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[Sialater]

@ Arquen: That little twitchy movement he does like he thinks someone's watching him. It's my only evidence. LOL


Ah, er... ToP:

"Puppy Eyes" by MarikaCzajkowa

Modifié par Sialater, 06 décembre 2011 - 06:17 .

[Cosmochyck]

Ok Arcane - you were right.  Lacrimosa - so sad.  I read it at work so had to hold it together, but I still managed to let a tear escape.  I really like the switching of timelines. 

Regarding Fenris and the markings - I agree that we will never really know unless DG speaks up and tells us, but I do like that he "feels" something with them (buzzed), and perhaps there is a "maintenance" component of which Fenris is aware.  Considering he hasn't deteriorated (that we can tell) within the timeline of the game, I would assume it's a slow deterioration if at all.  Again all speculation. 

Varania?  I've killed her every time but one, just to hear the different dialogue.  I've never felt sorry for her.  And she didn't seem too excited to see her brother again, so meh, she just never factored in too much to Fenris's story for me.  He's made a new life with new friends and she's part of his past - such as it was.

As a side note - every time someone BBMs me, I hear "I am yours" - makes my whole day!

Modifié par Cosmochyck, 06 décembre 2011 - 07:59 .

[Dutchess]

 Lacrimosa... I read it, and I have to confess I didn't cry. Not sure why, it was certainly sad. Marked just touched me more, I guess. Well, now I'm off to Coffee, Black. That will be happier, right?:happy:

[Obsydian]

Coffee, Black has some spots that make me tear up a bit.... but overall, yes. yes much happier.

ok. so. finally read Lacrimosa.  Had to gear myself up for it and wait till the boy wasn't around.  and damn. I can't stop crying.   I also lost it around when Avaline did. and then i didn't stop. 
and i still haven't. 
damn. 

Modifié par Obsydian, 06 décembre 2011 - 10:00 .

[Arcane_Solona]

Obsydian wrote...

Coffee, Black has some spots that make me tear up a bit.... but overall, yes. yes much happier.

ok. so. finally read Lacrimosa.  Had to gear myself up for it and wait till the boy wasn't around.  and damn. I can't stop crying.   I also lost it around when Avaline did. and then i didn't stop. 
and i still haven't. 
damn. 

I told you:( I couldn't stop crying for Maker knows how long.

[Harle Cerulean]

@Obsydian: Yeah, I read it right after it was posted (I'm a kmeme junkie, it's sort of scary how much time I spend over there), and Aveline telling Donnic no more Diamondback was where I started bawling. I think that hit me so hard because I adore Fenris' relationship with Aveline and his friendship with Donnic, and just . . . god. So incredibly sad.

If I weren't in the middle of finals (12 pages of poetry analysis due in less than 24 hours, of which I have four written, AUGH!!!) I'd write something fluffy to make myself feel better, but I can't spare the time. I shouldn't even be here typing this . . . >_> Okay, back to the grindstone.

[Arquen]

I just.. will refrain from posting my comments on Lacrimosa. I read it, and I found it sad, but no... I didn't cry either ren. I'm starting to think something might be wrong with me. All these sad fics and I am just.. well.. I don't have the same reaction you guys do. Then again, even in my real life people tilt their head at me and go "seriously?" when things they cry at come up, and I don't even tear up. *sigh*

To jump in on Varania. I killed her every playthrough. The only playthrough I did not kill her in was the one where I let Bethany die in the deep roads. Only because I wanted to say the line "I know what it is like to kill your own sister," and Varric chime in with "it's not worth it." It was moving, and I loved it, but it wasn't for Varania's sake and it wasn't because I felt Fenris should let her live. It was because my Hawke believed that no matter how depraved and horrible a person is, if they are family, they should be spared.

Of course then Varania turns around and **** twists the knife and says "you competed for them.." and I just wanted to kill her all over again. Honestly, that bit she says is just being cruel. At no point did I ever feel she was worthy of being let live. Not because of her betrayal, not because of her crappy life, but because of her CHOICES. At any time she could have chosen to side with Fenris. She could have kept her mouth shut, but she WANTED to be a magister. She wanted power. She made a choice to not help her brother, and instead cower behind Danarius.

