55380 réponses à ce sujet

[Sealy]

motomotogirl wrote...

Amirit wrote...

It was more like "desired woman" then "ideal". In particular with Hadriana monolog he mentioned "she ridiculed me" (btw, "haunted my sleep" sounds very intriguing in this perspective). Thous women did not see him as a real man, yet he was one with all desires and wishes a man can have.

Er ... I don't think this was meant to imply that he went to bed having dirty thoughts about her.  But that her psychological torture continued even as he slept.  

^^ That. Agreeing with moto entirely. Lol.

Also, Aldien... if it sounded like I was trying to throw something back at you I wasn't, I was merely saying there is no "I don't see someone as gay" since there is no set characteristics for a gay/bi person. If it sounded agressive it was unconsciously done, tis' merely a sensitive topic, no one likes to feel like their romance preferance is less valid then someone elses because someone doesn't see how they can be with a male/female. I romance Fenris with a male all the time, but I know canonically he is bi and could easily be with a female. I don't understand how... eh, yah okay I can see where the aggressive tint comes from I'll drop it, it's an issue too close to my heart to argue it with anything less then a passion, which defaults to coming out as a argument. lol. I think I have to stop saying Hawkesexual though. It implys that in an individual playthrough he is gay or straight, which isn't true in absolutely everyones playthrough he is bisexual.

I don't mind Gaider having or stating his canon. It doesn't feel any different then somene on here stating their preference. (maybe a little more unf to it cause it's his baby), but I know that Gaider also wrote him to be romancable by both sexes and so even though he see's a rivaled male Hawke it isn't like he can't see a friended female too.


On to a less sensitive topic for me at least. Last night I was thinking about Leto. It's heartbreaking that we'll never get to know more, to me at least. I see in my head an elven woman with beautiful green eyes and black hair, watching her babies in between her duties, and a little Leto running around the garden with his sister... *sigh* damn you lack of Fenris backstory! I wonder if Fen is older or younger then Varania. Also, I wonder: When Fen looks at Varania and he says "I remember you, we used to run around our masters courtyard while our mother worked. You called me..." Do you think he just got that one flash of memory? Or, that his memeory just needed that little prompt to all the sudden rememeber everything he had ever known about Varania?

Amirit wrote...

Ok, it's official - my wording sucks. I'll try one more time though. And will state again - it's just a possibility, logical to me but probably inappropriate for others. And opinion, nothing else.

He _could_ have any dreams about her (sort of angry vengeance sex) but it's not the point, THAT was more like a joke. The point is - Fenris constantly saw around beautiful fem mages who would spit on him if ever notes his existence. Yet, they were the only noticeable women in his life. It's like when he heard word "woman" he pictured a fem mage. Nothing healthy in that behavior but it is possible and does not look strange to me (talk to any psychologist). Hence, romance with mage-Hawk looks very natural to me.

He was probably equally surrounded by female slaves. Though I sort of see your point about him being comfortable in a familiarity way to mages.

Modifié par Fleshdress, 01 août 2012 - 04:43 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Amirit wrote...

The point is - Fenris constantly saw around beautiful fem mages who would spit on him if ever notes his existence. Yet, they were the only noticeable women in his life. It's like when he heard word "woman" he pictured a fem mage.

But there are surely women in Tevinter who are: not mages, not beautiful, not human.  So that doesn't make any sense.

Plus Hadriana's a dog  That chin!!

Fleshdress wrote...

 I know that Gaider also wrote him to be romancable by both sexes and so even though he see's a rivaled male Hawke it isn't like he can't see a friended female too. 

  

Yes I think it would only be an issue if DG wrote Fenris as a LI for DudeHawke and was literally threatened by the other devs to make him also available to FemHawke.  And he was all, BUT I DON'T WANNA, and they were all, DO IT OR YOU'RE FIRED, and hence Fenris becomes available to FemHawe.

Also, think how we friendmance fans feel *sniffle* Does that mean our friendmances with Fenris are invalidated???

Fleshdress wrote...

Also, I wonder: When Fen looks at Varania and he says "I remember you, we used to run around our masters courtyard while our mother worked. You called me..." Do you think he just got that one flash of memory? Or, that his memeory just needed that little prompt to all the sudden rememeber everything he had ever known about Varania?

 

It always seemed to me like he was remembering a series of brief memories triggered by Varania's face and voice. Sudden hazy images of running through the grass with a little redheaded girl who was his sister, seeing his mother smiling over at them, etc.  And he speaks slowly, as if trying to pin the memories down, even still trying to remember his name, perhaps trying to "listen" to his mother or sister say it in his memories.

[PizzaThe Hutt]

motomotogirl wrote...

