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[aldien]

MrFlipFlops wrote...

aldien, and I'm sad to say that I understand all these concerns, but I'm just one of those magpie people, that love shiny things. Don't get me wrong, if a game is ****, then no amount of pretty glossy graphics will make me like it, but I do tend to enjoy them a great deal more than necessary. But that can be said of almost anything in games - flavour text, costume design, colour palette, walking animations and stuff like that. I just love it to bits and notice it more often than badly paced combat or boring level design. I guess the benefit is that I can enjoy myself almost all the time.

Also, while we’re on the topic of game design. I appear to be a psychic freak of nature, since I never had that dialogue wheel problem that many other people encounter, when the paraphrase is nothing like what the character actually says when you click on it. I was never surprised with such an occurence, neither in DA2 nor in ME. They always said exactly what I thought they would. I had much more trouble with the DAO system, since I had no idea what tone a line is intended to be delivered in, leading to me choosing something that I thought was sarcasm, but was actually just straightforward and rude, leading to disapproval. Sorry, Zev, I suck at communicating, I wasn’t trying to be mean! Did anyone else ever have that problem?

New Page deserves Fenbear ( I have no idea who did this because people do not always list names on tumblr)




Oh I love shiney. Give me lots of shiney... but right now I'm looking at the technical aspects because I'm curious to know how much development time has gone into this and exactly where that time has been focused. To be fair, it comes down to the people designing the game, the quality of the their skills and the money thrown at the game. Valve spent 40 million on HL2 They also built their own engine. But that's a different story. Skyrim for instance had eight people design their dungeons, and I think there was well over a 100 of those. So it is doable to create something worthwhile with less. However, the Skyrim storyline was lacking, except for the dragons. I loved the dragons DA's storyline is far superior to Skyrim's and I think Bethesda should look to BW for inspiration when it comes to telling a good story.

I'm hoping for better, more integrated side quests this time, especially ones that involve companions and less hacking and slashing for skill gain. Anyway, I'm rambling.


Also, while we’re on the topic of game design. I appear to be a psychic
freak of nature, since I never had that dialogue wheel problem that many
other people encounter, when the paraphrase is nothing like what the
character actually says when you click on it. I was never surprised with
such an occurence, neither in DA2 nor in ME. They always said exactly
what I thought they would. I had much more trouble with the DAO system,
since I had no idea what tone a line is intended to be delivered in,
leading to me choosing something that I thought was sarcasm, but was
actually just straightforward and rude, leading to disapproval. Sorry,
Zev, I suck at communicating, I wasn’t trying to be mean! Did anyone
else ever have that problem

That's an interesting point. There were two instances when I was surprised by Hawke's response. What I thought was going to be humorous actually came out sarcastic and mean. But it only happened twice as I recall. So... there was the odd surprise. I have to agree. The DAO system makes it difficult at times to judge tone and meaning. Replies for Zev are the hardest to interpret followed quickly by Alistair and then Morrigan. I struggled in the beginning to understand the meaning behind the text. So, a voiced protagonist isn't such a bad thing.

Modifié par aldien, 24 septembre 2012 - 02:13 .

[Amirit]

 

MrFlipFlops wrote...
Edit: Tired and sleepy, prone to not making all the sense. I probably should've waited 'till tomorrow to reply... Oh, well.I actuallu had to run the post through MS Word to catch all the typos, since I'm too dazed to try and catch them myself

 

Then I would not bother you anymore Can only add that I like VO and had to get used to silent PC. Yet, still do not understand necessity of paraphrasing. Personally would not mind to read at least part of the exact phrase my character is going to pronounce.

Modifié par Amirit, 24 septembre 2012 - 02:11 .

[AbsoluteApril]

I agree with Fae! Couldn't have said it better. Sadly we're going to be stuck with a voiced PC and some form of the 'wheel'. Hopefully cinematic auto-dialogue will not be over-used (looking at you ME3). bah /complaining


edit to add - with Kinect it would be possible to go back to the silent protag, because you the player can speak the words, that also does away with the dev's dislike of the text wall because they 'don't want to hear the exact same line repeated'? (althought the player would repeat the line...) Course this only works for the xbox... well just thinking out loud
it's been a long day

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 25 septembre 2012 - 01:33 .

[CuriousArtemis]

I am the opposite; I find the silent Warden devoid of personality; I guess I don't have a very good imagination  Dang though, I truly would be depressed if they went back to that; I might not even buy the game!

Well you can skip that first flirt option with Fenris; it's only the act 2 flirt options that trigger romance. But even the ones after that are pretty forceful! Luckily I like derpy Hawke, but if you don't, you're kinda SOL...

Someone suggested in the DA3 forum that there should be multiple heart options. I really like that!

