55380 réponses à ce sujet

[CuriousArtemis]

Damn, you ladies are picky!  My criteria for a decent love interest is: 1. Is he interesting? and 2. Is he hot? (or in Fenris's case, is he cute/super adorable/squishy squishy FenFen?)  (Or something)

Cullen is very interesting and super adorable to boot; nay, I would say he is verging on hot.  My favorite Cullen moment is when he steps back and allows Hawke to leave after defeating Meredith (my Hawke's are always pro-mage ... I never claim myself to be pro-mage or pro-templar because I think of myself more as the writer telling a story, not an actor within the story).  His uncertainty and confusion makes him adorable.  My DA3 protag, who, true, does not yet exist ... technically ... wants to smex him up something awful xD

Nathaniel is just hot.  HOT.  And he's one of the rare characters who looked hotter in DA2, like way hotter.  He's chivalrous, well, he's a noble, but he's also a Grey Warden, so he's truly chivalrous ... he's a gentleman in the true sense of the word because he has purpose, and that purpose is to protect those weaker than himself.  My nonexistent DA3 protag is meltin at the thought of snuggling up in his manly Wardeny arms. YUM.

I agree that Fenris has to be a pretty remarkable character to keep us coming back.  Look at how remarkable his ... I don't even find him hot in the traditional sense ... in fact looking at naked Fen pics makes me wrinkle my nose, haha xD But I love him so much and love talking about him (and Hawke ... OTP FOREVERRR) that I keep coming back!

[Dwarva]

aldien wrote...


Well, ideally I would hope Fenris would read fiction simply for the pleasure of reading. I did notice there is a book in his mansion in Act III entitles: The Maker's First Children. Whether we are supposed to assume he is reading it or not who can say. But, perhaps that is Sebastian's influence on him?

I always assumed so. That speaking to Sebastian may have renewed his faith somewhat. Along with the comment Seb makes about seeing him at service. I actually think underneath it all Fenris is keen to put his trust in something bigger?


This isn't a reflection of my personal religious views of course (far from it ) but I do think of most of the followers, he's the one I can see having the most faith after Seb.

[Dutchess]

Staarbux wrote...

aldien wrote...


Well, ideally I would hope Fenris would read fiction simply for the pleasure of reading. I did notice there is a book in his mansion in Act III entitles: The Maker's First Children. Whether we are supposed to assume he is reading it or not who can say. But, perhaps that is Sebastian's influence on him?

I always assumed so. That speaking to Sebastian may have renewed his faith somewhat. Along with the comment Seb makes about seeing him at service. I actually think underneath it all Fenris is keen to put his trust in something bigger?

I have seen many people accuse Sebastian of preaching, but I think he really has a good influence on Fenris in this. I'm not religious myself, so religious characters can quickly annoy me when they go on about their faith, but I think Seb is a sweetheart. And he is not pushing Fenris. Fenris is desperately searching for meaning in his life, a purpose, being more than what Danarius used him for. And that he can find it in himself to believe in something, even the Maker, after everything he has been through is a very good thing in my opinion. It helps him to see he is not a lesser person because he used to be a slave. If he can believe the Maker loves all His children and that he just as good as every other person, then that is wonderful. Sebastian was kind enough to remind him of that and spark his interest in the subject.

I apologize for the very creepy picture, but I haven't posted thsi one before and still think it was well-done (in the creepy sort of way)


Rhelara 

[CuriousArtemis]

WTF REN THAT IS CREEPY ಠ_ಠ

[LolaLei]

... Omg, is that... Anders head?

[aldien]

Seb: Hmmmmm

Fen: What?

Seb: Would you consider it art?

Fen: It is pleasing to the eye.

Seb: Yes, well I think I have the perfect spot for it back at my place.



LMAO! I know I shouldn't encourage Ren, but.... the reaction to the picture made me giggle.

Modifié par aldien, 02 juillet 2012 - 04:43 .

[CuriousArtemis]

I thought it was Danarius. If that is Anders ... that's just sick.

[berelinde]

Of course, it's Anders. Why would Sebastian look so smug about Danarius's head on a platter?

Note the blood on Fenris's gauntlets. Looks like he did Seb a favor.