For me the best thing is my Hawke saying "Fenris does as he likes," when she asks HAWKE to "please, don't let him do this." As if I would stop him. As if I would step in and make the choice for him or supersede his own choice. No, "Fenris does as he likes," and I'm okay with that. Even afterwards where Merrill asks if he regrets what happens with his sister:

Merrill: Do you regret it? What happened with your sister, I mean.

Fenris: No.

Merrill: You don't feel bad about killing her? Not even a little?

Fenris: It was necessary.

I don't see Fenris dwelling on it much. Varania was someone he never knew, and he thought she was an access to a new world, but it's closed forever to him (his own words) even if you let her live. There is no potential there for recompense, and I don't see him feeling guilt or remorse or anguish over killing her. Moreso I see him feeling remorse and guilt and shame for competing for the markings (which he learns only if she lives), and he doesn't even know what WE know about it. How he didn't know about the markings, how he only knew about the boon for his family. What she said was simply to torment him, not to offer friendly reconciliation. I borderline HATE Varania. The more I learn the more I actually see her as an equivalent to Hadrianna -- "A sniveling social climber who would sell her own children..."

And, yeah... I think I need to work on some fluff too, but there is some good fluff on Tumblr right now too Harle if you need a pick me up!

Modifié par Arquen, 07 décembre 2011 - 05:09 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Ah, Tumblr. I'll look when I'm done here. I've gotten another four written, but the last four are being right pains, and I daren't check Tumblr before I'm finished. XD Too much distraction!

I usually do the same, Arquen - while I can understand why someone might want Fenris not to kill his sister, I also feel it's not exactly Hawke's place to suddenly step in and say "Don't," not when Varania betrayed him.

Incidently, I have to wonder what correlation exists, if any, between people who refuse to let Fenris kill Varania, and people who make sure to bring Anders to help Bartrand and then have Varric let him live. Do the two segments overlap to a signifigant extent? If not, why? How about people who let Fenris kill Varania? Are they more or less prone to saving Bartrand's life? I could waste so much time studying these pointless questions . . . >_>

[Arcane_Solona]

Varania's fate depends on my mood when I'm playing. If I'm in a reasonably good or okay mood, she lives. If I'm pissed or broody, she dies. To be honest, I think she deserves to die too. To betray her own brother like that so easily, all for personal gain.

**** you, Varania. That's what I always say when she explains why she did it.

[ReiSilver]

I actually love Varania XD yeah, I'm weird.
I've watched that scene so many times, just her body language and her words make her seem like more then just a backstabbing, power grabber. Yes she's betrayed someone, yes she wants power, but it's for 'human' reasons, not moustache twirling/kitten killing villainy, not like what we see of Hadriana, who to me does come off as very unsympathetic/moustache twirling villainy. She's not proud of her choice, can't even bring herself to look at Fenris, and she doesn't join the fight on either side. I can see a lot of feeling powerless in her past and that she would see having power as the key to safety and agency, Fenris had an eye-opening moment with the Fog Warriors, Varania, for all we know, only ever had Tevinter and its culture to learn from and exist in.
I feel like there's so much complexity and history there that we just don't know about and that fascinates me and makes me want to learn more. Also, redemption is one of my favourite story themes and I love seeing characters grow there's a great potential for that with Varania.

[Cosmochyck]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Ah, Tumblr. I'll look when I'm done here. I've gotten another four written, but the last four are being right pains, and I daren't check Tumblr before I'm finished. XD Too much distraction!

I usually do the same, Arquen - while I can understand why someone might want Fenris not to kill his sister, I also feel it's not exactly Hawke's place to suddenly step in and say "Don't," not when Varania betrayed him.

