I'm very pro-mage and anti-slavery. Can't bring myself to be anti-mage because I'm an underdog supporter and all. So I always end up rival-mancing him.
It takes until the end of Act 3 to get his rival bar to 100, because he's my designated tank. Fenris. why do you have to have the most frustrating romance in the game? Anders was easier to get to 100 friendship by the middle of Act 2!
The Official Fenris Discussion thread
Débuté par
Chris Priestly
, déc. 16 2010 09:06
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#51702
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 02:06
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You can still gain a lot of friendship or rivalry points in Fenris' own quests (A Bitter Pill nets a lot of points). Plus his two gifts you're already pretty far along the way, I think, as long as you don't contradict yourself too much in his own quests as well (so getting both frienship and rivalry). I did have trouble to get him to full rivalry on my mage romance, in which I refused to be an ass to him (aggressive options often give rivalry points). Because this Hawke is also pro-mage and anti-slavery, it became somewhat more difficult. If I hadn't reloaded his very first conversation I would not have had enough rivalry in the end.
gabulinka
gabulinka
#51703
Posté 07 juillet 2012 - 11:11
MissRedZelda
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It's annoying because even when you're nice and polite to his during your talks with him, you get friendship points. I was trying to rivalmance him (because I'm pro-Mage and friendmancing him is difficult without being a hypocrite), and I got 15 friendship points.
I was like "FFFFFFFF!!!"
I was like "FFFFFFFF!!!"
#51704
Posté 08 juillet 2012 - 01:16
CuriousArtemis
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Yeah, that's why the friendship/rivalry system needs a lot more tweaking. If BW wants us to believe that a "rival" is not a bad thing (i.e. not an enemy, but a friend you disagree with but still respect), then they need to make it possible to become a rival WITHOUT being a tremendous dick in one-on-one conversations with the character.
#51705
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 08 juillet 2012 - 06:16
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What I liked about DAO was that there were a few situations where you could cross the "moral event horizon" for other characters. No matter how much someone likes you, if you do something that they consider absolutely morally unforgivable, they'll leave you. Wynne with the Circle Tower and/or the defiling the Urn, Leliana with the Urn, Shale with Caridin, Alistair with Loghain, Zevran saying "peace out!" if he doesn't like you, and even Sten questioning your authority in Haven. (Thank goodness his issue is just respect and being beaten in combat wins him over).
What I find really unrealistic about DA2 is that literally nothing you say, nothing you do, ever pisses off your companions enough for them to hate you or leave you. Even if you're a massive jerk that constantly belittles them in conversations, embarrasses them in public, does things they consider morally reprehensible at best, attrocious at worst (like sending mages back to the Gallows for Anders or freeing mages for Fenris), they just make a few disgruntled comments and keep following and respecting you even if you act like someone they should want nothing to do with.
I understand the idea behind the Friendship/Rivalry system. It's possible to disagree with someone but still respect them, or not get along with them but ultimately know their heart is in the right place. (In some ways it's better than having to constantly kiss up to the companions in DAO to get them to like you.) The problem is the game doesn't differentiate "we just disagree" from "I think you're a terrible person."
(Barring, of course, Isabela's stint near the end of Act 2 and other companions near the end of Act 3.)
For Fenris, even if he can look past Hawke helping out with the mage underground railroad, he's also VERY sensitive about slavery and his past with it. I really don't see him hanging around a person who shows they're fine with slavery or constantly belittles him when he opens up about his past with it. I don't care how much I like a person, if I opened up about something traumatic that happened early in life and they made snide comments about it, I'd shut down and never want to open up to that person again, never mind rely on them for my well-being.
I know that Fenris is made of tougher stuff, and in some ways he needs Hawke to keep Danarius at bay, but there are some HORRIBLE things that Hawke can say that I just don't see Fenris putting up with for a minute. Or, if he did, then he would be snide, sarcastic, resentful and emotionally distant toward Hawke in the worst kind of way, not just have a few more aggressive lines and then go back to having the same basic conversations and quests as Friendship!Hawke.
"You and I don't always see eye to eye... but I respect your opinion."
