55380 réponses à ce sujet

[aldien]

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

We need some Backwater by the meatpuppets to start off my day. but this one will do.

Absolutely adored this! You've inspired me to make a comic Fenris file now!

[aldien]

So... I'm going to ask this question again because I am annoying. Do you think Fenris and elves in general are vegetarians?

[CuriousArtemis]

 YanaGoya is WELL KNOWN in the slash and BL community, so trust us ... she is a lady xD  You guys do know that EVERYYYYYY thing I write is m/m.  And there are thousands of us out there.  Thousands!
Maybe even millions...

Well perhaps not millions 

Aieeee I don't like when people turn Fenris' VA into ... Fenris.  It's bizarre!  

[CuriousArtemis]

aldien wrote...

So... I'm going to ask this question again because I am annoying. Do you think Fenris and elves in general are vegetarians?

Eh, no, they have Dalish hunters ... I assume they use their bows to ... go hunting.

[aldien]

Forgot about that. Thank you. Feeling sheepish.

Can I ask a question that will make me extremely unpopular as usual... I am going to ask it anyway.

Why do women write relationships between two men? I had a homosexual friend once comment that he felt it trivialized his relationships because: how would a woman have any clue what it is like to be a homosexual male. Is it just a turn on or an exploration into the psyche of homosexual males? Curious not trying to offend.

[CuriousArtemis]

It's not offensive at all lol No worries.

Ah that's such a deep question, really. The short answer for most women is, "it's hot!"

Of course it's so much more than that. When you have a m/m romance, you don't have to see a woman being forced into a heteronormative romance. It's also intensely satisfying to see one man submit to another ... I don't mean "submit" in the BDSM way (although some might) but more along the lines of, show vulnerability towards another man.

Also take not that slash and BL are not the same as gay. There is slash/BL romance (written/produced by women for women) and gay romance (written by men for men). You can think of BL as fantasy for women, but that doesn't necessarily mean the characters or situations are not realistic. And the BL community has really evolved in the last 30 or 40 years; many women favor couples who act more like "real gay couples" as opposed to a same-sex version of a heteronormative relationship, where one man acts as the "man" and the other the "woman."

As a teen, I DEVOURED books that featured m/m romance; it was so satisfying for me. I didn't mind het romance, but there were very few that I could tolerate. I needed the woman to be strong and smart, someone I could relate to. That was sadly rare at the time. Back then, I also needed the man in the het romance to be a bit, I don't know, weaker than the woman? I wanted HER to protect HIM. I was disgusted (and still am) at the thought of a man protecting a woman.

Now I take het romance on a case by case basis. Most of it I hate. Some of it I love! But when it comes to romance, I stick mostly to slash/BL. It's satisfying, it's sweet, and there are no girls! Double the fun

[Ghost_Nappa]

Hmmmmm I plead the fifth on that subject since its gonna involve some assuming on my end, but I'm not happy until I see a gay couple arguing across my house over so and so's kid being a little schizer. (misery loves company kinda of gal). So thats the closest I'll get to a M/M or F/F couple.

or I could put this up what my gay artist buddy had on his facebook.  Granted that last panel is gonna be him come ME3...also I got him addicted to Dragon age. Inception complete.

Modifié par Ghost_Nappa, 24 février 2012 - 12:16 .

[CuriousArtemis]

I love that meme!!! The problem with it is it doesn't really have a "name." So it's kind of hard to search for specific types. Like I know there was a "professor" one; I howled at that one xD (Cause I'm an English instructor.)

It is very funny that people readily accept a male wanting to enjoy two ladies getting it on, but people are shocked and amazed to hear that some women like to see/read about two hot guys Although in my case it's usually just one guy I find really hot, and the other is like, I dunno, a cute little thing for me to sigh and coo over? I'm looking at you, Fenris.

[Cosmochyck]

motomotogirl wrote...

I love that meme!!! The problem with it is it doesn't really have a "name." So it's kind of hard to search for specific types. Like I know there was a "professor" one; I howled at that one xD (Cause I'm an English instructor.)

It is very funny that people readily accept a male wanting to enjoy two ladies getting it on, but people are shocked and amazed to hear that some women like to see/read about two hot guys Although in my case it's usually just one guy I find really hot, and the other is like, I dunno, a cute little thing for me to sigh and coo over? I'm looking at you, Fenris.

Oh no no no.  Fenris is the HOT guy, so that leaves Hawke (or whomever) as the cutie

That piccie of Fenris "fanning" himself will NOT leave my brain.  SO disturbing.  Love the rest though. 

