Aller au contenu

Photo

The Official Fenris Discussion thread


55380 réponses à ce sujet

#48526
gingergen

gingergen
  • Members
  • 182 messages
Okay, I am ages behind, and this is my first time in this thread (hi!), but...

Arquen wrote...

My favorite thing in the world is when Varania looks at Hawke and goes "please, don't LET him do this." and Hawke takes a step back and goes "Fenris does as he LIKES." To me that says more about free choice and letting Fenris truly be free in one moment than anything else.
...
The point is I think for Fenris it isn't wise or fair for Hawke to be the one who chastises him or tells him what decisions he should make.


This is something I've been grappling with in a fic I've been writing (my first ever, *ulp*). I love me some Fenris, and I am friendmancing the crap out of him, but honestly, his relationship with Hawke isn't very healthy, is it?  Fenris was a slave, and then he escaped and did his own thing (even if that was mostly running), and then he met Hawke and now he's... following her/him around. And depending on how you play that... he's sort of made Hawke his new master, in a way. All her other companions have hobbies (for lack of a better word) - Anders has the clinic and the mage underground, Aveline has the guard, Merrill has her mirror, Varric has is stories and other business interests, and Isabella has... I dunno, catting around and stealing relics and drinking. Fenris sits in that moldy old mansion and waits. For Danarius but also for Hawke. (He starts interacting more with other characters in his off time in act 3, but certainly this is the case in the first 2 acts.)

Being free is hard. You have to self-motivate. And Fenris is more running FROM his past life than he is running TOWARDS anything. So I think in a way it's easy for him to let  Hawke say "go here, come with me, fight these guys, kill this person, don't kill this person" when maybe he should be figuring out who HE is as a free elf. For that reason, my Hawke always lets him choose. Because making choices is hard, and it's something he has to do for himself.

(And am I the only person who thinks of Dobby every time they hear the phrase "free elf"?)

#48527
gingergen

gingergen
  • Members
  • 182 messages
And for fear of re-opening any cans of worms I will jump to the pet question and say -- Fenris seems pretty cat-like in attitude (totally agree with whoever it was that said Abyssinian) but IMO I think he'd be one of those people who claims not to be interested in animals, and would might bond with a cat or dog when no one else is around, but would totally deny it after the fact. Kind of like Sten. :)

#48528
AbsoluteApril

AbsoluteApril
  • Members
  • 771 messages
Fenris can be very catlike in his movements, the way he looks at people and things, the way he 'pounces' at Hawke, to kiss him/her in the 2nd wall kiss and gallows kiss.
Posted Image

gingergen wrote...
All her other companions have hobbies (for lack of a better word) -


I don't quite agree with that, Fenris goes and plays cards with the gang at the Hanged Man and he hangs out with Donnic. I think he is quite independent, he goes out looking for his sister all on his own.

My Fenmancing Hawkes will always let Fenris make the decision on what to do if given the option 'what do you think Fenris?' - let him decide to kill Kelder in Magistrate's Orders, let's him decide what to do with Hadriana (my favorite); plus, as dear sweet Fenris says "I enjoy following you"
I dont really see it as him viewing Hawke as his new master, although I did think the red arm band and crest are kind of an 'ownership marking' that I originally found disturbing, after seeing that any companion gets a 'new look' once romanced, it didn't bother me any longer
Posted Image

Posted Image
by ~sekai1782 on DA

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 07 février 2012 - 12:23 .


#48529
AbsoluteApril

AbsoluteApril
  • Members
  • 771 messages

gingergen wrote...

Okay, I am ages behind, and this is my first time in this thread (hi!), but...



oh and is this your first time to the Fenris Thread??! awesome! I know you from the AliThread

#48530
aldien

aldien
  • Members
  • 1 018 messages

gingergen wrote...

Okay, I am ages behind, and this is my first time in this thread (hi!), but...

Arquen wrote...

My favorite thing in the world is when Varania looks at Hawke and goes "please, don't LET him do this." and Hawke takes a step back and goes "Fenris does as he LIKES." To me that says more about free choice and letting Fenris truly be free in one moment than anything else.
...
The point is I think for Fenris it isn't wise or fair for Hawke to be the one who chastises him or tells him what decisions he should make.


This is something I've been grappling with in a fic I've been writing (my first ever, *ulp*). I love me some Fenris, and I am friendmancing the crap out of him, but honestly, his relationship with Hawke isn't very healthy, is it?  Fenris was a slave, and then he escaped and did his own thing (even if that was mostly running), and then he met Hawke and now he's... following her/him around. And depending on how you play that... he's sort of made Hawke his new master, in a way. All her other companions have hobbies (for lack of a better word) - Anders has the clinic and the mage underground, Aveline has the guard, Merrill has her mirror, Varric has is stories and other business interests, and Isabella has... I dunno, catting around and stealing relics and drinking. Fenris sits in that moldy old mansion and waits. For Danarius but also for Hawke. (He starts interacting more with other characters in his off time in act 3, but certainly this is the case in the first 2 acts.)