"I'm involved with the mage underground railroad, say terrible things when you open up about your past and keep Orana as a slave, and you respect my opinion??? Forget the lyrium scars, you've got even more serious issues buddy!"
What I find really unrealistic about DA2 is that literally nothing you say, nothing you do, ever pisses off your companions enough for them to hate you or leave you. Even if you're a massive jerk that constantly belittles them in conversations, embarrasses them in public, does things they consider morally reprehensible at best, attrocious at worst (like sending mages back to the Gallows for Anders or freeing mages for Fenris), they just make a few disgruntled comments and keep following and respecting you even if you act like someone they should want nothing to do with.
I understand the idea behind the Friendship/Rivalry system. It's possible to disagree with someone but still respect them, or not get along with them but ultimately know their heart is in the right place. (In some ways it's better than having to constantly kiss up to the companions in DAO to get them to like you.) The problem is the game doesn't differentiate "we just disagree" from "I think you're a terrible person."
(Barring, of course, Isabela's stint near the end of Act 2 and other companions near the end of Act 3.)
For Fenris, even if he can look past Hawke helping out with the mage underground railroad, he's also VERY sensitive about slavery and his past with it. I really don't see him hanging around a person who shows they're fine with slavery or constantly belittles him when he opens up about his past with it. I don't care how much I like a person, if I opened up about something traumatic that happened early in life and they made snide comments about it, I'd shut down and never want to open up to that person again, never mind rely on them for my well-being.
I know that Fenris is made of tougher stuff, and in some ways he needs Hawke to keep Danarius at bay, but there are some HORRIBLE things that Hawke can say that I just don't see Fenris putting up with for a minute. Or, if he did, then he would be snide, sarcastic, resentful and emotionally distant toward Hawke in the worst kind of way, not just have a few more aggressive lines and then go back to having the same basic conversations and quests as Friendship!Hawke.
"You and I don't always see eye to eye... but I respect your opinion."
"I'm involved with the mage underground railroad, say terrible things when you open up about your past and keep Orana as a slave, and you respect my opinion??? Forget the lyrium scars, you've got even more serious issues buddy!"
Modifié par Faerunner, 08 juillet 2012 - 06:17 .
#51706
Posté 08 juillet 2012 - 09:19
Dutchess
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It gives problems when friendship/rivalry is used to measure like/dislike as well. Then you get rivalry for being an aggressive jerk and firendschip for being nice/diplomatic. That's the part of the system they have to work out, and that's also why it was hard to get Fenris to full rivalry without being mean. If you use aggressive options and are pro-slaver, it is very easy to max his rivalry. Fenris being with a Hawke who doesn't disapprove of slavery is very unbelievable. So in this case only you as the player can set that rule and stick to it, because the game doesn't do it.
#51707
Posté 08 juillet 2012 - 05:27
Patchwork
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The biggest flaw for me is that the friendship/rivalry metre doesn't track what you actually but guesses your actions based on where you are on the friendship-rivalry scale. With Fenris and Anders this just means an assumed bias but with Merrill she says you gave her the knife or not depending on whether you're a friend or rival.
I agree with motomotogirl- the system needs tweaking.
The idea is sound but it's not quiet there yet.
I agree with motomotogirl- the system needs tweaking.
The idea is sound but it's not quiet there yet.
#51708
Posté 08 juillet 2012 - 05:30
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Ser Bard wrote...
The biggest flaw for me is that the friendship/rivalry metre doesn't track what you actually but guesses your actions based on where you are on the friendship-rivalry scale. With Fenris and Anders this just means an assumed bias but with Merrill she says you gave her the knife or not depending on whether you're a friend or rival.
I agree with motomotogirl- the system needs tweaking.
The idea is sound but it's not quiet there yet.
Fenris never outright states you are pro-mage/pro-slaver when rivalled. Only Anders assumes you are no mage supporter when you have rivalry with him, while you can gain rivalry by bashing him for being an abomination.
