55380 réponses à ce sujet

[jackofalltrades456]

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

Sorry I had to put this up after reading the Jezebel March madness Sex vs Chocolate brackets....and came across this!

Your welcome.

That's.... creepy.

[CuriousArtemis]

aldien wrote...

 Is Hawke the last resort because, at times, it feels like that.
...

Saying he finally gives in is kind of like saying he gives up, Ren, imo.

Still disagree; think he's finally opening up and is willing to accept love (or more importantly, accept that he is love-able).

Sorry to not elaborate, still need to not type

[coldwetn0se]

Just a quick little note: @Ghosta....I actually love that (creepy apparantely) chocolate pic! Such pretty eyes, as Issy would say.

As for make up talk, I honestly think it is merely a gaming device: simply put, since every other line Hawke can give during the "you have me, Fenris.." scene in the Hanged Man (after D. is killed), is not, well, THAT line, it was easier (cost/resource wise) to just have it set up to work if you had NOT said the "ya have me, blasted Elf!" line. so, I don't sweat it, or read anything into it.

[Ghost_Nappa]

I think there might be a certain uncanny valley to the picture that sets people off....I mean only reason it makes me shudder a little is...because is soo close up and personal....that and I just friggin love chocolate.

So weird sexy wires being crossed.

[Nilfalasiel]

I agree with motomoto: I don't think Fenris' lines are meant to be interpreted as "Hawke comes second". First of all, they're not actually in a relationship at the time that he brings this up, so he really does have "nothing". Secondly, he thinks he's been an idiot for walking out on her/him, and Hawke can turn him away at this point, so he's justified in feeling uncertain. Thirdly, Hawke's "I'm here, Fenris" after the Varania episode doesn't necessarily sound romantic: it could very well be that Hawke has gotten over him, forgiven his actions and moved on, and yet is still being supportive as a friend. He needs confirmation that there are still feelings there before he can say with any certainty "yes, I still have this" (since, as we all know, he's not exactly Mr Confidence). Therefore, last but not least, he might very well be using the "I have nothing" spiel during the discussion at his house to draw Hawke back on the topic of "let's talk about us". Kinda like:

"I have nothing (*hint hint* Please say I didn't misinterpret what you told me back at the Hanged Man...Do you still want me, even though I've been a massive idiot?)"

I also don't think that "Hawke comes second" applies to the other possible LIs either. I don't know enough about Merrill's or Isabela's romances to make any authoritative statements, but doesn't the former end up giving up on the Eluvian or destroying it? That's making her priorities clear. And the latter returns the Tome of Koslun then gets involved in a conflict she has zero interest in, even if you get her a ship. I'd say that amounts to putting Hawke first, whether as a friend or as a lover.

As for Anders, not only would I think less of him if he suddenly gave up all thoughts of mage rebellion because of Hawke, but the entire mess occurs because he wants to keep her/him out of any unnecessary danger. It's misguided concern (after all, Hawke's already gotten involved), but it's still concern. Remember what he says after the Justice quest, when you come see him "you are the most important thing in my life, but some things are more important than my life". Not "than you". If it was only up to him, I'm sure he'd gladly forget about everything and just settle down with Hawke. But there are other lives at stake. Abandoning them at this point would simply be selfish. And Anders is many things, but selfish is not one of them. It's not Hawke that comes second, it's his own life.

Finally, to go back a bit, I also let Varania live. She's just the middle-man (or woman): Danarius is the real cause of all this misery, so killing her won't bring Fenris any more closure than killing him does. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure he'd end up feeling guilty of killing his only remaining family just because some a**hole magister decided to manipulate them both. Besides, it's a step in the right direction for moving past his anger. And I also bring Varric along for added weight, since I never kill Bartrand either, even though he'd deserve it a lot more than Varania. My reasoning is that they might deserve it, but neither Varric nor Fenris deserve to stoop to their level or live with the guilt.

Modifié par Nilfalasiel, 31 mars 2012 - 10:42 .

[Dutchess]

 I don't think the timing of Fenris' confession means Hawke's comes second to Danarius. Keep in mind that Fenris did not feel worthy of Hawke's love. He could not see himself as Hawke's equal. As long as he was a runwaway slave, with an evil master somewhere who would not give up hunting him, Fenris was unable to move on and live as a free man. This prevents him from letting the past go, give everything that happened to him a place, so instead he is stuck with his hatred. 
All this time he does care about Hawke. That's why he left after they had slept together. He cared about Hawke and believed he/she deserved something better. He felt like he had nothing to offer. At the same time he tries to deny his own feelings to himself. To make it easier, probably. So he continues to focus on his hatred.

