55380 réponses à ce sujet

[gingergen]

Hehehe. I'm not sayin' wall-slamming didn't turn into bed-slamming at some point... I figure that armor of his got pretty pokey eventually. Wouldn't want to shock the sensibilities of young Sandal by getting naked out in the entrance hall, now would they?

Gah, top of thread! Must post picture! I wonder if I remember how...

Modifié par gingergen, 08 février 2012 - 10:26 .

[aldien]

kemz19691 wrote...

gingergen wrote...

kemz19691 wrote...

gingergen wrote...

I tooooooooootally agree.

He says, "It was fine" and then the camera points to Hawke looking pained, and THEN he says how great it was. He's trying to spare her feelings. It might have been more constructive to be honest, but I really think he's struggling with fight or flight as it is; that he's willing to have the conversation at all is a mark of how much he cares about her.

What if we're missing something here?

If Fenris only knew violence/rape, then what he experienced with Hawke would be beyond his dreaming.  What references does he have but violence? I imagine their intimacy included caresses, kisses, holding, confessions of the heart and other spoken loveliness.  It would have been overwhelming for someone like Fenris.

Fenris was abused like an animal - like an unwanted dog, all of his known or remembered life.  Here was someone who impacted his life with all things beautiful and good.

I apolgize for stretching this discussion out - but I really enjoy this voicing my opinion on Fenris.

Opinions are good! Even if I disagree with them.

A lot here is left up to our own personal interpretation. In your fade to black, you are imagining emotional intimacy. In my fade to black, I am imagining more wall-slamming. This... might say more about you and me than about what the writers intended to happen.   (Though IMO I think they left it ambiguous on purpose.)

The awesome thing is that what IS shown can support either theory.

LOL! Okay, explain then how after the oil lamp passes, she wakes up in bed, looks over at the empty side of the bed, finds Fenris 'dressed' with his weapon on his back (ready to bolt) only to say: "was it really that bad?"

ahahahahha -- Come on. You know why she ended up sleeping in bed.

Fenris: That night...I can still remember your touch (yeah, and what else?)

Who said they only did the dirty once? In my mind it took awhile for the memories to kick in. But, my mind is a scary perverted place.

Modifié par aldien, 08 février 2012 - 10:43 .

[CuriousArtemis]

aldien wrote...
Who said they only did the dirty once? In my mind it took awhile for the memories to kick in. But, my mind is a scary perverted place.

PERVERT!   

In my sad, sad slightly pre-teen-esque mind, they made sweet sweet love, slowly and passionately, then fell asleep in one another's arms.

I know; I have issues. 

[aldien]

gingergen wrote...

aldien wrote...

Fenris: Because of the pain from the rituals that gave me these markings

Does he actually say that? I always interpreted his unwillingness to get close to someone as a  trust issue since he is being hunted. Well, that and the fact he was always on the run. When would he have time?

I might have transcribed this conversation just the other day...

Fenris: I have never allowed anyone too close. When my markeings were created, the pain was... extraordinary. And the memory lingers. But you are unlike any woman I have ever met. With you, it might be different.

Again, pretty ambiguous. Does he have actual pain when touched? Or does touch remind him of the experience of being branded with the markings?

And to your other post

I read somewhere that the person who wrote Ander's rivalmance dialogue
was writing about mental illness or their experience with it. It was
something along those lines. If it's not true let me know.

I hadn't heard this, but I would believe it. I romanced him on my first playthrough, and it broke my heart that he told Hawke he loved her in act 2, and then completely and abruptly emotionally withdrew, leaving her with a live-in boyfriend who wasn't even very nice to her anymore except when her mother died. And THEN he lied to her, and did what he did. Stupid Anders.

Fenris: I have never allowed anyone too close. When my markeings were
created, the pain was... extraordinary. And the memory lingers. But you
are unlike any woman I have ever met. With you, it might be different

I always wondered if that meant maybe someone had touched him and it was painful like Danarius and Hadrianna. But he thinks with Hawke it won't hurt??? It's kind of a convoluted statement.

[AbsoluteApril]

motomotogirl wrote...

 they made sweet sweet love, slowly and passionately, then fell asleep in one another's arms.

You're not alone, that's how I saw it in my mind as well... and I'm normally a perv

[kemz19691]

aldien wrote...