#51709
Posté 08 juillet 2012 - 05:38
coldwetn0se
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The Friendship/Rivalry system is flawed (and I have never particularly cared for the term Rivalry, but.....). However, I have managed to find some ways to manipulate it, and role play at the same time. One example for when I am wanting to max out Friendship quickly with Fenris, is taking advantage of the quest "Wayward Son". You can net a quite a few friendship points from Fenris, but you do have to be willing to do one thing; hand Feynriel over to the Gallows. Even as a mage supporter, I will usually do this (unless I am ok with it taking longer to max Fenris out). I RP it as though I am trying to do as his mother asks (since I get the task from her, and she believes she is doing the right thing). Admittedly it does help knowing that I will always (with the exception of one play through) let Feynriel leave for Tevinter, during "Night Terrors".
I have only rivaled Fenris once, and I did it with a Hawke that romanced him. Because I didn't want to take the "be mean, and ok with slavers" route, I role played with a very passionate (and quite aggresively so) Mage-Supporter. I also did some metagaming ahead of time, so I could role play this as smoothly as possible (there were a few immersion breaking moments, but that play through did work out really well for me.).
I looked up all the rivalry points I could get for Act 1 and Act 2, and even allowed for a few set backs for role playing purposes (for example, even though I get a +10 friendship during Wayward Son, if I have Fenris "fist" Danzig, and then kill all the slavers, I did the math and found where I could take a friendship hit like that, and still max him out near the last third of Act 2). This allowed my Hawke to still be a slave hater, AND still rival Fenris without being mean. Following the wiki, I also found the triggers for the rivalry points, during his personal dialogues. This meant I could choose freely my dialogue options the rest of the time, and use only certain aggro/snarky comments (or the "star" icon, when available) that would guarantee rival points. Role playing this rivalry became much more believable than I at first would have thought possible. I did have to wait till I was about a third of the way through Act 2, before I could do his Bitter Pill quest. Because I waited till I was maxed, I got to role play that as freely as I wished.
I don't always like to play this way, but since I never Rivaled him before, and wanted to do it without the glaring immersion breaking problems that can come up (unless you are wanting to play it as a douche...hehe), this was my best solution for it.
I have only rivaled Fenris once, and I did it with a Hawke that romanced him. Because I didn't want to take the "be mean, and ok with slavers" route, I role played with a very passionate (and quite aggresively so) Mage-Supporter. I also did some metagaming ahead of time, so I could role play this as smoothly as possible (there were a few immersion breaking moments, but that play through did work out really well for me.).
I looked up all the rivalry points I could get for Act 1 and Act 2, and even allowed for a few set backs for role playing purposes (for example, even though I get a +10 friendship during Wayward Son, if I have Fenris "fist" Danzig, and then kill all the slavers, I did the math and found where I could take a friendship hit like that, and still max him out near the last third of Act 2). This allowed my Hawke to still be a slave hater, AND still rival Fenris without being mean. Following the wiki, I also found the triggers for the rivalry points, during his personal dialogues. This meant I could choose freely my dialogue options the rest of the time, and use only certain aggro/snarky comments (or the "star" icon, when available) that would guarantee rival points. Role playing this rivalry became much more believable than I at first would have thought possible. I did have to wait till I was about a third of the way through Act 2, before I could do his Bitter Pill quest. Because I waited till I was maxed, I got to role play that as freely as I wished.
I don't always like to play this way, but since I never Rivaled him before, and wanted to do it without the glaring immersion breaking problems that can come up (unless you are wanting to play it as a douche...hehe), this was my best solution for it.
#51710
Posté 08 juillet 2012 - 07:50
Dwarva
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Am doing another playthrough and managed to get Fenris to 100% friendship by the end of act 1. It did take a few choices I didn't like making (telling Cullen I was with the templars, sending Fenyril to the Circle etc) but now I can make whatever choices I like for the rest of the game without his points suffering. I guess I'll RP it as her slowly coming round to the plight of the mages now that Bethany has been taken to the circle. But in all honesty it was mainly because I want Fenris to wub me.
But the absolute hardest thing is going to be that I want to do his companion quests LAST in act 2 so that I can do that, then immediately do his act 3 quest as soon as that starts. So I have as little time as possible between him leaving Hawke and getting back with her.