But then, finally, Danarius is dead. So then, all of a sudden, he is truly, completely free. The main source of his hatred is suddenly gone as well. And then, as a free man, he can allow himself to admit he loved Hawke, and still does. He feels he can finally move on, build a life of his own. And he would like to have Hawke in that life. Not because he is afraid to be alone, or end up alone, but because nothing could be worse than have that life he has been fighting for without Hawke in it. 

That Fenris chooses to try to solve his issues first does not mean Hawke comes second to his problems. He simply believes to even come close to deserving someone like Hawke, he has to become a "better" person first. He thinks it is not fair to try to tie down Hawke while he has nothing to offer, not even the promise of building a life together, because Fenris can't do that yet. 
Soooo... question answered, aldien?:whistle:

Modifié par renjility, 31 mars 2012 - 01:31 .

[nightscrawl]

aldien wrote...

My second question that I've always wanted to ask:

Do you think Fenris asked Hawke for forgiveness because he was afraid he would end up alone?

motomotogirl wrote...

He apologizes because he feels guilty and he realizes finally how important Hawke is to him and how much this is hanging over him (Fenris). 

I think he knows at this point (or should know) that Hawke won't leave him.  After all, s/he has been faithful to him for these three long years.

I thought this was the perfect response to the question.

aldien wrote...

Let me expand. I was trying to avoid wordy, but because this question is the one that is the most important to me I feel I need to add more.

For the first several play throughs of the game, I didn't give much thought to the comments Fenris says during the makeup scene. But... after awhile something started to bug me. In the Hanged Man, before you tell him you are there for him he says: I am alone. So, you tell him you have me.

He says later during the makeup scene, summarized: I don't have enemy, my sister is gone (if you let her live) and I quote: I have nothing.

So, Hawke comes after sister, Danarius and nothing. Once Hawke convinces him he has future then he goes into the comments concerning, we never discussed three years ago. It put doubt in my mind. Is Hawke the last resort because, at times, it feels like that.

I agree with Moto, he is a family man, whether he has the children with F Hawke or adopts with M Hawke. He wants a family imo. But... the dialogue in the game, the way it is delivered sounds like Hawke is coming second in some ways.

Saying he finally gives in is kind of like saying he gives up, Ren, imo.

Reading your reasoning, I still think Moto's response is the most appropriate. I also think you are victim to a shortcoming of the dialogue and cinematic system at that point. There are times when no matter how you reply the NPC (whoever it might be), will always have the same response because all paths lead to the same road, so to speak. So, I think in this case you are taking the Hangedman scene, and the following conversation with him a little too much at face value.

Nilfalasiel wrote...

Remember what he says after the Justice quest, when you come see him "you are the most important thing in my life, but some things are more important than my life".

Wow... damn I've read some good stuff about Anders these past couple of days that (despite my severe issues with him) really make me want to do another romance. My very first play was LI Anders, but partly because I knew him as a character from DAA, and also because it just happened to work out that way and I just went with it.

Of course... that means I can't romance Fenris...

[Ghost_Nappa]

I'll leave this here as my last post as a goodbye since....theres no expansion with closure on my fenbear!

Modifié par Ghost_Nappa, 01 avril 2012 - 04:01 .

[coldwetn0se]

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

I'll leave this here as my last post as a goodbye since....theres no expansion with closure on my fenbear!

Nice find!  Awww, come on, stay at least until thread page 2000.........

[aldien]

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

I'll leave this here as my last post as a goodbye since....theres no expansion with closure on my fenbear!

Ghost NOOOOOOOOOOO! You can't leave! Come on at least until 2,000... even if it is just pic spam. I know you have a lot of projects on, but just pop in and say hi. Actually, at this point I'd say you could talk about anything on this thread. Besides, I was going to ask you what it would be like to have Fenris in ME3... Come back or else I'll kill him off in my next chapter and let Mr. Burger King take over Kirkwall, actually all of Thedas and I'll turn Hawke and companions into Darkspawn and then I'll bring your characters into my story and do naughty horrible things to them!!! Come baaaaaaaaaaaack.:crying: And I want to be the fish even if does look violated.

Modifié par aldien, 01 avril 2012 - 12:52 .

[Ghost_Nappa]

Ladies if you will...look at the date and time.

Just be forewarned...atleast my april fool's wasnt like Adult swims....For one glorious night I relived my grade school years watching Tom(Voiced by steve blum) give a Mass Effect 3 review and air Outlaw Star!
Ahhhhhh memories....still shame Adultswim for playing my emotions like that.

Now to stay on topic. Poof!

[coldwetn0se]

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

Ladies if you will...look at the date and time.

Just be forewarned...atleast my april fool's wasnt like Adult swims....For one glorious night I relived my grade school years watching Tom(Voiced by steve blum) give a Mass Effect 3 review and air Outlaw Star!
Ahhhhhh memories....still shame Adultswim for playing my emotions like that.

Now to stay on topic. Poof!

