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[Dutchess]

When you play a Dalish elf in DAO, you can talk to an ex city elf who has sought out, and found, the Dalish (when you play a city elf, you also get a reference to one of them having left for the Dalish). He has been welcomed among their midst and was being taught archery. When you do the Nature of the Beast quest and meet another Dalish clan, you can talk to the Keeper's First, an ex city elf who has been prisoner of a group of bandits before the Dalish killed the bandits and freed her (the bandits had killed a clan member). She says she had to be excellent at everything and work hard to become the Keeper's apprentice while she was not of "the old blood", but nevertheless are these two elves examples of the Dalish welcoming other elves when they want to live according to the old ways again.

Fear of the unknown is probably a big factor for other city elves to not join the Dalish. As I said previously, there are a lot of wild tales about the Dalish being murderers, criminals, and sacrifice their children in some odd ritual or things like that. A city elf who has lived in the alienage his entire life will never have met a Dalish, and so he will quickly believe those stories and not risk going to them.
On top of that, it's not easy to find a Dalish clan. They travel from place to place and often keep their distance from human villages because their presence quickly causes unrest.

Edit: ToP again. I swear I am not doing it on purpose.:innocent:

Checked my deviant art messages, and here ya go:


Breogan  (duh)

Modifié par renjility, 24 mai 2012 - 03:35 .

[Ghost_Nappa]

Ooooh a touchy subject with the alienage and dalish....oh lordy I'll sum it up as living on a reservation with generations of fmilies living that way, then finding out their free cousins are romaing the wanderers lifestyle and getting rumors about how their city cousins bend over backwards to their human lords. Not only is it a clash of social understanding but living wise, it take some odd long years to get them used to being Dalish.
Hell Pol in dAO shows up in Merrill's clan after running away from the alienage because he hates the way they are treated, but his brother brings it up as he'll mostly die int he woods. But instead he's accept and trained.

Im not a huge elf fantasy fan, becaue of all that high fantasy crap making them beautiful, but the DA verse struck a cord with me in funding the elves plights.

But bak to Fenris..I think he's in this weird qausi-state, where he was treated below the level of ****, gets free and find people who are only meeting halfway with their freedom without questioning it or living as nomads thinking themselves as the true elves not giving a damn about their city counterparts to save them....I hope He atleast pulls a Harriet tubman and let his people go cause the mage templar war I don't care about....Hell let he mages help the elves. (im out before I pass out)

[Sialater]

Aren't some city elves Andrastians, too? I mean, that was a Chantry priest marrying Tabris off, after all.

So, they could also just not want to leave for religious reasons and believe the crap the Chantry spews about the Dalish.

[aldien]

dracuella wrote...

renjility wrote...

aldien wrote...
Fenris is a proud man, and thus he is not interested in people who don't try to make the best out of their lifes
But is he really making the best out of his from Act 1 to 2?

You could say he isn't, no, but that's not completely fair. Keep in mind he is not truly free at that time. Danarius is still out there, possibly sending more armies of slavers after him. He doesn't have the chance to move forward while his past is trying to catch up with him and drag him back. That's the sad thing, and that is also (I think) an important reason why the romance with Fenris has such a rough start. He can't live the life he wants to yet. He still has to hide, look over his shoulder, live like a ghost. He is still fighting for his freedom at the time. 

As Aldien said, perhaps he hasn't made the best of his own life yet but it seems he's struggling to get there. I'm on the same page as renji here, In act I+II he's constantly been on the run from Danarius and to me it seems as if he's come to the conclusion that in order to really get the most out of his life, he has to end Danarius'. So before that happens, he cannot be the best he can, in a sense. 

So yeah, I think pride is a big thing for Fenris. Perhaps because of all that he has lost, it is one of the few things he can still claim as his own.  

I don't know if he despises the elves in the Alienage. I think he does, as Renji said, to some extent think they're wasting their lives but the following conversation made me think he also pities them:

Merrill: You never come to the alienage, Fenris.
Fenris: I don't live in the alienage.
Merrill: Don't you care about the plight of our people? Not even a little bit?
Fenris: I don't need to visit the alienage to know what they suffer. I know it better than you.
Merrill: I've lived there for years! I see it firsthand!
Fenris: And I lived it.