 

[Enkidu]

*Phone Typing 2: The Revenge of the Typo. Rated H for Horrible*

Boy oh boy, I knew mentioning the wheel and the voiced PC was going to open a can of worms. Well, here it's civilised, at least, so I really can't complain. Can't really say much either, besides what I've already stated. People play and interpret the game differently, some things work better for some people, some don't. Too much of it is just up to subjective preference, I can't realy see how I can continue the discussion without going into "your opinion is wrong, you should think like me" territory. Fae brings up valid points, but they simply may not apply to everyone.

April, about the Kinect thing... I really don't know about that. I guess if it's not too tough to implement, then it can always be an option, nothing wrong with those, but... Ugh, I hate using that word due to how it's been abused (it's somewhere on par with "realism/realistic"), but I really think that sort of thing can break immersion for most people. I remember reading on the DAO boards that some pleayers would read the lines aloud, as though their character was speaking in their voice, but that only works if you roleplay the character as though they were you. For others it may just punch them right out of experience. I know I'll feel weird reading a male characters lines in my ungodly german/liverpool accent XDD

Moto, multiple heart options sound like the tops. I'm all for more choice and more options.

[coldwetn0se]

I see the value in both styles. I actually had some difficulty the first time I played DAO, with not always recognizing what was simply sarcasm, literal or flirtatious. Don't get me wrong, some of it was plainly obvious, but I still felt I missed the boat on some of the dialogue options. I occasionally saw something literal, as the character being ironic. Since the approval system was set the way it was, it didn't really bother me though. *Say something you think is snarky (turns out it is literal); ****** off companion. Go into inventory, give a prezzie.* My biggest complaint was always seeing the back of my companions head, and the facial expression never changing. Beyond that though, I still enjoyed the system for what it was, and still have a blast playing it.

As for a voiced PC; love it too. I get to see the face of the PC, and actual facial expressions. And there is a bit of truth (at least for me as well) when playing a PC of the opposite sex, it's a tad easier to RP because...well, I don't sound like a dude (even though I have a relatively low voice for a female..heh!). I haven't had to much trouble making up stories and personalities for both my Wardens and my Hawkes, regardless of gender, but I did find myself playing about 90% females in DAO. I have made a number of men in DAO, but rarely got past the Origin (with the exception of two). In DA2, I have had nearly equal number of male Hawkes as female Hawkes (the ladies just barely edge the men out, in numbers).

[AbsoluteApril]

MrFlipFlops wrote...
I remember reading on the DAO boards that some pleayers would read the lines aloud, as though their character was speaking in their voice, but that only works if you roleplay the character as though they were you. For others it may just punch them right out of experience. I know I'll feel weird reading a male characters lines in my ungodly german/liverpool accent XDD

haha okay, I suppose I didn't look at that because for me, even when I speak the lines, I am 'hearing' the voice of the character male or female regardless of what I sound like, but I can see how that would be tough for a lot of people. Maybe because I'm an only child and talk to myself all the time, *I hear voices* LOL

Just got the banter Isabela "will you take off all that spiky armor your're wearing?" Fenris "It's been known to happen." So keeping in mind what Fenris says to Hawke about not being with anyone, perhaps he just does 'other things' and never goes 'all the way'? Fenris! You cad!

(edit to add, I don't think I can take them around together anymore, this flirting banter is *killing* me while Hawke blissfully looks around for Seb... already missed some of his flirts too. grrr)

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:33 .

[Enkidu]

Coldy, you mentioned something I forgot! Yes, being able to see my character's face express actual emotions was a huge plus. All my Wardens and Hawkes are meticulously characterised, but the added face-time really improved my enjoyment of talky-time.
But, like you, I like both systems in different ways and have very little trouble with either. Except for the "tone" dealio in DAO, but I got the hang of it after a while. So, whatever they decide to do with the dialogue in DA3 I'm sure I'll be able to make it my **** work for me. The only system I'd actually be upset about losing is the all-LIs-avaliable-to-all-genders one, because for all its flaws (they actually aren't for me, but they are valid flaws for many people) I love the freedom it gives. I have enough realism in my real life, all games have to be is consistent and that's what that system is to me.

April, I understand your frustration XDD I used to avoid having those two in the same party if the current Hawke wasn't romancing either one. But then I just suddenly strated liking it. I don't really know why, they just clicked one day so I'm actually pro FenBela now, when I used be mostly neutral. 

*Bah, quit censoring my swear words, BSN! This is a forum for an M-rated game, I should be able to curse like a sailor if I feel like it!*

Modifié par MrFlipFlops, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:46 .

[CuriousArtemis]

Honestly, I applaud anyone who's able to romance a different character and still have Fenris in your party. If I intend to romance someone else, I have to not recruit Fenris. NO LIE. Otherwise I will give in an romance him every time!