Being free is hard. You have to self-motivate. And Fenris is more running FROM his past life than he is running TOWARDS anything. So I think in a way it's easy for him to let  Hawke say "go here, come with me, fight these guys, kill this person, don't kill this person" when maybe he should be figuring out who HE is as a free elf. For that reason, my Hawke always lets him choose. Because making choices is hard, and it's something he has to do for himself.

(And am I the only person who thinks of Dobby every time they hear the phrase "free elf"?)


I really like your post. It's so perceptive. I have also wondered the same thing. He says: I am yours, I like following you, command me to go, all of these things either portray ownership or orders, in my opinion. Now, this may be the only way Fenris knows how to communicate with people. I doubt Danarius allowed him a large repertoire of phrases. But, you have to wonder, how exactly is he seeing his relationship with Hawke? What experience outside of Danarius does he have that he remembers? The Fog Warriors were brief and a completely foreign concept. Is it easier for him to follow than to think for himself? I don't know, but it's interesting to dissect.

On the one hand, letting him choose seems the right thing. On the other, all he knows is killing. He kills and he regrets and then he has guilt, which seems to eat away at him.

I think you are on to a very unique viewpoint concerning Fenris. Stick with it and don't be afraid to write something different. :) Good luck!

Modifié par aldien, 07 février 2012 - 12:54 .


#48531
gingergen

gingergen
  • Members
  • 182 messages
Yes, that's right! Alistair ftw! I got DA2 a while ago, but didn't get into it until recently, for whatever reason.

I didn't notice that the other companions get a new look (the only other one I've romanced was Anders) -- that does actually help. He's so... branded. And the game (I haven't quite finished this play through but nothing so far) doesn't actually give you a chance to talk about it.

I agree that Fen does go off and do other things in his own time - but not until later. He looks for his sister during the 3 years post act 2, and he mentions playing cards with Donnic but not until act 3.

However, I concede that my psuedo-master statement is controversial. :) I don't mean to say "This is so" just "This is something that I've been thinking about." It never occurred to me until I was writing this fic.

For *ahem* research purposes, I watched the post-Hadriana cutscene a bazillion times, and I couldn't help but notice that (in the friendmance - might be different in rivalmance?) Fenris grabs Hawke, but then Hawke does the kissing and the wall-slamming. And then as he's leaving he says "this is too fast" and I went... hmm, she didn't really give him a chance to say no, did she? He was emotionally if not actually a virgin, and they went straight from first kiss to wall-slamming and sexing. Not that he *couldn't* have stopped her. I'm just glad that *my* first time didn't have that kind of dynamic, you know? I was just thinking it can be hard to say no to someone you love, and it's not like he's had a lot of practice. Which is why he has no middle "hey, I like you, but can we slow down" option -- only yes or "run away".

Anyway, yes. Happy to hear thoughts and counter arguments! I was just curious if anyone else had similar thoughts.

#48532
gingergen

gingergen
  • Members
  • 182 messages
Yay, aldien! Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only person who has had this line of thinking. :)

#48533
UrsulaCousland

UrsulaCousland
  • Members
  • 953 messages

AbsoluteApril wrote...

gingergen wrote...

Okay, I am ages behind, and this is my first time in this thread (hi!), but...



oh and is this your first time to the Fenris Thread??! awesome! I know you from the AliThread


Fresh meat - I mean, new members! *slides over the first plate of fresh, virtual non-fattening cookies in *ages* * :)

I don't have much to add currently but seriously, welcome, and some well-reasoned debate like this is welcome, I think. :)

EDIT: Oh yeah, I got my start in the Ali thread too. *waves*

Modifié par UrsulaCousland, 07 février 2012 - 01:49 .


#48534
gingergen

gingergen
  • Members
  • 182 messages
Thanks for the welcome, UrsulaCousland!

#48535
aldien

aldien
  • Members
  • 1 018 messages

ladyofpayne wrote...

Femele from Fenris is perfect. But sa male he is too wniny.


Привет, К сожалению, я пока не говорю по-русски.:(  Я бы хотел

Modifié par aldien, 07 février 2012 - 02:37 .


#48536
Ghost_Nappa

Ghost_Nappa
  • Members
  • 615 messages

aldien wrote...

ladyofpayne wrote...

Femele from Fenris is perfect. But sa male he is too wniny.


Привет, К сожалению, я пока не говорю по-русски.:(  Я бы хотел





Wow I must of missed this post. Errr hello my russian friend, I hope I didn't do the awful assumption you're Russian, but anyway welcome to the thread. (Whats with the frowny face Ald?)


