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[CuriousArtemis]

aldien wrote...

Why in Thedas did they do that? That is just the weirdest piece of insecurity dialogue I have ever seen placed in a game. I've heard lots of people complain about MHawke's dialogue. In your opinion, is his dialogue not well written? I find most of FHawke's dialogue an emotionless pit. But, that's probably just me.

Well, believe it or not, there are people in other threads who think the "division" or difference between gay and straight romances isn't apparent ENOUGH, so they want MORE of this crap.  You know what I bet doesn't occur? FemHawke asking Merrill or Isabela if it's okay because they're both women.  Yeah, you can bet your ASS that line doesn't exist.

Other than that ... perhaps one or two more?  I think the lines are the same for Fem and M!Hawke.  Aww, so you don't like her lines to him?  I think they're fine.  I mean, sometimes they're cheesy ... but ... oh, I think we can all agree that the best romance line in the game is when sarcastic Hawke rolls his/her eyes and says, "Oh, I dunno, it might be fun holding that over you." LOL ass hole!

Modifié par motomotogirl, 08 février 2012 - 05:39 .

[Dutchess]

motomotogirl wrote...

renjility wrote...

Diplomatic female Hawke can aks him: "your markings, they hurt, don't they?"
And Fenris responds: "it's not that." He says that quite absentmindedly, dismissive, like he had almost forgotten about that part already. Pain/physical discomfort was not the main issue here. It is not the reason he pulls away. If it had really been that antagonizing for him, I think he would have broken it off sooner.

And this is what pisses me off about the M!Hawke x Fenris romance.  See, we never get that line.  We get some stupid "Is it because I'm a man?" line.  Yeah, like Fenris is going to be all, "You know, you're right Hawke.  I totally thought I was gay but it turns out I'm not.  Sorry, man!"  I mean, dumbest post-coital line in the history of post-coital lines.  Why can't diplomatic M!Hawke have the same line as diplomatic FemHawke.  Why doesn't SHE have to say, "Is it because I'm a woman?" (ROFL How hilarious would that be.  Imagnie Fenris' expression.  "Um ... no, that's not it, Hawke.")  

So FemHawke romance gets a nice little plot bumper while M!Hawke is just making sure the guy he just had awesome sex with is still gay.

I mean, WTF.

Haha, indeed. I was very surprised when I finally chose that line (have played the male Hawke-Fenris love scene over and over for writing ) instead of the witty one,  and not hear Hawke ask about the markings. "Is it because I'm a man?" Lol, very out of place, very irrelevant. 

About Fenris finding Varania: yeah, we know he asks Aveline for help at some point. But it's not clear whether she actually aided in the search, or he just asked her to look for anything suspicious when she is finally coming to Kirkwall. I have made up that he asks for Varric's help as well for the real search, because he seems to have a lot of connections and could be very useful. But there is no indication in-game that Varric had anything to do with it.

Edit: almost TOP again.



By alsiony

Modifié par renjility, 08 février 2012 - 05:46 .

[gingergen]

motomotogirl wrote...

So FemHawke romance gets a nice
little plot bumper while M!Hawke is just making sure the guy he just had
awesome sex with is still gay.

Boo! That sucks.

... I'm afraid to ask if they use the same "... it's not that" reaction either way. I could somehow see them doing that.

And I would like to tangentially state for the record? The voice acting in this game is awesome. It's usually a sticking point for me, but I found all the primary voice actors to be really strong. Also the Fenris voice dude needs to come to my house and read me stories at bedtime, for serious.

[aldien]

motomotogirl wrote...

aldien wrote...

Why in Thedas did they do that? That is just the weirdest piece of insecurity dialogue I have ever seen placed in a game. I've heard lots of people complain about MHawke's dialogue. In your opinion, is his dialogue not well written? I find most of FHawke's dialogue an emotionless pit. But, that's probably just me.