[CuriousArtemis]

It's quite bizarrely out of character. I don't see Sebastian, a man of the Maker, gloating over the head of someone he (or Fenris) killed. True, Sebastian does want Hawke to kill Anders to atone for his sin, but he's also very angry (understandably so) in that moment. And even so, though he does want Anders to die, I don't see him smiling smugly after the event takes place.

Fenris is also out of character; he is the one who tells Sebastian he won't turn Hawke's mage friends in to the templars. Now he's gloating over Anders's head? When does Fenris ever look pleased after killing someone? He goes into a depressive rage after killing Hadriana, one of his most hated enemies, and he falls into a DEEP depression after killing Danarius.

Well, I definitely respect an artist's right to paint what she likes But people's reactions to the pic are what's disturbing ... but a lot of fan reactions to this game (and particularly Adners) are disturbing.

Sigh.

[Dutchess]

 Sorry! I don't mean to offend anyone. As I said, it is a really creepy picture, but I am a silly person who believes that when it is creepy, the artist has succeeded (the artist says so as well in the comments).

And I kinda can imagine Fenris and Sebastian teaming up to hunt Anders down, in the scenario that Fenris is not romanced by Hawke...

And aldien, lol @ their conversation. I can picture them saying that, haha.

[Dutchess]

motomotogirl wrote...

It's quite bizarrely out of character. I don't see Sebastian, a man of the Maker, gloating over the head of someone he (or Fenris) killed. True, Sebastian does want Hawke to kill Anders to atone for his sin, but he's also very angry (understandably so) in that moment. And even so, though he does want Anders to die, I don't see him smiling smugly after the event takes place.

Fenris is also out of character; he is the one who tells Sebastian he won't turn Hawke's mage friends in to the templars. Now he's gloating over Anders's head? When does Fenris ever look pleased after killing someone? He goes into a depressive rage after killing Hadriana, one of his most hated enemies, and he falls into a DEEP depression after killing Danarius.

Well, I definitely respect an artist's right to paint what she likes But people's reactions to the pic are what's disturbing ... but a lot of fan reactions to this game (and particularly Adners) are disturbing.

Sigh.

Hmm, I don't agree it would be that much out of character for either of them. Anders murdered the woman who offered Sebastian guidance, who was a mother figure for him and thus the only family he had left. We have seen (for example in his introduction scene) that there is more behind the "man of the Maker". He has a strong sense of justice and ignores his vows to the Maker to get his revenge. I really can see himself completely focusing on hunting Anders down, and become less a man of the Maker in the meantime. Sebastian is more than the Brother he tries to be. There is much beneath the surface, and not everything is pretty.

Fenris does not enjoy the act of killing, but he does not feel particularly bad about it either (except with Varania, I think). The reason he acts so sad after Hadriana's and Danarius' death is more that it does not feel as good as he had hoped and expected, and that it does not suddenly make him feel better. It does not make the pain and hatred go away, and that frustrates him. He finds out that killing is not the ultimate solution. 
When you kill Keran (the (ex-)templar you saved in act 1 from the crazy blood mages who wanted to infiltrate the templar ranks with possessed recruits), Fenris says: "I would kill anyone who used us against you". Fenris is no innocent puppy. He is willing to kill those who have hurt the ones he cares about. I don't see him showing remorse after such an act.

He refuses to turn Anders in out of loyalty to Hawke, because, for some reason he does not understand, Hawke trusts Anders (can depend on the Hawke you play, but because you don't have the real option to turn Anders in, you're kinda forced to accept him at a certain level). But by blowing up the Chantry Anders has ceased to be Hawke's friend (again, depends on the Hawke, a romanced Hawke is probably the exception, though. My Hawkes all gave up on Anders at that point). Still, I think in the situation of the painting Fenris no longer feels his loyalty to Hawke should prevent him from killing Anders, so I imagine the picture is based on a Hawke who told Anders to get out of his/her face. 
Then, for Fenris, Anders the abomination remains, and there is no reason not to kill him.

My analysis.

[aldien]

renjility wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

It's quite bizarrely out of character. I don't see Sebastian, a man of the Maker, gloating over the head of someone he (or Fenris) killed. True, Sebastian does want Hawke to kill Anders to atone for his sin, but he's also very angry (understandably so) in that moment. And even so, though he does want Anders to die, I don't see him smiling smugly after the event takes place.