Geez, that second Hawke is MASSIVE *LOL* Also, the comic, Danarius in drag .... omg ... that is sooo wrong that sex with Hawke induces such things; and Fenris' poor face!! hahahahaha xD

I just did the Alone quest and when I saw danarius I thought that one of his main leisure activities was cross-dressing, I mean, watch how he walks!  He struts around like a sassy woman!  It's hilarious!

[Sealy]

Lol Moto, every time you post I am editing my posts to say a longer winded version of whatever you say... stop that.

I would like to believe that even after Varania left he retained those memories. Can we assume that everytime there is sexy times he gains back his memories and then loses them again? Or was that just a one time thing because of the _____ years of celibacy.

[aldien]

Fleshdress wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Amirit wrote...

It was more like "desired woman" then "ideal". In particular with Hadriana monolog he mentioned "she ridiculed me" (btw, "haunted my sleep" sounds very intriguing in this perspective). Thous women did not see him as a real man, yet he was one with all desires and wishes a man can have.

Er ... I don't think this was meant to imply that he went to bed having dirty thoughts about her.  But that her psychological torture continued even as he slept.  

^^ That. Agreeing with moto entirely. Lol.

Also, Aldien... if it sounded like I was trying to throw something back at you I wasn't, I was merely saying there is no "I don't see someone as gay" since there is no set characteristics for a gay/bi person. If it sounded agressive it was unconsciously done, tis' merely a sensitive topic, no one likes to feel like their romance preferance is less valid then someone elses because someone doesn't see how they can be with a male/female. I romance Fenris with a male all the time, but I know canonically he is bi and could easily be with a female. I don't understand how... eh, yah okay I can see where the aggressive tint comes from I'll drop it, it's an issue too close to my heart to argue it with anything less then a passion, which defaults to coming out as a argument. lol. I think I have to stop saying Hawkesexual though. It implys that in an individual playthrough he is gay or straight, which isn't true in absolutely everyones playthrough he is bisexual.

I don't mind Gaider having or stating his canon. It doesn't feel any different then somene on here stating their preference. (maybe a little more unf to it cause it's his baby), but I know that Gaider also wrote him to be romancable by both sexes and so even though he see's a rivaled male Hawke it isn't like he can't see a friended female too.


On to a less sensitive topic for me at least. Last night I was thinking about Leto. It's heartbreaking that we'll never get to know more, to me at least. I see in my head an elven woman with beautiful green eyes and black hair, watching her babies in between her duties, and a little Leto running around the garden with his sister... *sigh* damn you lack of Fenris backstory! I wonder if Fen is older or younger then Varania. Also, I wonder: When Fen looks at Varania and he says "I remember you, we used to run around our masters courtyard while our mother worked. You called me..." Do you think he just got that one flash of memory? Or, that his memeory just needed that little prompt to all the sudden rememeber everything he had ever known about Varania?

Amirit wrote...

Ok, it's official - my wording sucks. I'll try one more time though. And will state again - it's just a possibility, logical to me but probably inappropriate for others. And opinion, nothing else.

He _could_ have any dreams about her (sort of angry vengeance sex) but it's not the point, THAT was more like a joke. The point is - Fenris constantly saw around beautiful fem mages who would spit on him if ever notes his existence. Yet, they were the only noticeable women in his life. It's like when he heard word "woman" he pictured a fem mage. Nothing healthy in that behavior but it is possible and does not look strange to me (talk to any psychologist). Hence, romance with mage-Hawk looks very natural to me.

He was probably equally surrounded by female slaves. Though I sort of see your point about him being comfortable in a familiarity way to mages.

Fleshdress I'm not trying to argue with you. Seriously, I'm not.   I wasn't offended just annoyed. Actually, in another message you posted about fenris and cuddling, I was trying to take up for your preference.  *sighs* I don't know why it bothers me. It's stupid. It's a game.

I think I have been unfortunate to have been on parts of this forum and other forums where, usually men, will call him 'gay' (not a term I really like) and throw it at people like it is the worst insult to the gaming industry ever that they would make a bisexual character. There are men who absolutely hate that BW has been made with other people in mind besides themselves. What I guess I am fearful to see is for the game to then only be developed for a select few in mind. Because, let's face it, there are not many games out there that cater to females as well as this one.  Anyway, this is why I stopped coming to the forum for the most part. I get too passionate, then angry, then I cry because I feel stupid and then it just starts all over again. Anyway, sorry if it came across like I was angry. None of this is worth upsetting anyone over.

I think i prefered reading about hoodies to be quite honest. Nice, safe topic to drink morning tea over and read.

Modifié par aldien, 01 août 2012 - 05:05 .

[Sealy]

aldien wrote...