I've often wondered if they could simply up and return to the Dalish and whether they would be welcomed back. Some of Merrils responses make me believe that they would (for instance when Fenris talks about being a slave in Tevinter, she says why they didn't just run away, the Dalish would have helped them. But since we never really hear about elves going back, it makes me wonder.
And if they could, why don't they then? Is it perhaps the idea of living in the wilderness with all it's uncertainty that makes them stay in the relative safety that is an Alienage? 

Edit: stupid colours

Very Christmasy It's terrible red and green always conjure that image.


It's so odd that it took Danarius years to come back for Fenris. Often, I thought it would have been interesting if Danarius had come sooner and either Hawke had to rescue Fenris or Fenris had a longer avenue of time to come to terms with his freedom.

So
Fenris was living in some sort of hellish limbo with his freedom
dangling in front of him for... 9 years? The thing about Fenris is that he is logical and thoughtful so it surprising that he decided to try for something with Hawke before confronting Danarius, although when Fenris says: I just wanted to be happy for a little while, it makes me wonder if he had the intention to committ. Just a thought.


So yeah, I think pride is a big thing for Fenris. Perhaps because of
all that he has lost, it is one of the few things he can still claim as
his own. 

Very very true. And his sword

I've often wondered if they could simply up and return to the Dalish
and whether they would be welcomed back. Some of Merrils responses make
me believe that they would (for instance when Fenris talks about being a
slave in Tevinter, she says why they didn't just run away, the Dalish
would have helped them. But since we never really hear about elves going
back, it makes me wonder.

I wonder if some clans are more welcoming than others. I remember when Fenris first met the Dalish in DA2. They did not think much of him because he was a city elf. But... maybe that was just them. Merrill could have spent some  time educating the Kirkwall elves about the Dalish, though being a blood mage she wasn't a great example.

You would think the wilderness would be a better option than the cramped living conditions, racists and disease in the alienage.

[aldien]

Sialater wrote...

Aren't some city elves Andrastians, too? I mean, that was a Chantry priest marrying Tabris off, after all.

So, they could also just not want to leave for religious reasons and believe the crap the Chantry spews about the Dalish.

According to Sebastian, yes some are. Just hated how he was trying to convert Fenris. It always felt like Sebastian was complimenting Fenris in the hopes it would convince him to go to Starkhaven and train his men. Maybe it's just me but it some how felt false like he was aware that Fenris could possibly be swayed by a compliment, especially since he hasn't had many his entire life. Okay, sorry off on tangent there.

Modifié par aldien, 24 mai 2012 - 04:50 .

[coldwetn0se]

@Trista - I am of the same mind with Merrill. I think she is well written, and I know peoples arguements about why she does the things she does, but.......>.<

Now having said that, it does make her one of those companions that works really well with the friendship/rivalry system. Her character dynamic can really reflect whether you have Rivalled her or Friended her. And for her as a fighter; it took me a while to find a build that worked with her (since I NEVER let her use blood magic......I'm silly that way). But the other half of her Specialization Tree actually works really well. Ensare is possibly one of my favorite talents, and I always have her special sustainable on (forgetting the damn name of it....bah!). I max her out on the Spirit tree quickly, and max out at least one other tree (Elemental or Primal) and with descent tactics (and me occasionally micromanaging, which I like to do anyway) she can be quite the powerhouse.

HAHA! It seems lately that all of my posts end up being about other characters and NOT Fenris! Poor Fen.....trust me my broody Elf, I luv ya!!

**And to those that have been good at staying on topic; interesting ideas about Fenris' attitude to City Elves.**

[Dutchess]

Hello lurker.

Your post is not intrusive at all. New points are always welcome in a discussion!

I did not mean to suggest city elves are just weak whiners. I described more what I considered to be Fenris' point of view. I agree they really don't have much of an alternative, and I know "going to the Dalish" is not as easy as it might seem.

I forgot about that codex entry. I did read them all on two playthroughs, but I can't remember them all I'm afraid.

[ladyshamen]

Sorry for an off topic question, but it's been a while since I've played DA2 to the end. I'm at the beginning of Act 2, and I can't remember if there is anything special I need to do to get Fenris to ' kiss and make up ' in Act 3. Fenris can be so touchy, but well worth it!

[Dutchess]

The safest thing is to only flirt with Fenris, I think. If you do want to flirt with others, don't do it after you have slept with Fenris, because other romances will override his. Apart from that, it's just the obvious. Get his friendship/rivalry high enough, do his Questioning Beliefs and travel to a place outside of Kirkwall to trigger Bitter Pill (becomes available after completing Black Powder curtosy).
Do his Alone quest in act 3, get his relationship to 100%, and there you go.
Have fun and good luck!