[Enkidu]

Faerunner, yeah, I see where you're coming from. It's just never been a problem for me, even though I also write out body language for various characters (Kas tends to incline his head like a budgerigar when iquisitive and looks to the side of the speaker when contemplating a question, etc), but the game showing me something doesn't invalidate my own writing. I guess it' becouse I see it less than "my work" and more like a collaboration. The things that go not like I expected are part of the fun, they force me to write stuff I would not have thought of otherwise to explain and flesh things out. But that is, once again, a really subjective thing.

I hope not! I just wrote that as something hypothetical to continue the discussion about the various game design changes between games.

[Amirit]

Choices, it's all about choices. And my only complain is that if there are several ways to do something, they will choose the worst (not even the cheapest one). Like with that wheel: should it really be THAT difficult to add an option "switch off the sound" with automated switch from wheel to 6-lines? The text is already there, you do not have to re-write it. A lot of people play with subtitles anyway. Also, you do not have to remove cinematic, only leave those subtitles as a choice options.

Yet, we can only have either-or. No, not even this - only "or" in case of wheel and in all other cases.

[Enkidu]

Yeah, even though I truly see no problem with the wheel, options are always better than no options.
A bit of a tangent here, to address the part about developers always choosing the worst option… I just think that most of the time it's not so much willful evil/stupidity ("Let's take away all the things they like, because pancakes!" "Brilliant!"), but more of a "can't please everyone" thing. But the again, this industry has done some mind bogglingly dumb things out of sheer ignorance some times, while losing huge piles of cash as a result. You never know. But for what it's worth, I don't think that kind of malevolent misinformation is what brought us the evil of the wheel, which, as you noticed, has some merit to certain players. It's hardly the Hitler of bad game design. Although, if you listen to some people on BSN... But, there are those people for everything, from the elf redesign to Merrill's "fake" Welsh accent (I'm not kidding, I really saw that ****).

[Amirit]

Oh, no-no, don't get me wrong. I strongly believe there is no "conspiracy theory" but stupidity and ignorance. I do not even ask "why?!" anymore (I do but only to underline another obviously failing move). In our case it is always "no time-no money-no research done" thing. Now it's just a hopeless sigh and the fact that I missed David Gaider's "a million time explanation" for the reason the wheel was created the way it was and why it is going to stay this way.

Modifié par Amirit, 25 septembre 2012 - 01:32 .

[aldien]

Dialogue wheel aside, DA2 = interactive storybook/movie. I've always thought it, especially since Hawke is voiced and the emotions are predominately displayed. I never felt like I was really roleplaying the character. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed DA2 very much, but it is not an rpg in the traditional sense. Everything from race to dialogue choices are simplified. Looking at it now, I suppose I enjoy the fact that you don't know after the second, perhaps even third pt the tone of a sentence in DAO. You might get an unexpected nasty reaction from your companions. That is still entertaining and I think very true to life in some respects. People often misinterpret each other. But if a voice actor is relaying the emotions then there is no doubt. You learn quickly response and reaction.

I think it is a shame Hawke is voiced, though I applaud the female voice actor. What that essentially does is force BW to limit the number of responses because voice actors cost money and it takes more time to integrate it into the game. So our choice is limited because of a voiced actor. On top of that, I could not stand the male voice actor for Hawke. He drove me insane and I never played that gender again. Also, I never liked being limited to human. Even Skyrim has people treat you differently depending on race. That was sorely missed in DA2. But if you play the game solely for the romance, which I did, I guess you make allowances. If it wasn't for Fenris's romance and Varric's banter I would have given up on it a long time ago. As far as the Isabela/Fenris romance goes, it's never made much sense to me. But that's probably me so I'll leave it alone.

I believe DA3, if the leaked information is correct and so far it seems to be will be limiting the player to three, perhaps four possible voiced protagonists... so that choice is once again taken out of the players hands. Meh, too much ego.

Ren, did you enter into retirement? I may join you soon. I think I'm suffering from the Calling... feeling a bit like Larius. We can sit on the porch in our rockers and reminisce about the good old days of picking on each other. If you went into some sort of Cullen love fest, I'm disowning you

Modifié par aldien, 25 septembre 2012 - 04:55 .

[AbsoluteApril]

Faerunner wrote...
They're going to get rid of the all-LIs-available-to-all-genders?

nothing confirmed yet - Gaider posted this recently in regards to one of the many 'all LIs bi' threads
"at we're doing for DA3, romance-wise, is yet to be announced. It probably won't be for some time yet."

http://social.biowar.../index/14244998

MrFlipFlops wrote...
("Let's take away all the things they like, because pancakes!" "Brilliant!")

Modifié par AbsoluteApril, 25 septembre 2012 - 05:48 .

[Dutchess]

aldien wrote...

Ren, did you enter into retirement?

Still here, still here. Just... a bit in lurk-mode. 