Fleshdress I'm not trying to argue with you. Seriously, I'm not.   I wasn't offended just annoyed. Actually, in another message you posted about fenris and cuddling, I was trying to take up for your preference.  *sighs* I don't know why it bothers me. It's stupid. It's a game.

I think I have been unfortunate to have been on parts of this forum and other forums where, usually men, will call him 'gay' (not a term I really like) and throw it at people like it is the worst insult to the gaming industry ever that they would make a bisexual character. There are men who absolutely hate that BW has been made with other people in mind besides themselves. What I guess I am fearful to see is for the game to then only be developed for a select few in mind. Because, let's face it, there are not many games out there that cater to females as well as this one.  Anyway, this is why I stopped coming to the forum for the most part. I get too passionate, then angry, then I cry because I feel stupid and then it just starts all over again. Anyway, sorry if it came across like I was angry. None of this is worth upsetting anyone over.

I think i prefered reading about hoodies to be quite honest. Nice, safe topic to drink morning tea over and read.

Lol, no worries. I am a robot when it comes to online stuff, unless it is capital letter rants I really just read everything as fairly light hearted. I know others don't though so I don't mind being argued with, I know people are more sensitive and my sarcastic nature does not translate well online. I'll keep my debates for the other threads and my whimsy for here!

[aldien]

Fleshdress wrote...

aldien wrote...

Fleshdress I'm not trying to argue with you. Seriously, I'm not.   I wasn't offended just annoyed. Actually, in another message you posted about fenris and cuddling, I was trying to take up for your preference.  *sighs* I don't know why it bothers me. It's stupid. It's a game.

I think I have been unfortunate to have been on parts of this forum and other forums where, usually men, will call him 'gay' (not a term I really like) and throw it at people like it is the worst insult to the gaming industry ever that they would make a bisexual character. There are men who absolutely hate that BW has been made with other people in mind besides themselves. What I guess I am fearful to see is for the game to then only be developed for a select few in mind. Because, let's face it, there are not many games out there that cater to females as well as this one.  Anyway, this is why I stopped coming to the forum for the most part. I get too passionate, then angry, then I cry because I feel stupid and then it just starts all over again. Anyway, sorry if it came across like I was angry. None of this is worth upsetting anyone over.

I think i prefered reading about hoodies to be quite honest. Nice, safe topic to drink morning tea over and read.

Lol, no worries. I am a robot when it comes to online stuff, unless it is capital letter rants I really just read everything as fairly light hearted. I know others don't though so I don't mind being argued with, I know people are more sensitive and my sarcastic nature does not translate well online. I'll keep my debates for the other threads and my whimsy for here!

We used to have quite a few debates on here. This particular one never goes well. It definitely doesn't go well for the devs. Hopefully, something less hostile will pop up. Besides, you cannot talk about Fenris in a traditional role with Hawke on this particular forum especially if it's with children. It's a known fact, one I tend to ignore and then get reminded of again and again. I guess whimsy will do. Back to shadow ninja mode.

Modifié par aldien, 01 août 2012 - 05:58 .

[Dutchess]

PizzaThe Hutt wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Geez, that second Hawke is MASSIVE *LOL* Also, the comic, Danarius in drag .... omg ... that is sooo wrong that sex with Hawke induces such things; and Fenris' poor face!! hahahahaha xD

I just did the Alone quest and when I saw danarius I thought that one of his main leisure activities was cross-dressing, I mean, watch how he walks!  He struts around like a sassy woman!  It's hilarious!

The way Fenris looked in that doggy suit actually cracked me up the most. Sorry for ruining your fantasies, aldien!

[aldien]

renjility wrote...

PizzaThe Hutt wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Geez, that second Hawke is MASSIVE *LOL* Also, the comic, Danarius in drag .... omg ... that is sooo wrong that sex with Hawke induces such things; and Fenris' poor face!! hahahahaha xD

I just did the Alone quest and when I saw danarius I thought that one of his main leisure activities was cross-dressing, I mean, watch how he walks!  He struts around like a sassy woman!  It's hilarious!

The way Fenris looked in that doggy suit actually cracked me up the most. Sorry for ruining your fantasies, aldien!

Shhhhh Ren, I'm supposed to be shadow ninjaing... And you did and now I'm sad because I see Danarius's hairy legs instead of Fenris flustered face.

[Sealy]

renjility wrote...

PizzaThe Hutt wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

Geez, that second Hawke is MASSIVE *LOL* Also, the comic, Danarius in drag .... omg ... that is sooo wrong that sex with Hawke induces such things; and Fenris' poor face!! hahahahaha xD

I just did the Alone quest and when I saw danarius I thought that one of his main leisure activities was cross-dressing, I mean, watch how he walks!  He struts around like a sassy woman!  It's hilarious!