[ladyshamen]

Then I should be fine! Thanks for the answer:)

[aldien]

Faerunner wrote...

Hi, long-time lurker. Huge fan of Fenris and Thedas elves. Decided to join in when the conversation switched to Fenris and elves. Please pardon the intrusion.

renjility wrote...

No... worse, because the whole point is those elves are not locked up. They live there voluntarily, complain about it, but don't do anything to actually change their fate. They didn't have to do anything to be free, they were born free, and he feels like they waste it.

Do you think it's possible that city elves are "slaves" in their own way?

Going with the theme of "slaves don't know any other way of life, so they can't seek it out" that shows up often in the game (whenever Fenris talks about his former life, when you meet Orana and so on) do you think it's possible that city elves have been largely conditioned to truly believe there's nothing more for them? That they probably collectively think, "We've always lived with racism and poverty, there's no way to escape it except death, so we might as well just accept it"?

I would have liked it if the game explored these themes a little more. I would have liked it if an elven protagonist started out getting grief from Fenris for supposedly being like one of the elves he despises (the "dirt-grubbing" Dalish or one the Alienage elves that squander their freedom on poverty) and then had to earn his respect and possibly help him see the plight of elves a little differently over the course of the game. (Merrill certainly got nowhere with him, or him with her.)

Much like how Hawke can call him out on hating slavery but being all right with imprisoning mages, an elven protagonist could point out that many city elves don't know anything else besides prejudice and poverty the same way slaves don't know anything else besides slavery, they don't have the same fighting skills as he does and so they can't defend themselves from bigotted humans like him if they were to rebel, or even point out that he isn't exactly making the most of his freedom either, so why turn up his nose at the way their people choose to live? (That run-down mansion he refuses to leave even after Denarius is killed, mmm... Actually, come to think of it, how's that any different from the run-down alienage that many city elves refuse to leave?)

Or maybe I give city elves too much credit. I don't know, I still think it would be interesting.

They don't have to, as far as I know, but it is true most don't have much other options dus to the racism in Thedas. Of course an alternative is always going to the Dalish, so they have at least that choice, but there are many negative rumors about the Dalish, even among the City Elves, so it is a bit of a gamble for them to seek out the Dalish.

Honestly? I think it's a little more than "a bit of a gamble," respectfully. Don't forget that the Dalish keep themselves extremely well-hidden from humans, which also means they're very well-hidden from city elves. Travel is dangerous for elves since they're such easy targets for bandits and highwaymen, and the forests would be dangerous to navigate or survive in since city elves were raised in, well, cities. I think that they would far more likely get hopelessly lost, hungry, or killed long before they stumble across the Dalish clan.

I'm very sorry, but I just don't think that "just run to the Dalish" is a very reliable or fair alternative to human life for most city elves because I think most city elves never even reach the Dalish. At best, they return home embarrassed and hungry. At worst, they wind up dead in a ditch somewhere.

I imagine it also depends on the location they live. It seems likely the larger cities like Denerim and Kirkwall have an alienage with many elves packed upon each other, but they could also move to the countryside, I suppose. Circumstances may be better there.

They're not. I've read the codex entries on the subject. Elves that live in the country have to work as farmhands for humans, and they have to sleep in toolsheds and barns so the local humans don't have to be bothered with them. (Like in Lothering, if Aveline is to be believed... times like that makes me wish the protagonist could be an elf.) As for making their own homes, well...

The DAO codex on Alienage Culture says: "But don't be so anxious to start tearing down the walls [of the alienage] or picking fights with the guards. They keep out more than they keep in. We don't have to live here, you know. Sometimes a family gets a good break, and they buy a house in the docks, or the outskirts of town. If they're lucky, they come back to the alienage after the looters have burned their house down. The unlucky ones just go to the paupers' field."

Sorry for the long and intrusive post, I just think city elves have fewer reliable options than people (Fenris) give them credit for.

Ren admit it. You get the top post on purpose.

This was a fascinating read. I'm giving my two cents even though I know it is a hypothetical.

do you think it's possible that city elves have been largely
conditioned to truly believe there's nothing more for them? That they
probably collectively think, "We've always lived with racism and
poverty, there's no way to escape it except death, so we might as well
just accept it"?