Incidently, I have to wonder what correlation exists, if any, between people who refuse to let Fenris kill Varania, and people who make sure to bring Anders to help Bartrand and then have Varric let him live. Do the two segments overlap to a signifigant extent? If not, why? How about people who let Fenris kill Varania? Are they more or less prone to saving Bartrand's life? I could waste so much time studying these pointless questions . . . >_>

Ironically I have killed Varania on every PT but one, and let Bartrand live on every PT but one.  But now I'm curious if there is an overlap as well!
Somehow what Varania does irritates me more than what Bartrand does - Varric lets you know early on that is brother is a jackass, while Varania uses Fenris's want of his memories and old life to give him back to Danarius.  

[Dutchess]

ReiSilver, I agree with you. Not about the "I love Varania" part, but for the rest, I do.Saying someone deserves to die is a very extreme thing to say. Danarius deserved to die. So did Hadriana. But I think Varania is different case, and she doesn't come across for me as a purely evil person with no conscience whatsoever. Her motives and decisions are probably more complex than they may seem at first. She clearly struggled with the situation when Fenris entered the Hanged Man and recognized her. We don't know how hard her life has been, whether she is whining or that her statements that is was hard when her mother died are justified. But indeed, wanting to become a magister is likely not because she is "power-hungry" but that she wants to... feel safe and in control of her own life, I guess. 
I still believe Fenris may struggle with the fact he killed his sister later on. Maybe he doesn't even want to admit it to himself, but there has to be more behind the "it was necessary" attitude.

@ Arquen: I'm sure there's nothing wrong with you. There really is no golden rule about when you're supposed to cry. It differs so much per person. Besides, crying quickly isn't that great either. If a story, in a book or a fic or a movie or a song sucks you in and touches you, that is an amazing thing and the story has to be of great quality. If you just don't cry very often or quickly, it doesn't mean you're a cold, insensitive person and that the experience of the story is in anyway less than the person who is crying his eyes out. Just remember it's supposed to be a rare thing that a book really makes you cry. It's not with every slightly sad occassion: "oh, I have to cry now, because this is supposed to be sad". Don't worry about it. Besides, you said you cried at LOTR, so you're not incapable of it. I'm not that into the LOTR, so that story never really moved me that much. 
Okay, long preach perhaps, but I hope it'll make you feel better. 

Obsydian wrote...

Coffee, Black has some spots that make me tear up a bit.... but overall, yes. yes much happier.

It gets sad? Well, I'll see. Last night, when I  reached the end of chapter 18, I couldn't stop laughing. I'm still laughing when I think about those line:  

 
I pat his shoulder.
Pat. Pat. Pat.
Three times.

and: 

 “Oh, kitten,” Isabela says sadly, leaning forward as much as she can with Andy’s legs over hers, “The upside is that he keeps coming back for more of… whatever the hell it is that you’re doing.”

I just... don't even really know why I find that  "pat. pat. pat" so hilarious. It's just so... painfully awkward.  Oh, and the almost fainting part was pretty recognizable. I've lost count of how many times I've fainted. Usually my brain prefers to shut things down in public places, so msot times I wake up with several unfamiliar faces hovering over me. Lol, okay, enough personal rambling.

Modifié par renjility, 07 décembre 2011 - 02:09 .

[Annarl]

Sialater wrote...

Arquen wrote...

That's where Gaider is rather vague, Sia.. saying only:

“What effects the lyrium would have on Fenris is completely up in the air. Fenris was a test case by Danarius, the first of his kind, so anything can happen (lots of jokes about how fanfiction could go crazy on this, haha). It may make him crazy, may give him added powers, we don’t know. Also, since Danarius isn’t around anymore to “maintain” the lyrium (Gaider’s word), it could become unstable. Gaider imagines lyrium like mercury.”

Which makes it sound like even Danarius really didn't know what kind of effect the lyrium would have on Fenris in the end. However, he protected his investment. I agree with omearaee though that Fenris would remember an active, physical spell or maintenance being performed on him. I lean more toward Danarius placed a protection spell or seal during the ritual as a one time deal that was to protect the subject so it could survive the branding and resist the lyrium corruption during the process.

So, I doubt Danarius could hold that over Fenris because Fenris was the first of his kind. Danarius probably didn't know if the lyrium would kill him, make him stronger, or what. No doubt though he took precautions to protect his investment, and so that might be where this "maintaining" word comes from.