Well, believe it or not, there are people in other threads who think the "division" or difference between gay and straight romances isn't apparent ENOUGH, so they want MORE of this crap.  You know what I bet doesn't occur? FemHawke asking Merrill or Isabela if it's okay because they're both women.  Yeah, you can bet your ASS that line doesn't exist.

Other than that ... perhaps one or two more?  I think the lines are the same for Fem and M!Hawke.  Aww, so you don't like her lines to him?  I think they're fine.  I mean, sometimes they're cheesy ... but ... oh, I think we can all agree that the best romance line in the game is when sarcastic Hawke rolls his/her eyes and says, "Oh, I dunno, it might be fun holding that over you." LOL ass hole!

It shouldn't be up to them. I think it's fair to say that was bad judgment call on the developer's part. And how on earth does that really seperate the romances? If they really want to seperate them then there should be completely different dialogues for both bar stupid questions!

Yes, and I know why that doesn't occur or at least I feel 95% sure why FHawke never asks Merrill or Isabela the same ridiculous question.

I don't dislike all of her lines to Fenris just the corny ones and ones that seem totally out of place. I personally find a Diplomatic Hawke a complete ass to him.  I know weird. I was getting at the fact that Hawke overall just seems like an emotionless pit compared to her companions. He sleeps with her and then walks away and she sits there!  Silly cow. She at least needed to kick him in the butt or throw something.

I shouldn't complain about FHawke's dialogue to Fenris. People who love Anders should complain about FHawke's dialogue.

"Oh, I dunno, it might be fun holding that over you."

I do like that one. It's better than: I understand I always understood. Whaaa??? Get some self respect woman! Who understands a man that doesn't say sorry for three years? Who understands any man for that matter. I don't.

Modifié par aldien, 08 février 2012 - 06:06 .

[Tealsie]

gingergen wrote...

And I would like to tangentially state for the record? The voice acting in this game is awesome. It's usually a sticking point for me, but I found all the primary voice actors to be really strong. Also the Fenris voice dude needs to come to my house and read me stories at bedtime, for serious.

I think we all would like that.  The closest we can get is to buy one of the audiobook things that Gideon has voiced/narrated and play that.

motomotogirl wrote...
Other than that ... perhaps one or two more?  I think the lines are the same for Fem and M!Hawke.  Aww, so you don't like her lines to him?  I think they're fine.  I mean, sometimes they're cheesy ... but ... oh, I think we can all agree that the best romance line in the game is when sarcastic Hawke rolls his/her eyes and says, "Oh, I dunno, it might be fun holding that over you." LOL ass hole!

I'm kind of partial to "Want a sandwich?" SarcastiHawke is the best mood-killer in existence.

I'm not sure about how lines may/may not be different for Lady Hawke and Merrill, but there doesn't seem to be anything different with FemHawkexIsabela. The fact that they're both women in that one is never even mentioned, so far as I've found(haven't tried ALL dialogue options yet). So it seems like it is just with the male LIs. Since Ander's dialogue is different depending on gender too.

[Dutchess]

gingergen wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

So FemHawke romance gets a nice
little plot bumper while M!Hawke is just making sure the guy he just had
awesome sex with is still gay.

Boo! That sucks.

... I'm afraid to ask if they use the same "... it's not that" reaction either way. I could somehow see them doing that.

And I would like to tangentially state for the record? The voice acting in this game is awesome. It's usually a sticking point for me, but I found all the primary voice actors to be really strong. Also the Fenris voice dude needs to come to my house and read me stories at bedtime, for serious.

I'm sorry to say that: oh yes, they do. You get the same "it's not that" when you ask about the man thing. 

Gideon Emery reading bedtime stories sounds like an excellent idea though.

[Sealy]

Bah, progress is all in freaking baby steps, and it's annoying for those who have already progressed past the " I need to hear you make it clear to me that I just romanced a guy with a guy. Long time to go where the romances are just treated equally. I mean clearly there should be a distiction between issues, no male Hawkes running around worrying about possible children coming from their tryst, If there are to be issues at all. There is no reason my Hawke should be concerned that Fenris doesn't like males... they already slept together. T'was somewhat ridiculous, but whats done is done and we can only hope that people on both sides stop demanding validation for their choices.