I think it depends on the elf. Some have hopefully received an education, perhaps travelled, even if it is from one city to another, which would allow them to see a different aspect of life and the world outside of their 'condition'.  I remember when Merrill spoke of Pol being worldy living both in the city and with the Dalish. So, some obviously are able to see outside of alienage life.

I would have liked it if the game explored these themes a little more. I
would have liked it if an elven protagonist started out getting grief
from Fenris for supposedly being like one of the elves he despises (the
"dirt-grubbing" Dalish or one the Alienage elves that squander their
freedom on poverty) and then had to earn his respect and possibly help
him see the plight of elves a little differently over the course of the
game. (Merrill certainly got nowhere with him, or him with her.)

In my opinion the elves are more interesting than the mage/templar conflict. It would have been wonderful if the game had explored their culture and circumstances more.

I think that Fenris couldn't see past Merrill's blood magic and Merrill spoke to him about the plight of elves as if he had no clue how much hardship their people suffered. But, to be fair, I think Fenris and Merrill mirror each other. They are both living in the past.

Much like how Hawke can call him out on hating slavery but being all
right with imprisoning mages, an elven protagonist could point out that
many city elves don't know anything else besides prejudice and poverty
the same way slaves don't know anything else besides slavery, they don't
have the same fighting skills as he does and so they can't defend
themselves from bigotted humans like him if they were to rebel, or even
point out that he isn't exactly making the most of his freedom either,
so why turn up his nose at the way their people choose to live? (That
run-down mansion he refuses to leave even after Denarius is killed,
mmm... Actually, come to think of it, how's that any different from the
run-down alienage that many city elves refuse to leave?)

I get what you are saying and it is a good parallel and it would be fascinating to see Fenris challenged on that level.

The city elves do to an extrent have the ability to change their circumstance. Leah joins the city guard. She learns to fight, and I am going to assume that her standard of living increases. There are options for city elves. They may be few and far between, but they can at least try and make things better for themselves. Slaves on the other hand I can imagine spend their days locked in a cell when they aren't either cleaning or being used for blood sacrifices. Obviously some of them see past slavery and try to rebel, but it does seem like night and day between city elves and slaves in many respects.

To be fair to city elves, Fenris, in my opinion, has a hard time empathising with anyone who has not been a slave, which is understandable to some degree. No elf really has it great in Thedas :/

Modifié par aldien, 24 mai 2012 - 07:18 .

[MissRedZelda]

I'm guessing he may find out on DA3. Maker knows how he'll react.

[aldien]

***********Sorry for the length of the post.***********

Don't ask me why this was all in bold to begin with. BSN doesn't like it when a post doesn't have Fenris and sexy in the same sentence.  Faerunner , they are going to say you and I need to go get a room after this post. But, oh well. It is a discussion thread after all.


Faerunner  said:
guess what I mean is that elves are still largely second-class
citizens no matter where they go in human lands. Whether they live in a
city alienage or a country toolshed, they still face discrimination and
poverty from just about every human they come across. Whenever they try
to improve their lot, or hear of someone who tried to improve their lot,
it always ends badly (from historical cases like the Exalted March
against the Dales or a recent case like the odd neighbour that tried to
buy a house in the docks getting lynched). This can be very
discrouraging, and lead them to feel that they'll always be second rate
no matter what they do, so don't even bother trying to change it. The
only way out is death or joining the Dalish (which city elves that don't
know any better might see as being just as bad or a waste of time) so
might as well make the most of what they have and not try to climb
higher.

aldien said:

I completely agree. I think the thing I was trying to relay was that even within the ranks of a second-class citizen there are subclasses. Prostitute elf, dock working elf, maidservant elf, merchant elf, but at the end of all these rungs is slave. So, someone like Fenris, in my opinion, cannot comprehend second-class. To him, and this is just an opinion, second-class seems privaledged, even though if you look at elves as a whole people would say they are all oppressed. I can see Fenris taking offense at everyone getting lumped together. They all have it bad, but Fenris would turn around and say: some of us had it worse. Sorry, off on tanget.

Faerunner  said: Whenever they try to improve their lot, or hear of someone who tried to improve their lot, it always ends badly

aldien said: Oh and then we have the rise of Elven superstitions, ignorance, social generated fear, and like you said, if I may: 

Faerunner  said: Whenever they try to improve their lot, or hear of someone who tried to
improve their lot, it always ends badly (from historical cases like the
Exalted March against the Dales or a recent case like the odd neighbour
that tried to buy a house in the docks getting lynched). This can be
very discrouraging, and lead them to feel that they'll always be
second rate no matter what they do, so don't even bother trying to
change it. The only way out is death or joining the Dalish (which city
elves that don't know any better might see as being just as bad or a
waste of time) so might as well make the most of what they have and not
try to climb higher.

