55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Dutchess]

 @ Arquen: jay, the long anticipated wall-of-text response! Everyone else here is basically saying:  "tl;dr" but I read it all, haha. But I'll refrain from posting another über post myself. All in all, it's a pretty complicated subject, especially because we get so little information. Still, I've got some things to say.

About Fenris being exposed to lyrium during his life as Leto and thus developing a sort of resistance similar to dwarves... not so likely. The dwarves as a race have this natural resilience that has built up over generations and generations of exposure. It doesn't happen so fast in one person. If any elves are more the opposite of dwarves, having more talent for magic... at least that was the case in DAO. I also have never got the impression that being near mages and their magic has an altering influence on you. If that would be the case, more of the magisters' slaves would have the same resilience as Fenris built up to a certain degree. However, I don't see why contact with mages would change anything. 
I actually got the impression magic is some kind of genetical thing. At least it's usually running in a family. Leandra's parents were angry because she brought more magic into the family with Malcolm, increasing the chance of magical babies. Perhaps there is a "magical" gene? If it's recessive, it can be passed on for generations without people noticing it. Lol, I actually don't really know where I intend to go with this train of thought. So many things are vague... 

I don't think Fenris will forever be able to maintain the lyrium by himself. He doesn't fully comprehend what Danarius had done to him, he doesn't fully comprehend the working of his markings, and he'll probably never figure it all out. He simply lacks the knowledge and, most likely, the skill. Whatever the way Danarius  "maintained" the lyrium, it will not last forever. The magical seals that protected the Grey Warden treaties wore off eventually, so apparently even spells have an expiration date. 

Ugh, my thoughts end up going in circles. I think I'll leave it at this and try to write some fic instead.  All in all, I hope Fenris can live a long and happy life with my Hawkes, and that the lyrium will stay calm for a long, long time.


@ Arcane: yeah, I know this is something we'll probably never get to know the truth of. Even so, I find this a very interesting subject to discuss. It's such an important part of Fenris and his character. It's what makes him so unique in the DA world. Arquen certainly helped with gaining more insight in the whole situation. 


@ Obsydian: good luck with your man troubles. Hope you can work it out eventually. About Anders... I'm not entirely sure, I haven't completed my romance with him yet, but I believe even a romanced Hawke just stabs him in the back, with not really much of a difference. You can probably find it on youtube though.

Modifié par renjility, 05 décembre 2011 - 07:03 .

[tankgirly]

by m-lyn

[Sialater]

That's adorable!

[tankgirly]

Hot off the press by awesome and fantastic aimo:

[AbsoluteApril]

Arquen wrote... 

Perhaps as Leto he was exposed to Lyrium? Being around magisters exposed him more and built up some resiliance? Resiliance to lyrium for Fenris comes in the form of tolerance built up over time. It may be he is a unique individual in that regards, and it is why he was chosen during the contest. It may be because he did have a tolerance built up to lyrium due to past exposure even as Leto.

when I read this, I now imagine Leto was made to wear a vial or amulet of lyrium to build up the resiliance..
oh head cannon... Leto with glowing amulet...

Arquen wrote...

Basically, I don't think the other magisters would be privvy to Danarius's research. He wouldn't have wanted that to be in anyone else's hands besides his own. I'm sure he had previous test subjects, but Fenris was, admittedly the first, and only successful prototype. Danarius would have guarded that secret and that research carefully.

I agree with this and always assumed that was why Danarius tried so hard to get Fenris back, tracking him, sending teams after him, trying to trick him, etc... if it was something that could be duplicated, I believe he would have done it.
Fenris is the one and only.

 fen

EDIT TO ADD:

Obsydian wrote...
     can someone tell me, if Anders is your LI and you kill him.. is there anything? please tell me there is.   cause that was heartbreaking. 

hmm I'm not sure, the only time I let Anders live, he was my LI... however, I believe I have a save right before this and I can test for you tonight! I'll report back

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 05 décembre 2011 - 08:48 .

[Thiefy]

Obsydian wrote...
 can someone tell me, if Anders is your LI and you kill him.. is there anything? please tell me there is.   cause that was heartbreaking. 