Still, as everyone says.. all very obtuse and speculative, but I like theorycrafting. It was how I got to my head!canon of what was in the box, and look there... I was right.. when it finally got confirmed by Gaider that it was info on his family. So, yeah.. I just like bouncing theory around. Don't mind me.

No, I'm saying if there's the least chance that Danarius could have used it as a hold over Fenris, he would have used it.   I know Gaidar said "maintain" but that makes no sense unless it was something simple Fenris could do on his own or Hawke could figure out, thereby negating the hold Danarius had over him so that no one even brings it up.  If maintanance was needed, it should have been mentioned.  And it wasn't.  Unless it was somewhere and we all missed it?

As far as abilities.... I speculate Fenris might "itch" or have a skin-crawly feeling around areas where the veil is thin or torn like Sundermount or the Bone Pit.  Hell, maybe one of the reasons he and Anders can't stand each other is the Lyrium/Justice dissonance.  (Not attraction, dissonance.)  Like they literally, physically, set each other's teeth on edge, make each other's skin crawl.

Very interesting thought especially for Fenris.  But wasn't Justice attracted to lyrium in Awakenings?  Wasn't one of his gift a ring of lyrium but I could be mis-remembering. 

However, looking at it this way could explain a lot of their hostility.

[Sialater]

omearaee wrote...

Sialater wrote...

Arquen wrote...

That's where Gaider is rather vague, Sia.. saying only:

“What effects the lyrium would have on Fenris is completely up in the air. Fenris was a test case by Danarius, the first of his kind, so anything can happen (lots of jokes about how fanfiction could go crazy on this, haha). It may make him crazy, may give him added powers, we don’t know. Also, since Danarius isn’t around anymore to “maintain” the lyrium (Gaider’s word), it could become unstable. Gaider imagines lyrium like mercury.”

Which makes it sound like even Danarius really didn't know what kind of effect the lyrium would have on Fenris in the end. However, he protected his investment. I agree with omearaee though that Fenris would remember an active, physical spell or maintenance being performed on him. I lean more toward Danarius placed a protection spell or seal during the ritual as a one time deal that was to protect the subject so it could survive the branding and resist the lyrium corruption during the process.

So, I doubt Danarius could hold that over Fenris because Fenris was the first of his kind. Danarius probably didn't know if the lyrium would kill him, make him stronger, or what. No doubt though he took precautions to protect his investment, and so that might be where this "maintaining" word comes from.

Still, as everyone says.. all very obtuse and speculative, but I like theorycrafting. It was how I got to my head!canon of what was in the box, and look there... I was right.. when it finally got confirmed by Gaider that it was info on his family. So, yeah.. I just like bouncing theory around. Don't mind me.

No, I'm saying if there's the least chance that Danarius could have used it as a hold over Fenris, he would have used it.   I know Gaidar said "maintain" but that makes no sense unless it was something simple Fenris could do on his own or Hawke could figure out, thereby negating the hold Danarius had over him so that no one even brings it up.  If maintanance was needed, it should have been mentioned.  And it wasn't.  Unless it was somewhere and we all missed it?

As far as abilities.... I speculate Fenris might "itch" or have a skin-crawly feeling around areas where the veil is thin or torn like Sundermount or the Bone Pit.  Hell, maybe one of the reasons he and Anders can't stand each other is the Lyrium/Justice dissonance.  (Not attraction, dissonance.)  Like they literally, physically, set each other's teeth on edge, make each other's skin crawl.

Very interesting thought especially for Fenris.  But wasn't Justice attracted to lyrium in Awakenings?  Wasn't one of his gift a ring of lyrium but I could be mis-remembering. 

However, looking at it this way could explain a lot of their hostility.

Yes, but he's now in a living MAGE host.  He can't go wallowing in lyrium anymore.  And whatever was done to the lyrium to get it into Fenris may have made it's "song" change for Justice.

[Annarl]

Obsydian wrote...

yay for more stories that make me cry. There's one Mass Effect story (oddly enough, also on the k-meme) that brings me to a ball of tears every time..... lets see if this one can beat it. Its called 100 Year Distance and any ME fans should totally read it. its Garrus/femShep.

