kemz19691 wrote...
aldien wrote...
I really agree with this. In so many respects I have always felt Hadrianna was more of a torment than Danarius. I don't know. I go back and forth on that one. I wonder how young Fenris was when Danarius gained ownership of him? Ugggg it's so awful if you put it in realistic terms, which I try not to do.
I think she may have tormented Fenris out of jealousy perhaps?
Oh, I really think so. Maybe she felt Danarius valued him more both as a commodity and a lover?
I say this because Fenris said Hadrianna was a social climber and would sell her children if Danrius wished it.
That really says it all doesn't it. I think she would have slept with Danarius in a heartbeat if it meant gaining more of his favor. But what did being his "prized pupil" really mean?
Added that Danirus was PROBABLY gay (no mention of a family - wife,
children, lover, etc.), meant that he didn't give Hadrianna the kind of
'time' forced upon Fenris.
I read a long time ago about what happens if you hand Fenris over to Danarius. Doesn't his letter say something about Fenris and him once being close or something along those lines? I've never handed Fenris over, but I admit I was curious to know what happened. It seemed to suggest their was a relationship there, though I would definitely put it down to Stockholm Syndrome. How could anyone ever have true emotional attachment when they are not free to choose anything?
See how complex these characters and the relationships they forge in the game are??
I agree, but I think at times things are too ambigious. I'm all for giving the players freedom but there are so many unanswered questions!
Wonderful insights.
Thanks! 
Question 1: How old do you think Fenris was when Danarius acquired his family?
IMO: I think Fenris may have been born free but may have been a slave by the time he was 3.
Fenris says his familiy may be from Seheron. Seheron is largely controlled by the Qunari with a protracted "retaking" by Tevinter Imperium. We never learn how Fenris' family was captured and shipped across to TI. I assume Fenris was born before his parents ended up in TI as slaves and that they were free elves in Seheron. We never know if he has a father - we could assume his father was killed in Seheron.
I say the remainder because our earliest memories are about age 2 or 3. The fact that he remembers playing in Danarius' courtyard with his sister but cannot remember a life before that suggests that he was a baby when his family was captured. He has no recollection of a father, so either his mom was impregnated by some elf while a slave or Fenris' father was killed in Seheron when he was a baby or infant.
Also, slaves are worked from very early ages. They aren't usually given serious responsibilties but are given light duties. The fact that he remembers playing in his master's courtyard with his sister implies they were too young to do any real work for much of the day. They couldn't even help their mom with her duties, so they had to be toddlers (+3<5).
Question 2: What does "prized pupil" mean?
IMO: Hadrianna was a devotee and very successful as an apprentice. She was "prized" because she was successful and remained obedient/loyal to Danarius. I have read a LOT of stuff about Tevinter Imperium (codices, writings by D.G., etc.) and it's a mage-eat-mage nation.
Hadrianna apparently never used her powers to try and overthrow Danarius - something that's probably very common there. Although she may have been a social climber, she remained loyal to her mentor. Danarius never felt threatened by Hadrianna and could ask her to perform great fetes that caused her fear and trepidation (remember what her slave told them - that Hadrianna feared someone was coming to kill her?). Slavish devotion, that's what I characterize her sentiments for Danarius.
Question 3: Is/was Danarius a pederast?
IMO: Yes (without question).
Look. Dinarius had absolute power over the lives of his property. Absolute. And we know what absolute power does? It corrupts absolutely. Fenris said he saw Danarius kill a young boy to entertain his friends. This is ONE sick, sick, sick person. Fenris also tells Sebastian (when he asked him if he was an Andrastian) that Danarius didn't teach his slaves or allow teachings that made them feel worthy or valuable (like a person).
Danirius refers to Fenris like a child: my pet", "little Fenris", etc. - never like a man. He also claims that Fenris "once had great affection for me. I remember it fondly". Fenris had affection for a man that never showed him any. Similar to that little elf girl freed from that serial elf-child abuser/son of the Magistrate. Affections for someone so cruel to them.
This, to me, implies that Fenris was very young when Danarius focused on him. Not an older teen/young man who fell in love with his mentor - but someone whose affect was conditioned from a young (and impressionable) age.
I believe Fenris competed for that boon in his mid-teens and probably had experiences with Danarius before that. I think Danarius regarded Fenris like Varric regards Bianca. A special weapon no one could have but everyone coveted - something he liked to show off - his "trophy".
___
It's not difficult o understand how bad slavery might have been for Fenris - but again, he normalized it. That is the way it is in TI. I think the challenge for Fenris - memory loss, which created more confusion than he could handle and trying to assimilate into a society that prohibited slavery with people who had no reference for it.
