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The Official Fenris Discussion thread


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#48976
gingergen

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kemz19691 wrote...

It must be something like learning to walk again after decades of paralysis - the only memory of walking is as a child.  This is what it must feel like to Fenris - loving and trusting other ppl after so many years of slavery and isolation.

He also shocked me when he refused Hawke's comfort after he kills Hadrianna. Fenris is heavily gated and often I suspect he's unable to to really feel anything.

I was also surprised at his desire to connnect with Varania for other than just "I need to know who I am".  The 'affections' Danarius so fondly remembers are not true feelings - they were imagined by Danarius with his obedient slave.  Those kinds of experiences complicates someone's feelings - some may say his ability to love has atrophied.

Who knows? :?


I agree that he has seriously huge emotional walls. But I think learning to let those down is part of his growth. He does eventually let himself have feelings for Hawke, even though it's clearly difficult for him to come to terms with that. But even his ability to hang out with Donnic is a big step forward for him. 

I agree that he does sort of have to re-learn how people act. At the start of the game, he doesn't really know how to have a conversation, even. He went from being a slave not allowed to have his own thoughts, to a free man fiercely defending his ideas to the point of being unreasonable, and it takes him a while to find the middle ground of being able to exchange ideas with people without losing his sense of self. 

#48977
Night Dreams

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renjility wrote...

Lol, okay, this is a... delicate topic for discussion. xD

But I think Fenris is a very long way from being willing to be bound in the bedroom like that. Perhaps he will never be ready for it. It would probably bring up a lot of negative and unpleasant memories. No, I don't think it will feel right for him, and doubt that he will be able to feel aroused in a situation like that.


I agree, I can't see Fenris liking being in that situation at all. I think with him still struggling with keeping himself free and that absolute need for him to be recognised as no slave would supersede whatever sort of sexual joy tying him up like that could create. Its like what Flemeth says to him. "The chains are broken, but are you truly free?" and he agrees she sees a "great deal." Now if he himself believed even now he was not yet truly free (as he must still run from his former master) can it be concluded that he would hate the idea of someone taking away that little freedom he feels he now clings to? 

#48978
Arquen

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kemz19691 wrote...

How do you explain then Fenris' line: I'm not made of glass (not fragile). ?

Plus, Fenris was subjected to high and diverse levels of abuse - so he probaby has a pretty high pain threshold. I think Fenris could get kinky depending on his mood - he's just so damn unpredictable.  He shocks me at times with his flirtation - like, where the hell did that come from? And then, he would table a night's romp for some other vague moment in time. He's soooo unpredictable. I think it's more then just discipline - I think a lot of connections to others was destroyed during enslavement.

It must be something like learning to walk again after decades of paralysis - the only memory of walking is as a child.  This is what it must feel like to Fenris - loving and trusting other ppl after so many years of slavery and isolation.

He also shocked me when he refused Hawke's comfort after he kills Hadrianna. Fenris is heavily gated and often I suspect he's unable to to really feel anything.

I was also surprised at his desire to connnect with Varania for other than just "I need to know who I am".  The 'affections' Danarius so fondly remembers are not true feelings - they were imagined by Danarius with his obedient slave.  Those kinds of experiences complicates someone's feelings - some may say his ability to love has atrophied.

Who knows? :?


I'm surprised that this was actually shocking behavior traits. To me they seemed very predictable behavior for someone with a past like Fenris. He states himself when you first meet him that he "isn't accustomed to asking for help," and that "I've gotten used to hiding." Two things right there that set off the "he isn't going to trust you or get close to you" red flags.

The learning to walk again is a good example, and I agree with it, but it isn't just about trusting others either. He says "I have met few in my travels" who are not out for themselves. Not only is he being hunted, but he can't risk getting close to people because they would most likely betray him or sell him out for a chance at a reward. His instinctual attachment and deep rooted interest in his family is what drives him to hire Hawke in the first place. He thinks the information in the chest is information about his family. It isn't so much that he wants to find out who he is, but he wants to "open up a new world..." by finding out about them. He thinks finding out about his family will be that acceptance he always searched for, and the key to what this "freedom" thing is all about.