I'm pretty sure he always gets stabbed in the back regardless if you decide to kill him, unless there is a pc mod that changes this

*is a console player*

[tankgirly]

by kveldvaahiim

[Obsydian]

thanks guys. its just heartbreaking. cause as much as anders annoyed me.... i didn't really want to kill him.
i dunno. i'm also happy that i finally got to see the ending "promise me you won't die" with my own hawke..... my favorite scene in any video game ever.

and i must also note that there's a boy that i work with that could be an elf.... not a Fenris, as he doesn't have that same face shape... but he has DA2 elven features. the narrow face and the same kind of nose.
every time i see him i think, "hehe, elf"

[AbsoluteApril]

I am so irritated right now, hooked up my capture device (I play on xbox), ran the end scenes, but it records with static! 'freaking static over the entire thing and I cannot figure out how to get rid of it! I'm going to go complain to the company I guess... so I don't want to upload this to youtube unless a constant scratchy static won't annoy you. (URGH)

Anyways, no, it does not seem like there is any emotional reaction from the stabbing, it does not seem any different than when my non-romanced hawkes did it. You do get some additional comments from Anders: "I wanted to tell you, but what if you stopped me, or worse, wanted to help, I couldn't let you do that." and when you say he must die he does say "I'm glad it was you, it was nice to be happy, for a while." It would have been nice if she had wiped a tear away or something.

here is a vid someone else loaded (i'm still so irrated with my stupid system)


Well one good thing about all this, I got to play around with new options as a non-romanced Fenris was against me siding with the mages but later when I asked him to join me, he agreed to come back to fight by my side (I hadn't friend or rivaled him in that PT, so it was surprising).

[Arcane_Solona]

This fic was posted on the kink meme, and I... well, I just thought I'd post the link here and share it because it's just too darn tragically beautiful not to share. It's about Fenris getting killed.

HOWEVER, MAJOR WARNING: You WILL sob HARD. You will cry like you've never cried before and you won't be able to do anything about it. I cried so hard, I was shaking all over and I could barely breathe in between sobs.

Yeah. It's THAT BAD.

To all those who are brave enough to read it and end up NOT crying: well... you'd be super-human if you didn't cry. 

Ladies and gentlemen of the Fenris Thread, I present to you: Lacrimosa.

Oh, and I HIGHLY recommend reading the fic while listening to the recommended soundtrack. YOU MUST DO THIS! Choose Dumbledore's farewell because Maker's breath, it's just perfect for the fic.

You have been warned.

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 06 décembre 2011 - 09:37 .

[Dutchess]

 Lol, thanks for the huge warning, hehe. At least I'm prepared now. I will read it tonight. Now I'm off to the university. 

[Arquen]

WALL O TEXTING LIKE A BOOSSSS 

Anders's death scene is the same either way. The dialogue is a bit different on his romance and it also differs between friend/rivalry, but the actual animation, and Hawke's reaction is the exact same.

It has been a source of disappointment throughout the Anders thread/fans forever.

I always let Seb go. I only sided with the Templars twice and both times ended up killing Anders. One time it was to murder knife him (for science!) and another time I let him go, but I had friended him so he came back and died defending the mages. My heart... ughh.. I hate killing him. I love that apostate. I also don't much like siding with the Templars. I think in the end siding with the mages is my personal preference and choice. Fenris always sided with me. Even on my first, virgin PT I was very pro-mage choices and Fenris still sided with me in the end. I guess I just had a natural ability to friendmance him from the get-go, LOL.

To touch on the discussion one more time, ren... I didn't mean to say that Fenris has the same genetic implanted ability as the dwarves. My point is that he is unique when it comes to his inherent resistance to lyrium and perhaps with that also comes an inherent resilience to magic as well. Like the dwarves. He is not a dwarf, and so I don't expect years of evolution and genetics to be put into him, but there is no doubt that he has an inherent resistance or he would not have survived the ritual. Danarius no doubt KNEW this, and incorporated it into his "contest," to weed out subjects who would be weaker against the ritual. What I meant about exposure for Leto is not so much to mages or magic, but MAGISTERS (which is what I said). Magisters experimenting on their slaves, exposing their slaves to dangerous environments (lyrium wells, or lyrium mines perhaps?) This might produce some kind of tolerance, or have similar effects of lyrium on other beings.. like what happens with Templars. Still, there is also the fact that Fenris has resisted the lyrium for at least 13+ years during the course of the game without any signs/symptoms of mental or physical aversion. If Danarius put a seal on the markings during the ritual (which he might have) then he more than likely meant it to be a one time deal. Not something he had to keep reinventing or reinfusing. If that were true then the "maintaining" would involve weekly check-ups or something. The seal may eventually break down, and I have never denied that, but I don't think it will be any time soon if the game is any indication.