Fenris is also out of character; he is the one who tells Sebastian he won't turn Hawke's mage friends in to the templars. Now he's gloating over Anders's head? When does Fenris ever look pleased after killing someone? He goes into a depressive rage after killing Hadriana, one of his most hated enemies, and he falls into a DEEP depression after killing Danarius.

Well, I definitely respect an artist's right to paint what she likes But people's reactions to the pic are what's disturbing ... but a lot of fan reactions to this game (and particularly Adners) are disturbing.

Sigh.

Hmm, I don't agree it would be that much out of character for either of them. Anders murdered the woman who offered Sebastian guidance, who was a mother figure for him and thus the only family he had left. We have seen (for example in his introduction scene) that there is more behind the "man of the Maker". He has a strong sense of justice and ignores his vows to the Maker to get his revenge. I really can see himself completely focusing on hunting Anders down, and become less a man of the Maker in the meantime. Sebastian is more than the Brother he tries to be. There is much beneath the surface, and not everything is pretty.

Fenris does not enjoy the act of killing, but he does not feel particularly bad about it either (except with Varania, I think). The reason he acts so sad after Hadriana's and Danarius' death is more that it does not feel as good as he had hoped and expected, and that it does not suddenly make him feel better. It does not make the pain and hatred go away, and that frustrates him. He finds out that killing is not the ultimate solution. 
When you kill Keran (the (ex-)templar you saved in act 1 from the crazy blood mages who wanted to infiltrate the templar ranks with possessed recruits), Fenris says: "I would kill anyone who used us against you". Fenris is no innocent puppy. He is willing to kill those who have hurt the ones he cares about. I don't see him showing remorse after such an act.

He refuses to turn Anders in out of loyalty to Hawke, because, for some reason he does not understand, Hawke trusts Anders (can depend on the Hawke you play, but because you don't have the real option to turn Anders in, you're kinda forced to accept him at a certain level). But by blowing up the Chantry Anders has ceased to be Hawke's friend (again, depends on the Hawke, a romanced Hawke is probably the exception, though. My Hawkes all gave up on Anders at that point). Still, I think in the situation of the painting Fenris no longer feels his loyalty to Hawke should prevent him from killing Anders, so I imagine the picture is based on a Hawke who told Anders to get out of his/her face. 
Then, for Fenris, Anders the abomination remains, and there is no reason not to kill him.

My analysis.

Fenris says: "I would kill anyone who used us against you". Fenris is
no innocent puppy. He is willing to kill those who have hurt the ones he
cares about. I don't see him showing remorse after such an act.

Awwwwwwwww I never knew that! I have never killed Keran. I thought he was kind of hot. LOL! (pretty but dumb) That... wow, I wish I had heard that line before now. *going to go load up game* It's really one of those understated statements that show his love for Hawke. Hell, it's better than some of the more obvious things Fenris says that sound forced at times. Quite lovely.

Honestly, I can't take that picture seriously. It looks humorous to me because of their poses and expressions. It's like they are window shopping. I can't realistically see Anders actual head there, and even if it was, I really wouldn't care. It's just comical.

Besides, what did you think Seb was going to do if you let Anders go? It's not going to involve a paddle and a desk Or, perhaps the time out chair???

I

Modifié par aldien, 02 juillet 2012 - 07:09 .

[berelinde]

Some things never change. I keep hoping, but they never do.

[Dutchess]

I usually let Keran live as well, but the Hawke that did kill him I also use in my story, with the idea that after losing Father, Sister and Mother he is pretty terrified to lose anyone else close to him. So when he hears his brother has been kidnapped he just snaps and wipes out everybody who seems a threat until Carver is safe. I was surprised to hear a line from Fenris after I killed Keran, but it was a nice surprise.

I've always found it a pity there was never a hint of morality in all the random killing. Hawke goes from being forced to kill Darkspawn to killing other refugees and later bandits and what-not. There should have been a chance to roleplay about that. Now it's like killing people is really no big deal at all. Companions only make jokes about it.

[aldien]

renjility wrote...

I usually let Keran live as well, but the Hawke that did kill him I also use in my story, with the idea that after losing Father, Sister and Mother he is pretty terrified to lose anyone else close to him. So when he hears his brother has been kidnapped he just snaps and wipes out everybody who seems a threat until Carver is safe. I was surprised to hear a line from Fenris after I killed Keran, but it was a nice surprise.

