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[kemz19691]

renjility wrote...

Lol, yeah, poor Aveline looks more than a little deformed. xD

But I don't think it's true the betrayal in the Fade is relationship dependent? Even if you're romancing Fenris, he betrays you. Isabela will also definitely betray you, no matter how high your friendship with her is.

The only way to have Fenris not betray you is take Merrill with you, because the demon will turn to her then instead of Fenris.

On two playthroughs with high friendship, Fenris is not offered opportunity to betray by Demon.

[Dutchess]

The wiki says:

The party members listed above will always betray Hawke, regardless of friendship/rivalry points or the resolution of issues related to their temptation.

Did the pride demon tempt someone else on those playthroughs?


And because of TOP:


by 
SmaiLika07 

Modifié par renjility, 20 février 2012 - 12:18 .

[kemz19691]

renjility wrote...

The wiki says:

The party members listed above will always betray Hawke, regardless of friendship/rivalry points or the resolution of issues related to their temptation.

Did the pride demon tempt someone else on those playthroughs?

Yes. I had Fenris, Isabela, and Varric in my party - only Isabela was tempted. I've had Fenris + Merrill + Varric - only Merrill is tempted.

I don't find that all party members are tempted. Fenris and Varric usually have strong friendships with Hawke. I'm always playing f!Hawke. Fenris with strong friendship is never tempted by Demon.

[Reinara]

Actually, I'm sure it's not because of the relationship status but because in order of priority Merrill > Varric > Fenris in the flag trigger for the pride demon in the fade quest, so if you have either of those two, Fenris wouldn't be tempted. At least, that's how it goes for me when I do that quest and I play both f!Hawkes and m!Hawkes.

[Dutchess]

^Yeah, same for me. No matter what your relationship is with any of the companions, when they are tempted, they will turn on you.

[kemz19691]

Reinara wrote...

Actually, I'm sure it's not because of the relationship status but because in order of priority Merrill > Varric > Fenris in the flag trigger for the pride demon in the fade quest, so if you have either of those two, Fenris wouldn't be tempted. At least, that's how it goes for me when I do that quest and I play both f!Hawkes and m!Hawkes.

All I can tell you is - if my Fenris relationship is highly positive, he won't be tempted. Neither will Varric. Those are the only 2.

[CuriousArtemis]

It has NOTHING to do with friendship and whether or not Hawke is male or female, mage or non-mage. It has to do with who is in your party.

For the desire demon: Isabela and Aveline will be tempted. Isabela will be tempted first. If you don't bring Isabela but do bring Aveline, then Aveline will be tempted. If you bring neither, then no one will be tempted here.

For the pride demon, Merrill, Fenris, and Varric will be tempted. Merrill will be tempted first. If you don't bring Merrill, then Fenris will be tempted. If you bring neither, then Varric will be tempted. If you don't bring Merrill, Fenris, or Varric, then no one will be tempted by the pride demon.

If your game breaks the above rules it's just bugged.

Also, I think if Hawke is in a friendship or friendship romance with Fenris then Fenris doesn't blame him. I say this because I've only friendship romanced him and he's NEVER blamed Hawke for what happened in the fade. So it must be a rivalry thing.

One of many reasons I dislike the rivalry

[aldien]

kemz19691 wrote...

Reinara wrote...

Actually, I'm sure it's not because of the relationship status but because in order of priority Merrill > Varric > Fenris in the flag trigger for the pride demon in the fade quest, so if you have either of those two, Fenris wouldn't be tempted. At least, that's how it goes for me when I do that quest and I play both f!Hawkes and m!Hawkes.

All I can tell you is - if my Fenris relationship is highly positive, he won't be tempted. Neither will Varric. Those are the only 2.

Only take Fenris with you into the Fade and see what happens.

[aldien]

kemz19691 wrote...

Reinara wrote...

Actually, I'm sure it's not because of the relationship status but because in order of priority Merrill > Varric > Fenris in the flag trigger for the pride demon in the fade quest, so if you have either of those two, Fenris wouldn't be tempted. At least, that's how it goes for me when I do that quest and I play both f!Hawkes and m!Hawkes.

All I can tell you is - if my Fenris relationship is highly positive, he won't be tempted. Neither will Varric. Those are the only 2.

Only take Fenris with you into the Fade and see what happens.

[Meeszy Alexy]

Reinara wrote...