Modifié par Fleshdress, 08 février 2012 - 06:29 .

[gingergen]

Tealsie wrote...

I think we all would like that.  The closest we can get is to buy one of the audiobook things that Gideon has voiced/narrated and play that.

I saw on Wikipedia that he'd done some audiobooks. I haven't rushed out and bought them all *yet* but I've considered it...

[Cosmochyck]

Tealsie wrote...

gingergen wrote...

And I would like to tangentially state for the record? The voice acting in this game is awesome. It's usually a sticking point for me, but I found all the primary voice actors to be really strong. Also the Fenris voice dude needs to come to my house and read me stories at bedtime, for serious.

I think we all would like that.  The closest we can get is to buy one of the audiobook things that Gideon has voiced/narrated and play that.

motomotogirl wrote...
Other than that ... perhaps one or two more?  I think the lines are the same for Fem and M!Hawke.  Aww, so you don't like her lines to him?  I think they're fine.  I mean, sometimes they're cheesy ... but ... oh, I think we can all agree that the best romance line in the game is when sarcastic Hawke rolls his/her eyes and says, "Oh, I dunno, it might be fun holding that over you." LOL ass hole!

I'm kind of partial to "Want a sandwich?" SarcastiHawke is the best mood-killer in existence.

I'm not sure about how lines may/may not be different for Lady Hawke and Merrill, but there doesn't seem to be anything different with FemHawkexIsabela. The fact that they're both women in that one is never even mentioned, so far as I've found(haven't tried ALL dialogue options yet). So it seems like it is just with the male LIs. Since Ander's dialogue is different depending on gender too.

Maybe we could all get together in a big giant sleepover and have him come read stories to us??  Then he'd only have to go to one place!  Who's in???  I'm afraid I'd be sitting there all night poking him like I do Fenris to hear him say "I am yours". 

Yes, the M!Hawke line is really lame, but I found some of the F!Hawke lines lame as well - just not usually around the romance part.  And there is no way my Hawke would have remained sitting on the bed as he walked out.  NO WAY. 
But I'm sure BW will continue to work on differing dialogue options for future games to keep everyone happy! 

[Tealsie]

Cosmochyck wrote...


Maybe we could all get together in a big giant sleepover and have him come read stories to us??  Then he'd only have to go to one place!  Who's in???  I'm afraid I'd be sitting there all night poking him like I do Fenris to hear him say "I am yours". 

I'm in!

Yes, the M!Hawke line is really lame, but I found some of the F!Hawke lines lame as well - just not usually around the romance part.  And there is no way my Hawke would have remained sitting on the bed as he walked out.  NO WAY. 
But I'm sure BW will continue to work on differing dialogue options for future games to keep everyone happy! 

Maybe Bioware could carry the renegade thing over from Mass Effect. So Hawke has the option to sit on the bed and mope, or leap onto the escaping elf and tie him down.  or slap him/throw things/yell profanities so on/so forth...

[Dutchess]

Tealsie wrote...

Cosmochyck wrote...


Maybe we could all get together in a big giant sleepover and have him come read stories to us??  Then he'd only have to go to one place!  Who's in???  I'm afraid I'd be sitting there all night poking him like I do Fenris to hear him say "I am yours". 

I'm in!

Me too!!!!

[Meeszy Alexy]

Tashash wrote...

MEEEEEEEZZZZZZZYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *tackleglomphs*

It's so good to see you here in the Fenris thread! *huggles*

I have to admit that I'm actually happy that Fenris 'hook's up' or whatever with Isabela if he isn't with Hawke. Sure, it isn't a great, heartwrenching romance - but that dosen't make it bad does it?

For all her frivolity Isabela is no stranger to hardship or pain (her own mother sold her!) and I think that she can really help Fenris with his issues, having a sort of understanding of how he feels.

I come here once every blue moon. (Sorry for the lateish reply. )

motomotogirl wrote...

aldien wrote...