Edit: ok after rereading her post and the two replies after it...frankly I am not angry...just upset at ladyofpayne's post taken as a troll post when english isnt her first language. Wow..dont know what to say except maybe tsk tsk?

Modifié par Ghost_Nappa, 07 février 2012 - 02:54 .


#48537
Harle Cerulean

Harle Cerulean
  • Members
  • 679 messages
Dude, she is a troll. I don't call her a troll because her English is poor, I call her a troll because she only ever comes in here to bash Fenris; just like she bashes Isabela in the Isabela thread (and starts threads just to bash Isabela), etc.

#48538
Ghost_Nappa

Ghost_Nappa
  • Members
  • 615 messages
Well isnt it better to not talk about trolls by turning the other cheek...or you know not shtooping to their level and starve them of their attention nourishment?

EIther way everyone has opinions good, bad or completely 'the hell'.

Changing subject for the better:
Something not really thought out, but what movie would you match with fenris in either personality, fighting style or 'hobbies'?

#48539
aldien

aldien
  • Members
  • 1 018 messages
Wow..dont know what to say except maybe tsk tsk?

I can't say what I think because there are preschool toys present.

Before I get accused of not being on topic. Here we go. One of my favs. Weeeeeeeeeeee....


Posted Image

By: alas_de_metal


By the way, LadyofPayne wasn't bashing Fenris. She was stating an opinion.  Just in case it got lost in translation there.

Modifié par aldien, 07 février 2012 - 03:30 .


#48540
Ghost_Nappa

Ghost_Nappa
  • Members
  • 615 messages

aldien wrote...

Wow..dont know what to say except maybe tsk tsk?

I can't say what I think because there are preschool toys present.

Before I get accused of not being on topic. Here we go. One of my favs. Weeeeeeeeeeee....


Posted Image

By: alas_de_metal


By the way, LadyofPayne wasn't bashing Fenris. She was stating an opinion.


Welp now Ill think of this come easter....or name a killer rabbit fenris. Hmmm one always need a killer rabbit Fenris to guard their evil cave.

#48541
aldien

aldien
  • Members
  • 1 018 messages
LOL! Nasty horrible teeth!!

My husband corrupted me with Monty Python

Modifié par aldien, 07 février 2012 - 03:45 .


#48542
Ghost_Nappa

Ghost_Nappa
  • Members
  • 615 messages
You might corrupt me if you keep that up...had a movie back on topic.
Snatch: Personality bits from all the cast molded into one. Dunno why.

#48543
aldien

aldien
  • Members
  • 1 018 messages
Braveheart! No I'm joking. ROFL don't hold that against me Fenris!

You'll never take our freedom... now give me another pint.

Modifié par aldien, 07 février 2012 - 03:55 .


#48544
aldien

aldien
  • Members
  • 1 018 messages

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

You might corrupt me if you keep that up...had a movie back on topic.
Snatch: Personality bits from all the cast molded into one. Dunno why.


Hmmm isn't the tmovie more suited to Isabela?

Modifié par aldien, 07 février 2012 - 04:03 .


#48545
gingergen

gingergen
  • Members
  • 182 messages

aldien wrote...

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

Snatch: Personality bits from all the cast molded into one. Dunno why.


Hmmm isn't the tmovie more suited to Isabela?


*rimshot*  :devil:

If I had to choose a film/literature character for Fenris, the first one that comes to mind is Mr. Rochester.
(Though he's so handsome, it would have to be the Timothy Dalton version.)

... aaaaand that both explains why I'm drawn to Fenris, and an awful lot about me.

#48546
Ghost_Nappa

Ghost_Nappa
  • Members
  • 615 messages

aldien wrote...

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

You might corrupt me if you keep that up...had a movie back on topic.
Snatch: Personality bits from all the cast molded into one. Dunno why.


Hmmm isn't the tmovie more suited to Isabela?


I figured Crank would fit Isabella, but Im sticking with my choice. I mean it was that or Kill Bill for fighting style, but it feels weird seeing Fenris as 'the bride'.:ph34r:

#48547
CuriousArtemis

CuriousArtemis
  • Members
  • 19 656 messages

I mean it was that or Kill Bill for fighting style, but it feels weird seeing Fenris as 'the bride'.:ph34r:


He's my Hawke's "bride" :wub:

*gets bricked* :devil:

Okay, movie, let's see ... Cinderella :devil:

#48548
Night Dreams

Night Dreams
  • Members
  • 109 messages
I always sort of think of Fenris as a Wolverine-esque type character, with the whole loss of memory after being changed into a human weapon, and then swearing revenge on all those who wronged him and turned him into what he now is, whilst using the very powers they gave him and trying to regain some of his lost memories. That's fine with me, however, as I have a rather soft spot for Wolverine :)

#48549
Tashash

Tashash
  • Members
  • 1 040 messages

Night Dreams wrote...

