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[CuriousArtemis]

Is Karl tossing aside the mark of Tranquility? xDDD

Wait, that makes me kind of sad ;_;

Modifié par motomotogirl, 08 juin 2012 - 10:05 .

[aldien]

Faerunner wrote...

Aimo's art and comics are amazing!

@aldien To be honest, I see Fenris more as Heathcliffe since Mr. Darcy was a spoiled rich snob that needed to learn to stop turning up his nose at people he considered beneath him while Heathcliffe was a poor boy that got revenge on the spoiled rich snobs that made his life a living hell. They're all brooding Byronic Heroes though, and Mr. Darcy and Heathcliffe are from around the same time period, so I agree that a period coat on Fenris would look amazing!

At first I was a little surprised by Fenris' blunt and direct relationship with Isabela too, but when you think about it, Fenris is a very blunt and direct person too. He seems to only become sentimental and romantic when pushed into it. His first night with Hawke is a great example of that. (Hawke: "Was it that bad?" Fenris: "No... it was fine." Hawke: *glares* Fenris: *awkwardly* "That is... insufficient." *slowly and methodically* "It better than anything I could have dreamed.")

With Hawke, Fenris pushes himself to be flowery and romantic because there's a lot at stake emotionally and he doesn't want to chase away the person he loves. (Well, then he leaves for three years, but he makes up for lost time when he comes back.) With Isabela, there's no need to be flowery or romantic because they both want the same thing and she's going to put out whether he courts her or not, so might as well dispense with the needless wooing and just get to the good stuff. (And anyway, Isabela is pretty blunt in her own way too. "What about the sex?!" Indeed! XD)

This is all in my opinon. I'm not stating it as gospel by any means They may give ME hell for this Muwhahahaha. I love it.

For me, it was more about the romanticism that surrounds regency fashion as opposed to true characterization. (I was being a ******) But! In this case, I am pushed to be honest:  I agree with you.

Fenris is finding his feet when it comes to Hawke. The man has never known a relationship on his terms. It has, in my opinion, always been about sex; the act. There was no true (ha!) love on his part when it came to Danarius, or, if it is your thing, Hadrianna. Even if Fenris believed or became convinced that what Danarius did to him was love, it later turns into self discovery which leads to the understanding that he was abused and manipulated.

Hawke: "Was it that bad?" Fenris: "No... it was fine." Hawke: *glares*
Fenris: *awkwardly* "That is... insufficient." *slowly and methodically*
"It better than anything I could have dreamed.")

I often felt that was forced. He noticed Hawke's disappointment and suddenly realizes it was the wrong thing to say. But I also think he is grappling with how to handle a consensual relationship.

Ahhhhhhhh! This is going to sound bad. Maker, someone is going to want to cut my throat after this. Oh well! It will not be the first time.

I don't think Fenris perceives Isabela as anything other than what I want right now. . In every meaningful relationship there is give and take. Fenris understands the give part, but I can see him getting addicted to the take part. With Isabela, I feel it is about take what you want and then get the hell out. But, when it comes to Hawke, depending on how you play the character, it may be more about wrestling with feelings. I... hmmmm... if I had been able to roleplay Hawke extensively it would not be the same Hawke portrayed in the game when it comes to Fenris.

Two and a bit cents worth. Forgive my past and present tense misuse and punctuation. Wine is the remedy to imminent mother-in-law hell. Corypheous comes! She speaks to me!

Faerunner, I enjoy your posts! You have such a brilliant mind. Never let anyone tell you otherwise.  

Modifié par aldien, 09 juin 2012 - 02:03 .

[MissRedZelda]

In my most honest opinion, I don't think him being with Isabela is good for him at all. Because, I think that the saddest thing about his enslavement and ltrium infusing is how it took away not only his memroes, but his ability to feel emotions for others. For example in Hawke's case, feelings of genuine romantic love.

With Isabela, there is no love. Only sex. No strings attached sex. And that is fine for a little while, but not in the long term. Also, it just shows how strong that wall he still has between him and the rest of the world is. However, it seems with Hawke, that wall is beginning to come down. He begins rto feel emotions of love, just like a normal sentient being.

I think that, with Hawke, Fenris finally finds a reason to let go of his past and focus on his future. All Isabela is doing is holding him back.

Not that I'm saying anything bad about our favourite rogue pirate! I really like Isabela! I just feel that she's a bad partner for Fenris.

[CuriousArtemis]

To be honest, I think Isabela x Fenris was not something that was thought about much. Just amusing banter that the devs tossed in without much thought to their characters.

