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[CuriousArtemis]

Faerunner wrote...

Heh, have to agree about Hawke seeming like Fenris' (an other companions') therapist. XD I'm sure Fenris is there for Hawke too (such as asking questions about Lothering and possibly being there after Mumzy dies) and it's definitely great for Fenris to have a trusted friend and confident to share his feelings and sort through his problems with, but still... it feels like Hawke spends way more time counselling Fenris through his problems than being an equal partner...

Ohhhh see this is why I like M!Hawke with Fenris so much!  It's SO NOT an equal partnership!!  Hawke is such a caregiver, and Fenris is the one who needs to be cared for ever so gently.  I love that in a m/m pairing.  Seeing a guy being so delicate and vulnerable ... it's awesome.  But it only works with another guy for some reason.  It's like, I get that similar reaction when I think of him being with a woman ... like, buck up man!!  I can't imagine any woman putting up with him or having the willpower to treat him with the kid gloves he really needs to be treated with.  So I can see how it would feel weird or wrong or annoying for FemHawke to act as Fenris' counselor of sorts.

But at the same time, it is an interesting dynamic because it puts the woman in the "leadership" position, and THAT'S pretty damn cool, you know?

[MissRedZelda]

That's why I like Bioware games so much. It's actually quite an uncommon thing, even in this day and age, here a female is the lead protagonist and player character. With Bioware, you can choose, and not much in the way of gameplay differs.

@moto: What's wrong with the woman wearing the trousers in a relationship? It's not unsual, you know. Not mostly.

But I still really don't like Fenris and Isabela together. It just really REALLY bothers me. I always got the impression that he was repulsed by her, And for him to suddenly be in bed with her . . .? No. No. I really don't agree with it.

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 11 juin 2012 - 07:05 .

[Ryzaki]

My FemWarden definitely wears the pants in her relationship with Alistair. Someone has to. XD

And yeah not fond of the Isabela/Fenris ship either. But it is easily avoidable so I can't really get that bothered by it.

[dracuella]

motomotogirl wrote...
Ohhhh see this is why I like M!Hawke with Fenris so much!  It's SO NOT an equal partnership!!  Hawke is such a caregiver, and Fenris is the one who needs to be cared for ever so gently.  I love that in a m/m pairing.  Seeing a guy being so delicate and vulnerable ... it's awesome.  But it only works with another guy for some reason.  It's like, I get that similar reaction when I think of him being with a woman ... like, buck up man!!  I can't imagine any woman putting up with him or having the willpower to treat him with the kid gloves he really needs to be treated with.  So I can see how it would feel weird or wrong or annoying for FemHawke to act as Fenris' counselor of sorts.

Over the years I've come to realise that I'm a fixer, an enabler, the sort that thrives when everybody is happy. Thus the idea of Fenris being troubled is simply water on my Hawke's mill: she will try to fix his problems no matter what and not stop till she succeeds. It's a mix of big-sistering and championing and wanting the ones you love to feel good. I myself have never been attracted to the stereotypical guy who fixed my problems and made sure everything was okay for his princess (even if I am ); I like my guys with a touch of 'troubled', ones that need me to the same degree that I need them and not just for making sandwiches (yes, I've had one of those, too ). Now, I'm not talking about whiny Woody Allen here or being one of the women who marry convicts because they think they can save them. I'm talking about someone who understands that while most guys are in many ways 'simple' (my guy friends tell me this themselves all the time, please don't lynch me :3), even guys can lead troubled lives, too

Modifié par dracuella, 11 juin 2012 - 07:42 .

[Dwarva]

Faerunner wrote...

Heh, have to agree about Hawke seeming like Fenris' (an other companions')
therapist. XD I'm sure Fenris is there for Hawke too (such as asking questions
about Lothering and possibly being there after Mumzy dies) and it's definitely
great for Fenris to have a trusted friend and confident to share his feelings
and sort through his problems with, but still... it feels like Hawke spends way
more time counselling Fenris through his problems than being an equal
partner...

I think that's probably true for all of the LIs though IMO. It felt that for all of them you were acting as a therapist for them. With Fenris it's obviously his issue with magic (more prominent if you're romancing him as a mage), with Anders you're almost like his sponsor in Act 3 given how bloody depressed he is for most of it , with Isabela you're 'bringing her out' of the hedonistic and self involved lifestyle she's been living and Merrill..well yeah if you rivalmance Merrill you're almost becoming the bodyguard against herself. Its almost like all the relationships begin in a state of needing fixed and your HeroHawke is there to save the day. I never really considered that until I had a few playthroughs. Normally with a romancedAnders playthrough I really like him and my Hawke mopes alongside him. But for some reason (maybe because I'm agreeing less and less how he ends things....) he's really grating at me on this playthrough and makes me wonder how much I agree with how he resolves things. Interesting considering I looked at all my characters last night and, out of 8 complete playthroughs, I have 6 friendmanced Anders relationships!! Madness... I didn't appreciate Fenris fully until recently.

MissRedZelda wrote...