Why in Thedas did they do that? That is just the weirdest piece of insecurity dialogue I have ever seen placed in a game. I've heard lots of people complain about MHawke's dialogue. In your opinion, is his dialogue not well written? I find most of FHawke's dialogue an emotionless pit. But, that's probably just me.

Well, believe it or not, there are people in other threads who think the "division" or difference between gay and straight romances isn't apparent ENOUGH, so they want MORE of this crap.  You know what I bet doesn't occur? FemHawke asking Merrill or Isabela if it's okay because they're both women.  Yeah, you can bet your ASS that line doesn't exist.

Other than that ... perhaps one or two more?  I think the lines are the same for Fem and M!Hawke.  Aww, so you don't like her lines to him?  I think they're fine.  I mean, sometimes they're cheesy ... but ... oh, I think we can all agree that the best romance line in the game is when sarcastic Hawke rolls his/her eyes and says, "Oh, I dunno, it might be fun holding that over you." LOL ass hole!

 

I actually took the whole "Is it because I'm a man" thing as Hawke assuming that Fenris had not slept with a man before. :S

And motomotogirl... um, calm down? You're a bit het up over one line of dialogue which is open to interpretation either way. 

And renjility... where did you get that hair mod! It's beautiful! <3

[AbsoluteApril]

Cosmochyck wrote...

Maybe we could all get together in a big giant sleepover and have him come read stories to us??  Then he'd only have to go to one place!  Who's in??? 

Count me in as well! I'll bring extra pillows, a plate of fresh baked cookies and some bibs for our drool as we listen to Mr Emery's sultry sexy voice whisper us to sleep



near the end of Act2 after Fenris' final romance sceen decided to go through Legacy, which is still sadly lacking Fenris romance dialogue, then on to MOtA.. I don't normally do it but decided to use the 2nd flirt option with Tallis in order to hear Fenris make his adorable jealous comment, something like 'what DID you have in mind?".. Hawke slyly glances his way thinking "ahh so you do still care my dear". heh Then of course because I flirted with her I got the added 'is there a husband?' line, that was awesome. ahh Fenris...

[kemz19691]

Night Dreams wrote...

 I think what Bioware was mainly trying to do with the whole Fenabel thing was to try and implement a romance into the companions to add to the whole 'realism' thing, which isn't really that bad, although I have to agree Fenris doesn't really suit Isabela.... but then again he wouldn't suit Merril or Anders either would he? 
Speaking of Merril though, it would be incredibly interesting to see how a romance between them would carry out, whereas I don't think it would be humanly possible for Anders and Fenris to be together 0.o

Night Dreams:

I was apalled by Anders' recommendation of suicide during party banter. Have you had this experience? 

Anders (to Fenris): "Have you considered suicide?



That's another big beef I have with Bioware!!! Because Fenris was a slave, turned into a weapon against his will and probably sexually/phyiscally abused and humilated he should just kill himself???

I think that's the worst said thing in the game.  It made me really dislike Anders' character since he's such a hypocrite - what with him walking around with Justice and then encouraging some poor runaway elf slave to kill himself? Whoever wrote that bit of banter should be spanked. 

[kemz19691]

aldien wrote...

This is what it says on the Wiki regarding Fenris being touched:

The lyrium burned into his body causes him pain, making him guarded
against physical contact; however, it is more of an aversion to them
being touched rather than physical pain.[1]

I love me some double talk!

Anywho, but, for me, that doesn't come across in the game. I'm guessing when he says: The pain...etc that he means the emotional pain caused by flashbacks not physical pain. He also states several times that he enjoyed Hawke's touch. He remembers it like yesterday or something corny like that. It isn't very clear in the game. But... *ahem* I do know one thing. If a man found being touched painful it would definitely be hard (no pun intended) for him to perform, if you get my meaning. So... I find it hard to believe it is physical pain that he experiences, but it's not very clear cut in the game.

I'll probably get beaten up for this next statement but oh well.