[Dwarva]

motomotogirl wrote...

To be honest, I think Isabela x Fenris was not something that was thought about much. Just amusing banter that the devs tossed in without much thought to their characters.

I'd tend to agree with this. I think it's been done just to add a bit of 'colour' with little thought to their backgrounds. I'd imagine that some of the fans have given a lot more thought to the characters motives and personality than some of the writers. It comes from overanalysing.

[Dutchess]

Ha, I doubt any of the writers would admit this (David Gaider isn't known for admitting mistakes in the writing), but I agree wholeheartedly. Poor Fenris. Used to remind the player the companioins are able to have sex with someone else than Hawke.

[Dwarva]

It reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask you guys for a while actually. When one of the writers is credited for writing a certain companion, how does it work exactly? Like Jennifer Hepler writes Sebastian - does she write literally everything that comes out his mouth? Or is it just his general backstory and personality and a regular writer does the dialogue?

[Dutchess]

I'm not sure, but I don't think it's one writer who literally determines everything a character says. There will still be interaction among writers, I believe. The writer who gets credit for writing a character has probably established most of the character's personality and backstory. Again, don't take this as the real, infallible truth, because I am no expert on game developing either. But this idea is what I picked up from reading some dev comments every now and then.

[Dwarva]

Thanks ren. I did think thats how it would be but it made me wonder how they all create dialogue with one another. I suppose I have this image in my head of the writers all doing their own thing but suppose they probably work in a team more than I thought.

[CuriousArtemis]

From what I understand, they have about six people in the so-called "Writer's Pit," not including (or maybe including) David Gaider, who is of course head writer. So I think each of these writers develops several characters, from personality to back story, then the writers work together, perhaps RP-style, when doing the dialogue, and DG oversees and tweaks the result.

Oh, the "from what I understand" bit was in regards to the Writer's Pit; the rest is speculation on my part

[Dutchess]

^Don't be silly, nobody hates you, and nobody will hate you now. xD I see your point and you make a valid argument. I just have one question: do you think Fenris has his memories returning with Isabela as well? Nothing in their dialogue suggests it, so it seems he doesn't suffer from flashbacks when he is with Isa. Hmm, I'm not even sure why I'm asking, but because you mention romantic partner Hawke "fixing" things for him. Perhaps the memories are part of the fixing? As in, part htat needs to be fixed? He somehow has to give the loss of a huge part of his life a place.

[CuriousArtemis]

It could be that some of us just don't like romance-less sexual relationships. I do personally find it unpalatable, and it just feels "wrong" for a character like Fenris. I would rather Fenris fall in love with Merrill than engage in a consensual emotionless sexual relationship with Isabela.

Okay y'all I'm not as good at recognizing voice actors or seiyuu as some. But I could've sworn I just heard Gideon Emery do the commercial break for Euro 2012 on ESPN.

[MissRedZelda]

moto, I compleatly agree with you - on the whole Fenris and Isabela thing. They just seem so wrong together.I wouldn't mind him being with Merrill, but Isabela? No. She's only in it for the short term. Fenris, I feel needs a proper, long-term relationship. With Hawke or someone else.

[berelinde]

Don't hate me, but I can totally see Fenris and Isabela edging sideways into a long-term relationship. Assuming that Hawke isn't with either of them, naturally. It would start out as being just physical, each of them fulfilling the other's immediate needs, but I could see true intimacy growing out of it. I imagine that neither of them would have intended that to happen, but if it did, I could see it working rather well.

Actually, if Hawke was allowed to have that kind of relationship with Fenris - friends with benefits that turned into something more - I would be able to create a Hawke that could romance him.

Modifié par berelinde, 10 juin 2012 - 01:45 .

[aldien]

Faerunner wrote...

@aldien Oh, I see! Sorry, I tend to take things seriously. Never mind then! XD

Ah! I know I'm going to make myself extensively hated around here (if I haven't already) but I honestly don't have a problem with Fenris and Isabela. [/is shot dead] As far as I know, they only get together in Act 3 and only if Hawke hasn't romanced either one of them, so they've known each other for years and Hawke is just a mutual platonic friend that has completed most of their personal quests and helped them become calmer, happier people. (Depending on how you play. Though if Isabela is still around after Act 2, odds are Hawke still has that darned influence on her!)