I always got the impression that he was repulsed by her, And for him to
suddenly be in bed with her . . .? No. No. I really don't agree with it.

 Interesting. What makes you think he was repulsed by her? Not disagreeing necessarily - just curious. I always thought he pretty much 'humoured' her. Moreso than some of the others actually. The banter about his underwear, 'that fisting thing' etc pointed to a pretty amicable relationship in my eyes. I always just assumed he saw her as 'mostly harmless'.

Ryzaki wrote...

My FemWarden definitely wears the pants in her relationship with Alistair.
Someone has to. XD

Oh good God yes. I LOVE Alastair (he's probably one of my favourite characters in a game.....ever) but man he certainly didn't fill the 'traditional male role' in their relationship. It's why the line about the Warden being his 'ball and chain' in DA2 really made me giggle. I always imagined him making it seem to outsiders that he was totally in charge when, in fact, she'd have had his balls if she ever caught him saying that.

Modifié par Staarbux, 11 juin 2012 - 08:54 .

[Dutchess]

Oh, you guys just discusss away without even posting a Fenris! Haha.

Hawke is the therapist for most of the companions, ad I think the same can be said about the Warden. The relationships need some kind of "hurdle" that has to be overcome, and because the writers can't assume a problem on the player's part, it has to be the love interest who has the problem. It has to be Fenris who runs away, not Hawke. But when I think about Hawke a bit more, I do believe Hawke is also pretty scarred by act 3. No one shrugs the death of three family members in a relative short time off easily. So Hawke needs counseling too. And I believe Fenris is able to give that. He shows up after Leandra's death, so he wants and can offer comfort.

In my eyes both Hawke and Fenris need a special person who understands them, who is there for them in their darkest hours. And I can see them fullfilling that role for each other. Who cares if Fenris has more issues than Hawke that has to be worked through? Why would it matter that much?

Faerunner is right that Fenris probably doesn't need the ultimate love of his life to fix his issues, that he can get there with others as well, but I think it does help. It gives him an extra push to work on himself. We see he struggles with that and runs away at first, but once he has finally made up his mind he is determined to make it work. Being with Hawke helps to give him a purpose. He seems to be at a loss with what to do with himself after the debacle with Varania.


by yuhime

[MissRedZelda]

Staarbux wrote...

Interesting. What makes you think he was repulsed by her? Not disagreeing necessarily - just curious. I always thought he pretty much 'humoured' her. Moreso than some of the others actually. The banter about his underwear, 'that fisting thing' etc pointed to a pretty amicable relationship in my eyes. I always just assumed he saw her as 'mostly harmless'.

I guess. It seemed to swing between him humouring her and being repulsed by her. Sometimes he would tell her to keep away from him. (shrugs) He can never make up him mind. Indecisive elf. Either way, I just don't like them together.

I agree with you, renjility. The main PCs really like to play the therapist. I've always seen Hawke (my Hawke at least) as the one who understands Fenris the most, even though she hasn't gone through the slavery thing herself. And just because she hasn't, doesn't mean she can't try to empathise.

By the way, I love that fanart. That's how the comforting scene in "All That Remains" should have gone.

EDIT: I was looking at that piece while I was listening to a piano version of "I'm Proud of You" from the ME3 soundtrack. A tear actually rolled down my cheek 

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 11 juin 2012 - 09:32 .

[Dwarva]

renjility wrote...



by yuhime

Oh I love this.


Edit: Isabela was BY FAR the hardest one yet.....

Modifié par Staarbux, 11 juin 2012 - 01:10 .

[dracuella]

Staarbux wrote...

Edit: Isabela was BY FAR the hardest one yet.....

Holy carp!! Maker and Andraste's flaming knickers! That is SO. SPOT. ON! How do you do it? I have no skill what so ever when it comes to putting clothes together, I'm so envious!!
Possibly the hardest one, Staarbux, but definately  the best one yet!

PS: I might actually steal all your set ideas and buy them. Simply because they're amazing and I suck at it myself

Modifié par dracuella, 11 juin 2012 - 02:59 .

[Dutchess]

Ooh, Isabela´s set is great indeed. Love the corset!

[Dwarva]

dracuella wrote...

Staarbux wrote...

Edit: Isabela was BY FAR the hardest one yet.....

Holy carp!! Maker and Andraste's flaming knickers! That is SO. SPOT. ON! How do you do it? I have no skill what so ever when it comes to putting clothes together, I'm so envious!!
Possibly the hardest one, Staarbux, but definately  the best one yet!

PS: I might actually steal all your set ideas and buy them. Simply because they're amazing and I suck at it myself

Aaww... Thanks! You might have a bit of expense buying the stuff though - often it's like a $20 Macy's scarf but the dress is, like, a $2000 Valentino Summer 2010 exclusive. :innocent:  I just really love the idea that, for most of them, you could go out 'dressed' as your favouite DA character and no one would bat an eyelid. Its so nearly cosplay...but not enough to get you stared at lol.

I really love doing them and might branch out from DA. I just wish I had the artistic talent for writing and drawing that everyone else does.