Fenris: I have never allowed anyone too close. When my markeings were
created, the pain was... extraordinary. And the memory lingers. But you
are unlike any woman I have ever met. With you, it might be different

I always wondered if that meant maybe someone had touched him and it was painful like Danarius and Hadrianna. But he thinks with Hawke it won't hurt??? It's kind of a convoluted statement.

I suspect that Hadrianna may have been deeply in love with Danarius - like hero worship.  I think she may have tormented Fenris out of jealousy perhaps? Fenris was extremely close to Danarius - bodyguard, weapon, sex sex slave, etc.  

I say this because Fenris said Hadrianna was a social climber and would sell her children if Danrius wished it.  This means she was grossly obedient - slavishly devoted to Danarius.  But Fenris was his #1 slave - a position maybe Hadrianna coveted? 

Also, if Danirus coveted Fenris as a prize, why would Hadrianna (who worshipped Danarius) abuse Fenris? It had to be out of jealousy.  Added that Danirus was PROBABLY gay (no mention of a family - wife, children, lover, etc.), meant that he didn't give Hadrianna the kind of 'time' forced upon Fenris. 

There are women who deny the sexual orientation of a man of which they're enamoured only to create hell on earth for his interest.  I'm thinking that's what happened here - Hadrianna was driven to abuse Fenris out of jealousy.

I don't think Fenris understood her motivations- only that she was a social climber. I don't think Fenris understood because he lacked the reference for it. I don't think he sought that kind of attention from his master - and that becuase he didn't seek after it, he wouldn't think anyone else would, either. 

See how complex these characters and the relationships they forge in the game are?? heheeheh

[Cosmochyck]

AbsoluteApril wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

 they made sweet sweet love, slowly and passionately, then fell asleep in one another's arms.

You're not alone, that's how I saw it in my mind as well... and I'm normally a perv

I go back and forth on it.  Part of me thinks it was sweet and lovely, and part of me thinks it was definitely more than once, with a little dirty and a lot of sexy thrown in. 

And the wall-slamming always bugged me - it was a copout to have BOTH male and female Hawke use it.  Just easier on the developers.  I don't think she would have slammed him against the wall, especially if it's when he's back in your foyer the second time with his "command to go and I shall" comment.  
I picture more the kisses, realizing Sandal, Bodahn and Maker knows who else are in the next room, and the leading him upstairs to the bedroom to continue.  And I have to say, it's a good thing she's just in "clothes" as his armor looks like it would take more than a minute to get off!

[gingergen]

AbsoluteApril wrote...

You're not alone, that's how I saw it in my mind as well... and I'm normally a perv

I am definitely feeling like a perv in this scenario...
My fiance would be so proud.

[Ghost_Nappa]

Good lord, I missed alot today...damn classes. Anyway what can I catch up on?

For those who go on about the touching and pain I go with that and see it being deeply pyschological for him to be in a relationship with anyone. (including the nay say of the Fenbella...tsk tsk poor writing.) As someone who gets insanely angry at certain tone pitches or being touched lightly I so see that as a trust built on years of knowing a person before you let em shake your hand or hug you.

As for the slumber party idea....count me out. I shant go crazy over man like that again....unless IM insanely rich and hire Mr. Emery to do it based on IM a very eccentric rich woman with a group of friends.

As for the love making scene...I plead the fifth on that subject.

As for his sexual orientation...I just same it up witht heothers based on what I heard off a podcast:"FINE EVERYONE IS BI! SCREW WHOEVER, WE CANT MAKE ANYONE HAPPY IF WE GO THE THREE WAY ROUTE" *Ahem* Please dont come at me bro for that.

As for the whole Hawke being a sad wispy soap opera queen over the woes of her man leaving her.....****slap and grab your cojones woman.

and finally the Hadrianna obessed with Danarius....well played sir.

[aldien]

kemz19691 wrote...

aldien wrote...

Fenris: I have never allowed anyone too close. When my markeings were
created, the pain was... extraordinary. And the memory lingers. But you
are unlike any woman I have ever met. With you, it might be different

I always wondered if that meant maybe someone had touched him and it was painful like Danarius and Hadrianna. But he thinks with Hawke it won't hurt??? It's kind of a convoluted statement.

I suspect that Hadrianna may have been deeply in love with Danarius - like hero worship.  I think she may have tormented Fenris out of jealousy perhaps? Fenris was extremely close to Danarius - bodyguard, weapon, sex sex slave, etc.  