I've given this way too much thought lol...
But the absolute hardest thing is going to be that I want to do his companion quests LAST in act 2 so that I can do that, then immediately do his act 3 quest as soon as that starts. So I have as little time as possible between him leaving Hawke and getting back with her.
I've given this way too much thought lol...
#51711
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 08 juillet 2012 - 11:58
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I love Fenris, but he seems to be a difficult character to max friendship or rivalry point without meta-gaming like crazy or making choices the player doesn't agree with.
On the one hand, he's extremely anti-mage, which seems to be difficult to go along with for a lot of players. (Especially those who play mages.) On the other hand, he's extremely anti-slavery, which is easier to agree with/sympathize with for most players, but... Either way, role-playing more naturally means you can unwittingly get this balance of partial friendship/rivalry points, with both sides feeling difficult to max out.
It seems like... If you want to max out friendship, you feel like you have to be crueler to others (mages) than you would normally want to be. If you want to max out rivalry, you feel like you have to be crueler to him (Fenris) than you would normally want to be. Again, meta-gaming info helps, but constantly breaking character, making decisions and planning ahead before every quest or conversation just to get the results that the player wants... Such a headache.
FENRIS, WHY R U SO HARD TO PLEASE??!!
(Of course, if you play a character that geniunely supports templars, slavery and/or is not afraid to put him down in dialogue, then this does not apply to you. Based on my own experiences and those of many posters I've observed over the net, this seems to be a relatively common problem though.)
On the one hand, he's extremely anti-mage, which seems to be difficult to go along with for a lot of players. (Especially those who play mages.) On the other hand, he's extremely anti-slavery, which is easier to agree with/sympathize with for most players, but... Either way, role-playing more naturally means you can unwittingly get this balance of partial friendship/rivalry points, with both sides feeling difficult to max out.
It seems like... If you want to max out friendship, you feel like you have to be crueler to others (mages) than you would normally want to be. If you want to max out rivalry, you feel like you have to be crueler to him (Fenris) than you would normally want to be. Again, meta-gaming info helps, but constantly breaking character, making decisions and planning ahead before every quest or conversation just to get the results that the player wants... Such a headache.
FENRIS, WHY R U SO HARD TO PLEASE??!!
(Of course, if you play a character that geniunely supports templars, slavery and/or is not afraid to put him down in dialogue, then this does not apply to you. Based on my own experiences and those of many posters I've observed over the net, this seems to be a relatively common problem though.)
Modifié par Faerunner, 09 juillet 2012 - 12:00 .
#51712
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 12:16
CuriousArtemis
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Faerunner wrote...
It seems like... If you want to max out friendship, you feel like you have to be crueler to others (mages) than you would normally want to be. If you want to max out rivalry, you feel like you have to be crueler to him (Fenris) than you would normally want to be. Again, meta-gaming info helps, but constantly breaking character, making decisions and planning ahead before every quest or conversation just to get the results that the player wants... Such a headache.
This is all so very true, and the main reason (IMO) why the system needs to be seriously tweaked. I love that characters respond differently to the PC depending on what decisions are made. This is better than in ME where characters seem to be your buddy no matter what. (I've only played ME3 though). Plus I enjoy the fact that Hawke could have different personalities. I like that Hawke can be a kind and serious do-gooder, a loveable goof, or a no-nonsense bad ass. But you shouldn't have to be a jerk to the one you love just because you're a bad ass around pirates and smuglers and blood mages.
It's okay for Fenris to be annoyed when Hawke supports mages. But there should be an option to either persuade him at the time of the event or go to his house later and talk to him (potentially regaining friendship points). This allows for character growth. Fenris could still respond to Hawke differently if s/he consistently supports mages, but the player should no longer be forced to kill a certain character at the end of the game just because some silly personality meter wasn't maxed out either way. (I know it's not that rigid, but still.)