I've always found it a pity there was never a hint of morality in all the random killing. Hawke goes from being forced to kill Darkspawn to killing other refugees and later bandits and what-not. There should have been a chance to roleplay about that. Now it's like killing people is really no big deal at all. Companions only make jokes about it.

The only time there seems to be a real serious moral decision to me is when Hawke must choose between templars and mages. I know some people deal with things through humor. I suspect that is just the way they deal with their killing to some degree, not justify it, but find a way to cope and if they didn't...well I'd miss Varric's jokes

But... it's a game and without the killing there would be no action and it would get rather boring. I just can't take the portryal of killing in games seriously, I guess because I see the technical side of it not the emotional. I guess it is kill or be killed. But, again, it is a game and that is where it begins and ends for me. Anders is a bunch of annoying pixels to me. I don't have the emotional realistic attachment to him. Fenris is pixel eye candy and I enjoy his story.



An older, more fluffy pic of Fen. It's still cute as hell. Love this one.

Modifié par aldien, 02 juillet 2012 - 07:19 .

[Dutchess]

I don't mind the includation of killing per se. I just feel like it should not be automatically assumed as normal in every game. DA2 was a game where you could pay some attention to it (without getting all dramatic). At least in DAO you can discuss it with Zevran and let the Warden say how he/she feels about killing (I don't enjoy the act of killing was one of the options). It's a shame it is so completely ignored, in my opinion.

I thought deciding whether to kill Kelder (crazy guy who was kidnapping and killing elf girls because the 'demons' told him) was a real moral decision as well. First time I really paused to think what to do .

A more funny picture to forget the creepy one:


PessimisticGiraffe 

Modifié par renjility, 02 juillet 2012 - 07:16 .

[aldien]

renjility wrote...

I don't mind the includation of killing per se. I just feel like it should not be automatically assumed as normal in every game. DA2 was a game where you could pay some attention to it (without getting all dramatic). At least in DAO you can discuss it with Zevran and let the Warden say how he/she feels about killing (I don't enjoy the act of killing was one of the options). It's a shame it is so completely ignored, in my opinion.

I thought deciding whether to kill Kelder (crazy guy who was kidnapping and killing elf girls because the 'demons' told him) was a real moral decision as well. First time I really paused to think what to do .

A more funny picture to forget the creepy one:

*snip*

Roleplaying games usually have some sort of killing in them. Usually, it is black and white(kill the ogre, darkspawn, naughty dragon etc to save humanity), but Bioware have made it where there is this gray area, which I applaud. If you really get sucked into a story I can see that gray area becoming intense.

(I don't enjoy the act of killing was one of the options). It's a shame it is so completely ignored, in my opinion.

I see similar dialogue option come up in Skyrim often. It is appreciated, if nothing else, to better define your character as something more than a mindless killer. Hawke comes across a bit cold at times. Maybe that is why.

I thought deciding whether to kill Kelder (crazy guy who was kidnapping
and killing elf girls because the 'demons' told him) was a real moral
decision as well. First time I really paused to think what to do .

Do you let Fenris kill him?

Sometimes I do for Elven revenge Most of the time I get it over with because the guy is suffering and will do it again. I will say one thing: Aveline's comment disturbed me. She says: Some people are just broken. That really bothered me for a justified reason to kill him.

Modifié par aldien, 02 juillet 2012 - 08:03 .

[CuriousArtemis]

I always let Fenris kill Keldar! Note that when he does so that he is very business-like about the matter; he kills the man, and that is that. No smirking and gloating and laughing with glee.

So, that was my point (which may have been missed). Not that Sebastian and Fenris wouldn't kill Anders (I do believe Sebastian would; he only didn't because the player controls Hawke, so naturally the player must decide whether or not to kill him). Personally, I do not think Fenris would kill Anders the way Sebastian would. Fenris kills when he has to. Anders hasn't hurt Fenris in any way. Also, there's Hawke. But even if Hawke weren't around, I don't think Fenris would just walk up to Anders and kill him. Now, he might (obviously) join in with the templars against the mages. And if Meredith told him to kill Anders, he would. But would he walk up and do it himself? Nope, don't think. Fenris isn't exactly what I'd call, er, a decision-maker.

It's the gloating, people. The sitting there, cuddled up together, with the sick smiles on their faces. It's THAT.

