lot. Stealth pretty much comes along with that. Furthermore he speaks about spying on the Qunari on MotA and being unseen. I am sure he learned more about stealth and such from the Fog Warriors as well as Danarius though. Not to mention the trick every slave knows of being in a room and being silent and not seen unless recognized. Silent and meek and all that. Definitely helps when one is developing stealth talents.

He has warrior training and knows how to kill, obviously, but he made coin by stealing, looting the hunters he killed, and more than likely pickpocketing. I doubt he would break and enter anywhere unless he had a reason to. He cannot pick locks, remember? An abandoned house or a place to stay the night he might break into, but I doubt he would intentionally break into someone's house to rob them or something. I don't see him doing that.

As far as how he compares, I think he is a quick-study and has had at least 3 years of trial by fire training, not to mention those months with the Fog Warriors. So yeah, I think he stacks up against a rogue Hawke pretty darn good. Especially since even rogue Hawke gets his/her purse nabbed by some rank amateur in Hightown as a newb refugee, LOL.

Fenris is all kinds of talented. My rogue Hawke spars with him and asks him for tips, LOL. At least in head!canon anyways.

Hahaha! That amuses me to no end.

I had missed the spying parts somewhere (which shoots one of my theories straight to the Void) - but that's a good thing.  I keep having to remind myself that he's been on the run for nearly as long (or maybe longer if I am figuring the time correctly) as Hawke has been out of Ferelden at this point. This is what I get for not writing the Fog Warriors scene I planned for the Prologue. Maybe I need to revisit that in my copious writing time.  I don't know why I keep forgetting that, but it does change things as far as his street-sense goes.

And Rei - the idea of a rage-face Hawke reacting to the markings helping with pickpocketing makes me laugh. I know Doc wrote something about that a long time ago, and I unintentionally wrote almost the same thing - 

"Why in the Maker's name do we keep *ME* around again?" (Oh yes, the stellar good looks, the rapier wit, and the plot armor. </HawkeSnark>)

Thanks guys!

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 23 novembre 2011 - 01:37 .

[SurrealSadi]

Arcane_Solona wrote...

Oh, I totally see him as androgynous. But maybe that's just me, because I LOVE me some androgynous (Jared Leto, anyone? With that lanky physique, long hair and incredibly pretty blue eyes? RAWR!).

Sweetie, you just jumped into my brain and copied me. Though I don't see Fenris as androgynous at all.

Jared Leto, however, is. He is....YUM.

[Arquen]

PFF and you thought I was kidding...



mwahahaha.

My Hawke is always appreciative of skilled companions and so would never rage face over such things, LOL. Though I do remember that prompt a LooOOoOng time ago. Gah.. the good ole' days... *sigh*

Modifié par Arquen, 23 novembre 2011 - 02:17 .

[UrsulaCousland]

Wow...You are indeed the queen of the screenshots. *bows*

I guess I hadn't considered Fenris to be much into sparring in my head!canon. I picture Hawke and Aveline sparring, perhaps, or maybe, in a stretch, Isy and Hawke (probably if enough coin or booze were involved).

That's gorgeous!

[Arquen]

My Warrior Hawke also spars with Fenris. I actually think he would be a reluctant teacher and would not want to do such things at first, but I think being a warrior and respecting Hawke he would indeed spar with him/her at Hawke's discretion and prodding of course.

I think he would enjoy it. He's a warrior and he is very good at what he does, and my Hawkes are all about wanting to learn things. In fact, my warrior Hawke is so utterly broken and crazy that, well... I have this whole head!canon scene where she has Fenris spar with her.

My rogue likes to challenge herself, and she likes to test her mettle against Warriors because those are her weakness as a rogue. She needs to be fast, and who better to challenge her than Fenris. Though, rule #1 is:

Hawke: Okay, ground rules.. no using your markings!

Fenris: I cannot use my markings, but you can continue to use poison on your daggers?

Hawke: What's wrong with that? *smirks* I have potions with me. Besides, the point is to NOT get hit, remember.

Fenris: Hmph, yes truly a fair fight. Typical rogue.

Hawke: I am nothing if not a rogue. You know me. *wicked grin* Now.. GO! *disappears in a smoke screen only to appear behind Fenris*

Fenris: *already prepared for this attack has ducked low and turned around blade poised at Hawke* You need a new starting move, Hawke.

Hawke: And the lesson begins!

Now I need to find one of my warrior... LOL.