The way Fenris looked in that doggy suit actually cracked me up the most. Sorry for ruining your fantasies, aldien!

You have a fic! With a pairing I like! How did I miss this all these years? (this year?)
 
I agree Fenris in the doggie suit with that exasperated expression. So funny. His squished cheek in Aimos... D'awww (Oops apparently my memory supplied a squished cheek) Well it was cute in my head!

Modifié par Fleshdress, 01 août 2012 - 08:36 .

[Dutchess]

Fleshdress wrote...

You have a fic! With a pairing I like! How did I miss this all these years? (this year?)
 
I agree Fenris in the doggie suit with that exasperated expression. So funny. His squished cheek in Aimos... D'awww (Oops apparently my memory supplied a squished cheek) Well it was cute in my head!

You´ve started reading my fic? Thank you! And it hasn't been out for years, don't worry, haha. I really need to write again, last update has been a while.


We don't have a Fenris on this page yet.


millibayley 

[MissRedZelda]

That Fenris picture in gorgeous. Fenris does have very green eyes, doesn't he?

You know, I've noticed something with the Fenris pairings. It's very surprising that the slash fans of him far outnumber the slash fans for Anders - even though Anders seems far more bi to me than Fenris does. I've always see him as straight, probably because of the fact that he hooks up with Isabela if you don't hook up with him or Izzie.

And it's not because I don't like slash. I don't hate it, in fact. I would have much preffered it if there had been some exclusively gay or lesbian characters in the game (like with Cortez and Traner in ME3). It just REALLY detest the loud, vocal, and rabid yaoi fangirls who will outright accuse you of being homophobic if you say you don't like the same pairing as you. It's happened to me too, I told them that my canon pairing is my F!Hawke and Fenris, and the next thing they called me a homophobic ****.

Can't we all just get along? :-(

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 02 août 2012 - 05:59 .

[Sealy]

MissRedZelda wrote...

That Fenris picture in gorgeous. Fenris does have very green eyes, doesn't he?

You know, I've noticed something with the Fenris pairings. It's very surprising that the slash fans of him far outnumber the slash fans for Anders - even though Anders seems far more bi to me than Fenris does. I've always see him as straight, probably because of the fact that he hooks up with Isabela if you don't hook up with him or Izzie.

And it's not because I don't like slash. I don't hate it, in fact. I would have much preffered it if there had been some exclusively gay or lesbian characters in the game (like with Cortez and Traner in ME3). It just REALLY detest the loud, vocal, and rabid yaoi fangirls who will outright accuse you of being homophobic if you say you don't like the same pairing as you. It's happened to me too, I told them that my canon pairing is my F!Hawke and Fenris, and the next thing they called me a homophobic ****.

Can't we all just get along? :-(

But, he isn't straight... he's bisexual. He could care less (as much as pixels can care) what genitalia Hawke or Isabela have. That is the comment that gets me up in arms, you can say you see him as straight all you want but it makes it sound like (even if that isn't your intention) you don't want to accept the reality that if my Hawke got up and walked into your game Fen would be equally attracted to him. When people say they can only see him (Or anyone) as straight or gay it  makes them sound like the thought of him hooking up with a male/female in a land where their Hawke doesn't exsist shouldn't be possible. which feels like an attack on your romance. *shrug* In not one of my playthroughs have I ever thought that Fenris couldn't hook up happily with Isabela or any other female, Or maybe a different male if my Hawke didn't exsist. (In fact I have this plot bunny where a femaleHawke/Anders pairing take refuge with Fenris/Templar partner/boyfriend some time after the Kirkwall debacle that is eating my brain but...tangent, lost it) It drives me a little crazy when people imply that in their mind my Hawke wouldn't even make Fen blink twice just cause he has a c**k. 

Also I don't think your homophobic... but I do like some yaoi (some), and I can be rabid. 

I vote yes on getting along! Unless you disagree with me, then I vote no.   

[Ghost_Nappa]

I jst want to say thisdue to ll the m/m stuff...when you say yaoi it doesn't really say anything relative to same sex with mean. It's actually some weird abritary abbreviation in Japanese to something entirely different. I just prefer hearing the word 'slash' cause thats really up the alley of what your thinking.

Then again I noticed a weird trend that girls like yaoi, while actually gay men prefer slash....I'm not kidding on that or starting a flame war. I mean I honestly spent the night with a gay friend searching up articles to this and art for comparison....which in retrospect I think we helped ourselves to n early paper theme to work through our clas english class this semester.

Right better add something for Fenris on here

[aldien]

Fleshdress wrote...

MissRedZelda wrote...

That Fenris picture in gorgeous. Fenris does have very green eyes, doesn't he?

