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[aldien]

I'm doing this in two posts. People got happy with the typing

One word: Oghren o_O

The game box should come with a disclaimer because of that dwarf, Warning: brain impairment probable. It's as if Bartrand accompanied me into a new DA game

Oghren: Well fart me a lullabye

Bartrand: Color me astounded

Poor Varric.

Also, I had the misfortunate of installing a mod that failed to mention that if you accidently take off armor while switching it for another you will see a naked dwarf and a part of his body that defies gravity *convulses* But seeing Alistair naked was worth it. I think o_O

Do you meet Iona if you do not play as Cousland?

Harle said: well, I can say that I definitely don't worry about Fenris not being able to say no to Hawke! 

I second that! I'm not making light of what happened to Iona, but the very thought of Fenris not being able to say no to Hawke makes me giggle a bit. (Thanks for denoting the spoiler part Harle.) That is one thing I love about  Fenris. He has true and absolute freedom after Danarius is dead, and even when he is still being chased, he takes nothing from no one. What is sad is that he has had to endure such a traumatic life to gain a freedom that other elves will never really have. :/  Viva la Revolution!

After what I've seen of DAO, I'd say there is a lot less of everything in DA2. Focus seems to purely be on Hawke's predictament and the templar/mage conflict, especially blood mages. But the racism, even in a smaller dose is still there for the elves :/

And of course, DA:O has the absolute kicker in Denerim that I probably shouldn't mention here because it's a point that I'd hate to spoil Aldien for. 

What a tease! But thank you for not mentioning it. I've been very careful to watch what I read.

(Also, despite how much of a jerk Seneschal Bran is, I can never dislike him after Mark of the Assassin, because the dude had the guts to bring a transgender elven prostitute to THE social event of the year, as his date.  **** yeah Bran.  XD  I would have liked to have told Prosper where he could stick his "manservant" assumption about Fenris, dammit . . .)

You know what shocked me the most about that? Before MoTA Leandra (if you play as FHawke) mentions the senechal has a son and she's obviously trying to set that relationship in motion. So after meeting Bran, I had him pegged for just another stuffy noble until MoTA. Bran has balls. He really does. He told the Quanari to take off their swords, speaks his mind to Hawke even after Hawke becomes the Champion, and I can just see him standing in the Viscount's Keep while the Arishok is threatening the nobles, looking bored, wondering when the whole ordeal is going to be over The guy cracks me up. He, Jethan and Serendipity should be companions in DA3. That would be the best group ever.

I would have liked to have told Prosper where he could stick his "manservant" assumption about Fenris, dammit . . .)
 That is one of the instances when I wish my Hawke could have said something. The hell with Talis! Prosper just insulted Fenris. Kick his ass!


Fae, Aveline has a weird moral compass. It doesn't seem to have rhyme and reason at times. She seems to dismiss everything unless it effects her, her friends, the guard. I don't think she sees past those things. She lives in an Aveline bubble o_O One thing I will say in Aveline's defense is that she does help Fenris. It's not great or ideal by any means, but she truly does keep the senechal off of his back and a roof over his head. I think it is even believable, since Donnic and Fenris are friends that she may have had a patrol set up to frequent the mansion in case of trouble coming Fenris's way. She would definitely do that if Hawke secretely asked, which my Hawke would Psst Aveline don't tell him or he will fuss at me for a week. (yep can see that conversation taking place) She's a complex character, I think, compared to some of the other companions. Unfortunately, yes she too has a very narrow understanding of elves.

Fae said: "Danarius wants to strip the flesh from my bones." "It seems like a waste of a perfectly handsome elf." Yes, because elves exist to be playthings to humans, not individuals with their own lives who want to go on existing for their own reasons. And yes, he is an "elf" and not a "person," you racist hussy.)

ROFLMAO! Oh Fae I do love it when you get fired up. I always hated that line too. It's so very misplaced and insensitive considering the circumstances at the time. Why didn't Hawke just say man?

Fae said: . Headcanon is one thing, but the "canon" content of the game doesn't quite convince me.

There it is. I think people become somewhat immune to the actual canon game content after a couple of playthroughs. Because I have to say, for someone who just picked this game up and started playing it, I immediately labelled Cousland racist after the kitchen incident with the elves. She didn't speak up and if you don't speak up when something that insulting is said, especially in your own home, then it looks as if you agree with the treatment or at least have no problem with it. The whole damn family annoys me. I think I like Orlesian nobility better. More comedic value.