But thankfully I scrolled down and saw the naked reading session and had a lovely giggle xD

[aldien]

motomotogirl wrote...

I always let Fenris kill Keldar! Note that when he does so that he is very business-like about the matter; he kills the man, and that is that. No smirking and gloating and laughing with glee.

So, that was my point (which may have been missed). Not that Sebastian and Fenris wouldn't kill Anders (I do believe Sebastian would; he only didn't because the player controls Hawke, so naturally the player must decide whether or not to kill him). Personally, I do not think Fenris would kill Anders the way Sebastian would. Fenris kills when he has to. Anders hasn't hurt Fenris in any way. Also, there's Hawke. But even if Hawke weren't around, I don't think Fenris would just walk up to Anders and kill him. Now, he might (obviously) join in with the templars against the mages. And if Meredith told him to kill Anders, he would. But would he walk up and do it himself? Nope, don't think. Fenris isn't exactly what I'd call, er, a decision-maker.

It's the gloating, people. The sitting there, cuddled up together, with the sick smiles on their faces. It's THAT.

But thankfully I scrolled down and saw the naked reading session and had a lovely giggle xD

Maker's breath, Moto. I just can't read that much into that picture. It's such a ridiculous setting that it is funny and I just can't take it literally. There seems that a story has been applied to where there is none. Gah... think I will go find something fun to do.

[CuriousArtemis]

lol My bad! I tend to get all teachery sometimes. FYI I didn't like the picture but that's just me, no offense Ren (you posted it, right?) and I hope you can forgive my rant xD But also, because I didn't like the picture, or some fan reactions to it, I had to wax poetic upon WHY I didn't like it. Such is the life of a snooty-faced academic like myself. Sincerely, Mea culpa!

[Dutchess]

motomotogirl wrote...

lol My bad! I tend to get all teachery sometimes. FYI I didn't like the picture but that's just me, no offense Ren (you posted it, right?) and I hope you can forgive my rant xD But also, because I didn't like the picture, or some fan reactions to it, I had to wax poetic upon WHY I didn't like it. Such is the life of a snooty-faced academic like myself. Sincerely, Mea culpa!

None taken. I know it is a provocative picture, and I don't mind that it evokes debate (and it's not like I have a personal connection to the picture; I didn't draw it). 


Aldien, I only now see you posted a picture of nyan Fenris. That's just bizarre.

[CuriousArtemis]

drawn by the person who runs the askbroodyelf tumblr blog

[MissRedZelda]

Wow. Quite a bit of activity since I was here yesterday!

Love the Nyan Cat Fenris picture. Just now I have the damn song stuck in my head.

[LolaLei]

You guys have probably found this already, but I'll just leave it here anyway:

http://www.youtube.c...ture=relchannel

[aldien]

renjility wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

lol My bad! I tend to get all teachery sometimes. FYI I didn't like the picture but that's just me, no offense Ren (you posted it, right?) and I hope you can forgive my rant xD But also, because I didn't like the picture, or some fan reactions to it, I had to wax poetic upon WHY I didn't like it. Such is the life of a snooty-faced academic like myself. Sincerely, Mea culpa!

None taken. I know it is a provocative picture, and I don't mind that it evokes debate (and it's not like I have a personal connection to the picture; I didn't draw it). 


Aldien, I only now see you posted a picture of nyan Fenris. That's just bizarre.

Ren, you just like to start trouble. Ah well, where would we be on the thread without our usual fights...I mean debates

 That's just bizarre.

You need to inhale to understand

Think we could get Gideon to sing a version of Nyan cat? Keowvesh!

The cat is farting rainbows. Yep, still makes me laugh. Love toilet humor.

LolaLei wrote...

You guys have probably found this already, but I'll just leave it here anyway:

http://www.youtube.c...ture=relchannel

I do like that rendition. Maker, it is hard to believe that is Fenris's voice when he sings. Why didn't they have him sing a song to Hawke? That's a point. Why doesn't anyone ever sing in games? I can just picture him singing to Hawke after their make up scene. He has been practicing for weeks. Damn that would have been smexy.

Speaking of Gid, this just cracks me up especially the comments that follow:

www.youtube.com/watch

Yebonet, Arcanum for Internet. Wish they had put that translation in the game!

Modifié par aldien, 03 juillet 2012 - 02:26 .