I say this because Fenris said Hadrianna was a social climber and would sell her children if Danrius wished it.  This means she was grossly obedient - slavishly devoted to Danarius.  But Fenris was his #1 slave - a position maybe Hadrianna coveted? 

Also, if Danirus coveted Fenris as a prize, why would Hadrianna (who worshipped Danarius) abuse Fenris? It had to be out of jealousy.  Added that Danirus was PROBABLY gay (no mention of a family - wife, children, lover, etc.), meant that he didn't give Hadrianna the kind of 'time' forced upon Fenris. 

There are women who deny the sexual orientation of a man of which they're enamoured only to create hell on earth for his interest.  I'm thinking that's what happened here - Hadrianna was driven to abuse Fenris out of jealousy.

I don't think Fenris understood her motivations- only that she was a social climber. I don't think Fenris understood because he lacked the reference for it. I don't think he sought that kind of attention from his master - and that becuase he didn't seek after it, he wouldn't think anyone else would, either. 

See how complex these characters and the relationships they forge in the game are?? heheeheh

I really agree with this. In so many respects I have always felt Hadrianna was more of a torment than Danarius. I don't know. I go back and forth on that one. I wonder how young Fenris was when Danarius gained ownership of him? Ugggg it's so awful if you put it in realistic terms, which I try not to do.

I think she may have tormented Fenris out of jealousy perhaps? 

Oh, I really think so. Maybe she felt Danarius valued him more both as a commodity and a lover?

I say this because Fenris said Hadrianna was a social climber and would sell her children if Danrius wished it. 

That really says it all doesn't it. I think she would have slept with Danarius in a heartbeat if it meant gaining more of his favor. But what did being his "prized pupil" really mean?

Added that Danirus was PROBABLY gay (no mention of a family - wife,
children, lover, etc.), meant that he didn't give Hadrianna the kind of
'time' forced upon Fenris. 

I read a long time ago about what happens if you hand Fenris over to Danarius. Doesn't his letter say something about Fenris and him once being close or something along those lines? I've never handed Fenris over, but I admit I was curious to know what happened. It seemed to suggest their was a relationship there, though I would definitely put it down to Stockholm Syndrome. How could anyone ever have true emotional attachment when they are not free to choose anything?

See how complex these characters and the relationships they forge in the game are??

I agree, but I think at times things are too ambigious. I'm all for giving the players freedom but there are so many unanswered questions!

Wonderful insights.

[aldien]

Cosmochyck wrote...

AbsoluteApril wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

 they made sweet sweet love, slowly and passionately, then fell asleep in one another's arms.

You're not alone, that's how I saw it in my mind as well... and I'm normally a perv

I go back and forth on it.  Part of me thinks it was sweet and lovely, and part of me thinks it was definitely more than once, with a little dirty and a lot of sexy thrown in. 

And the wall-slamming always bugged me - it was a copout to have BOTH male and female Hawke use it.  Just easier on the developers.  I don't think she would have slammed him against the wall, especially if it's when he's back in your foyer the second time with his "command to go and I shall" comment.  
I picture more the kisses, realizing Sandal, Bodahn and Maker knows who else are in the next room, and the leading him upstairs to the bedroom to continue.  And I have to say, it's a good thing she's just in "clothes" as his armor looks like it would take more than a minute to get off!

I don't think she would have slammed him against the wall, especially if
it's when he's back in your foyer the second time with his "command to
go and I shall" comment.  

You know, I'm not trying to be sexist but when FHawke throws him against the wall it doesn't feel right. Now when Fenris slams her against the wall that's just damn sexy in my opinion. But, as a woman, I wouldn't have attempted to do the same to him. He seems so small, like dainty when she does that. Is that just me? Plus, I'd just be more eager to get his clothing off at that point.

[aldien]

gingergen wrote...

AbsoluteApril wrote...

You're not alone, that's how I saw it in my mind as well... and I'm normally a perv

I am definitely feeling like a perv in this scenario...
My fiance would be so proud.

Awwww you are engaged? Congrats! We are slowly corrupting you.

[gingergen]

aldien wrote...

You know, I'm not trying to be sexist but when FHawke throws him against the wall it doesn't feel right. Now when Fenris slams her against the wall that's just damn sexy in my opinion. But, as a woman, I wouldn't have attempted to do the same to him. He seems so small, like dainty when she does that. Is that just me? Plus, I'd just be more eager to get his clothing off at that point.