Re: killing Anders. This being my first PT... i haven't yet decided if its the right move. I really do love Anders. I do.. i just... i don't condone what he did. I don't like mages in general really... the only one who proves ever not to be retarded and blood mage-ish is your sister... and ... i dunno. I'm just really really twitch about them. Not that I think Templars or genocide is the correct solution. That was always my biggest problem with this game.... just.... its too black and white. There needs to be a grey area.... My PC PT is a mage though, so i'll obviously be siding with the mages there. I just love Seb too much to watch him leave. its a lose lose for me. Either way I lose a character that I love.

I have played it both ways myself.  I just let the character I was roleplaying decide.  On one playthrough it made total sense for that Hawke to let Anders live and try to redeem himself. And for the other Hawke it made total sense to kill him, as a matter of justice for those killed and those who will be killed.

@Arquen, I'm not much of a cryer myself. And there's nothing wrong with that, people show emotions in different ways. I tend to be private with my emotions.  I can remember watching some sappy movie with my friends (years ago) and their all crying and I'm thinking when will this be over...please be over soon.  I'm more action oriented.

[Annarl]

Sialater wrote...

snip

Yes, but he's now in a living MAGE host.  He can't go wallowing in lyrium anymore.  And whatever was done to the lyrium to get it into Fenris may have made it's "song" change for Justice.

Very true.  It's a very interesting idea.  And it could potentially explain their instant almost visceral dislike/distrust of one another.  

Modifié par omearaee, 07 décembre 2011 - 03:51 .

[syllogi]

Sialater wrote...

Yes, but he's now in a living MAGE host.  He can't go wallowing in lyrium anymore.  And whatever was done to the lyrium to get it into Fenris may have made it's "song" change for Justice.

Especially since Fenris's abilities are all about magic resistance and hurting mages, I think you may be right.  Even if the lyrium attraction was still there, what Fenris represents would be pretty abhorent to Justice.

[Sialater]

So... this brings up a new question. We're all wondering if Fenris had something done to HIM to survive... what if the lyrium were also processed in a new way to get into a form suitable for tattooing? It had to be mixed with something to make it possible, since it's crystaline in it's original state, not liquid.

Modifié par Sialater, 07 décembre 2011 - 04:07 .

[Harle Cerulean]

I wouldn't necessarily say Fenris' abilities are all about hurting mages - they're about hurting ANYTHING. He does get a lot of magic resistance, but unlike Tallis, his tree doesn't contain any skills that have bonuses against magic-users or people who cast spells on him. He deflects magic better thanks to the lyrium, but he's specialized to kill everything in general, not to kill mages in specific.

[syllogi]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I wouldn't necessarily say Fenris' abilities are all about hurting mages - they're about hurting ANYTHING. He does get a lot of magic resistance, but unlike Tallis, his tree doesn't contain any skills that have bonuses against magic-users or people who cast spells on him. He deflects magic better thanks to the lyrium, but he's specialized to kill everything in general, not to kill mages in specific.

35 or 45 percent magic resistance specifically from his specialization tree seems like he was created with fighting mages in mind, and it wouldn't be surprising if Danarius created the tattoos because wanted to use Fenris to protect him against rival mages.

[Sialater]

syllogi wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I wouldn't necessarily say Fenris' abilities are all about hurting mages - they're about hurting ANYTHING. He does get a lot of magic resistance, but unlike Tallis, his tree doesn't contain any skills that have bonuses against magic-users or people who cast spells on him. He deflects magic better thanks to the lyrium, but he's specialized to kill everything in general, not to kill mages in specific.

35 or 45 percent magic resistance specifically from his specialization tree seems like he was created with fighting mages in mind, and it wouldn't be surprising if Danarius created the tattoos because wanted to use Fenris to protect him against rival mages.

More likely against Saarabas.

[Obsydian]

renjility wrote...


*snips* 

Obsydian wrote...

Coffee, Black has some spots that make me tear up a bit.... but overall, yes. yes much happier.