Actually, I'm sure it's not because of the relationship status but because in order of priority Merrill > Varric > Fenris in the flag trigger for the pride demon in the fade quest, so if you have either of those two, Fenris wouldn't be tempted. At least, that's how it goes for me when I do that quest and I play both f!Hawkes and m!Hawkes.

Actually, it's Merrill > Fenris > Varric. Regardless of relationship values, as it's not only the fade, it's the fade of a kid that has magical dream powers.

[CuriousArtemis]

Gah read my post peeps, I explained everything fully there.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 20 février 2012 - 08:21 .

[gingergen]

motomotogirl wrote...

It has NOTHING to do with friendship and whether or not Hawke is male or female, mage or non-mage. It has to do with who is in your party.

For the desire demon: Isabela and Aveline will be tempted. Isabela will be tempted first. If you don't bring Isabela but do bring Aveline, then Aveline will be tempted. If you bring neither, then no one will be tempted here.

For the pride demon, Merrill, Fenris, and Varric will be tempted. Merrill will be tempted first. If you don't bring Merrill, then Fenris will be tempted. If you bring neither, then Varric will be tempted. If you don't bring Merrill, Fenris, or Varric, then no one will be tempted by the pride demon.

If your game breaks the above rules it's just bugged.

Also, I think if Hawke is in a friendship or friendship romance with Fenris then Fenris doesn't blame him. I say this because I've only friendship romanced him and he's NEVER blamed Hawke for what happened in the fade. So it must be a rivalry thing.

This is consistent with what it says on the wiki for the Night Terrors quest (and also with my personal playthrough experience). (The last time I played this, Fenris killed my entire party dead and I had to reload. Ungrateful bastard!) (Kidding, Fenris, love you!)

Also agreed re: rivalry -- a rival Fenris will blame you for having brought him to the Fade in the first place. A friend Fenris will feel bad about the betrayal and apologize. (I've played it both ways, the conversations are definitely different).

Modifié par gingergen, 20 février 2012 - 09:43 .

[Dutchess]

Ah, I didn't know there was a difference between his friend and rival reaction. I'm not sure I had him betray me on my friend romance in the Fade or that I had Merrill with me as well.
Well, it makes sense that he tries to blame a rivaled Hawke a bit for what happened. In the rival relationship, his respect for Hawke becomes crucial. And when Fenris himself shows he is actually not worthy of respect and trust by turning on Hawke like that... (I think this is what Fenris thinks, not my opinion on Fenris not being worthy of respect) he finds it hard to cope with that, so he tries to lose a bit of the responsibility.

[Dutchess]

Another double post.

[AbsoluteApril]

I was also quite surprised when Fenris betrayed Hawke in the fade, I figured he would be one of the few that could not be tempted by anything the demons had to offer.

*loving all the new fenart posted, bunch I hadn't seen before!*

kemz19691 wrote...
I assume from some of the other houses that Kirkwall Hightown doesn't offer indoor plumbing. How does Fenris 'clean' himself?

Hawke scrubs his tootsies with soap and love after every battle

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I like to imagine that Fenris regularly disposes of the old corpses and brings in fresh ones (it's not like there's any shortage of them available to him, after all!) whenever they start to get too pungent. Because he leaves them there to scare off possible intruders, and fresh corpses are way scarier than old corpses. If they're fresh, then whatever killed them could still be there . . .   

interesting theory! I like that! 
I kinda figured Fenris would come home from battle, clean himself up, polish/sharpen his blade and start drinking the wine, then being too tired/drunk to be bothered with the corpses.

aldien wrote...
 Personal opinion, I don't like how they switch the main protagonist with every sequel.

agreed. I really wish I could have continued my Wardens' stories... and now having gotten into DA2, I'd like to keep Hawkes going as well.
Alas it is not to be, we'll just have to hope for more DLC.

How does Fenris smell huh? Interesting. I kind of imagined it being like a wet acrid smell, almost like metal and must. Not a bad smell since it's not overpowering.

And just for the heck of it, deviantArt had a meetup in S.F. this weekend, it was fun and of course, I had to do a quick sketch of my (our) favorite elf. 
After the final battle and the crew has made it a safe distance away from Kirkwall, mage Hawke embraces her love to thank him for staying by her side.

silly sketch is silly (hope it's not too faint to show up here)

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 20 février 2012 - 10:06 .

[Dutchess]

Aw, no, I think it's cute.

[Ghost_Nappa]

Aye it be cute and nice for a quick sketch from one artist to another...but I be rethinking about callin meself an artist since IM deviating from painting. *curls up into a ball* 

WARNING NSFW


Bah in more Fenris pics, Thank you MEG

[CuriousArtemis]

Cute pic, April!!!