As far as Isabela and Fenris go, I've never let them get together in ACT III. I am *sniffles* a Fenris good time girl. There I said it. I do know what is said between them. I think they are two people who have worth and trust issues to some degree. Fenris moreso than Isabela. I do find it hard to believe that if you romance Fenris and he has all that trauma after sex that he would be willing to risk going through it again for what seems to be a casual relationship. *shrugs* It's suggested in the dialogue that Fenris and Isabela have spent more than one night together. So... he doesn't experience the pain and memories with her? It doesn't make sense.

I also think Fenris would not have waited three years to talk to Hawke about that night together. Hadrianna's death was traumatic for him and he managed to apologise for his outburst. I also think it is unrealistic to suggest Hawke waited three years for him. My personal opinion is that the game developers were a bit lazy in this respect. It was a tidy place to end the dialogue and get on with other things. Personally, I would have preferred more dialogue and less missions.

Right. If Hawke never romances Fenris, then he will hook up with Isabela but never experience the trauma and avoid physical contact for 3 years? And the Devil laughed!

Remember what Fenris tells Hawke on the anniversay of his escape?

Hawke: "So there was never anyone before or after your escape?"
Fenris: Because of the pain from the rituals that gave me these markings "I have never allowed anyone close".
and
Fenris: "I never stayed in one place too long. Who would I trust?"
and
"I never thought I wanted anyone or needed anyone...until now"
and
"You're unlike any other woman/man, Hawke. With you it could be different"
____

Consider these things:

Fenris has only 1 night of intimacy with Hawke and he ends it for 3 years. 
If this is a rivalmance, he will say: "This should never have happened".

My interpretation: You'd have to be pretty damn special to get Fenris' love.  Seriously.

And even then, you have to really want him to wait around for it. If you so much as FLIRT wtih another character, you risk not getting a romantic ending in Act 3. (This happened to me with a romanced-Fenris [still wearing red wristband] after I flirted up Sebastian - Fenris bowed to me and vowed he'd fight by my side as a friend still wearing the red wristband])

So, how could he hook up with someone like Isabela?? I say it's not in Fenris' nature or condition to engage in casual sex, not when he is re-traumatized by intimate physical .. you know what I mean.

[kemz19691]

gingergen wrote...

I tooooooooootally agree.

He says, "It was fine" and then the camera points to Hawke looking pained, and THEN he says how great it was. He's trying to spare her feelings. It might have been more constructive to be honest, but I really think he's struggling with fight or flight as it is; that he's willing to have the conversation at all is a mark of how much he cares about her.

What if we're missing something here?

If Fenris only knew violence/rape, then what he experienced with Hawke would be beyond his dreaming.  What references does he have but violence? I imagine their intimacy included caresses, kisses, holding, confessions of the heart and other spoken loveliness.  It would have been overwhelming for someone like Fenris.

Fenris was abused like an animal - like an unwanted dog, all of his known or remembered life.  Here was someone who impacted his life with all things beautiful and good.

I apolgize for stretching this discussion out - but I really enjoy this voicing my opinion on Fenris.

[kemz19691]

motomotogirl wrote...

renjility wrote...

Diplomatic female Hawke can aks him: "your markings, they hurt, don't they?"
And Fenris responds: "it's not that." He says that quite absentmindedly, dismissive, like he had almost forgotten about that part already. Pain/physical discomfort was not the main issue here. It is not the reason he pulls away. If it had really been that antagonizing for him, I think he would have broken it off sooner.

And this is what pisses me off about the M!Hawke x Fenris romance.  See, we never get that line.  We get some stupid "Is it because I'm a man?" line.  Yeah, like Fenris is going to be all, "You know, you're right Hawke.  I totally thought I was gay but it turns out I'm not.  Sorry, man!"  I mean, dumbest post-coital line in the history of post-coital lines.  Why can't diplomatic M!Hawke have the same line as diplomatic FemHawke.  Why doesn't SHE have to say, "Is it because I'm a woman?" (ROFL How hilarious would that be.  Imagnie Fenris' expression.  "Um ... no, that's not it, Hawke.")  

