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The Official Fenris Discussion thread

Débuté par Chris Priestly , déc. 16 2010 09:06

55380 réponses à ce sujet

#52276
MissRedZelda
Posté 17 août 2012 - 03:28

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@Faerunner...

To be honest, I HIGHLY doubt any elf would even want to join the Chantry. If anything, I think the Chantry would be glad that one of the "heathen elfs" decided to convert to their religion. It's happened in real world history after all (and that's all I'm going to say about that. I don't want to bring real world politics into this discussion).

Elves blame humans for everything that's happened to them, so I really cannot see why they would decide to join a HUMAN religion when there is so much bad blood between them. Plus, elves have always struck me as being very stubborn and hard headed people (in a good way). So again, I highly doubt they would lower themselves to joining the religion of the people they despise - even out of desperation.

But, if they were really that desperate, I can see them more seeking out the Dalish. It's been established that even though they consider the CE "flatears", they will still take in any elf who proves he/she is worthy of rejoining the "true" elves.

EDIT: Wait, that Iona chick from the Cousland origin was an elf? (Quickly looks her up) Huh. What do you know, so she was. I never realised that! XD That hair of hers was covering her ears the whole time.

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 17 août 2012 - 03:39 .

#52277
Harle Cerulean
Posté 17 août 2012 - 04:17

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RedZelda, the city elves are Andrastian. One of the requirements that was made when the survivors of the Dales were invited to live in human cities was conversion - and they did. They've been Andrastian for hundreds of years now. The Dalish certainly feel the way you're describing, and individual city elves might rebel theologically, but the majority of city elves worship the Maker and Andraste.

#52278
MissRedZelda
Posté 17 août 2012 - 04:39

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Andrastian, yes. But Chantry-ian, no. I can see them admiring Andraste (keyword: "admiring") for freeing them from the Tevintar Emperioum. But joining the Chantry, no. I think the way they see it is similar to Anders. He seems to be heavily Andrastian, but he does not support the Chantry. He feels that they are obscuring her message, and that she did not want mages and elves to be treated the way they are.

It's kinda like some people these days. They believe in God and Jesus and stuff, but they choose to not follow any organised religion.

So yeah. I still cannot see any elves joining the Chantry order. Given the choice or not.

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 17 août 2012 - 04:40 .

#52279
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:06

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Sorry to say, I have to agree with Harle Cerulean on this one.

As much as I would love for most city elves to be anti-Chantry, the City Elf Origin reveals that most city elves see the Dalish as savages and heathans... if they believe in them at all. Slim Couldry reveals that those living in the alienage are devout out of a need for hope, and Valendrian's speech at the beginning of Soris and CE's wedding pretty much cements that city elves revere Andraste en masse. It could be that most city elves are part of the religion mostly because they revere Andraste for freeing them from slavery and less for the Maker or the Chantry, but Andrastian most of them are.

Unfortunately (and I wish it was different), I also don't think joining the Dalish is as simple or easy as that. Even when you pass the fact that most city elves believe the Chantry propoganda about the Dalish being heathans and savages (even Pol in the Dalish Origin nervously asks if all the stories about blood sacrifices and baby-eating was true), most city elves have strong ties to family and their close community. It's part of their culture, so to just pick up and abandon all that wouldn't be so easy emotionally. To say nothing of the dangers of the journey and the extreme unlikeliness of even finding the Dalish once they're out there. It's simply too risky, too dangerous, and I can see many elves either deciding it's better to stick with the evil they know over the evil they don't know or wander home "embarrassed and hungry" to avoid getting killed on the road.

#52280
MissRedZelda
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:36

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I'm gonna go with them only being part of the religion out of gratitude toward Andraste. I really can't (or refuse to believe) that they actually buy into the Chantry's bullcrap about mages and elves being below humans, even if it's out of desperation. I really don't see why they would follow a religion (or rather Chantry propaganda) that tries to back up their treatment of them by obscuring Andraste's true message.

Modifié par MissRedZelda, 17 août 2012 - 05:36 .

#52281
Dutchess
Posté 17 août 2012 - 09:41

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Well, Andraste lived a long time ago. The elves of that generation are long since dead. After such a long time, it's not so strange that the elves' beliefs have changed. With enough Chantry propaganda it's surely possible. And religions in which the followers are seen as worthless and sinners do exist, so even that aspect does not make it impossible. Heck, Fenris becomes a follower of the Chantry.

And that makes me think: when does the Chantry preach elves are less than humans? I know they have plenty to say about mages, but I don't believe I've heard that the Chantry is openly against elves. Sebastian says to Fenris that the Maker cares for all his children, thus also Fenris.