As for the "I'm not made of glass" comment. It's in response to a pity comment made by Hawke about how she/he was sorry for all Fenris has been through. He states he isn't made of glass, because he isn't fragile or emotional about it, and the last thing he wants is people feeling sorry for him. He's carved his path to freedom in blood, and he doesn't need or want comfort or pity because in the core of his being he "is alone" in his struggle both personal and external. Until Hawke. Yet still that engrained resistance to being comforted and pitied like some poor thing is the last thing he wants from anyone. It's insulting to him. Hence, it is perfectly understandable when Hawke is like "do you want to talk about it?" after Hadrianna he blows up at you. You're patronizing him. As for feeling.. he feels it all very deeply, but he has a mask of stoicness and emotionlessness because that is learned behavior from a slave and moreso from a victim of lifelong abuse. They learn to compartmentalize their feelings because showing emotion or reacting can often-times make them more vulnerable or incline their abuser toward harming them more.

Also, no doubt he has a high threshold for pain. He rarely complains of an injury, and compared to the other companions when he is wounded/ KO-ed he is very much a stoic with comments such as "this is not going to heal quickly," and "I sustained an injury in the last battle." Indicative a lot of someone who can take quite a few blows before they actually need or ask for a heal/ bandages. However, just because of that doesn't mean he would be into re-inacting or inflicting pain on anyone or having it being inflicted upon him. I don't see that happening, ever. Even for a kink. The psychological reprecussions, as well as the idea that he could use his own strength and Danarius given talents to cause someone else he cares about pain -- even in the most benign sense for pleasure. I think it would be a full turn off for him, and probably make him angry.

His flirting as well isn't very unpredictable, and I especially wasn't surprised he turns Hawke down flat during the Fog Warriors convo. He says in the very first convo that he will "practice his flattery for next visit," and he is adorably awkward at it. The thing about Fenris is he is honest, and he is honestly going to tell you what he thinks of you. In his flirts he says "you are unlike any other woman I have ever met.." or "I like a man who speaks his mind.." it is a simple truth and he is paying an honest compliment. When you look at it, all his flirts are simply that -- honest statements.

gahhh why do I always end up with a wall-o-text? I just... I have way too much to say about Fenris I guess. Please.. forgive me... I'll try to be concise when responding since everyone goes TL:DR anyways.:pinched:

#48979
Dutchess

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kemz19691 wrote...

 I think it's more then just discipline - I think a lot of connections to others was destroyed during enslavement.

It must be something like learning to walk again after decades of paralysis - the only memory of walking is as a child.  This is what it must feel like to Fenris - loving and trusting other ppl after so many years of slavery and isolation.


Fenris has no memory of his life before the ritual, meaning he doesn't have to re-learn, but to learn. He has no experience with building up relationships with other people at all, being it a friendship or a romance. It's not learning to walk after paralysis, but simply learning to walk. 

The only thing he feels once he is finaly free, is hatred. Hatred for Danarius, Hadriana, magic and slavery. I think because this is the only thing he truly feels himself after all those years, part of him clings to it. He feels magic has taken everything from him. Only his hatred it could not take. That makes it extra difficult to let it go. That is also (part of) the reason he wants to find his sister. He hopes she could tell him about the person he was before, that there was a person who was loved and could love. A person who is capable of more than hatred. 


And pic of sexy, happy Fenris is coming up:

Posted Image
also by 
caiterhe 

Dat ass!:wub::lol:


Edit: Arquen, I always read your posts. I find them very interesting and insightful.:) Don't stop!

Modifié par renjility, 22 février 2012 - 10:05 .


#48980
Maiafay

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Harle Cerulean wrote...

My opinion? I'm pretty sure Fenris would want nothing to do with dominance/submission play, or restraints beyond perhaps using a discarded belt; certainly no hardware, and collars are right out. While it is definitely true that reactions to trauma are many and varied, and every person's way of healing and coping is as valid as any other (provided it isn't a method that will hurt them even worse, e.g. heavy drinking for years, using drugs, or flirting with suicide), I don't see Fenris as wanting to reenact any moments from his slavery, whether with himself as the master or the slave. He might enjoy being dominant, but he would also enjoy his lover pushing back, a meeting of equals.


I didn't say "willingly" wanting such things. That would be an entirely different issue. Take the movie Shame, for instance. It's never said, and only a tad implied, but the main character Brandon I believe has been molested or sexually abused at some point in his life (source from Michael Fassbender who plays the character)

He has trouble connecting with a co-worker in one intimate scene, and becomes embarrassed by his lack of response. Yet, as soon as she leaves, he hires a prostitute and has no problem with his "response" or performance. The entire movie is his addiction to casual sex - to the point where he needs his fix so badly, he enters a gay bar when it's quite clear he's not gay. That's the low point for him (that and what happens after) and that's a perfect example of when someone cannot control themselves or their addiction.

