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[dangereusegirl]

kemz19691 wrote...

dangereusegirl wrote...
Samia, my rogue, would probably be the one with kids. They'd be unplanned, seeing as how she wouldn't be thinking about birth control, and Fenris would probably feel compelled to marry her so that she wouldn't have to live with the shame (in his opinion) of being the mother of an elf's bastard children.

That kinda made me laugh :happy: but then it raised (in my mind) another issue we really haven't discussed here: the Feynriel[/b] Child, which is the mixed-race offspring of man and elf.

My impression from the game is, these children/adults have an extremely difficult time in Thedas.  They are not accepted by Elvhen nor Men.  Although Fenris doesn't embrace his culture/kind (implied from some of David Gaider's posts), I don't think he would want to bring a Feynriel child into this world.  Given the perception of elves and treatment (e.g., alienages), I think the child/ren would probably wish to identify as human. Now, Feynriel was raised by an elf mother and in the alienage, so this may not be a good comparison.  If Hawke and Fenris had children (and assuming Hawke survives childbirth), the children would probably be raised human. It seems that Thedas makes you choose - "either or". 

I agree that they'd have a difficult time. You would too if you were a union between two races that conflict with each other on a regular basis. I think one of the main issues with being half-elf is how the parents treat the offspring. In the case of Feynriel, his father didn't want anything to do with him. While that probably has little do with him being part elf, and more with Vinceto being a player, we do see that Feynriel craves his father's approval. In a scenario like that, its easy to see why a half-elf would want to identify more with the human parent.

On a side note, was I the only one to cheer Feynriel for helping that one girl in Act 3? I almost wanted my Hawke to go 'Way to go.' 

As for the Fen/Hawke babies, they most likely would be raised human if only because both parents don't have any real strong connections to elven culture. Sure, Fenris knows some things, but he's not that connected with alienage elves and he doesn't really seem to like the Dalish. Their children might be raised with some knowledge of elven culture, but Hawke and Fenris would probably be focused on other aspects. Of course, if they were still on friendly terms with Merrill, she could probably teach them some things.

Jumping back to my Hawke and Fenris relationship, I think the main issue with her having his children is that Fenris doesn't want anyone to say anything negative about her because of him. Early in their relationship, he is very hesitant to show public displays of affection, because he doesn't want her reputation to be sullied. Samia finds this ridiculous, and doesn't hesitate to tell him so.  There would probably be this huge argument about him wanting to marry her, which would probably end like the post-Hadriana conversation. Minus the leaving part of course. 

EDIT: ToP? Wheeeeeeee

link because its too big to post here. made me giggle when i saw it. from someone on tumblr.

Modifié par dangereusegirl, 29 février 2012 - 09:49 .

[AbsoluteApril]

kemz19691 wrote...

I have a probing question: What the hell are those pockets for on Fenris' belt? Wonder what he carries in those. Sebastian has the same pockets - but Sebastian has stuff he can carry in those - like tomes, or prayers, or amulets or something. Wonder what Fenris carries in his?

mm health poultices? stamina potions?  a small wine flask maybe?

[dangereusegirl]

Um....that picture is.....something else.

Look at the position of his-ahem- sword. >.<

-tries to get mind out of gutter-

I always assumed it'd be things for potions. Or quick little meals he could eat while on the run.

[AbsoluteApril]

heh yeah I know.. but I didn't want to say anything dirty

>has a giggle fit<

the POCKETS, look at the pockets

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 29 février 2012 - 09:57 .

[dangereusegirl]

-giggles-

oh good. i'd hate to be the only one thinking it.

mmm 'i gotta pocket, got a pocket full of sunshine. woah. woah-oh'

-whistles innocently-

[CuriousArtemis]

oh GOD, you two!  *CANNOT UNSEE* 

This talk of human/elf offspring reminds me of Desiree's Baby.

The fact that Fenris is an elf (considered an "inferior" race by humans) and a former slave ... it's always impossible for me to not think of Black slavery in America, for all their talk of Tevinter and the Roman Empire! 