I always sort of think of Fenris as a Wolverine-esque type character, with the whole loss of memory after being changed into a human weapon, and then swearing revenge on all those who wronged him and turned him into what he now is, whilst using the very powers they gave him and trying to regain some of his lost memories. That's fine with me, however, as I have a rather soft spot for Wolverine :)


Oh thank the Maker, I'm not the only one! Fenris does seem rather Wolverine-esque from that point of view yes? And I LOVE Wolverine.

On the music question from a while back - I've always personally considered 'Night of the Hunter' by 30 Seconds to Mars as Fenris' unoffical theme song.

Also, welcome new Fen-fan Gingergen.

Modifié par Tashash, 07 février 2012 - 11:50 .


#48550
kemz19691

kemz19691
  • Members
  • 194 messages

gingergen wrote...

Yes, that's right! Alistair ftw! I got DA2 a while ago, but didn't get into it until recently, for whatever reason.

I didn't notice that the other companions get a new look (the only other one I've romanced was Anders) -- that does actually help. He's so... branded. And the game (I haven't quite finished this play through but nothing so far) doesn't actually give you a chance to talk about it.

I agree that Fen does go off and do other things in his own time - but not until later. He looks for his sister during the 3 years post act 2, and he mentions playing cards with Donnic but not until act 3.

However, I concede that my psuedo-master statement is controversial. :) I don't mean to say "This is so" just "This is something that I've been thinking about." It never occurred to me until I was writing this fic.

For *ahem* research purposes, I watched the post-Hadriana cutscene a bazillion times, and I couldn't help but notice that (in the friendmance - might be different in rivalmance?) Fenris grabs Hawke, but then Hawke does the kissing and the wall-slamming. And then as he's leaving he says "this is too fast" and I went... hmm, she didn't really give him a chance to say no, did she? He was emotionally if not actually a virgin, and they went straight from first kiss to wall-slamming and sexing. Not that he *couldn't* have stopped her. I'm just glad that *my* first time didn't have that kind of dynamic, you know? I was just thinking it can be hard to say no to someone you love, and it's not like he's had a lot of practice. Which is why he has no middle "hey, I like you, but can we slow down" option -- only yes or "run away".

Anyway, yes. Happy to hear thoughts and counter arguments! I was just curious if anyone else had similar thoughts.


I agree with your views on this. 

Fenris is a runaway slave trying to start some form of new life in Kirkwall while awaiting a (final) confrontation with Danarius. He's not aggressive, is he? Conditioning from slavery.  When we first meet Fenris during his recruitment, he tells Hawke/Companions that Danarius kept him 'caged like a Qunari mage" to mock their customs.  We learn later after his battle with Hadrianna, that he wasn't a complete "dead soul" (e.g., he wanted to defend himself against Hadrianna's torments but he couldn't because of her station) - that he wasn't as broken as we thought. 

Problem is - "his chains are broken but he's not really free".  He's been so conditioned, he doesn't know how to make decisions for himself.  Running away from Danarius was really the only decision Fenris has made for himself. However, we learn that he "thinks" about what to do with his life. Problem is, he asks Hawke to help him make decisions.  I think he asks Hawke because he trusts her/him, something he probably wasn't used to doing. He mentions that in one of their conversations - that he didn't allow anyone close b/c of his body's memory of pain, but also becuase he couldn't really trust anyone.  If betrayed or if he choses to fight for Templars vs. Hawke, he may mention that he shouldn't let anyone close, which is the first law of survival.

To quote Fenris, that he is capable of feeling anything is something.  He is an amazing character in the game and I find it difficult to ignore his need. This is one of the only characters in the game (imo) that we see actually evolve.  Fenris speaks his mind boldy, but is often sensitive to how his words affects others particuarly Hawke.  He is terribly damaged. But I think there's more to Fenris as alluded to by Verania. I think pre-ritual, Fenris was ambitious, ruthless and status-conscience.  *Spoiler* Although he helped to free his family, I think he would have competed even without the boon.

I don't like the assumptions we're asked to make if Hawke doesn't romance Fenris - that is, he will hook up with Isabela. I think Bioware should have assigned Fenris to Varric for business training - they could have gone into business together, Fenris would work through some of his trust issues and put closure to his past. I would have hoped Fenris would re-connect with his people - the Elvhen, OR that he would take Sebastian up on the offer to relocate to Starkhaven.  Putting Fenris with Isabela for sex cheapens his character and his import to the story. At least Bioware didn't have Fenris selling services at the Blooming Rose :?

Fenris is one of the more complex characters - like Sebastian (another character I think people miss on) or Merrill, and I think the developers mitigated his role in Act 3 too much.  In other words, after he frees himself, the developers don't know what to do with him.

I, too, am writing some fanfiction. Would you link your work? ^_^