This is what I mean, responses that are involuntary, shameful even, yet they happen. But I do realize everyone has their head canon, and everyone's "past" for Fenris is different. Some have Fenris just Danarius's bodyguard, some have him more than that. I have him just the bodyguard, but Hadriana visited often. That's canon for "me" and influences my version of Fenris. The ritual and what happens during that (which is vague in canon) is another factor - actually the deciding factor in his intimate responses in "my" story. As for why, I'm not going into depth here, but I'm not the only author has him tattooed in a certain spot, but I hope I'm not the only one who considers how he would be tattooed in that spot without a...taut canvas. Pain has the opposite effect (most of the time) on a man. So how would Danarius contend with that problem?

Again, my past, my canon for Fenris. YMMV and all that. I think my point is not to dimiss a story with some kink if the author has portrayed it in a realistic manner.

Modifié par Maiafay, 22 février 2012 - 02:57 .


#48981
aldien

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Nice buns!

So... has anyone decided if Fenris has to shave or can he mentally keep his bristles from growing or do elves not have body hair? Cause I'm seeing five o'clock shadow from where I'm sitting.

I can just see him trying to shave his face with that broadsword ;)

Modifié par aldien, 22 février 2012 - 05:08 .


#48982
CuriousArtemis

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aldien wrote...

Nice buns!

So... has anyone decided if Fenris has to shave or can he mentally keep his bristles from growing or do elves not have body hair? Cause I'm seeing five o'clock shadow from where I'm sitting.

I can just see him trying to shave his face with that broadsword ;)


"Elves don't grow beards." <-- spoken by Fenris in banter to Varric.

It's a cliche in sword and sorcery fantasy for elves to not have beards.  And we've never seen a male elf in Thedas with a beard, so presumably they're following this stereotype (which I have no problem with).  

Fenris' five o'clock shadow is something I rant about routinely <_< They did such a sloppy job on his skin.

#48983
AbsoluteApril

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after the Danarius fight when Hawke tells Fenris he's not alone, he has Hawke, the way Fenris looks at Hawke before he slumps his sholders and turns away to rant about magic is so touching, Like a spark has opened in Fen's heart, he is finally accepting that someone else cares for him and loves him; that it is okay and perhaps he loves them back. maybe I'm reading too much into that one look. It just gets me every time.


oh and I <3 Arquen wall o' text posts

#48984
CuriousArtemis

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AbsoluteApril wrote...

after the Danarius fight when Hawke tells Fenris he's not alone, he has Hawke, the way Fenris looks at Hawke before he slumps his sholders and turns away to rant about magic is so touching, Like a spark has opened in Fen's heart, he is finally accepting that someone else cares for him and loves him; that it is okay and perhaps he loves them back. maybe I'm reading too much into that one look. It just gets me every time.


You mean when Hawke says, "I'm here, Fenris," and Fenris comes and puts his hand on Hawke's cheek? :lol: I actually find that scene to be soooo cheesy xD  I always have an urge to select a different option other than the heart, but I'm so terified that if I don't select the heart every time I'll somehow bug up the relationship.

I do like to think that Fenris and Hawke move in together after this scene (and the QB after it, of course) ... yeah that's totally head canon, but it would be stupid for him to continue living alone after this.  His character arc would just be stagnant.  

#48985
Dutchess

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^That heart option is not essential for the romance to continue, don't worry.

#48986
aldien

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motomotogirl wrote...

aldien wrote...

Nice buns!

So... has anyone decided if Fenris has to shave or can he mentally keep his bristles from growing or do elves not have body hair? Cause I'm seeing five o'clock shadow from where I'm sitting.

I can just see him trying to shave his face with that broadsword ;)


"Elves don't grow beards." <-- spoken by Fenris in banter to Varric.

It's a cliche in sword and sorcery fantasy for elves to not have beards.  And we've never seen a male elf in Thedas with a beard, so presumably they're following this stereotype (which I have no problem with).  

Fenris' five o'clock shadow is something I rant about routinely <_< They did such a sloppy job on his skin.