I also think Fenris does have the capacity to learn from his markings, and the curiosity to develop them further. The "maintaining" as I said is more likely something passive because if it was active then Danarius would have to actively DO something to Fenris to augment or maintain the markings stability. There is never any indication of that. Fenris can use the markings, manipulate the markings, use varying degrees of pressure, pinpoints, phasing. Look at the way he kills Danarius vs the way he kills his sister, the guard, tortures the slaver and Gascard. He has learned to control what he does with the markings.. who is to say he couldn't develop it further through practicing. I think he is very in tune with his skill, and has lived with the markings for so long that he has no qualms using them and developing new ways to use them to his advantage.

Also, Mages cannot be around raw lyrium, and lyrium in any form other than distilled potions can be harmful. That being said, I also remember that Tevinter is one of the highest trading partners with Orzammar for their lyrium. I doubt Leto would wear an amulet made of lyrium unless his master wanted to use him as a walking battery or something. It is possible though, and I kind of like that head!canon April. Since a piece of raw lyrium always at hand would create an advantage and would also lend more power than a simple potion could ever do.

As far as the genetics.. magic isn't "genetic" per-say even though it seems that way. I remember reading something that an affinity for magic may run in a family, but magic comes from the Fade. People are born mages because they have an affinity for the fade, whether that affinity is genetic or not remains a mystery. It seems though, that the more mages in the family, the more likely this is to pass on from generation to generation. Still, one can have a mage in the family, and not have any mage children, and there are varying levels of power and ability within the mage line. It is more Chantry propoganda to "not marry a mage or you might have mage babies!" than actuality I think.

Also, lovely little tidbits here:

"Of course, the greatest consumer of slave labor is the Tevinter Imperium, which would surely crumble if not for the endless supply of slaves from all over the continent. There, they are meat, chattel. They are beaten, used as fodder in the endless war against the Qunari, and even serve as components in dark magic rituals."

and

"It is still legal for elves to be sold into slavery in Tevinter, and many elves choose to sell themselves into slavery to provide for their families. This results in many Tevinter elves who are not slaves being better off than elves in other areas, even if elven slaves fare far worse."

Pff.. even MORE reason for me to roll my eyes at all the people who think Fenris had a pampered life as a bodyguard and that Varania had it omg so hard... bah.

Modifié par Arquen, 06 décembre 2011 - 07:54 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Oh god, Varania again. XD I'm not going to touch the lyrium discussion, because it's pure speculation, and everyone has their own headcanon on it, so to be debating it is fairly pointless unless we get something more solid. But I will wall'o'text about Varania!

One thing that to me says that Varania is not nearly as sympathetic a case as some people would like to think is, her comment about how Fenris doesn't know what she's had to do "since mother died."

So, what about before your mother died, Varania? If life was so terribly hard for you after, what were you doing before? Letting your mother take all the hardship for you, like Fenris when he fought to free you?

If she had been a small child, that would be understandable, but she doesn't seem much younger than Fenris - in fact, it's hard to tell which one might be older or younger. But I can't see her being any younger than mid to late teens when Fenris frees them, since that's also the approximate youngest I can see Fenris being when he takes the ritual. We don't know how long her mother survived after, but when you live in rough situations, mid to late teens is old enough to shoulder some of the burden yourself. But, by her words, she didn't feel there was a hardship until after their mother died.

And then there's her profession. I know some people like to go on about how badly she muct have been used, but a tailor is a skilled trade. It's not something you can get any random servant or slave to do, it takes practice and knowledge. Ever since fashion and clothing for use as more than simply concealment for the body came into existence, tailoring has been a valued skill. After the Renaissance, and before the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, it was one of a very few middle-class professions. The 'poor tailor' idea mostly came into being after automated processes made it easier to make clothing, so that it required less skill. Certainly there were levels of tailors - the tailor hired a merchant would make less money than the tailor hired by a king - it was still skilled work that was valued, and paid according to their skill and level of work. While I'm sure Varania's life wasn't what we would call easy, I cannot believe that it was utterly horrible, since she had a skill that would have been considered worthwhile and would have earned her decent money.