You know, I've noticed something with the Fenris pairings. It's very surprising that the slash fans of him far outnumber the slash fans for Anders - even though Anders seems far more bi to me than Fenris does. I've always see him as straight, probably because of the fact that he hooks up with Isabela if you don't hook up with him or Izzie.

And it's not because I don't like slash. I don't hate it, in fact. I would have much preffered it if there had been some exclusively gay or lesbian characters in the game (like with Cortez and Traner in ME3). It just REALLY detest the loud, vocal, and rabid yaoi fangirls who will outright accuse you of being homophobic if you say you don't like the same pairing as you. It's happened to me too, I told them that my canon pairing is my F!Hawke and Fenris, and the next thing they called me a homophobic ****.

Can't we all just get along? :-(

But, he isn't straight... he's bisexual. He could care less (as much as pixels can care) what genitalia Hawke or Isabela have. That is the comment that gets me up in arms, you can say you see him as straight all you want but it makes it sound like (even if that isn't your intention) you don't want to accept the reality that if my Hawke got up and walked into your game Fen would be equally attracted to him. When people say they can only see him (Or anyone) as straight or gay it  makes them sound like the thought of him hooking up with a male/female in a land where their Hawke doesn't exsist shouldn't be possible. which feels like an attack on your romance. *shrug* In not one of my playthroughs have I ever thought that Fenris couldn't hook up happily with Isabela or any other female, Or maybe a different male if my Hawke didn't exsist. (In fact I have this plot bunny where a femaleHawke/Anders pairing take refuge with Fenris/Templar partner/boyfriend some time after the Kirkwall debacle that is eating my brain but...tangent, lost it) It drives me a little crazy when people imply that in their mind my Hawke wouldn't even make Fen blink twice just cause he has a c**k. 

Also I don't think your homophobic... but I do like some yaoi (some), and I can be rabid. 

I vote yes on getting along! Unless you disagree with me, then I vote no.   

Maker's breath. This morning starts with a tiff with Harle and now I can't get away from the sexual preference debate.

But, he isn't straight... he's bisexual

On any given playthrough, because you can't play Hawke as a male and female at the same time, he is not bisexual. If you play as a female Hawke he can be an LI, if not, he hooks up with Isabela, so in that playthrough I'd say he is het. If you play as MHawke then the scenario is bisexual. Not everyone plays the game as MHawke. I think that is where quite a bit of the confusion comes from with Fenris's sexual orientation in the game.

Anders however,  talks about Karl being his first during a MHawke playthrough. He can be an LI, but he never has a relationship with a woman in that playthrough. So, I see Anders as being more bisexual if we are taking the two different playthroughs into account.


When people say they can only see him (Or anyone) as straight or gay it 
makes them sound like the thought of him hooking up with a male/female
in a land where their Hawke doesn't exsist shouldn't be possible. which
feels like an attack on your romance. *shrug* In not one of my
playthroughs have I ever thought that Fenris couldn't hook up happily
with Isabela or any other female, Or maybe a different male if my Hawke
didn't exsist.

You say that, but yesterday you were quick to point out what David Gaider had in mind for Fenris and then added you liked him homosexual.

The thing is, I don't think people are trying to be exclusive, in that they are trying to place what they like on someone else when they say: I can only see. They mean them, well at least I do when I say it. I mean only me not you. For me, when I play, I see Fenris one way because that suits me. I don't expect anyone else to like it. I also don't feel like I have to like your choice out of some need for the whole thing to be fair. No, I don't see him homosexual, however I do see other characters that way. People have a right to not have to always think in terms of male and female. Personally, it makes my head hurt to always have to think about everyone at once.


Ghost! ROFLMAO!!!!!! at that picture. They definitely need an ugly meter in DA. Actually, that scenario reminded me of something I did in college. o_O

Modifié par aldien, 02 août 2012 - 01:24 .

[Xilizhra]

I'm pretty sure it's been said by Bioware that all love interests in DA2 are officially bisexual.

[aldien]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm pretty sure it's been said by Bioware that all love interests in DA2 are officially bisexual.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of the game only, as if I had never come on this blasted forum in the first place. If you just play the game without BW's statement, that is what I see. It's what many people see especially because of Isabela. Now, if those same people come here they would be told otherwise, but in the end, it still looks the same in the game.

[Amirit]

aldien wrote...

The thing is, I don't think people are trying to be exclusive, in that they are trying to place what they like on someone else when they say: I can only see. They mean them, well at least I do when I say it. I mean only me not you. For me, when I play, I see Fenris one way because that suits me. I don't expect anyone else to like it. I also don't feel like I have to like your choice out of some need for the whole thing to be fair. No, I don't see him homosexual, however I do see other characters that way. People have a right to not have to always think in terms of male and female. Personally, it makes my head hurt to always have to think about everyone at once.