I don't know if Anders is racist, but he hates Fenris because I think he sees Fenris as one of the biggest threats to his plans. Fenris could sway Hawke, Anders knows this so I think he tries to paint him in an unfavorable light.

Modifié par aldien, 16 août 2012 - 03:49 .

[Dutchess]

aldien wrote...

Bah!

Problem?



A new Fenris piccie by aimo.

[aldien]

I'm writing books. I really want good mojo back on thread. But... I have to argue. Why do I do it??? Why??????????? Can't we just all bask in the love of Fenris?

[Amirit]

Was always wondering who invented that strange book-like piece of armor in the front and for what purpose?

[aldien]

Nice piccie Ren

You mean his breastplate Amirit?


I spy something that begins with G  *giggles head off*

Sorry I'm playing the game and replying when I get a chance.

Staarbux said: David Gaider just tweeted "Hahahaha. Okay, sometimes the BSN still manages to be amusing. :)"

Any idea what's happened now? xD


Depends on how he meant it. I wish there was a sarcastic button for messaging Big brother is always watching o_O He may have actually found something humorous or someone has made some outlandish demand, like: where's DA3? They had it on pre-order at Amazon and I haven't received it yet. I tend to stay away from the rest of the forum. It's big and scary and usually infuriating.

dracuella  said: I always thought it was the Tevinter sentiment that elves, before
anything else, are used as slaves that has rubbed off on Fenris. He may
not want to admit it but I always found his unfounded hatred of other
elves very arrogant. It varies depending on which scene he he's in,
spouting his hatred for his free city elven brethren. Sometimes I feel
that while I disagree, I do see his point, taking his background into
consideration. I mean it's indeed very sad to see the elves remain in
poverty and sad conditions when they could do anything with their
freedom. I think Fenris' outrage comes from him being jealous of their
freedom and angry that they don't appreciate it. I mean, while they're
not exactly living the greatest lives, they're free and could
potentially move away from the cities if they wanted. Isn't that
basically what Fenris desires? 

I've found Fenris to be a bit of snob on occasion, but not just concerning other elves. He's intelligent and extremely opinionated and he does not readily accept failure. I think that is why he finds it so hard to forgive his past.

The only reason Fenris is free is because of his markings and the opportunity presented itself. Without those markings he would still be enslaved in my opinion.

What can city elves really do with their freedom? The thing is, in order to change their lives there has to be opportunity. You need an education, equal rights, acceptance, a society that actively tries to improve the conditions. Fenris has the luxury of complaing about the city elves, but he has no ties to think about, no children, no one to feed or worry about clothing. It's much more complicated than saying: your free now go do something worthwhile with it.

I think also when you are living day to day working awful jobs and most likely long hours it's hard to appreciate life. I am speaking from experience as well. You may be called free but you aren't.

Doesn't Fenris say freedom is a noble concept?

It's true. Because if your noble you understand the concept all too well j/k

Some people will always have more opportunity and those people are ultimately freer than others who must work constantly just to stay afloat. City elves really aren't free. They could leave the cities but how would they survive? And if they tried to found a new place to live, what would happen? I don't see them any freer than slaves.

Modifié par aldien, 16 août 2012 - 03:34 .

[Amirit]

aldien wrote...


You mean his breastplate Amirit?

 

Yes. Looks strange - useless, confusing and to me unattractive (in the game I mean, the picture above is soooo sweet!))

 Some people will always have more opportunity and those people are ultimately freer than others who must work constantly just to stay afloat. City elves really aren't free. They could leave the cities but how would they survive? And if they tried to found a new place to live, what would happen? I don't see them any freer than slaves.

Sorry, but this is wrong. One man - yes - needs an opportunity. Group of men need one thing - a leader who can organise them and show the way. And you telling me in the whole elven history there was none?!

Modifié par Amirit, 16 août 2012 - 04:04 .

[aldien]

Amirit wrote...

aldien wrote...


You mean his breastplate Amirit?

 

Yes. Looks strange - useless, confusing and to me unattractive (in the game I mean, the picture above is soooo sweet!))

 Some people will always have more opportunity and those people are ultimately freer than others who must work constantly just to stay afloat. City elves really aren't free. They could leave the cities but how would they survive? And if they tried to found a new place to live, what would happen? I don't see them any freer than slaves.

Sorry, but this is wrong. One man - yes - needs an opportunity. Group of men need one thing - a leader who can organise them and show the way. And you telling me in the whole elven history there was none?!