And yeah I know there are human slaves in Tevinter, too, but still.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 29 février 2012 - 10:16 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Honestly, Feynriel saving that girl scared the crap out of me - and I'd imagine out of Fenris as well! Just think. His somniari powers allowed him to reach Kirkwall, from somewhere in Tevinter, and he used it to cause a bunch of bandits to kill each other.

Sure, good deed! That's awesome. But Tevinter is an incredibly corrupt place, and I don't think Feynriel is immune to the corrupting influence.

So what happens when he gives in to temptations?

[CuriousArtemis]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Honestly, Feynriel saving that girl scared the crap out of me - and I'd imagine out of Fenris as well! Just think. His somniari powers allowed him to reach Kirkwall, from somewhere in Tevinter, and he used it to cause a bunch of bandits to kill each other.

Sure, good deed! That's awesome. But Tevinter is an incredibly corrupt place, and I don't think Feynriel is immune to the corrupting influence.

So what happens when he gives in to temptations?

Yep, I felt the exact same way.  Feynriel is TERRIFYING.  And I really suspect he will reappear in DA3.  I understand that in ASUNDER it's reveal that the Rite of Tranquility can be reversed, so even if you made Feynriel tranquil, he's going to come back, all powerful and ready to slaughter you in your dreams *shudder*

And on top of that, he's a total brat. <_<

[AbsoluteApril]

dangereusegirl wrote...

mmm 'i gotta pocket

Fenris has got a HOT POCKET

gawd I'm sorry.. brain.. won't get out of...gutter

[AbsoluteApril]

oh and I think Ghost mentioned Cary Elwes earlier and I just found this on photobucket

[dangereusegirl]

AbsoluteApril wrote...

dangereusegirl wrote...

mmm 'i gotta pocket

Fenris has got a HOT POCKET

gawd I'm sorry.. brain.. won't get out of...gutter

so many many things i could say, i don't even know where to begin 

and its nice here in the gutter. might as well get cosy 

[Harle Cerulean]

Also, what Fenris keeps in his pouches:

Whetstone
Cleaning rags
Oil for his sword and armour
Flint
Potions
Money
Needle and thread.

In short, the necessities for keeping himself and his gear maintained. (And flint for making fires.)

[kemz19691]

AbsoluteApril wrote...

kemz19691 wrote...

I have a probing question: What the hell are those pockets for on Fenris' belt? Wonder what he carries in those. Sebastian has the same pockets - but Sebastian has stuff he can carry in those - like tomes, or prayers, or amulets or something. Wonder what Fenris carries in his?

mm health poultices? stamina potions?  a small wine flask maybe?

AbsoluteApril, for a moment I thought you posted a 'No-No' picture - but then i realized it was the tip of his blade (sword).    Yeah. Disappointing.

He's looking HOT! HOT! HOT!  Given that Fenris is a virgin, I wonder how hard it would be to teach him 'things' like technique, etc.?  Would anything Hawke knows or is curious about shock him? I don't think Hawke would be unkind or cruel or humilate him in anyway.

Although he's been exposed to a lot, he seems so innocent. Sometimes, I think Fenris knows more than he lets on. During the Anniversary of MY Escape Speeches, he flirts heavily with Hawke and it makes me wonder. 

[kemz19691]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Honestly, Feynriel saving that girl scared the crap out of me - and I'd imagine out of Fenris as well! Just think. His somniari powers allowed him to reach Kirkwall, from somewhere in Tevinter, and he used it to cause a bunch of bandits to kill each other.

Sure, good deed! That's awesome. But Tevinter is an incredibly corrupt place, and I don't think Feynriel is immune to the corrupting influence.

So what happens when he gives in to temptations?

GASP! Another Danarius??!

[kemz19691]

AbsoluteApril wrote...

oh and I think Ghost mentioned Cary Elwes earlier and I just found this on photobucket

I loved Princess Bride!!! A younger Elwes would make an excellent Fenris! I wonder if he tried out for Lord of the Rings? He would have made a perfect Fenris 20 years ago. 

[kemz19691]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Also, what Fenris keeps in his pouches:

Whetstone
Cleaning rags
Oil for his sword and armour
Flint
Potions
Money
Needle and thread.

In short, the necessities for keeping himself and his gear maintained. (And flint for making fires.)