As for lanky guys, I picture basketball players builds being like Fenris - not the height, but the incredibly strong, lean muscle mass. 
And as a huge fan of Gideon Emery, he has a great lean build - and sexy voice to boot!  :innocent:

I've only recently read m/m fanfic, and some I really enjoy, and others are a little much for my apparently amateur tastes, but I understand why women would like it.  I truly think it is the vulnerability and emotion, and as moto put it, not the "normal" woman/man roles. 

More Fenris!  Ok, Fenris MLP - I couldn't help myself given the previous posts

by ~Orionca

[gingergen]

My turn to write a wall o' text. Sorry y'all.

motomotogirl wrote...
It is very funny that people readily accept a male wanting to enjoy two ladies getting it on, but people are shocked and amazed to hear that some women like to see/read about two hot guys

Seriously! Such a double standard. I will say, I never thought I'd be into slash fic, but I was completely won over by some amazing and amazingly hot stories that are out there. I don't think I'll ever write any, because my imagination doesn't naturally bend that way, but I'm perfectly willing to take some well-written m/m action to my bunk, ifyouknowwhatImean.

Also Moto, I thought this point was REALLY interesting

motomotogirl wrote...
Of course it's so much more than that. When you have a m/m romance, you
don't have to see a woman being forced into a heteronormative romance.
It's also intensely satisfying to see one man submit to another ... I
don't mean "submit" in the BDSM way (although some might) but more along
the lines of, show vulnerability towards another man.

As girls we grow up reading so many adventure stories told from the boy's perspective. There just isn't that much mainstream fiction about GIRLS being brave and adventurous and daring. (I'm not saying there aren't any - but the percentages are highly in the boys' favor.) I wonder if in a way that doesn't make us USED to putting ourselves in the boy's shoes, as it were?

Gender issues get especially complated when you are in a pseudo-medieval setting, IMO. I've read fantasy books which try to operate on the "This is a medieval-England type environment except oh yeah, women have equality". And you know what? They don't quite WORK. Too much of that environment is built on gender roles, whether it's issues of paternity, or division of labor, or fashion, or... whatever. When you try to take gender out as a factor, the world doesn't make sense anymore. (Maybe it's just that the books weren't written all that well. But my point is that it is a difficult hurdle.)

It seems to be less of an issue in games like DA2, where a lot of the details are deliberately left vague, so the player can fill them in. But when you're creating an environment with words, it seems to make the assumptions more obvious. And there are still plenty of gender differences tucked into DA2, anyway. (How about the romance cutscenes, for example? Where are the dudes in underwear?)

All of that to say -- I see the appeal of telling a story about 2 guys, and leaving all those issues out of the equation. Turn it into a story about two PEOPLE. And maybe those people are both ones that the author finds attractive. And maybe if they are both the same gender, there is less of a pressure to identify with one of them over the other, as well.

[Harle Cerulean]

Couple of quick notes:

First, BL is Japanese in origin, and is different from slash, which is of western origin, despite both involving two males. Please do not conflate them.

Second, read this re:  m/m by women vs f/f by men  (And I am very sorry in advance for the background image of that journal.  Even people with bad web design taste can have good points!) 

Third, read this re: whether or not slash is fetishizing and harmful to homosexual men.  (Again, sorry about the background!)

These links are to save me from typing a long, totally off-topic wall'o'text. 

So, about dat Fenris!

[CuriousArtemis]

I know the different origins of both but don't personally have a problem combining them

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I am working on a m/m DA fic but with the chantry being very much anti sodomy (which is as close to homosexuality as medieval language ever got). Now with doing it more true to the times, it does make very good fodder. M!MageHawke and Fenris are lovers but, of course now we have even more to hide and, more chances to get caught, and more for poor Fenris to question because well, loving a man romantically just isn't done openly and yet, that half crazed mage of his is dead set on doing just that and, his mage is the Champion. Good stuff

[kemz19691]

aldien wrote...

So... I'm going to ask this question again because I am annoying. Do you think Fenris and elves in general are vegetarians?

This is a great question and I'm going to give my opinion.

Prior to co-habitation with mankind, the Elvhen of Thedas were hunter-gatherers and clans roamed regions, never really sedentary. You can guess from their slender builds and prefered weapons that they ate mostly fish, eggs, grains, berries, fruit, wild vegetables, leafy greens and short-range fowl. 

Remember, Fenris hates fish becuase that's mostly what Danarius fed his slaves - so he got sick of it. Fish is slave food.  Fenris likes apples, probably becuase his kind are like fruit- and berry-eating species of birds/bats.  I think these Elves used to feed on a special nectar that gave them high energy. I bet this is some kind of flower or a special juice from a melon-type fruit.

I don't think they ate deer, bovine, noble birds, or other meaty animals. I think some animals are sacred and aren't eaten, not even on high (holy) days.  You can tell from their build compared to men (which are more robust).