*cough* Personally, I find it kind of hot.  ... Don't mind me, I'll be sitting over here in the perv corner...

(And thanks for the congratulations! We got engaged at Christmas.)

[Tashash]

Woah! What the? Who gave the Fenris thread amphetamines!?

Cosmochyck wrote...

Maybe we could all get together in a big giant sleepover and have him come read stories to us??  Then he'd only have to go to one place!  Who's in???  I'm afraid I'd be sitting there all night poking him like I do Fenris to hear him say "I am yours". 

Yes, the M!Hawke line is really lame, but I found some of the F!Hawke lines lame as well - just not usually around the romance part.  And there is no way my Hawke would have remained sitting on the bed as he walked out.  NO WAY. 
But I'm sure BW will continue to work on differing dialogue options for future games to keep everyone happy! 

I'm in! Oh I am so in...Thing is we need to pick a country....

gingergen wrote...

aldien wrote...

You know, I'm not trying to be sexist but when FHawke throws him against the wall it doesn't feel right. Now when Fenris slams her against the wall that's just damn sexy in my opinion. But, as a woman, I wouldn't have attempted to do the same to him. He seems so small, like dainty when she does that. Is that just me? Plus, I'd just be more eager to get his clothing off at that point.

*cough* Personally, I find it kind of hot.  ... Don't mind me, I'll be sitting over here in the perv corner...

Pervyness was mentioned, I was summoned.

I actually kinda like the little "Mnf" noise we get from Fenris when he gets pushed against the wall....It does things to me.

Though getting his clothes off does seem the more attractive option...Why is 'Stip Fenris' NOT AN OPTION?!

Modifié par Tashash, 09 février 2012 - 01:58 .

[Tashash]

Gah! Double post.

Modifié par Tashash, 09 février 2012 - 01:57 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Cosmochyck wrote...

And the wall-slamming always bugged me - it was a copout to have BOTH male and female Hawke use it.  Just easier on the developers.  I don't think she would have slammed him against the wall, especially if it's when he's back in your foyer the second time with his "command to go and I shall" comment.  
I picture more the kisses, realizing Sandal, Bodahn and Maker knows who else are in the next room, and the leading him upstairs to the bedroom to continue.  And I have to say, it's a good thing she's just in "clothes" as his armor looks like it would take more than a minute to get off!

I know what you mean.  Personally, I don't like it for either male or female Hawke.  That's just not how I play Hawke.  He WOULDN'T grab Fenris so violently like that.  I like Fenris initially slamming M!Hawke against the wall.  Rawrrr, he's just that kind of guy.  I DON'T like him slamming F!Hawke against the wall.  Have some respect, fella!

It also seems odd when FemHawke retaliates and slams Fenris against the wall.  It just looks weird.  But for some reason, not as bad as M!Hawke when he does the slamming, b/c Fen is so much smalle rthan he is, so it looks ... wrong.  

[Thiefy]

i just stopped lurking to say....I love that top picture.

[dangereusegirl]

aldien wrote...

I read a long time ago about what happens if you hand Fenris over to Danarius. Doesn't his letter say something about Fenris and him once being close or something along those lines? I've never handed Fenris over, but I admit I was curious to know what happened. It seemed to suggest their was a relationship there, though I would definitely put it down to Stockholm Syndrome. How could anyone ever have true emotional attachment when they are not free to choose anything?

I don't know that it'd be really classified as Stockholm Syndrome. If you hand Fenris over to his former master, then he has his memories wiped for a second time. Fenris would probably be told his duties, whatever they may be, and not question it. That doesn't really go with SS, to my understanding.

And while the slamming against the wall has never bothered me, I can see how a lot of people wouldn't agree with it. My only problem with the Fen romance scene is that we don't get to see them going to the bed, unlike the other romances. 

Though my mind occasionally wanders and thinks that they went to any availible surface, eventually making it to the bed. Bodahn and the rest of the household would be convinietly absent of course 

[UrsulaCousland]

motomotogirl wrote...

aldien wrote...
Who said they only did the dirty once? In my mind it took awhile for the memories to kick in. But, my mind is a scary perverted place.

PERVERT!   

In my sad, sad slightly pre-teen-esque mind, they made sweet sweet love, slowly and passionately, then fell asleep in one another's arms.

I know; I have issues. 

Um, if you have issues, several of us do too...that's how I see it as well. 