I love you! Is there any way to add some positive reputation or something to your account? 

For me the funnies thing is that people blame others for "exclusiveness" yet immediately add their very exclusive vision of the situation in the very same sentence. How can that coexist in one had will be a forever miracle to me. 

[aldien]

Amirit wrote...

aldien wrote...

The thing is, I don't think people are trying to be exclusive, in that they are trying to place what they like on someone else when they say: I can only see. They mean them, well at least I do when I say it. I mean only me not you. For me, when I play, I see Fenris one way because that suits me. I don't expect anyone else to like it. I also don't feel like I have to like your choice out of some need for the whole thing to be fair. No, I don't see him homosexual, however I do see other characters that way. People have a right to not have to always think in terms of male and female. Personally, it makes my head hurt to always have to think about everyone at once.

I love you! Is there any way to add some positive reputation or something to your account? 

For me the funnies thing is that people blame others for "exclusiveness" yet immediately add their very exclusive vision of the situation in the very same sentence. How can that coexist in one had will be a forever miracle to me. 

 Well you would be the first to say that on here. I'm very good at making people angry or uncomfortable. Not so great at having any of them like me.

I think people are extremely passionate about their choices and the choices they make in the game. Sometimes, it's hard to see past preference. I'm sure I 've added my exclusive vision a few times. However, I refuse to stay silent when someone does it to me or anyone else. And some people are very tricksy about how they do it too.  *shrugs* that usually makes me the total cow on here. I argue too much.

Modifié par aldien, 02 août 2012 - 02:25 .

[Amirit]

Believe me, you are no alone. And it's so nice to see someone saying the same thing I would, but in a proper way and more convincing.

[Dwarva]

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

Wow Fenris seriously looks like GE in that first panel! :happy:

[AbsoluteApril]

that comic always cracks me up

Staarbux wrote...
Wow Fenris seriously looks like GE in that first panel! :happy:

oo he does huh?

**

Normally I'm not a big fan of 'slash' (yaoi? isn't that similar except the men are drawn young or feminine looking?  yeah I have no idea...)  ALTHOUGH Coffee Black was pretty *hot*. So on that note, I bring you some 'slash' NSFW DA pics..
this one is part of a comic, if you've missed it, check it out.
http://elfkin.devian...age-4-317067447

here's another NSFW slash DA find
http://the13thblackc...llery/#/d59ddix

Have a great day all!

[Sealy]

aldien wrote...


Maker's breath. This morning starts with a tiff with Harle and now I can't get away from the sexual preference debate.

But, he isn't straight... he's bisexual

On any given playthrough, because you can't play Hawke as a male and female at the same time, he is not bisexual. If you play as a female Hawke he can be an LI, if not, he hooks up with Isabela, so in that playthrough I'd say he is het. If you play as MHawke then the scenario is bisexual. Not everyone plays the game as MHawke. I think that is where quite a bit of the confusion comes from with Fenris's sexual orientation in the game.

This is extremely rare but because I don't think this is an opinion I am gonna come right out and say it. You're wrong.

He's bisexual in everyones playthrough, Yours, mine, Gaiders, amirite, Harle's and everyone elses. He doesn't hook up with Isabela because she has breasts and a vagina, he hooks up with her cause she hit's on him and he probably is deeply attracted to how she is a literal embodiment of freedom.(<< though thats just a guess)

In a real life situation if you met a handsome man and start seeing him, then you find out he used to have a boyfriend, or that although he only been with females he wouldn't mind sleeping with a male you can't just pretend he is straight cause he is with a female right now. Thats not who he is and is also where the slight incline towards homophobia begins. He is Bisexual, no matter who he hooks up with during the course of the game because even if he can't remember or even if it hasn't happened yet he has the potential to canonically hook up with a male. If you can't handle thinking in a playthrough "Man, Fenris would equeally be attracted to my Hawke if I gave her outdoor plumbing", then it's probably, I reiterate probably because the thought of him being capable of being sexually intimate with a male is a "turn off" for you. Hence people getting upset and implying homophobia.  

Anders however,  talks about Karl being his first during a MHawke playthrough. He can be an LI, but he never has a relationship with a woman in that playthrough. So, I see Anders as being more bisexual if we are taking the two different playthroughs into account.

Anders doesn't make a move on male wardens in awakenings and never even hints at wanting males during awakening, that doesn't mean he is straight until he gets to DA2, it just means it's a subject that never came up. People are not apt to state their sexuality to someone they just met. When we meet Zevran in DA2 if your Hawke doesn't flirt with him he will run off for bush sex with Isabela too, this doesn't make him any less bisexual, it just means he'll take whats available.