So FemHawke romance gets a nice little plot bumper while M!Hawke is just making sure the guy he just had awesome sex with is still gay.

I mean, WTF.

I think Fenris' sexuality is ambiguous - I mean, he hooks up with Isabela if not romanced. Someone posted on this site they believed Fenris is attracted to the person - the individual, not the gender.  That, to me, makes his love - his feelings, his emotional honesty - very real and sincere.

[aldien]

kemz19691 wrote...

Night Dreams wrote...

 I think what Bioware was mainly trying to do with the whole Fenabel thing was to try and implement a romance into the companions to add to the whole 'realism' thing, which isn't really that bad, although I have to agree Fenris doesn't really suit Isabela.... but then again he wouldn't suit Merril or Anders either would he? 
Speaking of Merril though, it would be incredibly interesting to see how a romance between them would carry out, whereas I don't think it would be humanly possible for Anders and Fenris to be together 0.o

Night Dreams:

I was apalled by Anders' recommendation of suicide during party banter. Have you had this experience? 

Anders (to Fenris): "Have you considered suicide?



That's another big beef I have with Bioware!!! Because Fenris was a slave, turned into a weapon against his will and probably sexually/phyiscally abused and humilated he should just kill himself???

I think that's the worst said thing in the game.  It made me really dislike Anders' character since he's such a hypocrite - what with him walking around with Justice and then encouraging some poor runaway elf slave to kill himself? Whoever wrote that bit of banter should be spanked. 

I read somewhere that the person who wrote Ander's rivalmance dialogue was writing about mental illness or their experience with it. It was something along those lines. If it's not true let me know.

The way depression and  paranoia was handled really didn't bode well with me. It troubled me too when Anders asked if Fenris had ever thought about killing himself. It was such a flippant remark and said so casually it made me cringe. If I had been Hawke I would have told Anders to go F himself. I found it hard to like Anders, but he is so troubled it's also hard to hate him.

[CuriousArtemis]

aldien wrote...

I do like that one. It's better than: I understand I always understood. Whaaa??? Get some self respect woman! Who understands a man that doesn't say sorry for three years? Who understands any man for that matter. I don't.

AMEN!!  I like that M!Hawke just sits there looking all dejected, like his manly loving didn't do the trick.  But FemHawke, come on, girl, get up and get yo man!!!  

Also, referring to Hawke as a silly cow = I ROFL'd outloud

kemz19691 wrote...

Someone posted on this site they believed Fenris is attracted to the person - the individual, not the gender.  That, to me, makes his love - his feelings, his emotional honesty - very real and sincere. 

Agree, well, I mean, he's bisexual. That's just how I see it.  Now, this is an RPG game, so the TRUTH is that he's PC-sexual.  The Isabela side ... sex thing (can't call it a romance) makes him at least into ladies.  

Also ... *I* get told to calm down?  Everyone else is allowed to write ten page treatise after treatise on what they love and didn't love about the game, but I'm the only one being told to calm down?  Um, WTF.

[aldien]

kemz19691 wrote...

aldien wrote...

This is what it says on the Wiki regarding Fenris being touched:

The lyrium burned into his body causes him pain, making him guarded
against physical contact; however, it is more of an aversion to them
being touched rather than physical pain.[1]

I love me some double talk!

Anywho, but, for me, that doesn't come across in the game. I'm guessing when he says: The pain...etc that he means the emotional pain caused by flashbacks not physical pain. He also states several times that he enjoyed Hawke's touch. He remembers it like yesterday or something corny like that. It isn't very clear in the game. But... *ahem* I do know one thing. If a man found being touched painful it would definitely be hard (no pun intended) for him to perform, if you get my meaning. So... I find it hard to believe it is physical pain that he experiences, but it's not very clear cut in the game.

I'll probably get beaten up for this next statement but oh well.