Does this work?

[kemz19691]

If Fenris was an animal, what would he be?

I think Fenris would be a cross between a cat and a bat. I think a lot of people would say cat because of his appearance and movements, but a bat? I think Fenris has very bat-like features.

[kemz19691]

motomotogirl wrote...

 YanaGoya is WELL KNOWN in the slash and BL community, so trust us ... she is a lady xD  You guys do know that EVERYYYYYY thing I write is m/m.  And there are thousands of us out there.  Thousands!
Maybe even millions...

Well perhaps not millions 

Aieeee I don't like when people turn Fenris' VA into ... Fenris.  It's bizarre!  

You're rubbing off on me Today while reading an article about Federer's desire to meet Jeremy Lin, I started hoping they would fall in love and their relationship would become the biggest story in sports history.

This m!Hawke + Fenris thing is starting to make make me see potential love-matches in real life. :(Some of my friends find this disturbing.  I, however, LOVE IT - what's wrong with two men falling in love? Nothing. I think society is starting to see love differently now. Who cares who we love as long as it's love and as long as we're not related and it doesn't involve children or animals (according to Hawke) it's fine!!!!! <3

[kemz19691]

aldien wrote...

Forgot about that. Thank you. Feeling sheepish.

Can I ask a question that will make me extremely unpopular as usual... I am going to ask it anyway.

Why do women write relationships between two men? I had a homosexual friend once comment that he felt it trivialized his relationships because: how would a woman have any clue what it is like to be a homosexual male. Is it just a turn on or an exploration into the psyche of homosexual males? Curious not trying to offend.

MotoMotogirl took the words right out of my response! I think male-on-male action is HOT! HOT! HOT!!! I have some curiosities which I can't begin to go into right now, but I actually think it's beautiful.  I mean, we see men dominate men in sports - why not in love?  Maybe something's wrong with me. I'm a 42 year old woman and I've felt this way for many decades. However, I wouldn't want a family man (married to a woman and has children) to abandon his family to be with a man. Something like that would confuse everyone. Just like I wouldn't want a family man to abandon his family to be with another woman (that's just wrong).

I hold up the sanctity of marriage - but if two men want to marry, let them! If two men want to <3, let them! As long as they don't hurt each other.  Life is what it is - and when you can find happiness in loving someone else, do it!

[kemz19691]

motomotogirl wrote...

It's not offensive at all lol No worries.

Ah that's such a deep question, really. The short answer for most women is, "it's hot!"

Yes it is.

Of course it's so much more than that. When you have a m/m romance, you don't have to see a woman being forced into a heteronormative romance. It's also intensely satisfying to see one man submit to another ... I don't mean "submit" in the BDSM way (although some might) but more along the lines of, show vulnerability towards another man.

Also take not that slash and BL are not the same as gay. There is slash/BL romance (written/produced by women for women) and gay romance (written by men for men). You can think of BL as fantasy for women, but that doesn't necessarily mean the characters or situations are not realistic. And the BL community has really evolved in the last 30 or 40 years; many women favor couples who act more like "real gay couples" as opposed to a same-sex version of a heteronormative relationship, where one man acts as the "man" and the other the "woman."

What does BL mean?

[kemz19691]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Couple of quick notes:

First, BL is Japanese in origin, and is different from slash, which is of western origin, despite both involving two males. Please do not conflate them.

Second, read this re:  m/m by women vs f/f by men  (And I am very sorry in advance for the background image of that journal.  Even people with bad web design taste can have good points!) 

Third, read this re: whether or not slash is fetishizing and harmful to homosexual men.  (Again, sorry about the background!)

These links are to save me from typing a long, totally off-topic wall'o'text. 

So, about dat Fenris!

What the hell is slash? What the hell is BL? I need a damn translator 

[Harle Cerulean]

BL means "boys' love." It's a genre of manga and anime from Japan, and tends to have very heteronormative relationships where one of the men may as well be a woman; there are exceptions, and those are slowly growing more common, but it's still normal for one man to be feminized. Slash comes from "Kirk/Spock" fiction written in 'zines, back in the day of the original Star Trek. It refers to the slash between the names, and is a genre of western fanfiction which pairs male characters together. The relationships in slash tend to feminize one of the men less than in BL, though it still happens, to varying extents depending on the author, their levels of writing skill, their familiarity with how the type of relationship they're trying to portray works, etc.

I'm opposed to lumping the genres together because 1) they have different cultural roots, and 2) they have different conventions, customs, and cultures between the groups who participate in their creation. They're not the same thing. XD

Enough of my being pedantic, though . . .