So in short, I like the personality differences for Hawke, but I think DA:O and ME have done friendship with companions better. And ME best of all; to be honest, I don't like constantly stressing about whether or not I'm pleasing the PC's companions. I like to see their reactions and see how the conversations may play differently, but I don't want to have to worry about losing that character or having to kill him/her.
But the people who rail about not being given enough "choices" in RPG games probably love this kind of stuff. They love it that if you make choice A (free mages) it results in choice B (have to fight Fenris). I guess I prefer the story aspect of the game (the writing, the characters, the relationships) more so than the series of choices being made.
#51713
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 12:17
MissRedZelda
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Honestly, they should go back to the whole Approve/disapprove system. Or at least tweak the friendship/rivalry thing. Though, one thing I didn't like in the latter was how you sometimes had to agree and say things you didn't agree with just so you could keep them, without using you Jedi Mind Trick persuading skills to convince them what you're doing is right.
#51714
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 01:20
CuriousArtemis
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MissRedZelda wrote...
Honestly, they should go back to the whole Approve/disapprove system. Or at least tweak the friendship/rivalry thing. Though, one thing I didn't like in the latter was how you sometimes had to agree and say things you didn't agree with just so you could keep them, without using you Jedi Mind Trick persuading skills to convince them what you're doing is right.
Companion: I PASSIONATELY DISAGREE WITH THIS DECISION!
Warden: *uses Persuade*
Companion: You know, you're totally right; what a fool I've been. Thank you, Warden.
What, I don't know what you're talking about; I thought it worked great
#51715
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 01:39
MissRedZelda
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motomotogirl wrote...
MissRedZelda wrote...
Honestly, they should go back to the whole Approve/disapprove system. Or at least tweak the friendship/rivalry thing. Though, one thing I didn't like in the latter was how you sometimes had to agree and say things you didn't agree with just so you could keep them, without using you Jedi Mind Trick persuading skills to convince them what you're doing is right.
Companion: I PASSIONATELY DISAGREE WITH THIS DECISION!
Warden: *uses Persuade*
Companion: You know, you're totally right; what a fool I've been. Thank you, Warden.
What, I don't know what you're talking about; I thought it worked great
LOL!
You just made my day, Moto.
#51716
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 01:45
PizzaThe Hutt
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I think they need to find a nice middle zone in between the Approve/dissaprove and the Friendship/Rivalry systems, while both are somewhat flawed systems(The latter more so) though they both are, in their own ways, pretty good.
As for the whole "Use Persuade, it's super effective!" thing, perhaps there could be a system where if something clashes with a companions moral code, than maybe the companion would just go, "Talk all you want, I'm still not going through with this"..
As for the whole "Use Persuade, it's super effective!" thing, perhaps there could be a system where if something clashes with a companions moral code, than maybe the companion would just go, "Talk all you want, I'm still not going through with this"..
#51717
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 06:28
dracuella
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I always thought it weird that despite what a companion said or felt about a quest, you could still take him/her along on said mission. Imagine getting a 'return a runaway slave to his master' and Fenris comes along? Nature's balance upset right there! I know that sometimes during the quest you're allowed to change your mind and alter the outcome but initially would Fenris want to join you on this quest? I say no. So perhaps it would be natural if with some quests you would have to switch companions as some would absolutely refuse to go. Hard to implement, I know, but..PizzaThe Hutt wrote...
I think they need to find a nice middle zone in between the Approve/dissaprove and the Friendship/Rivalry systems, while both are somewhat flawed systems(The latter more so) though they both are, in their own ways, pretty good.
As for the whole "Use Persuade, it's super effective!" thing, perhaps there could be a system where if something clashes with a companions moral code, than maybe the companion would just go, "Talk all you want, I'm still not going through with this"..
Modifié par dracuella, 09 juillet 2012 - 06:28 .
#51718
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 10:28
Dwarva
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^ I agree. AFAIK the only time a companion refused to help with anything was Sebastian saying no to going into the Fade? And having him with you when you agreed to do it netted some hefty rivalry points. And obviously Isabela leaving when you go into the Quanari compound but that's for different reasons...