Now, I do feel that she may have been influenced into betraying Fenris by fear of Danarius - obviously, telling a Magister "No, I'm not going to help you reclaim your several-thousand-sovereign investment" is a bad idea, no matter what your valued skill is. But to me it's also quite telling that when Fenris is going to kill her afterwards, she protests that it was her only chance to become a Magister. Not that Danarius would have killed her, not that he threatened to reenslave her, but that it was her only chance for more power. Also telling is the fact that she views Fenris' enslavement to Danarius in terms of how much power he got out of it - because he got power, he had it better, to her mind, even though he suffered a great deal at the hands of Danarius and Hadriana, and remained a slave. She has no idea what Fenris has been through, when she says that. She simply assumes that because he gained power, he had it better. So while I'm willing to extend her a certain amount of leeway, I do not particularly sympathize with her, nor do I buy that she had a harder life than Fenris.

Also, as a note, Arquen, in Act III, it's been nine years since Fenris escaped Danarius (in Act I, he says it's been three years since he escaped; Act III is, of course, six years later). The game spans ten years only because of Varric's interrogation by Cassandra, which happens three years after the end of Act III, and one of those ten years is a year before Fenris met Hawke, since Hawke comes to Kirkwall a year before Act I. When Varric is wrapping up his tale to Cassandra, we have no idea what Fenris' condition is like, because Varric hasn't seen him in an unknown amount of time, and doesn't say anything about what happened afterwards besides whether or not Fenris and Hawke went seperate ways, depending on whether Fenris was romanced or not.

So, saying he resisted it for 13+ years during the game isn't accurate, as we only see him up to nine years after his escape. Now, presumably Fenris was Danarius' bodyguard for some time prior to his escape, but we don't know if it was a year, two years, or even a decade, given how hard it is to judge age in this game. I mean, m!Hawke looks like he's in his mid thirties at the start of the game, but going by timelines mentioned in Legacy, Hawke was 23 during the flight from Lothering. (Since it's 7 years before Act III, and in Act III in Legacy, Larius says it's been 30 years since Malcolm reinforced the seals, and dialogue shows that Hawke had either just been born, or was about to be born when Malcolm did that. Therefore, 23. Despite m!Hawke's wrinkles and general wear. Funny how f!Hawke looks so much younger and fresher, isn't it. We can't be having with a wrinkled heroine!!!)

. . . speaking of wall'o'text . . .

[Sialater]

Arcane_Solona wrote...

This fic was posted on the kink meme, and I... well, I just thought I'd post the link here and share it because it's just too darn tragically beautiful not to share. It's about Fenris getting killed.

HOWEVER, MAJOR WARNING: You WILL sob HARD. You will cry like you've never cried before and you won't be able to do anything about it. I cried so hard, I was shaking all over and I could barely breathe in between sobs.

Yeah. It's THAT BAD.

To all those who are brave enough to read it and end up NOT crying: well... you'd be super-human if you didn't cry. 

Ladies and gentlemen of the Fenris Thread, I present to you: Lacrimosa.

Oh, and I HIGHLY recommend reading the fic while listening to the recommended soundtrack. YOU MUST DO THIS! Choose Dumbledore's farewell because Maker's breath, it's just perfect for the fic.

You have been warned.

That one actually did get to me.  I lost it about the same time Aveline did.

[Arquen]

Harle I completely agree with you on pretty much all points about Varania. I never really sympathized with her and I found it interesting how you pointed out her distinction of "after mother died."

Honestly, not much I can add to that. Varania was never worth my pity, and I always let Fenris kill her.

As for the 13+ years -- I pretty much just got that number by going 10 years in game plus 3 years on the run. I don't think in the 1-3 years after act 3 Fenris would have this massive degeneration. It just doesn't make sense, and Varric says his little shpeal about how they all parted ways with the champion. I also should probably have included his time with the markings. I suppose though that his time with Danarius doesn't really count since Danarius was "maintaining" the markings during that time. You could also say that nothing really matters until Danarius's death. If this so called "maintaining" was connected to Danarius being alive, that is. Which I doubt. Still, I'm sure it will come up, LOL. If there is some stabilization connected to Danarius's life then it would be what.. 3 years or so without said maintenance? Still, no kinds of signs and symptoms within act 3. Of course in Fenris's act 2 QB he says "3 years..." and then in act 3 QB he says "6 years ago..." and I go, "wait.. so how long is act 3 then!?"