Though I think you are right. This clearly doesn't apply to all elves,
and many do still try regardless of the odds. But I think on a large
scale, when you look at the large groups city elves that would rather
stay in the alienages and/or accept whatever piece-of-dirt jobs the
humans give them, I think it's sprung more from a mentality that
they can't imagine acheieving a life where they aren't descriminated
against or empoverished, so they don't really dream of trying to change
it on large scale. I don't know.

aldien said: Doesn't that just scream: 'it's always served us well.' Ahhhhh I know that mentality all too well. It's infuriating because the elves have such a rich history in Thedas. Sometimes, I wish the game had been reversed, where the elves ruled Tevinter and it was envied by humans.


Faerunner  said: I feel like the devs left a whole other dimension out of the game by
focusing on mages versus templars and leaving the elves versus humans
conflict on the backburner. I mean, only humans can be templars and
elves have a greater effinity for magic, and humans discriminate against
elves all the time. I think that alone would have added a whole new
layer to the conflict. Or if elves started rebelling against humans
around the same time the mages were rebelling against the templars;
imagine how much more of an interesting and complicated mess that would
be! (Not just a boring and simple mess.)


aldien said: The focus became narrow in my opinion. Ideally, I would liked to have seen the story change depending on which race you selected, if we had been given a choice to choose our race.

Faerunner  said: I mean, only humans can be templars

aldien said: Interesting you say that, because I have seen time and time again people discussung the possibility of Fenris becoming a templar.

The Elven dynamic would have been an intriguing addition to the scenario. Mages vs. templars is too clear cut in many respects. There's not enough ambiguity there. But, you add in an oppressed society that can claim ancestral rites to the land and throw blame on all humans as oppressors then you have something complicated and interesting. I'd like to see Fenris and Merrill wrestle with that added complication.


Faerunner  said: However, I still can't help but maintain that each group is largely
conditioned by their respective enviornments to accept their fate. They
are under the thumb of humans and nothing they do can truly change
that. If elven slaves try to rebel, they get cut down. If city elves try
to rebel, they get purged. They can try to run away, but this can
result in capture (for slaves), robbery, murder, or being lost with no
way of knowing how to provide for themselves.

aldien said: Very true. But I would argue: who isn't conditioned by their envinronment? Same could be said for noble human versus peasant human. Hawke rose above that, but being human gave him/her the advantage.  This is the only time that I see one of Anders arguments holding some weight,  that being that elves should join with the mages because they have suffered too... to an extent. He's got a point because there is a good parallell between the condition of mages and elves, which I'm sure drives Fenris batty if he admits it. 

Faerunner  said: A slave that does a good job can gain a bit of comfort in their
kept lives, while a city elf that manages to find a good job can gain a
bit of comfort for their lives, but both depend on the good will of the
humans in their lives to provide it, and both depend on luck to find
such a master (for slaves) or employer (for city elves), since humans
that are kind and fair to elves are extremely hard to come by.
Though I agree that slaves don't get to choose their masters while city
elves do get to choose their employers, and that alone is a huge
difference. I don't know.

aldien said: Funny thing is... all I can think is that magisters are way less compassionate than a regular human. I'm not sure I see magisters having an ounce of humanity left in their bones. Probably too influenced by Fenris. But he may have point about making deals with demons. Do they sap out humanity? Okay... major tanget there. Point being, that most humans who have not been exposed to the corrupt nature of the Imperium will generally have more sympathy even if they utlimately hold the power. But I do wholeheartedly agree with your assessment.

Yes, the city elves can always choose to walk away. I am not saying by any means that it makes it better. It's like weighing out the greater of two evils.

Faerunner  said:  Heh, I don't know why, but I just thought of something terrible.

Given his
extreme pity for slaves and disdain for elves that don't use their
freedom the way he likes, I honestly wonder how Fenris would react if he
learned that the majority of elven slaves are there because they're
descended from people that chose slavery over freedom? Andraste freed
the slaves (or at least those that chose to escape and fight under her),
and the elves were provided the Dales where they were to walk to it. (A
la Exodus from Egypt.)