I also agree it would have been interesting to have 'fish or cut bait' moments in certain quests for companions. When you go after Hadriana and choose the option to take Orana back to Kirkwall as a slave, Fenris would NEVER respect someone who did this. Never. He might be able to get over certain aspects of the mages etc but he (and Sebastian probably) should have outright left the group at that choice, going by what we know of them. I also think Sebastian would/should have left if Fenris was given back to Danarius. He'd never have stuck around while both slavery was advocated and his 'friend' was sent back to become a zombie.
I've never really considered it in as much depth before (mainly because I never make these choices, even as a **** Hawke) but they really are quite immersion breaking aren't they?
I also agree it would have been interesting to have 'fish or cut bait' moments in certain quests for companions. When you go after Hadriana and choose the option to take Orana back to Kirkwall as a slave, Fenris would NEVER respect someone who did this. Never. He might be able to get over certain aspects of the mages etc but he (and Sebastian probably) should have outright left the group at that choice, going by what we know of them. I also think Sebastian would/should have left if Fenris was given back to Danarius. He'd never have stuck around while both slavery was advocated and his 'friend' was sent back to become a zombie.
I've never really considered it in as much depth before (mainly because I never make these choices, even as a **** Hawke) but they really are quite immersion breaking aren't they?
#51719
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 12:00
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Staarbux wrote...
When you go after Hadriana and choose the option to take Orana back to Kirkwall as a slave, Fenris would NEVER respect someone who did this. Never. He might be able to get over certain aspects of the mages etc but he (and Sebastian probably) should have outright left the group at that choice, going by what we know of them.
You forget one thing here: Fenris needs Hawke to face Hadriana. He knows he has no chance on his own. As long as Hawke helps him with this, he is willing to swallow a lot from Hawke. I don't think that's immersion breaking. It's perfectly in character for Fenris. He desperately wants to gain his freedom. He is not with Hawke to make friends; that is something that comes later, depending on the Hawke.
#51720
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 12:14
Nilfalasiel
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renjility wrote...
You forget one thing here: Fenris needs Hawke to face Hadriana. He knows he has no chance on his own. As long as Hawke helps him with this, he is willing to swallow a lot from Hawke. I don't think that's immersion breaking. It's perfectly in character for Fenris. He desperately wants to gain his freedom. He is not with Hawke to make friends; that is something that comes later, depending on the Hawke.
Right, but in that case, once Hadriana is dealt with, I'd find it more plausible for Fenris to leave. The idea of Fenris sticking around with a pro-slaver Hawke once his issues have been dealt with is very immersion-breaking to me. Then again, you could argue that he'd stick around because he'd also need help against Danarius, but then, having seen that Hawke him/herself isn't above such practices, I can't imagine Fenris would still believe he/she would help him. In fact, a pro-slaver Hawke would probably just hand him over.
#51721
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 12:25
Dwarva
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Yes, sorry I didn't make it very clear. I didn't necessarily expect him to leave right there and then but there should have been consequences. Fenris helping her after what she did (especially if Hawke chose 'you can't blame magic for what happened' type dialogue after killing Hadriana) just seems so against his belief system.
#51722
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 01:21
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Nilfalasiel wrote...
renjility wrote...
You forget one thing here: Fenris needs Hawke to face Hadriana. He knows he has no chance on his own. As long as Hawke helps him with this, he is willing to swallow a lot from Hawke. I don't think that's immersion breaking. It's perfectly in character for Fenris. He desperately wants to gain his freedom. He is not with Hawke to make friends; that is something that comes later, depending on the Hawke.
Right, but in that case, once Hadriana is dealt with, I'd find it more plausible for Fenris to leave. The idea of Fenris sticking around with a pro-slaver Hawke once his issues have been dealt with is very immersion-breaking to me. Then again, you could argue that he'd stick around because he'd also need help against Danarius, but then, having seen that Hawke him/herself isn't above such practices, I can't imagine Fenris would still believe he/she would help him. In fact, a pro-slaver Hawke would probably just hand him over.