The timeline in Dragon Age has always kind of baffled me. Don't even get me started on ages and not to mention how Origins and Awakenings happened and how Anders had time to become an abomination, leave the wardens, be on the run, and end up in Kirkwall between DAA and DA2. 13+ was just kind of a shotgun number which includes the course of the game and the 3 years that he was on the run (assuming the game takes place over 10 years that is, and I'm including the time between act 3 and Varric's arrest.)

[ladyshamen]

Ladies and gentlemen of the Fenris Thread, I present to you: Lacrimosa.

De-lurking long enough to cry. I have been with two people as they died, this really hit home.

[Annarl]

Obsydian wrote...

finally got to read chapter 17 of Wolfs Imprint. yay!
finally getting to finish this game. Do you guys even understand how hard it has been to know what happens at the end here, but to never have played it myself? damn. lol. so I'm siding with the Templars (duh) even though I've supported mages mostly throughout the game. I just ... I know Orsino is a blood mage and ... gods I hate blood mages. I wish that Merrill wasn't one. cause I like her ... i just hate her so much. lol. Oh Eve Myles. why must I have a love/hate relationship with you in everything you do....

and thank you guys... my boy issues are by no means resolved.... have only gotten worse/more confusing... but its nice to know that i can come here and get support and sexy pictures of Fenris. cause those really do help.
that and fanfic.
.... I think I've now read Coffee, Black 4 times all the way through. sad, huh. anyone got suggestions for more angsty fic?

lastly oh dear. wall of text. have skimmed... will read officially later. overall though... you're brilliant and i agree.


Edit.  Also. I want to hug Sebastian after the Chantry explodes.  

edit again.  omg. i dont want to kill Anders... but .... i think i have to. :*(  i really do like Anders... for all his whining.   *pushes button*  damn. i didn't want to do lose my healer and friend, but .... I dont want to lose Sebastian either.

last edit. i swear.   ....I wish there was a bit more...  sadness in hawke when he killed Anders.    he and my Hawke were bro's. i know that he felt regret that he had to kill his friend...      can someone tell me, if Anders is your LI and you kill him.. is there anything? please tell me there is.   cause that was heartbreaking. 

I would like to have expression of regret or conflict there too.  But I always looked at it, in my head cannon, as Hawke was angry in that moment and regrets will come later.

Obsydian, I hope you get things worked out with your boyfriend.  Wishing you the best.

Modifié par omearaee, 06 décembre 2011 - 03:35 .

[Annarl]

Arquen wrote...

 

Basically, I don't think the other magisters would be privvy to Danarius's research. He wouldn't have wanted that to be in anyone else's hands besides his own. I'm sure he had previous test subjects, but Fenris was, admittedly the first, and only successful prototype. Danarius would have guarded that secret and that research carefully. Other magisters can try to replicate it, no doubt, but Danarius's specific research and secrets probably did die with him. Unless he trusted it to an apprentice (which I doubt), or other people were involved in the ritual (which is more likely the case, but I'm sure they were probably killed afterwards.) So, while it is always possible that Fenris is not the last, I doubt we will see an army of Lyrium Warriors any time soon. He is a unique being, in all regards there.

Gaider used the word "maintaining" to describe what Danarius did with the lyrium. "Without Danarius maintaining..." the lyrium we don't know what could happen. Now, while everyone else is all about doom and gloom and he's going to go mad and Danarius's spells will fade eventually. It begs the question -- what spells? what maintainance? It obviously wasn't something Danarius had to be physically present to do. He obviously didn't have to actively be around Fenris "maintaining" the markings with weekly check-ups or something. Therefore, it makes more sense to me that it is a sort of passive thing. Unless it was connected with Danarius's life and then after his death the magic starts to break down. That's the only thought I have that makes sense about "maintenance," but it makes more sense that Fenris could probably pick up on this passive type maintenance himself. Within his many years of being on his own and learning more about how to use his markings I think it is only a matter of time before the "maintenance" is either not required, or something he does passively. Basically, I think he might have his years cut short already because of the markings, the ritual, and the lyrium in general, but I don't see him being doomed per say to a mental breakdown or an anguished death due to it. More than likely just a shorter lifespan.

<3

These are the things that I have wondered at.  And I guess only Gaider can answer.  But one would think Fenris would remember if the maintenance was something phyiscal or at least if he had submit to some type of spell, say if Danarius had to put Fenris under a sleep spell for the maintenance.  And if Fenris was on the run for so long, how often does he need this maintenance. 
I find the ritual fascinating.  There are so many possiblilties. Whenever the topic comes up, I always end up with more questions than answers. I wish we had more details but vague is probably better for Fenris' sake. I want him to some what of a normal life...well as normal as one can get with Hawke.