Elven civilization in Thedas has fallen twice and I am going to assume they had a leader. Humans, especially the Chantry will never leave them alone. Their population is also declining. Even if they had strong leadership it would only be one place, one town and would porbably be extinquished as soon as the city learned of it. Still the questions remains: how do they survive? Where do they go? Who is going to risk their children dying and families for a cause that has failed twice? They have no land, little respect and no money. They can be organized all they want but without any power to back it up no one is going to take them seriously. Trust me, I know. The best they can do, in my opinion, is fight for more rights where they live, for now anyway, unless an opportunity presents itself during the mage/templar war. I just don't think there is enough of them left to make a difference. Now, if you had a very handsome king that was willing to help them out, offer them land, and who was not currently fighting with Orlais, well... perhaps they might have a chance.

Modifié par aldien, 16 août 2012 - 04:53 .

[Amirit]

Human history knows many examples when people who have nothing to loose created countries out of nothing. City elves known to be successful in every aspect of typical human life-stiles. They could make their life different. Should BW "Makers" want to

P.S. Aldien, you HAVE to play dwarf-noble. Trust forum on it - it's amazing.

Modifié par Amirit, 16 août 2012 - 05:04 .

[aldien]

Amirit wrote...

Human history knows many examples when people who have nothing to loose created countries out of nothing. City elves known to be successful in every aspect of typical human life-stiles. They could make their life different. Should BW "Makers" want to

P.S. Aldien, you HAVE to play dwarf-noble. Trust forum on it - it's amazing.

But... but... but... I have my city elf almost designed. I need some new clothes for my warden. I love that there are so many mods for this game. So sad there are not as many for DA2 (((

Is dwarf-noble really that fun?

BW "Makers"

hehehehe cute!

Maybe if the Tevinter elves managed a successful rebellion things might change. I want the slave rebellion anyway and I do want things to improve for them. I love elves! All of them, especially the squishy broody kind.

I'm cheeky but it's too cute






EWWWWWWWWWWWW
Why didn't you people tell me about the Broodmother??? Nothing should have that many ******

Modifié par aldien, 16 août 2012 - 05:29 .

[Dutchess]

Dwarf Noble is very good and one of the more impressing origins, in my opinion.

A succesful rebellion is Tevinter is no doubt going to be very difficult. Fenris says there are rebellions all the time, and that as soon as the magisters are confronted with an outside threat, they forget all their feuds and schemes and team up to strike it down. But a well-organized rebellion with ALL slaves participating, combined with the endless war with the Qunari the Imperium struggles with... it could be possible to overthrow the magisters. Although the slaughter would be unimaginable...

Edit: aldien, you didn't want any spoilers. And that is definitely the grossest thing in the entire game... especially when you consider how broodmothers come to be.

Modifié par renjility, 16 août 2012 - 05:33 .

[Amirit]

Nice picture LOL ))))))

DN is not fun (if you are searching for a good laugh). But so does (does not) city elf origin. You probably right, and CE simply more close to your heart. And it's a GREAT Origin. But DN is so touchy and so involved in the whole story... And the character... Well, just keep in mind there is a reason why it's everyones at least second favorite.

[aldien]

I think Ren and I have about seen all the pictures I always forget he is reading the Kama Sutra in the picture. You know that's why Hawke taught to him read, right?

The elves in Tevinter are screwed either way. If they bring down the magister then they just have the Quanari to deal with. Can't see that being a great option either. :/

You could have told me there was going to be extreme creepiness and something big and ugly! Okay... this is going to sound weird. But how is a broodmother made? Darkspawn rape? The dwarf's voice kept creeping me out so I was paying more attention to what was around the corner than what she was saying.

[Amirit]

Faerunner wrote...
Human history, not elven history.

That's BW doing, not historical.

As for "where did they succeed in humans area... DA2 is the only example - true. We know from different dialogs, that elfs _can_ get a lot of money (yet, still treated like a dirt by humans), they _can_ buy property outside alienage, they can take a position like First Enchanter (and there noone ever mention their origin). They CAN but they do not do it. And do not seek life outside of human cities, do not try to expand alienage or make it more livable and at the same time they do not want to go to Dalish - to the life of their ancestor.

But again - it's all BW

[aldien]

Amirit wrote...

Faerunner wrote...
Human history, not elven history.

That's BW doing, not historical.