[gingergen]

renjility wrote...

Well, it makes sense that he tries to blame a rivaled Hawke a bit for what happened. In the rival relationship, his respect for Hawke becomes crucial. And when Fenris himself shows he is actually not worthy of respect and trust by turning on Hawke like that... (I think this is what Fenris thinks, not my opinion on Fenris not being worthy of respect) he finds it hard to cope with that, so he tries to lose a bit of the responsibility.

I would agree with that characterization, actually. 

AbsoluteApril - love your sketch! Very sweet
.
And thanks for the one you posted too, Ghost_Nappa. Mmm, surly naked Fenris.

[aldien]

Uggg trying to stay focused on writing. Ghost Nappa putting up mostly naked picture of Fenris not helping. Actually... hmmm it might help the next chapter. Hate fanfiction. Why did I ever start writing it?

My post is Fenris related. I write about him, therefore Fenris related. Hell, I don't care. Close enough. Five glasses of wine later... and mostly awake

Modifié par aldien, 21 février 2012 - 02:04 .

[gingergen]

aldien wrote...

Uggg trying to stay focused on writing. Ghost Nappa putting up mostly naked picture of Fenris not helping. Actually... hmmm it might help the next chapter. Hate fanfiction. Why did I ever start writing it?

My post is Fenris related. I write about him, therefore Fenris related. Hell, I don't care. Close enough. Five glasses of wine later... and mostly awake

I am in the same boat tonight, though I think mostly naked pictures might help? Perhaps we just need more of them.

I am jealous of your wine though... hmm, maybe *that's* why drunk Fenris is giving me fits this evening. I need to be drunk *myself* to get him to talk right! (I'm having voice problems. Every once in a while, Fenris starts talking like Zevran in my head, and that is just NOT right at all. Not even when he's been drinking should he sound like Zev.)

[Arquen]

Addressing a few of these since you mentioned me by name, Kemz, LOL. Of course it turned into another Arquen wall-o-text. Apology in advance. I've been gone for a few days so I'll get to other stuff laters, LOL. The whole Fenris betrayal in the fade. Hmm... I could write pages on that as well, but I think it's a rather understandable choice when you think about it. I was disappointed slightly, but not terribly surprised. 

1. If lyrium is under his skin and he sweats, would it be 'lyrium-laced sweat'? And if so, would his lyrium-sweat have any psychotropic or stimulating affect/effects? We know lyrium is heavily used by Templars to enter the Fade and boost abilities, but if it ends up in Hawke's mouth (e.g., kisses, licking), what effect would it have on her/him?

The thing about the Lyrium being under his skin I’ll address first. The way I see it is that the Lyrium is burned into him. Not necessarily tattooed onto his skin, but literally engrained into his nervous/circulatory system. Sweat is a byproduct of the body and epidermis; it is the body’s natural cooling system and is taken from the water within a person’s body. It really isn’t taken from the blood or circulatory system, and while I think the Lyrium was burned into the
circulatory system I also don’t see it as floating around in his actual bloodstream. More like scarring to his actual arterial and vein walls. The lyrium markings are a result of that scarring, and show through his skin.  Consider someone struck by lightning, someone with scarred arteries/veins from something infiltrating or damaging them, it
creates permanent scars.

Due to this I don’t believe his sweat would have any lyrium distillation in it. The Lyrium does not exist on his skin, but is a permanent part of his physiology. Likewise if he were to sweat and “lose” lyrium that way it would make him #1 – some kind of mana battery that can be used as a source of lyrium potions, and #2 – eventually he would lose his
abilities or reach the limitation of lyrium he could “expel,” causing him to become unstable or just plain powerless. Neither possibility really seems within the scope of the experiment Danarius wanted to create. He wanted a powerful bodyguard, a warrior unlike any other to be his personal pet/tool/under his control to prove to the other Magisters he was the most powerful. So no, I don’t think the sweat would have anything to do with it. It is just as normal as sweat from anyone else, because it doesn’t directly interact with the lyrium catalyst within his nervous/bloodstream. Also, his
abilities must be “activated,” and so I don’t think passively he would just be oozing lyrium.

3. We learn from the game that lyrium is highly addictive - so, could Hawke become indirectly addicted to Fenris? If so, would she/he know that and could she/he distinguish the addiction from real feelings?