As far as Isabela and Fenris go, I've never let them get together in ACT III. I am *sniffles* a Fenris good time girl. There I said it. I do know what is said between them. I think they are two people who have worth and trust issues to some degree. Fenris moreso than Isabela. I do find it hard to believe that if you romance Fenris and he has all that trauma after sex that he would be willing to risk going through it again for what seems to be a casual relationship. *shrugs* It's suggested in the dialogue that Fenris and Isabela have spent more than one night together. So... he doesn't experience the pain and memories with her? It doesn't make sense.

I also think Fenris would not have waited three years to talk to Hawke about that night together. Hadrianna's death was traumatic for him and he managed to apologise for his outburst. I also think it is unrealistic to suggest Hawke waited three years for him. My personal opinion is that the game developers were a bit lazy in this respect. It was a tidy place to end the dialogue and get on with other things. Personally, I would have preferred more dialogue and less missions.

Right. If Hawke never romances Fenris, then he will hook up with Isabela but never experience the trauma and avoid physical contact for 3 years? And the Devil laughed!

Remember what Fenris tells Hawke on the anniversay of his escape?

Hawke: "So there was never anyone before or after your escape?"
Fenris: Because of the pain from the rituals that gave me these markings "I have never allowed anyone close".
and
Fenris: "I never stayed in one place too long. Who would I trust?"
and
"I never thought I wanted anyone or needed anyone...until now"
and
"You're unlike any other woman/man, Hawke. With you it could be different"
____

Consider these things:

Fenris has only 1 night of intimacy with Hawke and he ends it for 3 years. 
If this is a rivalmance, he will say: "This should never have happened".

My interpretation: You'd have to be pretty damn special to get Fenris' love.  Seriously.

And even then, you have to really want him to wait around for it. If you so much as FLIRT wtih another character, you risk not getting a romantic ending in Act 3. (This happened to me with a romanced-Fenris [still wearing red wristband] after I flirted up Sebastian - Fenris bowed to me and vowed he'd fight by my side as a friend still wearing the red wristband])

So, how could he hook up with someone like Isabela?? I say it's not in Fenris' nature or condition to engage in casual sex, not when he is re-traumatized by intimate physical .. you know what I mean.

Fenris: Because of the pain from the rituals that gave me these markings

Does he actually say that? I always interpreted his unwillingness to get close to someone as a  trust issue since he is being hunted. Well, that and the fact he was always on the run. When would he have time?

[gingergen]

kemz19691 wrote...

gingergen wrote...

I tooooooooootally agree.

He says, "It was fine" and then the camera points to Hawke looking pained, and THEN he says how great it was. He's trying to spare her feelings. It might have been more constructive to be honest, but I really think he's struggling with fight or flight as it is; that he's willing to have the conversation at all is a mark of how much he cares about her.

What if we're missing something here?

If Fenris only knew violence/rape, then what he experienced with Hawke would be beyond his dreaming.  What references does he have but violence? I imagine their intimacy included caresses, kisses, holding, confessions of the heart and other spoken loveliness.  It would have been overwhelming for someone like Fenris.

Fenris was abused like an animal - like an unwanted dog, all of his known or remembered life.  Here was someone who impacted his life with all things beautiful and good.

I apolgize for stretching this discussion out - but I really enjoy this voicing my opinion on Fenris.

Opinions are good! Even if I disagree with them.

A lot here is left up to our own personal interpretation. In your fade to black, you are imagining emotional intimacy. In my fade to black, I am imagining more wall-slamming. This... might say more about you and me than about what the writers intended to happen.   (Though IMO I think they left it ambiguous on purpose.)

The awesome thing is that what IS shown can support either theory.

[gingergen]

aldien wrote...

Fenris: Because of the pain from the rituals that gave me these markings

Does he actually say that? I always interpreted his unwillingness to get close to someone as a  trust issue since he is being hunted. Well, that and the fact he was always on the run. When would he have time?

I might have transcribed this conversation just the other day...

Fenris: I have never allowed anyone too close. When my markeings were created, the pain was... extraordinary. And the memory lingers. But you are unlike any woman I have ever met. With you, it might be different.