I assumed from his gambling addiction and slight dependence on the "tap", he stayed broke. Yeah - he had some money to send for his sister, but that was after some pretty big jobs.

I wondered why Fenris owed Varric so much coin given they made it big in the Deep Roads? I mean, if Hawke shared her money with companions - Fenris should have had enough to buy a mansion himself!

[kemz19691]

Harle Cerulean:

Remember that Cary Elwes played "Robin Hood: Men in Tights"? He looked good in those tights- similar to what Fenris wears But he used a ranged weapon not a sword.

[kemz19691]

motomotogirl wrote...

oh GOD, you two!  *CANNOT UNSEE* 

This talk of human/elf offspring reminds me of Desiree's Baby.

I read it - well written! Thank you for the recommendation!

[aldien]

kemz19691 wrote...

aldien wrote...

Of all the things in the game that tried to portray how bad slavery was and why it's wrong, THIS should have been the one thing that really drove the point home. But it wasn't. Here have him Danarius. Thank you. Okay, now I am a really evil character. Yay me. It just gets to me that you can actually participate in slave trading! Ah! It's a bad example to set.

Maybe instead of losing your companions you lose the respect of the city. Something more than getting 3 sovereigns, -10 popularity with companions, and a note from Danarius telling you he is now going to wipe Fenris's memory. Uggggg.... even after reading some very good arguments I still can't be convinced it was handled properly. I'll just agree to disagree.

To play the game, you have to choose a career in crime, either as a smuggler (which may mean you will need to recover slaves) or as an assassin. Hawke really isn't a good person, so it wouldn't be beneath her/him to do such a thing?

I disagree. Recovering slaves is an assumption on your part.

Smuggling goods for a small time thief isn't going to involve slavery. If it did, I doubt Athenril would need an unknown person's (or rookie's) helps since they make so much money off of slaves. They would have a network since it is illegal in that part of Thedas. Plus, someone like Castillon wouldn't be dealing with someone like Gamlen. Gamlen owes some debts, like a guy who bets on the wrong horse. Castillon, on the other hand, is extremely powerful.  Crime isn't just crime. There are degrees of wrong doing.

Slavery isn't a topic until Hawke has the option to rid slavers of she/he families former estate. She/he is not faced with the moral issue of slavery until then.

In my opinion, Hawke is niether good or bad in the beginning. She/he is a person thrown into the deep end without much choice. But we are not dealing with powerful corrupt people at the start. It's just small time. Athenril even states later that she is smuggling things like silk etc... nothing extreme.

[aldien]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Hawke says: "If you want him, you can have him."

Or was it "If you want him, he's yours.? I'm in class, can't check the exact wording. XD One of those, though.

Thanks for letting me know. I hate to interrupt class! I really had a hard time finding the actual dialogue.

Modifié par aldien, 01 mars 2012 - 12:10 .

[kemz19691]

aldien wrote...

In my opinion, Hawke is niether good or bad in the beginning. She/he is a person thrown into the deep end without much choice. But we are not dealing with powerful corrupt people at the start. It's just small time. Athenril even states later that she is smuggling things like silk etc... nothing extreme.

We know Gamlen gets a number of threats by letter if he doesn't pay up his debts. I think he requires sells Hawke and her sibling into servitude becuase he OWES so much money.  And then he's often found in the Blooming Rose? And he asks Leandra to give him money for food and stuff?

Gamlen's an insolent jerk, no question. I think Hawke was forced to work in the criminal underground to save his **s.

Modifié par kemz19691, 01 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[aldien]

kemz19691 wrote...

dangereusegirl wrote...
Samia, my rogue, would probably be the one with kids. They'd be unplanned, seeing as how she wouldn't be thinking about birth control, and Fenris would probably feel compelled to marry her so that she wouldn't have to live with the shame (in his opinion) of being the mother of an elf's bastard children.

That kinda made me laugh :happy: but then it raised (in my mind) another issue we really haven't discussed here: the Feynriel[/b] Child, which is the mixed-race offspring of man and elf.