Modifié par omearaee, 06 décembre 2011 - 03:56 .

[Sialater]

I doubt it needs maintenance. Fenris wouldn't have bothered to escape, or you'd have had to convince Anders or Merrill to figure out how to maintain it if that were the case. And Danarius would have used that to keep a hold over Fenris. "You need me, slave, or you'll die a slow, agonizing death from the poison you let me inject into your body."

[Arquen]

That's where Gaider is rather vague, Sia.. saying only:

“What effects the lyrium would have on Fenris is completely up in the air. Fenris was a test case by Danarius, the first of his kind, so anything can happen (lots of jokes about how fanfiction could go crazy on this, haha). It may make him crazy, may give him added powers, we don’t know. Also, since Danarius isn’t around anymore to “maintain” the lyrium (Gaider’s word), it could become unstable. Gaider imagines lyrium like mercury.”

Which makes it sound like even Danarius really didn't know what kind of effect the lyrium would have on Fenris in the end. However, he protected his investment. I agree with omearaee though that Fenris would remember an active, physical spell or maintenance being performed on him. I lean more toward Danarius placed a protection spell or seal during the ritual as a one time deal that was to protect the subject so it could survive the branding and resist the lyrium corruption during the process.

So, I doubt Danarius could hold that over Fenris because Fenris was the first of his kind. Danarius probably didn't know if the lyrium would kill him, make him stronger, or what. No doubt though he took precautions to protect his investment, and so that might be where this "maintaining" word comes from.

Still, as everyone says.. all very obtuse and speculative, but I like theorycrafting. It was how I got to my head!canon of what was in the box, and look there... I was right.. when it finally got confirmed by Gaider that it was info on his family. So, yeah.. I just like bouncing theory around. Don't mind me.

[Dutchess]

 I don't sympathize that much with Varania, although I imagine her life wasn't easy, but I usually don't let Fenris kill her. Not really to save her, but to not let Fenris live with the fact that he has killed his own sister, even though she betrayed him. She is - or maybe "was" is more appropriate - his only family. She is the reason he fought for those markings. She is the reason for his sacrifice and all the misery he has been through afterwards, although he doesn't remember that was the way it went. I found it a sad idea that everything really was for nothing. Perhaps Varania doesn't deserve to live after the way she betrayed her brother, hoping she would become a magister. Still, I imagine killing his sister as an act he might come to regret eventually, and I wanted to prevent that. 
Plus, Hawke loses most of, or his/her whole family. Most Hawke's I played value family and don't want to support killing a sibling, even though that sibling made a terrible mistake. Again, mostly for the reason Fenris might regret it later and he has enough feelings of guilt to struggle with, not out of extreme pity for Variania. She really didn't seem that nice, and she clearly has no idea what she is talking about when she tells Fenris he got the better end of the bargain. It's a pity that neither Fenris or Hawke get the chance to tell her what he's been through. I imagine that would really change he attitude, not only about Fenris, about the magisters as well (apparently she has some blind spot there, for wanting to become one). It would be nice if she should then live with the guilt of betraying her own brother, who sacrificed so much for her.


Edit: oh, the new discussion subject distracted me so much that I forgot to mention I've started reading "Coffee, Black". I lol'ed pretty much the entire time. I'd only rather not imagine Fenris as a smoker... ah well, it's Fen in that fic after all, not Fenris. 

I hope, however, I get the chance tonight to read the sad, sad fic Arcane linked. Is it very long? 


Edit 2: one small thing about the lyrium and the memory wipe and the connection with Wizards' first rule: I should have been more clear about what I really meant, but I didn't have it all sorted out in my head already. Anyway, I agree it's not the same case with Fenris. But I figured the extreme pain of the ritual "broke" something in Fenris, made something snap. To cope with all the pain, he had to let go of himself, if that makes any sense at all. It would be in line with Fenris' own statement: "the agony of the ritual wiped away everything else."


Something else about Fenris' memory: after he and Hawke get back together in act 3, they will likely have... uh... more fun in the bedroom. Do you guys think Fenris will get more flashbacks of his old life while doing that? He recognized Varania when he saw her, but he doesn't magically recall the rest of his life. She tells him he fought for the markings, he still didn't know before she did. 
It's probably also not just sex that triggered the flashbacks, considering he will develop a sexual relationship with Isabela if not romanced by Hawke and he doesn't seem to have the same emotional issues as with Hawke.