Quoth the Codex entry: The Long Walk:
"Along the way, a growing number [of elves] began to bemoan the decision
to leave Tevinter. 'At least in Tevinter,' they said, 'we had food, and
water, and shelter. What do we have here? Nothing but the open sky and
the prospect of the never-ending road ahead.' Some turned back toward Tevinter. But most of us continued walking."

I honestly sympathize with elves of all walks of life (just look at what
happened to those that kept walking), but considerig that Fenris is
likely descended from the type of people he doesn't respect, I think he
would break if someone told him this. xD

(I'm sorry, I'm in a fit of dark humour right now. Forgive me.)

aldien said: Oh! I never knew that! Wow, that really puts a spin on things. Is that somewhat common knowledge? Fenris seems to know quite a bit about Andraste. But he never mentioned that Selective memory???? Hehehehe.

That would kill him. Honestly, I think the poor man would crawl under a rock and die. But! That being said, he learned that he was the one who fought for the lyrium markings and accepted it in the end. So, I think he would come to terms with that and hopefully decide that he is just Fenris.

I'm so glad you decided to delurk!!!! This is a fascinating conversation.

Modifié par aldien, 25 mai 2012 - 01:27 .

[MissRedZelda]

I've read the series; they're better than Twilight, at any rate.

I think Fenris might have been about 15 or 16 when he got the markings. We don't know how long He served Dinarius for. Five years maybe? Making him about 20-21 when he escaped, plus the three years he was on the run, so he may have been about 23-24 when he met Hawke. Who I'm guessing was about 20-21 at the start of the game (giving the fact that Bethany and Carver are 18) at the very beginning.

Just my guess. The fact that he thought competing for the lyrium marking as a ticket to freedom for him family kinda suggests naive idealism. Something people as young as that seem to possess. (I know I did at that age).

[dracuella]

Faerunner wrote...

I don't necessarily think that all magisters are uniformly cruel to their slaves. Fenris often mentions how magisters view slaves as little more than property, but then some people take better care of their property than others. Some sadists like Denarius might enjoy beating and torturing their slaves on a regular basis, while others might reserve only some for hurt while others are left alone, or still others might decide their slaves are more worthwhile healthy and productive instead of constantly beating and blowing through them like tissue paper. 

This is my take on it, too. I cannot believe most slave owners would be cruel to their slaves because quite frankly, slaves are valuable property to them. They acquired them for a reason and for them to perform that task well, they need to be in working order, so to speak. Calculating? Perhaps but we're talking about people who own other people *brrr*. This does not mean it's a good life in any way, it simply means that beatings and torture of the amounts Fenris was exposed to have to be rare and only, as Faerunner says, by sadists like Danarius. 
I may be coloured by the amount of material on slavery in the Caribbean I was made to read by my history teacher, where it was very clear that while they were not free, most slaves were treated well for the reasons mentioned above. It was an investment that had to be protected

[berelinde]

Another point is that Fenris is relating his own experience. Which makes sense, really, since it's the only one he has, but he is not an unbiased or well-informed observer. He does not remember his own past in its entirety, nor has he been exposed to how the "other half" lives, e.g. free-born commoners.

Even in cultures where slavery is legal, not every free-born person owns slaves. Most are probably artisans, commodity traders (flour, iron, what have you), farmers, soldiers, sailors, etc. and go about their lives much as they would if they lived in Ferelden. That isn't to say that slavery is okay because a large chunk of the population isn't involved in it, nor does it demonstrate that magister rule is ideal, but probability says that society as a whole does function. Probably not as well as it would if every person was free, but it might not be the hell-on-earth that Fenris describes.

[Sialater]

MissRedZelda wrote...

I've read the series; they're better than Twilight, at any rate.

I think Fenris might have been about 15 or 16 when he got the markings. We don't know how long He served Dinarius for. Five years maybe? Making him about 20-21 when he escaped, plus the three years he was on the run, so he may have been about 23-24 when he met Hawke. Who I'm guessing was about 20-21 at the start of the game (giving the fact that Bethany and Carver are 18) at the very beginning.

Just my guess. The fact that he thought competing for the lyrium marking as a ticket to freedom for him family kinda suggests naive idealism. Something people as young as that seem to possess. (I know I did at that age).

In Legacy, you find out Hawke's about 25, IIRC.

Modifié par Sialater, 25 mai 2012 - 05:49 .