(that's why it says "Certifiable" fengirl in my sig. )

[LyallxFidelis]

This is random and I'm actually new here... in this place, generally speaking.
But I was scoping through the posts and I was reading some things that made me start talking to myself, so here I go.
Hasn't David Gaider himself said that Fenris' markings don't hurt? It's more of an aversion to being touched than anything. He's like a wounded puppy, very vicious when you try to touch him at first, but slowly he begins to warm up to you, and eventually you can pet him whenever you want!
Wait... That didn't come out the way I wanted.
He also stated that yes, there were some "things" going on between Danarius and Fenris in the past. Didn't say directly what it was, but by reading these posts I believe we all have enough of an imagination to know what it was.

My opinion of the romance scene? In my opinion, it was both soft and rough. But I always imagined my Hawke being impatient and eventually "taking over" in the bed department to show him how it was done. I also imagine that if Fenris didn't leave like he did, Bodahn would have been going around the house picking up bits of armor and telling Sandal to get the pot ready for boiling.

[Night Dreams]

aldien wrote...

As far as Isabela and Fenris go, I've never let them get together in ACT III. I am *sniffles* a Fenris good time girl. There I said it. I do know what is said between them. I think they are two people who have worth and trust issues to some degree. Fenris moreso than Isabela. I do find it hard to believe that if you romance Fenris and he has all that trauma after sex that he would be willing to risk going through it again for what seems to be a casual relationship. *shrugs* It's suggested in the dialogue that Fenris and Isabela have spent more than one night together. So... he doesn't experience the pain and memories with her? It doesn't make sense.

I actually thought that was quite a nice thing about it. I think he probably still felt pain with her, but what he has with Isabella is definitely not the same as he has with Hawke. With Isabella its just pleasure, I way to I think rid himself of all the pain (emotional not physical) but with Hawke, its more than that, its love. I think that because it is love, that is the reason some of his memories only come back with him/her. So it made Hawke feel extra special in a way, like it was proving that what he felt for her/him was more than what he felt for Isabella (which we can all kind of tell, wasn't much).

Modifié par Night Dreams, 09 février 2012 - 08:58 .

[Night Dreams]

Sorry, double post, but I actually have to admit I kind of liked the whole slamming into walls thing. I think it suited Hawke to do it in the rivalmance, and I think Hawke is just showing Fenris its okay to get aggressive with her in a friendship romance, as if trying to point out to him she isn't the fragile little butterfly he may be treating her as. Hawke is ultimately a strong character, having gone through a blight, death and so much responsibility being loaded onto.

And in terms of Fenris back slamming Hawke in the friendship romance OMG I LOVE that moment. Its like all of a sudden he loses control, that rage-filled side of him suddenly slipping in all this confusion, and when he realises what he has done, with his lyrium tattoos alight and glowing, he had that sudden look of shock and apology, which is sooo gorgeous. I think Hawke's way of doing the same thing back was just her/his way of telling him its okay.

[Night Dreams]

*Edit, it posted my above twice <_< sorry!

Modifié par Night Dreams, 09 février 2012 - 09:08 .

[kemz19691]

aldien wrote...

I really agree with this. In so many respects I have always felt Hadrianna was more of a torment than Danarius. I don't know. I go back and forth on that one. I wonder how young Fenris was when Danarius gained ownership of him? Ugggg it's so awful if you put it in realistic terms, which I try not to do.

I think she may have tormented Fenris out of jealousy perhaps? 

Oh, I really think so. Maybe she felt Danarius valued him more both as a commodity and a lover?

I say this because Fenris said Hadrianna was a social climber and would sell her children if Danrius wished it. 

That really says it all doesn't it. I think she would have slept with Danarius in a heartbeat if it meant gaining more of his favor. But what did being his "prized pupil" really mean?

Added that Danirus was PROBABLY gay (no mention of a family - wife,
children, lover, etc.), meant that he didn't give Hadrianna the kind of
'time' forced upon Fenris. 

I read a long time ago about what happens if you hand Fenris over to Danarius. Doesn't his letter say something about Fenris and him once being close or something along those lines? I've never handed Fenris over, but I admit I was curious to know what happened. It seemed to suggest their was a relationship there, though I would definitely put it down to Stockholm Syndrome. How could anyone ever have true emotional attachment when they are not free to choose anything?

See how complex these characters and the relationships they forge in the game are??