I believe that every relationship is, at its core, a contract. Two people with needs coming together and fulfilling each other's needs; be they legal, financial, emotional or sexual. I personally don't see Fenris and Isabela's relationship as one taking advantage of the other (since they both seem to get something out of it, and Fenris seems to consider her desires too. "Last night... I can't stop thinking about it!" "All right, I'll see you tonight.") or one emotionally dragging the other down (since Fenris is supposedly aready receiving emotional counseling--I mean healing from Hawke) but two single, healthy adults that come together and fulfill each other's needs in a surprsingly mature, healthy fashion.

Also, when you think about it, Fenris is introduced as an emotionally and physically damaged fugitive with trust and intimacy issues. If not romanced, you can think of it as a platonic friend Hawke helping him work through his emotional and trust issues, while his time with Isabela helps him work through his aversion to touching and sex, which just helps him be an over-all more healthy person for when he does find the love of his life. (Preferably a nice elf, but that's just me! XD)

I just think it doesn't necessarily have to be Romantic Partner Hawke that fixes everything for him. I think it's possible for him to receive different kinds of help or fulfillment from different people, and just because his relationship with Isabela is casual/sexual doesn't mean it's unhealthy or destructive. For what it does, it seems to do nothing but benefit for both parties.

You are not hated! We throw dirty socks at people we hate. No dirty socks your way? Then you are good The Fenris thread can get patronizing and female doggish at times, but usually it bounces back and becomes fluffy, full of glowy goodness until emotions run high. The thread has its own time of the month. Honestly, it does.

Here's something to think about: why does Isabela = healthy. We spend a lot of time on this thread discussing Fenris's mental health issues, but what I have rarely seen, is the mention of her issues within the context of the Isabela and Fenris relationship. Is everyone really that jealous on here?

She has as many issues as him when it comes to trust, fulfillment, denial and general dysfunction. It always seems to fall on Fenris because he is seen as the victim, therefore, the other person, including Hawke, will always be in the wrong. I've seen many comments concerning Hawke and how her/his actions were detrimental to Fenris's recovery. But, if you think about it, Hawke is as dysfunctional as the rest of them. I can state why if you like.

There is nothing wrong with a purely physical consensual relationship, but I would say when it comes to this particular set of people that they should look outside of their group. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the Hawke and Fenris relationship, but in reality, I think it would be better for Fenris to look elsewhere when it comes to intimacy. There is simply too much baggage in Hawke's group of companions for any relationship, whether serious or not, to end up being healthy. That's idealistic, I know, but the game is so linear in many respects. It's very stringent and reminds me too much of rules. I prefer drunken computer programmers who like to write people loving up the local merchant in their spare time rather than the saucy pirate wench that can slay dragons in her knickers without losing a limb

juest think it doesn't necessarily have to be Romantic Partner Hawke that fixes everything for him.

That really  summarizes Fenris and Hawke in many ways. We don't get to hear Hawke's rants to Fenris. We only hear the companions discuss their problems. I want to know how much Hawke is charging an hour.

Preferably a nice elf, but that's just me! XD)

I have been thinking that more and more everyday! I don't think Fenris is too good for Hawke or anything like that. But... he is so out of touch when it comes to being an elf (I think he is) that I would enjoy watching him fumble through a relationship with an elf. Hawke is a wonderful character and I love the romance between Hawke and Fenris, but I also like considering different options for our favorite elf. If I had been able, I would have played an elf in DA2. I guess I am still hooked on Tolkien's elves from the Silmarillion so... okay, perhaps I am about elven superiority.  I don't consider it a bad thing.

Modifié par aldien, 10 juin 2012 - 03:39 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Speaking of Elf x Fenris, there's some great Zevran x Fenris art out there, ya know

My Hawke is not dysfunctional, so I dunno. At least I don't play him that way. Maybe one of mine, my first one, Nemanja Hawke, because he was very serious and carried a heavy burden on his shoulders, the rock of his family and so on and so forth.

But my other Hawke's are all very easy-going and that's why they fit so well with broody Fenris Hawke teases Fenris and gets him to smile. I think when Hawke flirted with him that first time and Fenris laughed, all embarrassed and taken aback, that that's when he really started to fall for him, even if he didn't know it

About Isabela; I agree she has issues, poor thing. I dearly love her. It's why I only like to imagine her with a woman, not a man. No man is good enough for her!!! She's too amazing. But not FemHawke because I like to pair FemHawke with Merrill.

[Ryzaki]

Yup agreed. I play most of my Hawkes as very level headed and sane (I do have a few crazies but I usually give them to Anders). It's why they were for the most part given such a large responsibility by Leandra. They're risk takers (that's why they go into the deep roads) but they're not dysfunctional.