When people say they can only see him (Or anyone) as straight or gay it 
makes them sound like the thought of him hooking up with a male/female
in a land where their Hawke doesn't exsist shouldn't be possible. which
feels like an attack on your romance. *shrug* In not one of my
playthroughs have I ever thought that Fenris couldn't hook up happily
with Isabela or any other female, Or maybe a different male if my Hawke
didn't exsist.

You say that, but yesterday you were quick to point out what David Gaider had in mind for Fenris and then added you liked him homosexual.

The thing is, I don't think people are trying to be exclusive, in that they are trying to place what they like on someone else when they say: I can only see. They mean them, well at least I do when I say it. I mean only me not you. For me, when I play, I see Fenris one way because that suits me. I don't expect anyone else to like it. I also don't feel like I have to like your choice out of some need for the whole thing to be fair. No, I don't see him homosexual, however I do see other characters that way. People have a right to not have to always think in terms of male and female. Personally, it makes my head hurt to always have to think about everyone at once.

My quote from yesterday:

Fleshdress wrote...

Awww I can totally see Fen as homosexual, no matter the gender you are he tends to get a bit flirty and smoulder-y. Fen is definitly in my opinion not interested in limiting who he can have. Plus Gaider said he wrote Fenris with a male rivalmance in mind. So I dunno. Tbh, I have never seen any of the characters as either straight or Gay, I see them all as Hawkesexual.

Poor wording for a moment but quickly followed by how I see him with both sexes so I think I shall forgive my saying homosexual instead of saying he is bisexual.
 
I play him with a male, I don't play him gay. I don't get to make up his sexuality, it already is there. I could pretend he is just gay I suppose since in all my playthroughs he tells Isabela to back off, but I know if someone wanted to pretend some part of me didn't exsist, just cause they don't like to think about it, I wouldn't find that person worth being with.

I said Gaider wrote him with a male romance in mind to back up the fact that he -in the mind of the man who created him- is very much so-ly capable of hooking up with either sex, not to say it is a more canon pairing, (that would be awkward of me cause I prefer the friendmance.)

As to the bolded portion: Good, I am glad you don't see him as homosexual, he isn't, he is bisexual.

Ghost! ROFLMAO!!!!!! at that picture. They definitely need an ugly meter in DA. Actually, that scenario reminded me of something I did in college. o_O

 Ohh I wish my photobucket worked cause there is this adorable pic where Akiva and two other Hawkes are sitting with that Hawke well he says he slept with Fenris too, the look of horror on their face. Damn you photobucket! Also, I will change it from I like yaoi, to I like slash, cause I really don't like those young looking males... I thought they were the same thing!

Modifié par Fleshdress, 02 août 2012 - 05:15 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

I jst want to say thisdue to ll the m/m stuff...when you say yaoi it doesn't really say anything relative to same sex with mean. It's actually some weird abritary abbreviation in Japanese to something entirely different. I just prefer hearing the word 'slash' cause thats really up the alley of what your thinking.

Then again I noticed a weird trend that girls like yaoi, while actually gay men prefer slash....I'm not kidding on that or starting a flame war. I mean I honestly spent the night with a gay friend searching up articles to this and art for comparison....which in retrospect I think we helped ourselves to n early paper theme to work through our clas english class this semester.

Well yaoi is a genre created by women (sometime in the 70s, I believe) and written purposefully for women, so this may be why it appeals to women more than men.  There is m/m romance written for men in Japan; it's called gei comi (gay comics) or bara.  Bara tends to have more muscular men and doesn't always have the seme/uke (top/bottom) relationship dynamic.

The term "yaoi" has mostly been replaced by BL (boy's love) these days.  Since it's created for women, it tends to feature characters that are softer and more attractive.  The seme/uke relationship is a staple.  However, that doesn't mean there aren't many talented BL mangaka who write about very realistic relationships between men, and they often include serious issues in their stories, such as homophobia and how the characters have to deal with these issues in order to stay together.  Fumi Yoshinaga is a great example, but, there are many.  

Nevertheless, there are certainly men who enjoy BL and women who enjoy bara.

As for Anders or Fenris being more attractive to BL fans, I don't know.  My DudeHawke romances both guys. Since BL fans often like to assign one character as "seme" and one as "uke," Hawke x Fenris MAY appeal to them more since Hawke certainly fits the happy-go-lucky heroic seme type, and Fenris is absolutely the broody tsundere uke.  But I've met a BL fan who prefers Fenris x Hawke to Hawke x Fenris, so this (of course) isn't true for all BL fans.  And many BL fans prefer sekes (couples who switch) instead of semes and ukes.  And, again, many, many BL fans are indeed male, so none of these generalizations are true all of the time.