Tolkien had one elf with a beard. I mention that because I think some of the backstory for the Elvhen was borrowed from The Silmarillion. Maybe not. It just sounds very familiar in places.

Elves don't grow beards, but is that by choice or does it just mean they can stop them from growing or do they jus shave?

I prefer no facial hair too. I love it.

I went and grabbed a picture of Fenris from a modelling program I have him in at the moment. You can get a really good look at his facial texture here... I think:

Posted Image

That's what he looks like before he is rendered by the game. I played around with his hair so you can see more of his forehead. The facial textures are quite... varied. Ah you just gotta love those polygons.

Modifié par aldien, 22 février 2012 - 06:37 .


#48987
aldien

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I meant to mention that one thing that would have been very difficult for them to do is to keep those lyrium lines going from his neck to his face without disconnecting. That's quite a feat. Or is it from the chest to the neck?? Hmmm can't remember.

Modifié par aldien, 22 février 2012 - 06:35 .


#48988
AbsoluteApril

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that is kinda cool and creepy at the same time! I really wish I knew more about modeling/mods and how that stuff is done.

motomotogirl wrote...
You mean when Hawke says, "I'm here, Fenris," and Fenris comes and puts his hand on Hawke's cheek? :lol: I actually find that scene to be soooo cheesy xD 


haha well yes, the DA world is full of cheese.. cheesy lines and cheesy wheels
That is the scene I'm talking about, I like the way he lightly touches Hawke's face and tilts his head to the side
but I do like me some cheese sometimes
Posted Image

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 22 février 2012 - 06:38 .


#48989
gingergen

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Maiafay wrote...

 But I do realize everyone has their head canon, and everyone's "past" for Fenris is different. (...)

Again, my past, my canon for Fenris. YMMV and all that. I think my point is not to dimiss a story with some kink if the author has portrayed it in a realistic manner.


Just to say, I appreciated your post, and absolutely agree with the above. :)

Arquen - I was also happy to read your wall o' text! Don't stop!

renjility wrote...
Fenris has no memory of his life before the ritual, meaning he doesn't have to re-learn, but to learn


Excellent point there.

Re: the skin conversation -- why DOES Fenris have more obvious pores than any of the other characters? It's weird. Also y'all are right about the beard shadow! I never thought about it before. That makes no sense if elves don't grow beards!

#48990
aldien

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gingergen wrote...

Maiafay wrote...

 But I do realize everyone has their head canon, and everyone's "past" for Fenris is different. (...)

Again, my past, my canon for Fenris. YMMV and all that. I think my point is not to dimiss a story with some kink if the author has portrayed it in a realistic manner.


Just to say, I appreciated your post, and absolutely agree with the above. :)

Arquen - I was also happy to read your wall o' text! Don't stop!

renjility wrote...
Fenris has no memory of his life before the ritual, meaning he doesn't have to re-learn, but to learn


Excellent point there.

Re: the skin conversation -- why DOES Fenris have more obvious pores than any of the other characters? It's weird. Also y'all are right about the beard shadow! I never thought about it before. That makes no sense if elves don't grow beards!


My guess and I'll leave at this since I kind of butt in to conversations too often with random topics.... To add texture. To help portray a weathered look or to simply set him way apart from the other male elves in the game. He's from a different part of Thedas. I think also, in a round about way, to make him look rough and to add visually to the idea that he has had a tortured life. I can see a bit of all of that in the skin.

The creators put an immense amount of work into character creation and their look. Every character in the game has something that sets them apart from the other and something that if you see in everyday life will make you think of them, like Isabela's head scarf thingy.

The worst texturing I have seen is on the female fingers.

Modifié par aldien, 22 février 2012 - 06:49 .


#48991
CuriousArtemis

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I don't mind the wall of text either but perhaps Arquen could provide a bulletted synopsis at the end of each post for those of us who have to read and run :lol:

gingergen wrote...

Re: the skin conversation -- why DOES Fenris have more obvious pores than any of the other characters? It's weird. Also y'all are right about the beard shadow! I never thought about it before. That makes no sense if elves don't grow beards!


Gahh Fenris' pores are so totally gross.  I don't like close-ups of him in the game; I actually prefer to see him in the party ... from far off, he has very lovely elven features and quite pretty eyes (as Isabela says).  But up close he has the skin texture of a 70 year old man, minus the wrinkles.  