As you already pointed out yourself, Fenris' issues have not been dealt with once Hadriana is dead. Danarius is still out there, and he's the one who it's all about. Fenris doesn't know when Danarius will strike. We know he waits for three years to finally show up, but Fenris has no idea about that. It's possible Danarius would immediately seek revenge for the death of his apprentice. So I think Fenris might linger out of insecurity and fear, and that time simply passes by. His act 3 codex entry says he probably would have left indeed, if he not felt that he owed Hawke.
So there's the other reason. Even if Hawke is pro-slaver, he/she has helped him. Twice. And the second time Hawke was not even paid for it. He also says this in his second QB: "Six years ago I decided to stay with you because I felt like I owed you, but I also thought you could help me."
If Hawke refuses to help Fenris in act 2, he does leave. So he does have his breaking point, and that is when he sees Hawke is no longer of use for his ultimate goal: freedom (and revenge). Everything else he can swallow. He makes it known he does not like it, but he stays. Again, Fenris is not looking for a buddy. He needs someone who can fight to back him up. That he despises that person is of lesser importance.
When his issues are finally resolved, when Danarius is dead, then Fenris allows himself to choose for his own beliefs when Hawke sides with the mages and has failed to win Fenris' respect.
For the record: I do agree it's not very believable Fenris would romance a slaver-supporting Hawke. Then there is reason to question why the hell he would fall for Hawke in the first place. But when you leave that type of relationship out of the equation, it does make sense he stays with Hawke. That's how I see it anyway.
neonowls
#51723
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 01:46
Dwarva
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renjility wrote...
If Hawke refuses to help Fenris in act 2, he does leave. So he does have his breaking point, and that is when he sees Hawke is no longer of use for his ultimate goal: freedom (and revenge). Everything else he can swallow. He makes it known he does not like it, but he stays. Again, Fenris is not looking for a buddy. He needs someone who can fight to back him up. That he despises that person is of lesser importance.
When his issues are finally resolved, when Danarius is dead, then Fenris allows himself to choose for his own beliefs when Hawke sides with the mages and has failed to win Fenris' respect.
Hmm I admit I'd forgotten about this (mainly as I've never neglected to immediately react to his situation) and you do have a point. It seems if you rival him (again, something I don't do often...) he's definitely with you less as a colleague he trusts but as someone he needs to get him out of the situation he's in...
Definitely something to ponder...
#51724
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 10:38
AbsoluteApril
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question on Dragon Age feed about Fenris? Ooo what was the question? I'm not on FB
maybe I'm not following you? I was able to rivalmance Fenris with my diplo mage, she never used the snarky or aggressive options.
I did need help though as first PT got to 3rd act with Fenris right in the middle (no friend/rivaly) and I couldn't figure out why the romance didn't trigger.. thanks to Heidenreich for explaining to me it had to be rival or friend to get the romance - reloaded back to Pt 1 and got his rival up. She wrote a guide on how to rival Fenris to 50% in act 1
http://social.biowar...29/blog/209397/
motomotogirl wrote...
then they need to make it possible to become a rival WITHOUT being a tremendous dick in one-on-one conversations with the character.
maybe I'm not following you? I was able to rivalmance Fenris with my diplo mage, she never used the snarky or aggressive options.
I did need help though as first PT got to 3rd act with Fenris right in the middle (no friend/rivaly) and I couldn't figure out why the romance didn't trigger.. thanks to Heidenreich for explaining to me it had to be rival or friend to get the romance - reloaded back to Pt 1 and got his rival up. She wrote a guide on how to rival Fenris to 50% in act 1
http://social.biowar...29/blog/209397/
#51725
Posté 09 juillet 2012 - 10:56
CuriousArtemis
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AbsoluteApril wrote...
question on Dragon Age feed about Fenris? Ooo what was the question? I'm not on FBmotomotogirl wrote...
then they need to make it possible to become a rival WITHOUT being a tremendous dick in one-on-one conversations with the character.
maybe I'm not following you? I was able to rivalmance Fenris with my diplo mage, she never used the snarky or aggressive options.
I've never rivaled him
I was just going on what others were saying about the difficulties in rivaling him, and some (I think) said that you have to use the aggressive choices because the kind and snarky ones gave friendship points.