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#52282
Amirit
Posté 17 août 2012 - 01:45

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Hurray! I heard Fenris in the first templar in Lothering :) I am not that hopeless :)

Faerunner wrote...
Considering the "Human POV" codex entry on city elves (written by a Chantry scholar), I think the answer is pretty clear.

 

Interesting enough, Leliana tells the story of elvish land (Dales) differently. And sais she is not sure if she believes Chantres clame that it was elves who strike first.

Modifié par Amirit, 17 août 2012 - 05:24 .

#52283
aldien
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:29

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Ren said: Heck, Fenris becomes a follower of the Chantry.

When does Fenris say he is an open follower of the Chantry? He's curious but unless I missed another crucial line, I don't think he ever proclaims he is Andrastian.

#52284
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:36

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I don't think the Chantry is openly racist against elves. In fact, most of them preach about how all are equal in the Maker's eyes (such as the priest at Ostagar that offers a blessing, the Revered Mother in Redcliffe and Sebastian toward Fenris), and I'm sure most of them believe themselves. Like I said, when people are so poor, desperate and uneducated that the smallest bit of kindness seems like a huge deal, and the Chantry provides small services that pretend to care about them, so they latch onto it like starving people onto crumbs of bread.

Not to mention that most city elves are miserably uneducated. Most of them don't know anything about that time or their culture before their conquer. Valendrian's speech at Soris and the PC's wedding hints that all they know about that time is that they were enslaved by Tevinter, but Andraste freed them from slavery, so they gladly revere the religion in her name. Most of them probably don't even remember Shartan, the Exaulted March against the Dales, or fully realize their ancestors' forced conversion. If anything, they're probably grateful to be saved from so-called heathanism.

Unfortunately, and I don't want to draw prejudiced comparisons, it seems a bit like descendents of real-world minorities whose ancestors were conquered and forcefully converted by colonizers or slavers, and who now preach about the truth of their religion or look down on their ancestral homeland or culture's so-called "pagan" beliefs anyway. (I'm sorry, there's no nice way to put it.)

The Dalish seem to be the ones who simply admire her for freeing them, but the city elves take it a step further by full on worshipping her, and the Maker. Even Fenris knows better and he succumbs to Sebastian's recommendation to start worshipping the Maker (the Maker! For crying out loud!) Because it's a balm for his emotional wounds. Even he knows his history better and he starts worshipping the God that, for all intents and purposes, reconquered his people and forced them back into slavery in all but name when they should still have the second homeland Andraste promised them AND Shartan fought for. (Oh, but "free" elves don't bear the title of slave, so they are worthy of his contempt and the Maker of his prayer. Feh.)

#52285
Xilizhra
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:41

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There's hardly anything wrong with paganism, fear not.

On that note... I sort of drew up an original character of mine, an Old God cultist magister on a sort of quest for knowledge, who'd wind up in an allied relationship with one of my heroes. One of her own beliefs is that Andraste was a provincial magister who just wanted to take over the Imperium, and Shartan was her slave and just the subject of a lot of subsequent propaganda. She also detests Andrastianism in general for various reasons, even the Imperial Chantry, and hence respects the Dalish for holding onto their own gods. I believe her interactions with Fenris and Merrill would be rather intriguing; Sebastian too, mayhaps.

#52286
Dutchess
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:48

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aldien wrote...

Ren said: Heck, Fenris becomes a follower of the Chantry.

When does Fenris say he is an open follower of the Chantry? He's curious but unless I missed another crucial line, I don't think he ever proclaims he is Andrastian.


He doesn't say it himself, but in a conversation Sebastian teases him a little that he saw Fenris praying in the Chantry. You don't pray to something you don't believe in.:)

#52287
aldien
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:51

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renjility wrote...

aldien wrote...

Ren said: Heck, Fenris becomes a follower of the Chantry.

When does Fenris say he is an open follower of the Chantry? He's curious but unless I missed another crucial line, I don't think he ever proclaims he is Andrastian.


He doesn't say it himself, but in a conversation Sebastian teases him a little that he saw Fenris praying in the Chantry. You don't pray to something you don't believe in.:)


I do. I pray to my cheese toasty everyday, Oh please wise cheese and humble bread deliver me from the insanity of the Fenris thread ;)

Modifié par aldien, 17 août 2012 - 05:52 .

#52288
Dutchess
Posté 17 août 2012 - 06:30

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aldien wrote...

renjility wrote...

aldien wrote...