Again, pretty ambiguous. Does he have actual pain when touched? Or does touch remind him of the experience of being branded with the markings?

And to your other post

I read somewhere that the person who wrote Ander's rivalmance dialogue
was writing about mental illness or their experience with it. It was
something along those lines. If it's not true let me know.

I hadn't heard this, but I would believe it. I romanced him on my first playthrough, and it broke my heart that he told Hawke he loved her in act 2, and then completely and abruptly emotionally withdrew, leaving her with a live-in boyfriend who wasn't even very nice to her anymore except when her mother died. And THEN he lied to her, and did what he did. Stupid Anders.

Modifié par gingergen, 08 février 2012 - 10:02 .

[Dutchess]

Meeszy Alexy wrote...

And renjility... where did you get that hair mod! It's beautiful! <3

You mean the hair of the character in my profile pic, right? Here you go: social.bioware.com/project/7905/
That set contains a lot of beautiful hairs (originally made for the Sims 2).

And wow, this thread is extremely active suddenly! A nice chance of pace.

[aldien]

motomotogirl wrote...

aldien wrote...

I do like that one. It's better than: I understand I always understood. Whaaa??? Get some self respect woman! Who understands a man that doesn't say sorry for three years? Who understands any man for that matter. I don't.

AMEN!!  I like that M!Hawke just sits there looking all dejected, like his manly loving didn't do the trick.  But FemHawke, come on, girl, get up and get yo man!!!  

Also, referring to Hawke as a silly cow = I ROFL'd outloud

kemz19691 wrote...

Someone posted on this site they believed Fenris is attracted to the person - the individual, not the gender.  That, to me, makes his love - his feelings, his emotional honesty - very real and sincere. 

Agree, well, I mean, he's bisexual. That's just how I see it.  Now, this is an RPG game, so the TRUTH is that he's PC-sexual.  The Isabela side ... sex thing (can't call it a romance) makes him at least into ladies.  

Also ... *I* get told to calm down?  Everyone else is allowed to write ten page treatise after treatise on what they love and didn't love about the game, but I'm the only one being told to calm down?  Um, WTF.

She is a very silly cow indeed. She can beat up a terrifying guy with horns and bad skin complexion, but she can't go give her man hell? Honestly.

Hey, I haven't been told off for at least 72 hours. I'm starting to feel rejected. Are you picking up my slack?

Moto has a good point. Trust me when I say this is a very civilized and calm debate.

[kemz19691]

gingergen wrote...

kemz19691 wrote...

gingergen wrote...

I tooooooooootally agree.

He says, "It was fine" and then the camera points to Hawke looking pained, and THEN he says how great it was. He's trying to spare her feelings. It might have been more constructive to be honest, but I really think he's struggling with fight or flight as it is; that he's willing to have the conversation at all is a mark of how much he cares about her.

What if we're missing something here?

If Fenris only knew violence/rape, then what he experienced with Hawke would be beyond his dreaming.  What references does he have but violence? I imagine their intimacy included caresses, kisses, holding, confessions of the heart and other spoken loveliness.  It would have been overwhelming for someone like Fenris.

Fenris was abused like an animal - like an unwanted dog, all of his known or remembered life.  Here was someone who impacted his life with all things beautiful and good.

I apolgize for stretching this discussion out - but I really enjoy this voicing my opinion on Fenris.

Opinions are good! Even if I disagree with them.

A lot here is left up to our own personal interpretation. In your fade to black, you are imagining emotional intimacy. In my fade to black, I am imagining more wall-slamming. This... might say more about you and me than about what the writers intended to happen.   (Though IMO I think they left it ambiguous on purpose.)

The awesome thing is that what IS shown can support either theory.

LOL! Okay, explain then how after the oil lamp passes, she wakes up in bed, looks over at the empty side of the bed, finds Fenris 'dressed' with his weapon on his back (ready to bolt) only to say: "was it really that bad?"

ahahahahha -- Come on. You know why she ended up sleeping in bed.

Fenris: That night...I can still remember your touch (yeah, and what else?)