In a way this is plausible, but not likely since the lyrium doesn’t seem to have any psychotropic effects on Fenris himself. If anything when he “activates” his ability a mage may sense #1 – a shift in the fade, and #2 – a sense of lyrium in the air, its smell, or its presence. I highly doubt that a mage would be addicted to Fenris’s lyrium because as I said it isn’t something that is passively oozing out of him. It is a permanent part of him, burned into him that he has to “activate” to work. It isn’t like a potion or even as strong as the raw lyrium that was used to create them. It is something that is literally a part of Fenris, and physiologically bound to him, not something that he can just expose people to willingly or not.

Raw lyrium is deadly to mages even in small quantities, lyrium potions are distilled lyrium and addicting with all the psychotropic effects. Fenris neither gives off any distilled byproduct nor does he exist as raw lyrium. It’s a careful ritual.. Danarius would make sure that Fenris, once created, would not be a danger to him. Fenris could not be poisonous or hazardous to Danarius himself, and so I conclude that when the ritual was conducted Danarius planned for this possibility and that is where the “activation” factor comes in, and the lyrium as a simple catalyst to the
fade. It’s not so much using lyrium itself as it is activating lyrium as a bridge between the fade and the real world. Again, most of this is in my essay.

Throughout Act 2, Fenris mentions Donnic and others drop by for games of diamondback or whatever, so we know he receives company. You would think that he would clean the place up! I thought Fenris would only visit the Hanged Man for games, but turns out he hosts them in his mansion as well. It's hard to imagine Donnic and others regularly visting a mansion riddled with rotting corpses and fitlh.

I don’t think it is so hard to imagine. As I’ve said before Fenris really doesn’t use the other rooms in the house. What is to prevent them from passing the front foyer all together and meeting him back in his quarters? A small table set up, some drinks and cups strewn about. It suggests a fine enough place to host a small gathering. He only ever mentions Donnic, however.

I don’t know if all the other companions come over for cards. I have a feeling he simply plays with a small group of 2 –
3 people. Perhaps Donnic and Varric. Aveline obviously does not play, and she calls it their “man time,” which suggests it is just the two of them.. or a very small company. I’m sure he uses Donnic to have a fair game in a relaxed
setting, and hone his skills so when he does play at the Hanged Man he can bring something to the table. I mean “DO YOU THINK THEY TEACH SLAVES HOW TO CARDS?” He would have to practice some way, and what better way than with an acquaintance/ friend who you KNOW isn’t going to pull cards out of their sleeves and cheat and isn’t a pro swindler or buffer? It’s logical when you think about it, and anyone would understand that they aren’t exactly playing with the corpses right next to them, but in an area rather far removed from them.

  

Modifié par Arquen, 21 février 2012 - 07:34 .

[Tashash]

@April - D'Awwww - That pic is so cute! Love it
@Ghost....... Sweet Maker Allmighty!!!!! Move you goddam black spot!

I offically love you and consider you a member of the PP now Ghost.

Great....now that is going to be stuck in my head and I won't be doing any smut in my fic anytime soon.

Yeesh...You know now I have to wonder if Fenris would be amenable to spicing up the bedroom antics in that way...On one hand, he's a very independant person and the thought of being bound or restraining his partner might not appeal to him, especially after what he's been through, but on the other hand BDSM, as I understand it, isn't actually about force or abusing your partner...

Opinions?

[Dutchess]

Lol, okay, this is a... delicate topic for discussion. xD

But I think Fenris is a very long way from being willing to be bound in the bedroom like that. Perhaps he will never be ready for it. It would probably bring up a lot of negative and unpleasant memories. No, I don't think it will feel right for him, and doubt that he will be able to feel aroused in a situation like that.

[Maiafay]

renjility wrote...

Lol, okay, this is a... delicate topic for discussion. xD

But I think Fenris is a very long way from being willing to be bound in the bedroom like that. Perhaps he will never be ready for it. It would probably bring up a lot of negative and unpleasant memories. No, I don't think it will feel right for him, and doubt that he will be able to feel aroused in a situation like that.

You might be surprised. There are all sorts of psychological effects being restrained or bound, or even being in
slavery that have the opposite effect. I will be dealing with a few in my particular story, but even being raped might have some unintended behavioral quirks. Some rape victims have been known to become quite promiscuous after the event - in their way trying to lessen the emotional impact. It's been documented.

People are unpredictable, and it's safe to say that a traumatic event could have multiple mental side effects that
might not make sense to someone who has had a normal life.

Modifié par Maiafay, 21 février 2012 - 10:26 .