Another IMO: I think Fenris may have had a twin brother. Someone like Danarius experimenting on living people - would be attracted to a 'twin set', like that **** doctor. I imagined the competition for the 'boon' was a challenged offered to him and his twin - with death for the loser. Varania never said anything, but then - the brother was dead so why bring it up? She didn't bring up their father either.
Yes - I said it! Fenris had a twin brother whom he killed for the prize. 
You didn't think all that evil and hell would generate kindness, benevolence and love?? This is Tevinter Imperium!
I hope you decide to read my fanfiction some day. 
My stuff doesn't read like a fairy tale.
We never know if he has a father - we could assume his father was killed in Seheron. No one ever mentions dear old dad. It always made me wonder if there was a selective breeding program going on in TI.
He has no recollection of a father, so either his mom was impregnated by
some elf while a slave or Fenris' father was killed in Seheron when he
was a baby or infant. I always liked (okay the word like probably isn't right) the idea that Fenris's father died trying to save his family from slavery. Too romantic? Gah, okay then, they did something horrible to his mother and she ended up with children she never wanted.
it's a mage-eat-mage nation. Do you get fries with that? Sorry, ignore me. I couldn't help it.
Hadrianna apparently never used her powers to try and overthrow Danarius
- something that's probably very common there. Although she may have
been a social climber, she remained loyal to her mentor. Danarius never
felt threatened by Hadrianna and could ask her to perform great fetes
that caused her fear and trepidation (remember what her slave told them
- that Hadrianna feared someone was coming to kill her?). Slavish It brings home how powerful Danarius must have been if he had people like Hadrianna who weren't willing to try and overthrow him. Wonder if she would have inherited his estate? Maybe that would make her extremely loyal? Ick, Fenris would have been her property. OKay, that's just too depressing.
Danirius refers to Fenris like a child: my pet", "little Fenris", etc. -
never like a man. He also claims that Fenris "once had great affection
for me. I remember it fondly". Fenris had affection for a man that
never showed him any. Similar to that little elf girl freed from that
serial elf-child abuser/son of the Magistrate. Affections for someone
so cruel to them. I also remember Sebastian offering to hear Fenris's confessions concerning Danarius. Then Fenris says something about why does everyone want hear every sordid detail. For me, that defined what kind of relationship he had with Danarius. I'm sure Danarius showed him affection just not appropriate affection. Uggg the mind games that must have gone on. Poor Fenris.
I believe Fenris competed for that boon in his mid-teens and probably
had experiences with Danarius before that. I think Danarius regarded
Fenris like Varric regards Bianca. A special weapon no one could have
but everyone coveted - something he liked to show off - his "trophy". I agree. I think Fenris was a status symbol and a display of Danarius's power. Could you imagine going to your friend's house and showing them Fenris. Look, I branded someone today. It scares me what goes on in David Gaider's mind.
Another IMO: I think Fenris may have had a twin brother. Someone like
Danarius experimenting on living people - would be attracted to a 'twin
set', like that **** doctor. I imagined the competition for the 'boon'
was a challenged offered to him and his twin - with death for the
loser. Varania never said anything, but then - the brother was dead so
why bring it up? She didn't bring up their father either. Interesting. This is the first time I have seen this suggested. Brings up memories of things that happened in WWII. But would Fenris really compete against his brother? It sounded like it was an optional thing, that Fenris chose to do it. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if he was forced.
Yes - I said it! Fenris had a twin brother whom he killed for the prize. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie] You didn't think all that evil and hell would generate kindness, benevolence and love?? This is Tevinter Imperium! Not a great holiday destination then? I have to admit that I do not get the warm and fuzzies when I think about Tevinter. Danarius is always the first thing that springs to mind, and then the thought of his dead body at the Hanged Man swiftly follows.
I hope you decide to read my fanfiction some day. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/blushing.png[/smilie] My stuff doesn't read like a fairy tale. Where is the link?
I've read my fair share of both types. I read a fanfic the other day where Fenris starts suffering from lyrium poisoning and slowly dies. It was... not pleasant, but it did give me my daily dose of emotional trauma.
Did someone on here write that? Made me cry damn it!
I write... hmmm how would you describe it ghost_nappa? Porn? Grade A smut? Maybe I am giving myself too much credit. Could be Grade B.
Every one needs some good
pron now and again. And don't the lot of you come in here and deny ever reading some good Fenris/ Hawke smut.
Modifié par aldien, 09 février 2012 - 04:36 .
I'm afraid I'd be sitting there all night poking him like I do Fenris to hear him say "I am yours".
I was sipping my drink when I read that. Had a coughing fit afterwards.
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