As for "where did they succeed in humans area... DA2 is the only example - true. We know from different dialogs, that elfs _can_ get a lot of money (yet, still treated like a dirt by humans), they _can_ buy property outside alienage, they can take a position like First Enchanter (and there noone ever mention their origin). They CAN but they do not do it. And do not seek life outside of human cities, do not try to expand alienage or make it more livable and at the same time they do not want to go to Dalish - to the life of their ancestor.

But again - it's all BW

The only point I am going to make on this is that as soon as you get a large enough group of elves together the Chantry will intervene. They will never allow them to become too big, too organized or get ahead. They control everything in an underhanded way. Elves would have no say so on the size of the alienage. That's up to city officials and they are not elves, so they could care less.

Most property outside of the alienages is owned by nobles. All of Orlais and Antiva is and I suspect most of Ferelden. I suspect that is also why the Dalish are nomadic. They move when humans take too much interest in them and they own nothing but the things they carry.  Circle works different from the rest of Thedas.

[thats1evildude]

Sure, there are elves who sometimes get lucky or manage to save up enough money to move out of the Alienage. They end up slinking back when humans burn their houses down.

And it's pretty hard to expand the Alienage when they're fenced in by barriers and human landlords own most of the property in said Alienage. They'll gladly kick out the elves if they need the building for, say, storage.

Elves are equal in the Circle of Magi, but that's only because all mages are looked down upon. Holding the title of First Enchanter isn't as big a deal as you may think it is; Orsino only had the job because no one else wanted it.

aldien wrote...

The only point I am going to make on this is that as soon as you get a large enough group of elves together the Chantry will intervene. They will never allow them to become too big, too organized or get ahead. They control everything in an underhanded way. Elves would have no say so on the size of the alienage. That's up to city officials and they are not elves, so they could care less.

I would say the Chantry is only part of the problem. Really, the Chantry does not benefit from the exploitation of elves; the greater fault is with the nobility of Thedas, who have a seemingly-endless pool of cheap labour as long as the elven people are starving and desperate. That includes the gorram magisters.

It's that goddamn 1% keeping the elves down, man.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 16 août 2012 - 06:06 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Amirit, the part of the breastplate you're referring to is actually quite useful. It protects the neck and head from an upward deflection of an enemy's sword. Just imagine how much that would suck, to die because of a deflection . . . it isn't usually as exaggerated as it is on Hawke's Champion armor set, but it does have a purpose!

Speaking of armour, I know a lot of people gripe about the fact that Fenris wears so little metal, but I've always seen it as - his fighting depends more on speed, and him taking enemies down quickly, than on him being able to take a lot of hits while chipping something down. That's Aveline's style, and she looks like it! But it's not Fenris'. He wears mostly leather instead of plate for the increased speed and manueverability, while keeping the most major piece of plate (breastplate) for the additional protection, and also the gauntlets, to both enhance his bare-handed attacks and protect his fingers and wrists. Leather armour is far from useless, and a lot more lightweight than plate.

I have to agree with Aldien that forming a seperate nation is not very feasible as an alternative for the City Elves. The Dalish survive because the clans are small, and scattered. You can bet that if they seemed cohesive and looked for a new "homeland," the Chantry would be on that with lots of Templars, especially if the City Elves joined them (which I find unlikely, for many reasons, beginning with - I doubt the Dalish would take the City Elves en masse. One elf can be taught Dalish ways and expected to adapt to their hosts. An entire culture of city elves would not adapt; they would retain their own ways. The Dalish don't want elves who don't fit their definitions of what elves should be. They don't even consider city elves to be elves. They certainly wouldn't accept city elf culture existing alongside their "true elven" culture - never mind that they don't live like the elves of Arlathan any more than the City Elves do. The Dales, maybe, we don't know much about those, but city-dwelling cultures are very different from nomadic cultures, and Arlathan-era elves were city dwellers.)

All of which is a longwinded way of saying that the problem that needs to be overcome isn't humans and elves living together, it's racism - which is not an easy force to fight.

Thing is, it's not being fought. Remember the City Elf origin being reminded by his/her father not to bring up the fact that he/she can fight, because that makes him/her less desirable as a marriage partner, due to the perception that only 'troublemakers' can fight? This establishes that it's one of the norms of city elf culture, that they should be defenseless, "harmless." So that humans don't feel threatened. Which plays right into human racism against elves, and is most likely a result of internalized racism on the part of elven culture.