Also I just did Tallis which might be my favourite (and most wearable?) one yet. I could actually see myself wearing the entire outfit.


PS Sorry for derailing the thread from Fenrischat whenever I post of one these...lol.

Modifié par Staarbux, 11 juin 2012 - 03:06 .

[Sialater]

So, I have another question....

In a rivalmance with Hawke... why does he seem to be more isolated from the rest of the companions? I'm not sure why Hawke not putting up with his mage-hate/distrust would effect his friendship with Donnic or Sebastian.

[Dutchess]

Hmm, as far as I know the type of relationship with Hawke does not affect interaction with other companions (except for sleeping with Isabela when not romanced, obviously). You probably just haven't had some banters trigger yet. It's random what they talk about and when.

[Sialater]

I coulda sworn I've read someone complaining about that as a negative to the Rivalmance.

[Dwarva]

I can't say it's something I've ever noticed either... And when I rivalmance him he's normally the only one I'm rivaling at the time. xD

[CuriousArtemis]

Oh I know women can wear the pants in a relationship but perhaps I prefer the thought of a m/f couple wherein they both are equals. Hard to explain. I don't find a wimpy guy all that attractive, like the "woe is me" artsy type, and so I don't like to see that kind of guy in a m/f relationship.

Now with Alistair, see, I don't see him as similar to Fenris at all; Alistair is bumbling and immature, but he's fairly emotionally secure (I think) and doesn't need the Warden to hold his hand. Of course you can harden him (such a goofy thing in DA:O) which basically consists of being mean to him during a difficult time lol but still. No I definitely see Alistair x Warden as a relationship between equals.

About Fenris and magic; I don't think Hawke acts are Fenris' counselor in regards to magic; magic is like the outer coat that Fenris' "issues" wear... Fenris's real issues are all about slavery and being a free man and being sure of who he is in the world. He needs Hawke to help him figure that out.

That's the why the thought of not romancing Fenris just makes me sad, and it's why I have to not recruit him if I want to romance someone else. Especially since no way does Isabela take Hawke's place in that regard!! Sex is nice, but that's about one twentieth of what Fenris really needs in a relationship.

[Sialater]

Oh, I dunno... I think he has plenty of legitimate reasons to hate magic.

And this coming from someone who always plays a mage.

Modifié par Sialater, 11 juin 2012 - 04:23 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Oh I know That's not what I mean though. Magic is just the outer form of oppression and abuse for Fenris. Fenris could have been abused by templars, Wardens, or a coalition of wheat farmers, and I don't think his overall personality and method of dealing with his issues would have changed. It's the fact that he was abused and brainwashed that he needs Hawke, not just because "magic is evil."

[Dutchess]

Sialater wrote...

I coulda sworn I've read someone complaining about that as a negative to the Rivalmance.

Eh... well, I'm pretty sure that is completely invalid. Rivaling companions changes their dialogue with Hawke, but not their banter with other NPC's. They may say something different when a quest ends differently (I assume Fenris will not discuss Donnic with Aveline when Hawke refused to play Cupido), but other than that... I still had Sebastian teasing Fenris that he saw him praying in the Chantry when I rivalromanced Fenris. Fenris also still refused to turn the mages in Hawke's party in when Sebastian tries to persuade him. Fenris still dislikes Anders and Merrill, and seems to be on good foot with Isabela and Aveline. When you look up companion's dialogue on the wiki, there is never a message that says this banter will only occur when in rivalry with Hawke, except when one of the lines is about Hawke. That line can change. But not Isabela's stories about tattooed boobs or things like that.
So whatever the negatives to rivalmancing may be, that's not one of them.

[Ryzaki]

Sialater wrote...

I coulda sworn I've read someone complaining about that as a negative to the Rivalmance.

Well I can flat out say that's not true. I've heard those banters with a rivalmanced Fenris. The only thing I've seen change is Fenris romance banter either with Hawke or about Hawke. But no he's not more seperated from the group.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 11 juin 2012 - 04:39 .

[Sialater]

I'm glad. It was my only sticking point in the rivalry with my mage Hawke. I didn't want him cut off from everyone just because the two of them are in a stormy relationship.

[CuriousArtemis]

Staarbux wrote...

Edit: Isabela was BY FAR the hardest one yet.....

Oh very nice!  I was kind of hoping for an outfit that sort of captured "who Isabela is" though rather than just trying to find clothes in our world that exactly mirror her own.  I think my disappointment is based around the fact that I hate Isabela's default outfit xD

[Dwarva]

motomotogirl wrote...

Staarbux wrote...

Edit: Isabela was BY FAR the hardest one yet.....

Oh very nice!  I was kind of hoping for an outfit that sort of captured "who Isabela is" though rather than just trying to find clothes in our world that exactly mirror her own.  I think my disappointment is based around the fact that I hate Isabela's default outfit xD

Yeah I know what you mean. I do want it to be something that reflects the character but also is visually recognisable as theirs if that makes sense? Or else Bela's would just be a set of underwear if you asked me.