Modifié par Arquen, 23 novembre 2011 - 04:08 .

[Arcane_Solona]

Hmmm... maybe I have been giving the word androgynous a bit of a wider definition. Yes, Jared and Fenris are both clearly male. However, they are also both very... pretty (Jared more so than Fenris) but Fenris is totally someone you'd call a "pretty boy". Picture Cedric Diggory in the HP books (NOT in the movies; I do NOT think that Robert Pattinson is good looking in any way, shape or form).
There's no ambiguity with Fenris or Jared, just prettiness. Lots of it. And me loves prettiness of a male!

[Harle Cerulean]

Androgynous very specifically means that you would have a hard time telling whether they are male or female, going by looks. It doesn't mean 'pretty'. Which would be the source of the confusion here, since yeah, Fenris is not androgynous.

Edit: Or, to quote the dictionary, since it's past my bedtime and I can't write clearly:

"1. Biology Having both female and male characteristics; hermaphroditic.
2. Being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior."

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 23 novembre 2011 - 06:14 .

[Arcane_Solona]

Yeah, my bad. Thanks for the clear up, Harle.

Fenris (and Jared) are pretty. Though many I've spoken with argue that Fenris is androgynous, but going by the specific dictionary definition, he isn't. Far from it.

[Cosmochyck]

Wow!  Great discussions I have been missing whilst away lost in Skyrim...and RL unfortunately. 
Where to begin?  I immediately noticed the gap in his armor, and I play on the 360 - granted it's a 110 inch screen, so it makes details HARD to miss.  I'm with Arquen - I'm thinking it's for mobility.  He would have had to move quickly when around Danarius (as I'm sure LOTS of people were trying to kill him), and to perhaps help minimize noise while he moves. 

As for androgynous - I don't see it.  Yes he looks like an elf (DA2 elf), but he's DEFINITELY all man.  His shoulders, his stance, his jawline and angular face....nothing androgynous to me.  Although when I hear "androgynous", Ziggy Stardust instantly materializes in my head.  And Fenris is a LONG Way from Ziggy!

@Sia - loving the fic! 
@Arcane - keep the chapters coming!

I haven't finished Coffee, Black yet (ducks to avoid being pelted by stones), but I will soon!

I have a question that may have been covered already - at some point when you are at the Wounded Coast with Mr Broody, he says something like "well it's official, I've traveled from the north to the south".  Except when you look at a map of Thedas, Kirkwall is south of Tevinter, but Fereldan is south of that still - are we to assume he's just making a comment and doesn't think that the Wounded Coast is a far south as Thedas goes?

[AbsoluteApril]

Cosmochyck wrote...
I haven't finished Coffee, Black yet (ducks to avoid being pelted by stones), but I will soon!

you're not the only one, I'm only up to chapter 27, taking it nice and slow (like Garrett & Fen)

pages back the whole fen*V*jack was brought up, I just saw this on DA -  by *Epantiras


This one is always good for a laugh - by *radientphoenix111

[Arquen]

Bro-Fist one always makes me laugh.

I asked my boyfriend about Jack vs Fenris and if he thought there was anything there, and he went "What the? No! Just.. NO! not even close! What is wrong with those people? Who makes that comparison?!"

I was like.. okay then... LOL. Since I have never played Mass Effect I can't really comment on it, but what I hear of Jack she is a living weapon but her psyche and outlook and overall character are just completely different and not even close to Fenris in any way. Seems the only thing they share is living weapon and tats (Which I canonically think Fenris hates them being compared to tattoos so I call them markings). The tragic past -- LOL take that one off the list because that is like EVERY bioware character. Name one who DIDN'T have some sort of tragic past -- just varying degrees of tragic.

As for Coffee, Black -- I read it as it was being written from like chapter 18. I kept up with it even until now when it's slowed down. Reading it is like reading a book, it's a LOOONG fic, and nobody will blame you for not reading it all in one sitting, LOL. So no rock throwing here cosmo.

As for that statement on the wounded coast it is specifically triggered when you walk from the north of the wounded coast to the south. It is referring to the coast, not his travels in general because literally you have walked from the north of the zone to the south. Fenris knows when your walking in circles ;P

[Cosmochyck]

Arquen wrote...

Bro-Fist one always makes me laugh.

I asked my boyfriend about Jack vs Fenris and if he thought there was anything there, and he went "What the? No! Just.. NO! not even close! What is wrong with those people? Who makes that comparison?!"