I agree, but I think at times things are too ambigious. I'm all for giving the players freedom but there are so many unanswered questions!

Wonderful insights.

Thanks!

Question 1: How old do you think Fenris was when Danarius acquired his family?

IMO: I think Fenris may have been born free but may have been a slave by the time he was 3.  

Fenris says his familiy may be from Seheron.  Seheron is largely controlled by the Qunari with a protracted "retaking" by Tevinter Imperium.  We never learn how Fenris' family was captured and shipped across to TI. I assume Fenris was born before his parents ended up in TI as slaves and that they were free elves in Seheron. We never know if he has a father - we could assume his father was killed in Seheron. 

I say the remainder because our earliest memories are about age 2 or 3. The fact that he remembers playing in Danarius' courtyard with his sister but cannot remember a life before that suggests that he was a baby when his family was captured.  He has no recollection of a father, so either his mom was impregnated by some elf while a slave or Fenris' father was killed in Seheron when he was a baby or infant. 

Also, slaves are worked from very early ages.  They aren't usually given serious responsibilties but are given light  duties. The fact that he remembers playing in his master's courtyard with his sister implies they were too young to do any real work for much of the day.  They couldn't even help their mom with her duties, so they had to be toddlers (+3<5). 

Question 2: What does "prized pupil" mean? 

IMO:  Hadrianna was a devotee and very successful as an apprentice.  She was "prized" because she was successful and remained obedient/loyal to Danarius.  I have read a LOT of stuff about Tevinter Imperium (codices, writings by D.G., etc.) and it's a mage-eat-mage nation. 

Hadrianna apparently never used her powers to try and overthrow Danarius - something that's probably very common there.  Although she may have been a social climber, she remained loyal to her mentor.  Danarius never felt threatened by Hadrianna and could ask her to perform great fetes that caused her fear and trepidation  (remember what her slave told them - that Hadrianna feared someone was coming to kill her?).  Slavish devotion, that's what I characterize her sentiments for Danarius.

Question 3: Is/was Danarius a pederast?

IMO: Yes (without question). 

Look.  Dinarius had absolute power over the lives of his property.  Absolute. And we know what absolute power does? It corrupts absolutely.  Fenris said he saw Danarius kill a young boy to entertain his friends.  This is ONE sick, sick, sick person.  Fenris also tells Sebastian (when he asked him if he was an Andrastian) that Danarius didn't teach his slaves or allow teachings that made them feel worthy or valuable (like a person).  

Danirius refers to Fenris like a child: my pet", "little Fenris", etc. - never like a man.  He also claims that Fenris "once had great affection for me. I remember it fondly".  Fenris had affection for a man that never showed him any.  Similar to that little elf girl freed from that serial elf-child abuser/son of the Magistrate.  Affections for someone so cruel to them. 

This, to me, implies that Fenris was very young when Danarius focused on him. Not an older teen/young man who fell in love with his mentor - but someone whose affect was conditioned from a young (and impressionable) age.

I believe Fenris competed for that boon in his mid-teens and probably had experiences with Danarius before that.  I think Danarius regarded Fenris like Varric regards Bianca.  A special weapon no one could have but everyone coveted - something he liked to show off - his "trophy". 

___

It's not difficult o understand how bad slavery might have been for Fenris - but again, he normalized it.  That is the way it is in TI.  I think the challenge for Fenris - memory loss, which created more confusion than he could handle and trying to assimilate into a society that prohibited slavery with people who had no reference for it.

Another IMO:  I think Fenris may have had a twin brother.  Someone like Danarius experimenting on living people - would be attracted to a 'twin set', like that **** doctor.  I imagined the competition for the 'boon' was a challenged offered to him and his twin - with death for the loser.  Varania never said anything, but then - the brother was dead so why bring it up? She didn't bring up their father either. 

Yes - I said it!  Fenris had a twin brother whom he killed for the prize.    You didn't think all that evil and hell would generate kindness, benevolence and love?? This is Tevinter Imperium!  

I hope you decide to read my fanfiction some day. My stuff doesn't read like a fairy tale.

[Dutchess]

No doubt Danarius has used other subjects to experiment on before he performed the ritual on Fenris, but that Fenris had a twin brother in the competition is a bit of a stretch.... Then again, a lot of Fenris' life prior to the ritual is unknown (and a lot after it as well), so everything your mind comes up with could be possible.