It gets sad? Well, I'll see. Last night, when I  reached the end of chapter 18, I couldn't stop laughing. I'm still laughing when I think about those line:  

 
I pat his shoulder.
Pat. Pat. Pat.
Three times.

and: 

 “Oh, kitten,” Isabela says sadly, leaning forward as much as she can with Andy’s legs over hers, “The upside is that he keeps coming back for more of… whatever the hell it is that you’re doing.”

I just... don't even really know why I find that  "pat. pat. pat" so hilarious. It's just so... painfully awkward.  Oh, and the almost fainting part was pretty recognizable. I've lost count of how many times I've fainted. Usually my brain prefers to shut things down in public places, so msot times I wake up with several unfamiliar faces hovering over me. Lol, okay, enough personal rambling.

not sad... persay, but ....  emotional. heavy.   somewhere around chapter 40-something.  

and I LOVE THAT PART.   this story has made me love Isabela and Anders and Merrill...   that story has literally become my headcanon for the characters. 

[Arcane_Solona]

@Obsy " that story has literally become my headcanon for the characters"

Oh my gosh! I KNOW, RIGHT?! Me too!!

That story is my life force. I can't function without it.

[Harle Cerulean]

syllogi wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I wouldn't necessarily say Fenris' abilities are all about hurting mages - they're about hurting ANYTHING. He does get a lot of magic resistance, but unlike Tallis, his tree doesn't contain any skills that have bonuses against magic-users or people who cast spells on him. He deflects magic better thanks to the lyrium, but he's specialized to kill everything in general, not to kill mages in specific.

35 or 45 percent magic resistance specifically from his specialization tree seems like he was created with fighting mages in mind, and it wouldn't be surprising if Danarius created the tattoos because wanted to use Fenris to protect him against rival mages.

I do agree that Fenris was intended to be able to serve as a bodyguard against mages, among other possible attackers, but if you compare his specialty tree to Tallis', or the Templar tree, you'll see the difference I'm talking about.  

Fenris has a great deal of magic resistance, yes, but all of his offensive abilities work equally against all enemies, none of them are specifically targeted towards magic-users.  That is why I'm saying that you can't really say he's specialized for hurting mages; he's not.  He's specialized in defending against them, but not hurting them, since his abilities aren't extra-damaging to them.  

His tree is more like the Reaver specialty than the Templar specialty (though still different enough from the Reaver tree that I steam at the ears when people suggest he's a Reaver; uh, no, do you see Devour anywhere in his abilities?).  The only similarities to the Templar tree in Fenris' specialty are lyrium-based magical resistence and a spirit damage AoE, but Fenris' AoE, unlike the Templar AoE, is not able to be ugraded to be specially effective against spellcasters.  Meanwhile, the Reaver tree has a spirit damage AoE (which also damages them, unlike Fenris' AoE), and shares the passive talent that increases combat damage dealt in inverse proportion to health remaining, as well as the passive ability that grants increased combat speed after killing an enemy, in common with Fenris' tree.

We know that specifically anti-mage specialties exist, in both the forms of Templar and Tallis' specialties, so saying that Fenris' tree is especially anti-mage is patently false.  His only specifically anti-magic abilities are his increased defense against magic, which is essentially a side effect of having so much lyrium in him.  Was it an intended side effect?  Quite possibly.  Does it make Fenris more effective against mages than other foes?  Only in that he'll take less magical damage while beating them up than, say, Aveline would - his ability to harm them is no stronger than his ability to kill anything else.

Which is pretty darn strong all around, mind you!  

[Harle Cerulean]

@ Arcane_Solona, Obsydian: That's not really what headcanon means . . .? Headcanon doesn't mean an AU idea you like, it means something that isn't specified within the canon which you consider to have happened. For example, one headcanon would be that the red cloth around Fenris' wrist is actually Hawke's underpants that Fenris grabbed on his way out of the room. Coffee, Black cannot be part of headcanon because it and the game are completely seperate, aside from sharing characters of the same names and some similar personality traits.

(Don't get me wrong, I like Coffee, Black! It's entertaining. But It's not compatible with actual canon. You can't have barista!Merrill and Isabela living in actual canon Kirkwall, for example.)