I was like.. okay then... LOL. Since I have never played Mass Effect I can't really comment on it, but what I hear of Jack she is a living weapon but her psyche and outlook and overall character are just completely different and not even close to Fenris in any way. Seems the only thing they share is living weapon and tats (Which I canonically think Fenris hates them being compared to tattoos so I call them markings). The tragic past -- LOL take that one off the list because that is like EVERY bioware character. Name one who DIDN'T have some sort of tragic past -- just varying degrees of tragic.

As for Coffee, Black -- I read it as it was being written from like chapter 18. I kept up with it even until now when it's slowed down. Reading it is like reading a book, it's a LOOONG fic, and nobody will blame you for not reading it all in one sitting, LOL. So no rock throwing here cosmo.

As for that statement on the wounded coast it is specifically triggered when you walk from the north of the wounded coast to the south. It is referring to the coast, not his travels in general because literally you have walked from the north of the zone to the south. Fenris knows when your walking in circles ;P

See Arquen I knew you would have the answers!  I was just never sure within what context he was making the statement.  And somehow I suspected that Fenris would know where he's been in Thedas...

And I agree with your boyfriend 100%.  I never made that comparison at all either!

[ReiSilver]

Don't worry Jack fans, we Fenris fans have to sigh and shake our heads at the hate threads too (though it seems to have been quiet of late which is nice)

I love both Jack and Fenris but they are very different despite some similarities. Though at one point I was thinking how Jack swears all the time and puts on a very uncultured-tough front unlike Fenris... then I remember Fenris swears a lot too it's just he does it in Tevene/Tevinter/whatever the name of the language is. It amused me anyway, but the point still stands that Fenris tries to present a respectable/cultured front with his way of speaking where Jack goes for the opposite.

I also had a weird experience in a recent ME2 play through where I was talking to Thane about his past and his argument if you imply the Hanar used him like a slave. It made me think how Fenris would either find him incredibly frustrating or they would get into very depressing arguments.

[Arquen]

By the way... since I am a frequenter here and there is a good discussion about Arcanum and Tevene going on in the Tumblr right now...

Guess what guys... I think I'm going to change my stance... Arcanum is back!

In set 1 of the RPG the word Arcanum is not mentioned. In fact, it isn't mentioned anywhere. However, in set 2 of the RPG guide the word Arcanum IS mentioned as one of the languages of Thedas. So, i'm thinking that Arcanum has made its way into the canon, even though it was probably made up by wiki trolls.

I'm excited about this more than I should be, but I've always loved the word Arcanum over Tevene, LOL.

Pic for reference:


So, there is that.

[AbsoluteApril]

Yeah Jack is nothing like Fenris (imo)

side note, just started Legacy again:
Fenris in Legacy: "Now this is unexpected. I thought all dwarves did was drink..."
Hawke: "and Varric not here to respond, tsk tsk tsk"
Fenris "He's probably drinking"

oh Fen

[Arquen]

I like when Varric IS there... it's more hilarious...

Fenris: Now this is unexpected. I thought all dwarves did was drink.

Varric: Hey now!

Fenris: And lie. Pardon the omission.

Varric: That's better.

I was cracking up. Varric and Fenris are such trolling buddies. It's great.

[Chun Hei]

Fenris is usually polite and apologizes for his outbursts. Jack never apologizes and complains when she is told to calm down. Fenris does not start fights but usually loses his cool afterwards when the adrenaline is still flowing. Jack goes out looking for fights.

Plus Jack is a woman and walks around almost naked. Fenris makes me sad because he is always fully dressed.

[Arcane_Solona]

Chun Hei wrote...

Fenris is usually polite and apologizes for his outbursts. Jack never apologizes and complains when she is told to calm down. Fenris does not start fights but usually loses his cool afterwards when the adrenaline is still flowing. Jack goes out looking for fights.

Plus Jack is a woman and walks around almost naked. Fenris makes me sad because he is always fully dressed.

Even after the freaking love scene. Makes me very sad indeed.

[tankgirly]

Is now a good time to mention we are now 6 pages away to 1900?

[Arquen]

I noticed this and went "yay!"

However, we are moving at like... one page per 1.5 days. *sigh*

I just hope we make it to 2000 some day, LOL.

Ooo.. and just to be on topic.. I found this...


by GoldKanet on DA

I do love artwork of stealing heart Fenris....