My impression from the game is, these children/adults have an extremely difficult time in Thedas.  They are not accepted by Elvhen nor Men.  Although Fenris doesn't embrace his culture/kind (implied from some of David Gaider's posts), I don't think he would want to bring a Feynriel child into this world.  Given the perception of elves and treatment (e.g., alienages), I think the child/ren would probably wish to identify as human. Now, Feynriel was raised by an elf mother and in the alienage, so this may not be a good comparison.  If Hawke and Fenris had children (and assuming Hawke survives childbirth), the children would probably be raised human. It seems that Thedas makes you choose - "either or". 

a Feynriel child into this world

He wouldn't be bringing a Feynriel child into the world. He would be bringing his own child into the world. Labelling them the same is kind of like saying 80% dark chocolate is the same as 60% dark chocolate. It is a different quality in life and attitude on the parents part.

When an elf and a human mate in the DA world, the child is born human. Children look to their parents in the beginning for acceptance. You can be any race from anywhere and all a child will want is love and understanding. Other people will point out their differences, but if you raise a child to have high self esteem it won't matter. You can't sell that, define it, or conquer it.

assuming Hawke survives childbirth  Errrrrrrr why did that come up?


the children would probably be raised human  They would be raised according to how you see Hawke and Fenris. Fenris is an elf and that is nothing to be ashamed of. He is what he is. Fenris seems too practical to deny that part of himself to please Hawke or to cater completely to the human side of things. Actually, when has Fenris never been honest? He's honest to the point of it being cruel at times. He doesn't have to adhere to an extreme view of Elvhen or Dalish tradition to still uphold what it is to be an elf. He is an elf, but firstly a person! And with that, no matter how much conditioning, it is a factor life and body. It can't be avoided. He states he is an elf in Act II. It's not like he has forgotten.

Thedas makes you choose - "either or".

No. You choose. It doesn't have to be either/or. It can be mutual respect for differences.

Modifié par aldien, 01 mars 2012 - 12:46 .

[Arcane_Solona]

AbsoluteApril wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...
David Gaider wrote him, after all, and we know what he's like. XD If he can pack tragedy and betrayal in, it'll be there in spades.

(side note - it struck me the other day on my recent DAO PT how both Alistair and Fenris have quests involving a 'lost' sister)

Hey! Yeahh! That never ocurred to me! And they're both redheads and they both turned out to be...well... not the best personalities. Funny coincedence indeed.

EDIT: Ooops. Realised that this post is so out of place on this page. Don't mind me... I'm just an ex-regular poster trying to catch up.

Modifié par Arcane_Solona, 01 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[aldien]

kemz19691 wrote...

aldien wrote...

In my opinion, Hawke is niether good or bad in the beginning. She/he is a person thrown into the deep end without much choice. But we are not dealing with powerful corrupt people at the start. It's just small time. Athenril even states later that she is smuggling things like silk etc... nothing extreme.

We know Gamlen gets a number of threats by letter if he doesn't pay up his debts. I think he requires sells Hawke and her sibling into servitude becuase he OWES so much money.  And then he's often found in the Blooming Rose? And he asks Leandra to give him money for food and stuff?

Gamlen's an insolent jerk, no question. I think Hawke was forced to work in the criminal underground to save his **s.

But.... how does any of that = recovering slaves? Sure, Gamlen gets threats because he owes money. Yes, he sells Hawke into servitude to clear his debts. It still has nothing to do with slaves or whether Hawke is a good person or bad. Honestly, the fact Hawke is willing to lower himself/herself to this level shows that they are considerate of others. They want to help their family and they help Gamlen, though he doesn't deserve it.

It is all small time criminal activity in my opinion. I can't see slaves in this scenario nor can I see it a defining factor when it comes to whether Hawke is bad or good. 

[aldien]

Arcane_Solona wrote...

AbsoluteApril wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...
David Gaider wrote him, after all, and we know what he's like. XD If he can pack tragedy and betrayal in, it'll be there in spades.

(side note - it struck me the other day on my recent DAO PT how both Alistair and Fenris have quests involving a 'lost' sister)

Hey! Yeahh! That never ocurred to me! And they're both redheads and they both turned out to be...well... not the best personalities. Funny coincedence indeed.

EDIT: Ooops. Realised that this post is so out of place on this page. Don't mind me... I'm just an ex-regular poster trying to catch up.

I remember you from way back when!

LOL! Nothing is out of place on this page. It's all insanity.