And the beard shadow is just bizarre.  Like someone who doesn't understand the lore put it there and no one thought to correct him/her.  

Even if Tolkien himself had bearded elves, the stereotype is so pervasive that the LOTR film adaptation stuck to the cliche of male elves not having beards.  There is even a joke that in some scenes Orlando Bloom has a slight 5 o'clock shadow that no one managed to catch.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 22 février 2012 - 07:01 .


#48992
Harle Cerulean

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Personally, I very much like that Fenris looks weathered. He's not just a pretty face, and that makes it clear. Sure, he's still pretty, but he's a man who's been through a lot, and it shows in subtle ways, like his skin. I feel like it adds visual weight to his experiences. It's true that having smooth, well-moisturized skin wouldn't make what he experienced less terrible - but it's a good visual hint all the same.

#48993
CuriousArtemis

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Oh I wouldn't mind some crows feet at the eyes or a wrinkle in the brow or something. But his skin is just FUGLY lol He has pores the size of Jupiter. Get that man to a dermatologist, STAT!

#48994
kemz19691

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aldien wrote...


Tolkien had one elf with a beard. I mention that because I think some of the backstory for the Elvhen was borrowed from The Silmarillion. Maybe not. It just sounds very familiar in places.

Elves don't grow beards, but is that by choice or does it just mean they can stop them from growing or do they jus shave?

I prefer no facial hair too. I love it.

I went and grabbed a picture of Fenris from a modelling program I have him in at the moment. You can get a really good look at his facial texture here... I think:

Posted Image

That's what he looks like before he is rendered by the game. I played around with his hair so you can see more of his forehead. The facial textures are quite... varied. Ah you just gotta love those polygons.


I must ask this question - WHY ARE HIS FACIAL PORES SO DAMN LARGE!!! I SIT 15 FEET AWAY FROM MY BIG SCREEN AND CAN SEE THE PORES! OMGG!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! NO ONE HAS PORES THAT LARGE.

#48995
kemz19691

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I have questions re: descriptions of Fenris.

1) Would u say Fenris' nose is 'slender, arrow-shaped'?
2) Would you say Fenris' eyes are almond-shaped and large for his face?
3) Would you say Fenris had long dark eyelashes or does he wear makeup?
4) Would you say Fenris' lips are full but small for his face?
5) What color are his eyes - apple green? Sparkly?
6) What's your favorite 'Fenris' Feature?

#48996
kemz19691

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Also:

7) How old do you think Fenris looks?
8) How old do you think Fenris was during the ritual?

#48997
kemz19691

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To round out the page spamming, I hate Fenris' haircut. He looks as if he's survived abuse. His hair looks shabby and from the back, it appears uneven unhealthy in spots, as if his hair has been pulled out in clumps.

#48998
Harle Cerulean

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Well, given that he likely cuts his hair himself, with a knife and no mirror, I'd say it could look worse!

#48999
gingergen

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Answering a selection of your questions, kemz, because I am lazy.
2. I'd say Fenris' eyes are not so different from Merrill's in terms of size and shape. I think that's just the elf look for DA2.
3. I'd say the lashes and eyebrows are dark because his hair used to be dark... though I don't know if we have any actual legit canon for that or just artist fanon. I've internalized it, anyhow!
7. For age... I'd say he's supposed to look a bit older than the other characters, and he does, but I'm not sure if he's actually older, or if his looks are a reflection of his hard life. Since he has no memory of how old he was when he was given the markings, and we don't know how long he served Danarius, it's all speculation. In my head, he's around 30.

I actually like Fenris' hair. But it's completely impractical for fighting purposes -- it would always be falling into his face during battle! I've excused this in my head canon because I've decided the lyrium heightens his awareness, making him less reliant on visuals.

#49000
CuriousArtemis

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1. Never really thought about his nose
2. "almond-shaped" is a bit of a cliche. "Large" and "pretty" I'd say. (typical for an elf)
3. Long, dark eyelashes
4. He has full lips; I think it'd be rude to say they're full only in comparison to his face.
5. Green
6. His eyes -- very expressive
7. He looks about 35
8. I'd say he was around 19 during the ritual. He did compete, so he would have to be a full grown young man to physically best others.

I like to imagine that Fenbear is around 28-30 at the start of the game so he's in his mid to late 30s towards the end.

Oh, and I love his hair, too.