So yeah dysfunctional Hawke is clearly something that varies from player to player.

As for the healthiness of Isabela/Fenris I'm not sure about it. Isabela always runs off with the book in my games so not sure how that'd leave her and Fenris' relationship. As for Fenris and Hawke most likely depends on the Hawke.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juin 2012 - 05:10 .

[MissRedZelda]

Each to their own, but I really can't see Isabela settling down with one person. Even with a female/male Hawke. She seems to be the type of person who can never be tied down with one person. and really, Isabela seemed to be only physically attracted to Fenris. I just really can't see them turning into a long-term relationship. They really have too much baggage between them.

Also, my Hawke is a jealous b**** ;-)

[CuriousArtemis]

Okay, speaking of Zevran x Fenris, I encountered this hilarious little drabble by moodymarshmallow.  It is one-sided Zevran flirting with Fenris, who is apparently already in a relationship with Hawke (gender not mentioned), so it shouldn't bother anyone xD

“I see that you are staring at me, do you have a question, or are you just admiring the best of what Antiva has to offer?” Zevran was wiping blood off of one of his fine daggers, and had caught the large, tattooed elf stealing glances at him. Zevran Arainai was never one to miss an opportunity for a little harmless flirtation. 

“Do all elven assassins wear a skirt?” 

“Why yes! It is necessary for range of motion, my good friend! Sexy, skin-tight trousers like your own are not terribly practical for those of us without access to a good tailor. However, were I given the chance to get into trousers like yours, specifically yours, I would not say no.” 

Fenris raised a dark eyebrow at the assassin, looking unimpressed. 

“Technically, I am no longer an assassin, as I am not taking contracts or payment. I am more of a… recreational hunter of Crows and their associates. Tell me, are you simply interested in my clothing choices, or is there something more that draws your gorgeous eyes?” 

Fenris’ brows rose higher. The Antivan worked faster than Hawke, which was an accomplishment in itself. “I was merely wondering how incompetent the Crows were if capturing one elf was a job that only the Champion of Kirkwall was capable of.”

“Oh, I don’t know. We elves can be formidable. I doubt the Crows would be able to capture, say, you, for instance.” 

The shadow of a smile crossed Fenris’ lips. “Perhaps not.” 

Modifié par motomotogirl, 10 juin 2012 - 07:32 .

[Dwarva]

motomotogirl wrote...

Speaking of Elf x Fenris, there's some great Zevran x Fenris art out there, ya know

My absolutely favourite fanfic EVER (and I've read quite a lot....) was Eye of the Storm. It's mainly a Sebastian/Anders pairing but some of the best parts are the Zev/Fenris side of it. I'm sure you've all read it but if you haven't, please do. It made me cry about 6 times and I'm definitely not a crier.

[dracuella]

Staarbux wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

To be honest, I think Isabela x Fenris was not something that was thought about much. Just amusing banter that the devs tossed in without much thought to their characters.

I'd tend to agree with this. I think it's been done just to add a bit of 'colour' with little thought to their backgrounds. I'd imagine that some of the fans have given a lot more thought to the characters motives and personality than some of the writers. It comes from overanalysing.

What?!?! Overanalyse? Us?! NEVER!! 
Perhaps we do think too much into things like these, but to me it's not so much overanalysing as it is trying to get more lore on our characters. I mean, there's so much untold about Fenris that it is only natural we would want to know more. And since they throw little tidbits like that one into the arena completely uncommented.. well, we're bound to try to test  it to see if there's something to it :innocent:

Staarbux wrote...
My absolutely favourite fanfic EVER (and I've read quite a lot....) was Eye of the Storm. It's mainly a Sebastian/Anders pairing but some of the best parts are the Zev/Fenris side of it. I'm sure you've all read it but if you haven't, please do. It made me cry about 6 times and I'm definitely not a crier. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

 
Thanks for the warning, I'll make sure to read it AFTER football starts so I'm alone in front of the computer. With my towel. Which is apparently necessary whenever I read good Fenris fic. That damn elf messes with my head! 

[CuriousArtemis]

Haha I'm a romantic so I like when the love scene occurs <3<3<3 It's so passionate yet sweet.  And I really love Fenris's whole story, how he can't deal with things and so he runs away, but Hawke loves him so much that s/he waits for him for three years *swoon swoon swoon* But then I also always love those darned tsundere characters xD

Modifié par motomotogirl, 11 juin 2012 - 03:54 .