I'd like to have hope for Ferelden, since if you do the right things, there are potential avenues for the improvement of both the city elf and Dalish situations, but . . . there are plenty of people who didn't do those things, and you can bet they'd cry "RETCON!" if their options were invalidated in a future game. The epilogue cards are officially "rumours," so who knows if those things actually happen at all . . . ? So there isn't really much hope of a higher level of elven equality beginning there, I'm afraid. Still, moreso than in Orlais, would be my guess.

[thats1evildude]

I think the best hope for an elven homeland is a successful slave rebellion in the Tevinter Imperium that topples the Magisters. I don't see the Chantry organizing an Exalted March to invade Tevinter just to restore the Magisters to power.

It was Fenris who suggested the idea to me, actually.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 16 août 2012 - 06:25 .

[aldien]

Stupid moving faces! Bah to you!

I hate Orzamar ((

I'm going to ravage Alistair after this level is over. Hurry up!

thats1evildude said: I would say the Chantry is only part of the problem. Really, the Chantry
does not benefit from the exploitation of elves; the greater fault is
with the nobility of Thedas, who have a seemingly-endless pool of cheap
labour as long as the elven people are starving and desperate. That
includes the gorram magisters.

Chantry would not want the elves to organize for fear of losing their religion I can't believe I worked that in there. Sad...just sad. They would not risk them returning to their heathen ways in other words. Yes, I honestly believe the Chantry would worry that would happen.

Agreed about cheap labor.


thats1evildude said: It's that goddamn 1% keeping the elves down, man.

LOL! How very true.

Fae said: I wonder if that might be a future plot point in future games? The
writers have dropped strong hints that Tevinter and the Qunari are
getting ready to try to reconquer Thedas, so it would be interesting to
see how the elves that are caught in the middle deal with it. The
majority of city elves are a people who cling to the last shreds of
their culture despite terrible living conditions, but some elves' lives
are so miserable that they'll trade even that for a better life (as
seen near the end of DA2, Act 2). The Qunari offer better
living conditions at the expense of one's own culture, while human
cities treat elves terribly but let them practice their own
traditions. It would be interesting to see how the question of "when is
it enough" is raised among elves.

That's a very good point. When do you not have one? It may be that it actually comes down to the humans trying to curry favor with the elves if they will help support the fight against the Quanari, especially if they start to encroach on the Free Marches. Hmmmmm interesting. Stop making me think!

Fae said: Lol You didn't want any spoilers! Pretty scary, isn't it? Suddenly it makes sense as to why there aren't
that many women Grey Wardens (since you're expected to go into the Deep
Roads near the end of your life and die trying to take down as many
darkspawn as you can). Pleasant dreams. :3


True, but I would have let than one slide. Anything not to be pissing myself every time I went around a corner Pleasant dreams? You're rotten today. Next you and Ren will start ganging up on me.

Harle, I was reading an article the other day about the Mongols and their silk shirts. I was fascinated by the fact that they had learned a silk undergarment would decrease the chance of arrowhead penetration. It's quite possible that Fenris's armor is made from a different material that is not leather, but does have a natural resistance, whether magical or fiber, to laceration .I mean, pffft this is all silly speculation on my part, but it does have a weird sheen to it. When I see Hawke put on armor I can tell the different between the leather and the chain (well we would hope so ) But Fenris's armor looks to be a special material. Still wonder what purpose the feathers serve I do agree his armor has been made for flexibility and speed. You can't jump around in plate.

thats1evildude said: I think the best hope for an elven homeland is a successful slave
rebellion in the Tevinter Imperium that topples the Magisters. I don't
see the Chantry organizing an Exalted March to invade Tevinter just to
restore the Magisters to power.

It was Fenris who suggested the idea to me, actually.

I agree. I am assuming the biggest population of elves is to be found in Tevinter. That is their last best hope unless they can strike a bargain with someone else.

Fenris talks to you too? I thought that was just me

Modifié par aldien, 16 août 2012 - 06:52 .

[Amirit]

aldien wrote...

Harle, I was reading an article the other day about the Mongols and their silk shirts. I was fascinated by the fact that they had learned a silk undergarment would decrease the chance of arrowhead penetration.

Interesting... I read it was used to prevent insects (lice) spreading on you (they do not likr silk). But who knows.

As for that rediculos armor piece - ok, good to know. Still, it's too much on a Champion armor.

[Amirit]

Don't you remember dwarf-brother? And the Chantry quest? I really think elven priests is just something overlooked in game design. I think by all means Chantry should encourage elves and dwarfs to join it's ranks.