I may join you soon. I think I'm suffering from the Calling... feeling a bit like Larius. We can sit on the porch in our rockers and reminisce about the good old days of picking on each other.

ROFL, now there's a mental image! Bwahh, I hope I don't wake up one day and see my face has Larius' complexion.

If you went into some sort of Cullen love fest, I'm disowning you

Ewww, Cullen! What do you take me for?

To prove I'm still a Fengirl, a new finding on DA:


by caiterhe

[coldwetn0se]

@Ren - beautiful picture.

@aldy - OMG, it has finally happened! I disagree with you......HA! I do get how some would feel that with a VO for the PC, the game turns into something akin to an interactive movie. I get this since that was exactly how I felt about me3. However, I did feel that I could RP my Shepards in the first two games (and they too have a VO). The difference to me was attributing emotion/reaction (MY choice for that) to my Shepards, that I was able to carry over in ME1 to ME2, but lost that in me3. So as you can imagine, I really don't have a problem RPing characters that have a VO. I also happen to like M!Hawke's voice. Especially Aggro/Direct. The fact is, I really do like silent AND voiced. I see pros and cons with both, but they can both work great. Trust me, if I didn't feel like I could RP my Hawkes, this would have been a single run game for me, at best. (for example: never even finished a single play through of me3).

BTW, this is not knocking anyone who feels differently about me3. I know some people who had no problem RPing their Shepards, and others weren't bothered by the RP elements anyway. I say good for them; nice when people get their moneys worth. I just didn't have the same experience.

Okay, enough about that. I need some Fenris lovin'! I have the day off (sort of), and I want to get Castor into MotA now. Bummer thing is, I got struck with the Exiled Prince glitching. The quest Faith crashes the game...bah! I am such a completionist; I hate having to leave something unfinished. Not to mention, I was doing something specific with Sebastian storywise. Ah-well.

[Ghost_Nappa]

Ask and ye shall reecieve! Good ol Ixinc

[Ghost_Nappa]

Or perhaps something tamer?

[Enkidu]

Aldien, can't really say much more aside from what I've already stated and what was said by Coldy, since she relays my thoughts, basically. There’s a lovely bizarre saying that goes "Every pencil is coloured and tastes differently" XDD I think the wheel/VO case is this, since there's no concrete consensus even on such important things as "how it affect role-playing".

I actually had a different reaction. Loved the male voice, always had a soft spot for Nicholas Boulton, while lady Wyatt took some getting used too. She just sounded too posh and high-pitched sometimes and I disliked her delivery of certain lines, but I think I either tune it out now or have learned to appreciate the voice on its own merits.

Meh, I dunno, I'm just happy to get that much choice at all. Races and origins were rad, I had great fun writing with those, but I had just as much fun writing Hawkes. Same for all ME games, really. Nothing really got in my way in any of those cases; all the PCs are completely different. I guess I'm like a starving hobo binging on steaks. Who cares if the sauce is spicy this time and they didn't give a side dish, it's still steak! Enjoy all the things when you can and all that. But I still get why you might be displeased with certain choices on the dev's part. But, y'know, pencils and all that.

Aptil, if I had that power, I would totally take away all the things, because PANCAKES, my lady, are worth more than fans. They're certainly tastier.

Coldy, you read my mind, is that it? That's it, isn't it!? I'm onto you, you know! You just try agreeing with me know when I have this tinfoil hat on! Ha! How do you like that!?

Ghost, aww, yeah, that hits the spot. Just what we needed here.
Hawke! A vagrant is especially superb, if only because of the source material.

[Amirit]

The sad thing is - our opinions and preferences will change nothing. I know, I came here to cry as much as you do. Sharing frustration is a big part of gaming

To make it a bit lighter - read this http://www.gamesrada...-do-to-a-gamer/

Total offtopic found by following a link from here (an important and offensive topic http://social.biowar...216567#14239055 )

[coldwetn0se]

@Ghost - a tin of Pirouttes for the lady!! Fen smut; it does a dirty mind good....

@flippy - hehehe....look! We have matching "hats".

@Amirit - There, there my dear.....let me make you some nice herbal tea. Biscuit?

[CuriousArtemis]

AbsoluteApril wrote...

Faerunner wrote...
They're going to get rid of the all-LIs-available-to-all-genders?

nothing confirmed yet - Gaider posted this recently in regards to one of the many 'all LIs bi' threads
"at we're doing for DA3, romance-wise, is yet to be announced. It probably won't be for some time yet."

http://social.biowar.../index/14244998

OMG ... my heart will seriously break if they do get rid of them. I don't even know what I would have done if Fenris had been only available to girls! Well, I do know, I mean, I never would have bought the game. Only reason I went out and bought it is because my bro-in-law had it, and he started romancing Isabela with his FemHawke, and we figured out you could romance the guys with BroHawke's. I flipped my sh!t, saved up, and bought it along with my first xbox xD