Ren said: Heck, Fenris becomes a follower of the Chantry.

When does Fenris say he is an open follower of the Chantry? He's curious but unless I missed another crucial line, I don't think he ever proclaims he is Andrastian.


He doesn't say it himself, but in a conversation Sebastian teases him a little that he saw Fenris praying in the Chantry. You don't pray to something you don't believe in.:)


I do. I pray to my cheese toasty everyday, Oh please wise cheese and humble bread deliver me from the insanity of the Fenris thread ;)



Heh, I believe you are for a large part responsible for said insanity.:innocent::lol:

#52289
Dwarva
Posté 17 août 2012 - 06:32

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BTW Greg Ellis just confirmed he's in a VA session for Cullen xD Not sure if you guys are too bothered but I'm pretty :pinched: and :D he's going to be in DA3!

#52290
Amirit
Posté 17 août 2012 - 06:57

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Just how old Cullen will be there? Sure all our companions are ageless but still curious.

#52291
aldien
Posté 17 août 2012 - 06:58

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Staarbux wrote...

BTW Greg Ellis just confirmed he's in a VA session for Cullen xD Not sure if you guys are too bothered but I'm pretty :pinched: and :D he's going to be in DA3!


Pish, Ren. I do nothing but spread sanity everywhere I go. Right now I am angry at Alistair. :/

I'm not really surprised about Cullen being in DA3. Gaider has been going on about how much he loved Cullen's look in DA2 for months. I'm happy for Cullen fans :D Hopefully he will be an LI. I think that would make a lot of people happy :)

#52292
Dwarva
Posté 17 août 2012 - 07:35

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Amirit wrote...

Just how old Cullen will be there? Sure all our companions are ageless but still curious.


He's not confirmed if he's a companion. In fact evidence sort of points to him having a cameo :mellow:

#52293
coldwetn0se
Posté 17 août 2012 - 07:45

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Well, slightly (extremely) off-topic, but I got some new mods installed for DAO and the chargenmorph compiler worked brilliantly...brilliantly, I say!! :D
I ended up making 5 new characters (twas fun...must...keep...making...), BUT; my PrintScreen function stopped working....WAAAAAAAH! :'(

As for Fenris, have a few new mods I am installing to DA2, then I am making a lovely new toon for him (bah.....who else would I make them for...*wink*!).

Nothing of real import to add to the conversation, for I am feeling light and fluffy today. No heady/serious stuff for me......look! clouds................*trails off incoherently*

#52294
aldien
Posté 17 août 2012 - 08:20

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coldwetn0se wrote...

Well, slightly (extremely) off-topic, but I got some new mods installed for DAO and the chargenmorph compiler worked brilliantly...brilliantly, I say!! :D
I ended up making 5 new characters (twas fun...must...keep...making...), BUT; my PrintScreen function stopped working....WAAAAAAAH! :'(

As for Fenris, have a few new mods I am installing to DA2, then I am making a lovely new toon for him (bah.....who else would I make them for...*wink*!).

Nothing of real import to add to the conversation, for I am feeling light and fluffy today. No heady/serious stuff for me......look! clouds................*trails off incoherently*


Coldie have you had too much caffeine? Same here. Don't have it in me to discuss serious. Just got over my tiff with Alistair and all has been forgiven. Now we drink!

Awwwwwwww I want to see! That's just cruel. You can't come on here announcing great stuffssss and not share it.

Are these new Fenris mods? I haven't checked for any in a donkey's age. Mostly always see clothes for him nothing.... *ahem* interesting.

I shall toast to you tonight and probably write insane drunken post on the forum later, but in your honor of course ;). I think it's chardonnay to start followed by cabernet. Enjoy your Friday :D

Modifié par aldien, 17 août 2012 - 08:21 .

#52295
coldwetn0se
Posté 17 août 2012 - 08:29

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@aldien - I just wub you woman! :D (how the hell did you know I was on a coffee high?!?!? Pyschic!)

I have not found any real good Fen related mods (yup; prefer the vanilla Fen), but I found a few new armors (new to me, that is), and got a few more CC available mods (need to run compiler first...so glad I don't have to do it by hand anymore.)

I think I will join you in the festivities this evening...HA! Chardonnay would go beautifully with the over-priced halibut I am making *smirk*. Perhaps I will figure out my PrintScreen woes, and have some new piccy's to post this evening. (I should mention that earlier this week, I did get a crap-ton of new Fenris pics from Act 1 with my Harley Hawke. Will definately post a few of those later *grin*)

PS....wut did that wicked boy Ali do to you....share; it will make you feel better. *pats aldien on the back reassuringly*

;)

#52296
Dutchess
Posté 17 août 2012 - 08:38

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aldien wrote...