AGGHHH!  Damn time zones!!  It was still March 31st when I posted, so yeah........didn't even occur to me to check your time stamp!  Kudos!  Well played

[CuriousArtemis]

 HAHAHA Very well played, Ghost!
ADORABLE FenHawke art is ADORABLE.
I've got some more adorable art:

by dolomedes

I confess I like the cute stuff the best <3 Boy or Girl Hawke.  I love it when they're just squishing each other or laughing or having a good time together.

[aldien]

Ghost, I am going to spank you. :devil:

[coldwetn0se]

@motomoto - too cute....<squish>

Hey, question for all/anybody:
Even with as many times as I have played MotA, I have NEVER gotten the 'Fenris questioning Talis' about the Qun.....I think he speaks Qunari to her, and she makes fun of his accent or something?? I really want this bit of content. I wonder what triggers (if any) help. Is there something in one of the dialogue I should choose, or avoid choosing?

Thanks for any assistance.

[Dutchess]

I've had it on my first play through. I think it happens after you have chosen to help Tallis and exit the cave. When you are walking outside again, Fenris should test her, to find out whether she is truly a Qunari, as she claims.

[CuriousArtemis]

renjility wrote...

I've had it on my first play through. I think it happens after you have chosen to help Tallis and exit the cave. When you are walking outside again, Fenris should test her, to find out whether she is truly a Qunari, as she claims.

Must be totally random, because the one and only time I helped Tallis, the first dialogue out of the cave was the romance one between Hawke and Fenris.

[Dutchess]

Could be. That character had not romanced Fenris, so that might influence it as well.

[coldwetn0se]

motomotogirl wrote...

renjility wrote...

I've had it on my first play through. I think it happens after you have chosen to help Tallis and exit the cave. When you are walking outside again, Fenris should test her, to find out whether she is truly a Qunari, as she claims.

Must be totally random, because the one and only time I helped Tallis, the first dialogue out of the cave was the romance one between Hawke and Fenris.

Timing of it must be random, but maybe there is still a trigger to get it.  When I help Talis (about 50% of the time.....WTH, doesn't matter in the end anyway....HA!), I usually either get the romance banter "You frightened me...", or the 'I can't believe we are helping her'.  (don't remember how the dialogue actually goes.)

I wonder if you act suspicious of her from the start, and take a more aggro or diplo/aggro approach with her, he will eventually say it.  Since I love getting the romance banter, if I know I am going end up aiding her, I flirt with her a bit.....so bad!  So very bad making Fenris all jealous.....

[nightscrawl]

motomotogirl wrote...

 HAHAHA Very well played, Ghost!
ADORABLE FenHawke art is ADORABLE.
I've got some more adorable art:

<snip>

by dolomedes

I confess I like the cute stuff the best <3 Boy or Girl Hawke.  I love it when they're just squishing each other or laughing or having a good time together.

Wow, that really IS adorable . Somehow, I don't think Fenris would appreciate all this adorablness at his expense... hehe.

Btw, I think sarcastic manHawke + rivalmance Fenris is a great combo because Hawke is all "y u so serious?" It's really quite funny that (what is probably a failing of the dialogue system) makes it seem like all of the companions listen to the sarcastic comments without reply because they just accept that Hawke is sometimes an idiot. But I've gotta stick with my girls for friendmance, he just needs a hug =/.

coldwetn0se wrote...

Hey, question for all/anybody:
Even with as many times as I have played MotA, I have NEVER gotten the 'Fenris questioning Talis' about the Qun... I think he speaks Qunari to her, and she makes fun of his accent or something?? I really want this bit of content. I wonder what triggers (if any) help. Is there something in one of the dialogue I should choose, or avoid choosing?

Thanks for any assistance.

I've played MotA three times now, all in Act 3 after Fenris romance finalized. I got this dialogue on the first play, but not in the subsequent two.

Also, in my recent Legacy play, I managed to miss the firing of the romance dialogue in that one somehow, which was really irriating as that was half the reason for my playing it again after the recent patch. Grr...

Modifié par nightscrawl, 02 avril 2012 - 09:28 .

[gingergen]

aldien wrote...

My second question that I've always wanted to ask:

Do you think Fenris asked Hawke for forgiveness because he was afraid he would end up alone?

As a friend of mine used to say: "OoooOOOOooooh."
IMO it's totally possible. I don't even thing it's a bad thing, necessarily. Part of his growth arc is going from someone who doesn't trust people or want them close to him, to someone who has made friends and developed trust (even if you don't romance him -- I'm thinking of the fact that he invites Donnic over for games and stuff). Acknowledging that he wants Hawke to stay and trying to figure out what he needs to do to make that happen is growth, even if his motivations are somewhat selfish.