Modifié par renjility, 06 décembre 2011 - 04:41 .

[Sialater]

Arquen wrote...

That's where Gaider is rather vague, Sia.. saying only:

“What effects the lyrium would have on Fenris is completely up in the air. Fenris was a test case by Danarius, the first of his kind, so anything can happen (lots of jokes about how fanfiction could go crazy on this, haha). It may make him crazy, may give him added powers, we don’t know. Also, since Danarius isn’t around anymore to “maintain” the lyrium (Gaider’s word), it could become unstable. Gaider imagines lyrium like mercury.”

Which makes it sound like even Danarius really didn't know what kind of effect the lyrium would have on Fenris in the end. However, he protected his investment. I agree with omearaee though that Fenris would remember an active, physical spell or maintenance being performed on him. I lean more toward Danarius placed a protection spell or seal during the ritual as a one time deal that was to protect the subject so it could survive the branding and resist the lyrium corruption during the process.

So, I doubt Danarius could hold that over Fenris because Fenris was the first of his kind. Danarius probably didn't know if the lyrium would kill him, make him stronger, or what. No doubt though he took precautions to protect his investment, and so that might be where this "maintaining" word comes from.

Still, as everyone says.. all very obtuse and speculative, but I like theorycrafting. It was how I got to my head!canon of what was in the box, and look there... I was right.. when it finally got confirmed by Gaider that it was info on his family. So, yeah.. I just like bouncing theory around. Don't mind me.

No, I'm saying if there's the least chance that Danarius could have used it as a hold over Fenris, he would have used it.   I know Gaidar said "maintain" but that makes no sense unless it was something simple Fenris could do on his own or Hawke could figure out, thereby negating the hold Danarius had over him so that no one even brings it up.  If maintanance was needed, it should have been mentioned.  And it wasn't.  Unless it was somewhere and we all missed it?

As far as abilities.... I speculate Fenris might "itch" or have a skin-crawly feeling around areas where the veil is thin or torn like Sundermount or the Bone Pit.  Hell, maybe one of the reasons he and Anders can't stand each other is the Lyrium/Justice dissonance.  (Not attraction, dissonance.)  Like they literally, physically, set each other's teeth on edge, make each other's skin crawl.

[ladyshamen]

Sialater, very interesting theory about Fenris and Anders/Justice! I like it.

[Arquen]

That's interesting. I often wondered that myself.. If Fenris can actually have some kind of physical inkling of the Fade that he doesn't really connect as being "sensing" the fade. I think it is highly possible that there may be some physical dissonance between Anders and Fenris. Justice being a spirit from the fade, and Fenris's markings picking up on that anomaly. In Fenris's short story the word Gaider used was "buzzed." The magic "buzzed" under his flesh when he activates his markings. I don't doubt there would be some kind of buzz, itch, tingling, general discomfort when confronted with certain anomalies like a thinning of the veil, demons, or Justice taking over.

As for the maintenance, I completely agree with you. I must have misinterpreted thinking that you meant Danarius KNEW that Fenris would die a horrible, agonizing death due to the lyrium if Danarius wasn't there to do... whatever it is.. he did with the markings. If he did know the effects he would not have hesitated to hold it over Fenris, and so I agree there. The fact that he didn't threaten Fenris in this way (at least as far as we know and from what he tells us) we can only assume he either had no idea what the lyrium would do to Fenris, or that the maintenance he performed was passive and more for himself (which I said in my essay) than for Fenris's sake.

[Obsydian]

yay for more stories that make me cry. There's one Mass Effect story (oddly enough, also on the k-meme) that brings me to a ball of tears every time..... lets see if this one can beat it. Its called 100 Year Distance and any ME fans should totally read it. its Garrus/femShep.

Re: killing Anders. This being my first PT... i haven't yet decided if its the right move. I really do love Anders. I do.. i just... i don't condone what he did. I don't like mages in general really... the only one who proves ever not to be retarded and blood mage-ish is your sister... and ... i dunno. I'm just really really twitch about them. Not that I think Templars or genocide is the correct solution. That was always my biggest problem with this game.... just.... its too black and white. There needs to be a grey area.... My PC PT is a mage though, so i'll obviously be siding with the mages there. I just love Seb too much to watch him leave. its a lose lose for me. Either way I lose a character that I love.