Staarbux wrote...

BTW Greg Ellis just confirmed he's in a VA session for Cullen xD Not sure if you guys are too bothered but I'm pretty :pinched: and :D he's going to be in DA3!


Pish, Ren. I do nothing but spread sanity everywhere I go. Right now I am angry at Alistair. :/

I'm not really surprised about Cullen being in DA3. Gaider has been going on about how much he loved Cullen's look in DA2 for months. I'm happy for Cullen fans :D Hopefully he will be an LI. I think that would make a lot of people happy :)


Aww, and the love for Ali was so great. What has the bastard (hahaha) done to you?:lol::P

#52297
SurrealSadi
Posté 17 août 2012 - 09:51

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Yeah, I saw the news on Tumblr about Cullen. I actually did an internal, loud, SQUEE, but not because of Cullen. The SQUEE was for the fact that we know DA3 has begun.

#52298
Amirit
Posté 17 août 2012 - 10:37

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 Back to Fenris. Seen this?   


Can not say I like it (omg, author should HATE Anders to mod him like this) but there are _some_ interesting scenes.

And speaking of a good scenes - why did I never came across of this one?!

Modifié par Amirit, 17 août 2012 - 10:46 .

#52299
aldien
Posté 17 août 2012 - 10:55

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Awwwww group hug. I'm just starting the warm and fuzzy of tipsies.

Because my lovely Coldie cherub your sentences were very lively!!! <----- like that. LIVELY!!!! Plus, I'm omnipotent ;)

You know every time someone says vanilla Fen I want to lick him and see if he really tastes like Vanilla. I love vanilla. I guess where I want to lick probably won't taste like vanilla, but do we really know what elves taste like? ;) OH I so did say it Ren ;)

I see your halibut and raise you lamb korma. Ha! Got to be honest, lamb korma and Cabernet don't taste too bad together. Makes me think... you know why do I see elves liking spicy food? Fenris likes spicy food I bet. Didn't Sten say something about spices and Seheron?

Aldie pets your printscrn woes Coldie.

Post piccies! We need more Fen. Did you get any nice shots of his backside?

Well... Ali completely embarrassed my elf warden at Landsmeet *weeps* I seriously did get upset because I wasn't expecting it. :( But... after going through the different dialogue options I realized that he wasn't being racist just logical and that he would be happier doing something else. Also... he really does love the warden. I mean you have to be cruel to get him to agree to other things. However, Fenris, the type of character he is, would not have given a damn what anyone else thought, actually he would have already told everyone to kiss his pretty little backside and been on his way. But that's an oversimplification in this case.

I went and read about Landsmeet and I realized too many people equate marriage with a happy ending because of the crap we get fed as girls at an early age. Rather ride off into the sunset, laughing it up, getting pissed out of my head sitting on Alistairs drunken lap without being forced to wear a corset. ;) There ya go ;)

Hopefully, SurrealSadi BW will make an official announcement soon and show us something :)

Modifié par aldien, 17 août 2012 - 11:11 .

#52300
coldwetn0se
Posté 17 août 2012 - 11:48

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@aldien - you're a beauty! :) I love spicy food, and yes, I think Fenris would be good with spicy (him being a bit spicy himself....hubba-hubba *giggle/snort*) I would say most Bourdeaux would go well with your Lamb...mmmmmmm. If it wasn't 100 degrees right now, I might have changed my dinner plans because of you. :D

As it stands though, I am still making the Halibut, but I went with a Pinot Gris instead of the Chardonnay (I'm from Oregon though....It's practically a "law" that you MUST drink Pinot Noirs and Pinot Gris...heh!). Have the wine chillin' as we speak.

I will post le Fenri (like Henri, but different......I think I'm getting "sympathetic toasted" with you.....cuz I'm starting to get weird) O.o :D

As soon as I finish making dinner, you'll get the pictures. What about you?? I want to see your Elf Warden!

As for the Ali incident....aahhhhhh....yes.....I see. Been there...*nods knowingly* It's funny, my first Elf Warden got the same "talk" from Ali (which I didn't know about ahead of time), but being the very pragmatic Elf that she was, she dealt. (Then got a little somethin', somethin', from a smexy assassin. *ZOINKS*)

PS - btw; I too love vanilla and I think he WOULD taste like vanilla (and feel free to let your mind wander wherever with that.....including south....*SNAP*). That's my story, and I'm sticking to it (courtesy of stealing your story. heh!)
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