If you find it hard to imagine the other gender Hawke romancing "your" version of Fenris, I think that is obviously all right.  We all have our OTPs.  My OTP is DudeHawke x Fenris; I really can't imagine Fenris with a female Hawke.  But I'm not going to come here and assert that Fenris is GAY GAY GAY.  He's gay in my game (not bi).  That's why it's so awesome that the characters are Hawkesexual in this game.  He's gay in mine; he's straight in yours; he's bi in hers. It's a role-playing game, so ... that sort of player projection is par for the course.

FYI The term "homosexual" is pretty dated and might perhaps even be mildly offensive (think of an old white man who still uses the term "******" or "colored person").  "Gay man" and "lesbian" are the proper terms nowadays

P.S. Had no internet at my house all morning and am at the library now, just now sending this ... hope this conversation is not three pages back now xD

[Ghost_Nappa]

motomotogirl wrote...

Ghost_Nappa wrote...

I jst want to say thisdue to ll the m/m stuff...when you say yaoi it doesn't really say anything relative to same sex with mean. It's actually some weird abritary abbreviation in Japanese to something entirely different. I just prefer hearing the word 'slash' cause thats really up the alley of what your thinking.

Then again I noticed a weird trend that girls like yaoi, while actually gay men prefer slash....I'm not kidding on that or starting a flame war. I mean I honestly spent the night with a gay friend searching up articles to this and art for comparison....which in retrospect I think we helped ourselves to n early paper theme to work through our clas english class this semester.

Well yaoi is a genre created by women (sometime in the 70s, I believe) and written purposefully for women, so this may be why it appeals to women more than men.  There is m/m romance written for men in Japan; it's called gei comi (gay comics) or bara.  Bara tends to have more muscular men and doesn't always have the seme/uke (top/bottom) relationship dynamic.

The term "yaoi" has mostly been replaced by BL (boy's love) these days.  Since it's created for women, it tends to feature characters that are softer and more attractive.  The seme/uke relationship is a staple.  However, that doesn't mean there aren't many talented BL mangaka who write about very realistic relationships between men, and they often include serious issues in their stories, such as homophobia and how the characters have to deal with these issues in order to stay together.  Fumi Yoshinaga is a great example, but, there are many.  

Nevertheless, there are certainly men who enjoy BL and women who enjoy bara.

As for Anders or Fenris being more attractive to BL fans, I don't know.  My DudeHawke romances both guys. Since BL fans often like to assign one character as "seme" and one as "uke," Hawke x Fenris MAY appeal to them more since Hawke certainly fits the happy-go-lucky heroic seme type, and Fenris is absolutely the broody tsundere uke.  But I've met a BL fan who prefers Fenris x Hawke to Hawke x Fenris, so this (of course) isn't true for all BL fans.  And many BL fans prefer sekes (couples who switch) instead of semes and ukes.  And, again, many, many BL fans are indeed male, so none of these generalizations are true all of the time.

If you find it hard to imagine the other gender Hawke romancing "your" version of Fenris, I think that is obviously all right.  We all have our OTPs.  My OTP is DudeHawke x Fenris; I really can't imagine Fenris with a female Hawke.  But I'm not going to come here and assert that Fenris is GAY GAY GAY.  He's gay in my game (not bi).  That's why it's so awesome that the characters are Hawkesexual in this game.  He's gay in mine; he's straight in yours; he's bi in hers. It's a role-playing game, so ... that sort of player projection is par for the course.

FYI The term "homosexual" is pretty dated and might perhaps even be mildly offensive (think of an old white man who still uses the term "******" or "colored person").  "Gay man" and "lesbian" are the proper terms nowadays

P.S. Had no internet at my house all morning and am at the library now, just now sending this ... hope this conversation is not three pages back now xD

First off moto no where do I even write, hint or say I have "issues" with a male hawke romacing "my" fenris.
If anything I wanted to point out my take on how sadly a majority of women I meet who aren't into man/man are mostly there for the idealized appeal of hot men butt sex for the sake of watching it like porn. Rarely do I find stories, even the ones geared more toward gay men and drawn by them, show men who are normal in appearence.

Its just like seeing a sexualized female in video games, just because it appeals to the sex sell tatic, doesnt mean it will appeal to me or gain any respect for that character. (granted until this is proven wise with personality and backgroundstory)

Also me using the term homosexual isnt really considered a slur unless I am using it out of context or in a subject where I am literally belittling someone. Just like if you use the term nergo when you could of just left it as "a slur." When I get slapped by one of my friends for calling them homosexual or ****** instead of lesbain or gay, then I'll decide not to say it out of curtesy for them. End of subject.

Modifié par Ghost_Nappa, 02 août 2012 - 07:15 .