Re: the Varania question -- I know I'm late to this but here are my $.02 anyway. I totally started out letting him kill her, because it was HIS decision as a free elf and I didn't want Hawke to get in the way of that. But I've changed my mind over time. If you have a friend that you care about who you KNOW is making a bad decision, it's your job as a friend to say something. It's not the same thing as, say, ordering Anders/Justice to step down when he's about to kill that mage girl. The motivations are similar but the way it's done is different. I think the balance of power between Hawke and Fenris is a delicate thing, but I think he'd be happier in the long run (after his temper has passed) knowing he hadn't killed his sister.

OTOH, my first playthrough was with Fenris as a rival sans romance, and that's when I didn't stop him. I think that was probably the right call for that scenario, and probably how I'd play it if I ever played that way again.

[gingergen]

Kavatica wrote...

I think you are pretty much right about that. Hawke is really cursed in this game. I think Hawke comes in second no matter who his/her LI is. Each companion has so much baggage that they are dealing with, and things that take priority over their relationship with Hawke, at least until the very end. I think the only companion who really cares about Hawke for Hawke is Varric. And we all know there's no romance there.

I actually quite agree with this. Poor Hawke.
And that's not a judgement on any of those characters -- it's just that all the LI have crazy baggage, y0. (Except maybe Isabela? I haven't romaced her yet.) Also with all the upheaval in the world at that time, romance in general does sometimes have to take a back seat. Hawke's LI has to be put aside for what's going on for her sometimes too.  (And THAT makes me think of Alistair in Origins, as well -- a sweeter LI there could not be, yet there's LOADS of world issues that can get in the way of that relationship.)

Also, renjility -- I meant to add earlier, I really agree with what you said a few pages back about Varania's motivations.

Modifié par gingergen, 02 avril 2012 - 05:03 .

[coldwetn0se]

nightscrawl wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

 HAHAHA Very well played, Ghost!
ADORABLE FenHawke art is ADORABLE.
I've got some more adorable art:

<snip>

by dolomedes

I confess I like the cute stuff the best <3 Boy or Girl Hawke.  I love it when they're just squishing each other or laughing or having a good time together.

Wow, that really IS adorable . Somehow, I don't think Fenris would appreciate all this adorablness at his expense... hehe.

Btw, I think sarcastic manHawke + rivalmance Fenris is a great combo because Hawke is all "y u so serious?" It's really quite funny that (what is probably a failing of the dialogue system) makes it seem like all of the companions listen to the sarcastic comments without reply because they just accept that Hawke is sometimes an idiot. But I've gotta stick with my girls for friendmance, he just needs a hug =/.

coldwetn0se wrote...

Hey, question for all/anybody:
Even with as many times as I have played MotA, I have NEVER gotten the 'Fenris questioning Talis' about the Qun... I think he speaks Qunari to her, and she makes fun of his accent or something?? I really want this bit of content. I wonder what triggers (if any) help. Is there something in one of the dialogue I should choose, or avoid choosing?

Thanks for any assistance.

I've played MotA three times now, all in Act 3 after Fenris romance finalized. I got this dialogue on the first play, but not in the subsequent two.

Also, in my recent Legacy play, I managed to miss the firing of the romance dialogue in that one somehow, which was really irriating as that was half the reason for my playing it again after the recent patch. Grr...

Well, I may go back through with some old saves, and see if I can get it to trigger........I have one hawke getting near the end of Act 2 (always do MotA in Act 3), but I'm a bit impatient.  Besides it might be easier to change things up knowing what I did previously with that old save......If I figure anything out, I'll give a post.

As for Legacy banter......I too have had problems in the past getting certain banter to fire (even with other companions BEFORE the patch that fixed Fenris').  So, I have a habit now of using one trigger point, and abusing the hell out of it!
I ususally pick the walkway right below the area outside of the prison, where you have to fight two Brontos and a ***t load of Carta.  I just walk back and forth till I exhaust all the dialogue. 

[dangereusegirl]

I love how I reblog that pic of Fenris in the water on my tumblr, and then I come on here and find it

I spent the past hour on tumblr reblogging things in the fenris tag. And now I want to play DA2 again T__T Haven't even finished my City or Dalish elf runthroughs and I want back at Fenris.

Sigh.

The daily struggles of a Fenris fangirl

[Sylvan_Moon]

About the Varania thing, I've been mulling over it and you guys are right. Letting him kill her is more like a snap decision at the heat of the moment rather than real evil on her part. (I can't really believe I got so hung up on this choice.) And it's not really something Fenris can undo and will probably regret it over time. Maybe he just *needs* someone to tell him to stop at that point.

About the Tallis/Fenris banter, I think I got that one. What I didn't get (and was very irritated about it) was the romance line when he said "You frightened me.." I actually did a few reloads from the point all four of them got back together. Still couldn't get it. I wasn't sure what I was doing wrong.

My favorite romance line is still from MoTA when he thanks Hawke from bringing him along in an endearingly awkward manner. Varric was in my party then and he said "Smooth.."