Elves definitely eat meat. I'd argue with the "hunter-gatherer" notion. Remember, prior to living side-by-side with humans, they had the great city of Arlathan. Hunter-gatherers migrate with their prey. They don't build expansive, legendary cities. Domestication of plants and animals is what allows cities to grow and flourish. Just because the Dalish live like that now, that doesn't reflect on how elves used to live! They're nomadic hunters because they have no land, no country. They can't stay in one place, because humans drive them off or kill them.

You make very, very specific assumptions based on pretty much no information, kemz. Which is your privilege if you want to for your headcanon, but I'll have to respectfully decline to agree. XD

[CuriousArtemis]

Methinks Fenny would like apples because fruit would be a luxury forbidden to slaves D:

EDIT: Oh, Harle, we should add that slash is associated with male readers and writers as well as female, whereas BL is typically "by women for women."

But I do know some gay boys who like BL.

I think the genres are blurring due to cultural globalization ... but yeah they do have different origins xD 

Oh I once tried looking up some Star Trek slash ... a lot of it is written by men.  It's ... well ... there's a lot of sex.  Which was not exactly what I was looking for lol Oh well.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 24 février 2012 - 05:02 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Haha, yes, that's part of the cultural differences I glossed over. XD

And yeah, I imagine that fresh fruits were not often something to grace his meals. No sense wasting good food on slaves, after all. Grains, beans, and vegetables made up the majority, given what I know of the kind of cuisine the Byzantine Empire had (which is what Tevinter is based off of, to my understanding). Bread would likely have been smeared with a paste made from the fermented entrails of fish called "garum," which is where I figure Fenris got his distaste for fish from (EDIT: actually, rereading it again, I noticed that the paste is called 'allec', and garum is the liquid, which was more expensive, so he'd have had the allec, most likely.  Eh, reading comprehension, what is that).

I mean, seriously.  Fermented fish guts.

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 24 février 2012 - 06:28 .

[kemz19691]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Elves definitely eat meat. I'd argue with the "hunter-gatherer" notion. Remember, prior to living side-by-side with humans, they had the great city of Arlathan. Hunter-gatherers migrate with their prey. They don't build expansive, legendary cities. Domestication of plants and animals is what allows cities to grow and flourish. Just because the Dalish live like that now, that doesn't reflect on how elves used to live! They're nomadic hunters because they have no land, no country. They can't stay in one place, because humans drive them off or kill them.

You make very, very specific assumptions based on pretty much no information, kemz. Which is your privilege if you want to for your headcanon, but I'll have to respectfully decline to agree. XD

One of the oldest "citIies" in what is now Turkey was established and maintained by hunter-gatherers. They had one of the oldest temples.

You assume that a city = agriculture, animal farms & husbandry. Not true. Plus, elves are not human and they may have had access to an abundant source of "food" naturally available in that environment.

I based my assumptions about meat-eating on the fact on what I remember from DAO and the Dalish there.  They kept deer-like animals but didn't eat them, if my memory serves me correctly.  They herd animals but don't necessarily eat them.  There are indigenous people who do that and still hunt-gather. 

PLUS! I have yet to come across an 'elf farmer' in DAO or DA2, so I could assume farming is not something common among them.

Also, their build is so slight I can't say they are big game meat-eaters.  I assume they eat small game, berries, fruits, wild vegetables, etc. as do most hunter-gatherers.

Modifié par kemz19691, 24 février 2012 - 10:53 .

[Dutchess]

aldien wrote...

Forgot about that. Thank you. Feeling sheepish.

Can I ask a question that will make me extremely unpopular as usual... I am going to ask it anyway.

Why do women write relationships between two men? I had a homosexual friend once comment that he felt it trivialized his relationships because: how would a woman have any clue what it is like to be a homosexual male. Is it just a turn on or an exploration into the psyche of homosexual males? Curious not trying to offend.

Lol, you know, my boyfriend asked me the exact same question, and I didn't really have an answer. I'm not sure why I like it and why I decided to write my fic with male Hawke, other than that the inspiration just came to me in that way I find it hot, but that's not all. Why these kind of realationships have my interest I can't explain, because I don't even fully understand myself. That sounds stupid of course, but... yeah.

However, it's not that m/m really has my preference. I enjoy stories of heterosexual pairings, and don't really recognize myself in moto's argument. I like it when the woman is strong, sure, but I also don't mind when she is portrayed as the softer person. That's probably because I'm more like that myself. I'm not that tough.

I haven't tried any f/f stuff yet, but I think I can see the appeal in that as well.

Uhm... so, yes, random rambling.

Here's the second Fenris naked sketch by Aaorin

[Dutchess]

Oh, come on. Why all the double posts suddenly?

@ Harle: isn't the Tevinter Imperium supposed to similar to the Roman Empire?

Modifié par renjility, 24 février 2012 - 10:16 .